Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

There are homes out there fit for occupation. Its just this bloody bedroom tax makes then less affordable.

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

Not enough houses vs too many immigrants. Take your choice.:rolleyes:

We can't keep concreting over the South East just to keep pace with the uncontrolled population growth.

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

We could do with not allowing non dom investors buying up housing stock at silly prices and refusing to rent it out..

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

No! No! No! We clearly need hundreds of thousands more people turning up here every year just to ensure that we can run the NHS, staff our care homes, pay for our pensions, man all those car washes, etc. etc. In no way do/will any of them add to the problems they've so thoughtfully come here to solve by growing old, getting ill, needing schools/housing, receiving benefits, requiring pensions, emitting carbon... No, when the time comes and having given their best years to the UK and selflessly put a great deal more in than they've taken out, we can rest assured they'll all go back home thereby never becoming a burden on UK PLC themselves...
:rolleyes:

There clearly is a point beyond which population growth will stifle the UK so do we wait for the country to grind to a halt before we act to control immigration etc. or do we make the decisions whilst we can reasonably accommodate and support the needs of the population we have whilst maintaining our quality of life? Right now very few people seem willing to even accept the basic premise let alone try to get to grips with it before it's too late.

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

Immigration may contribute to housing but it's no where near as clear cut as that. They've even been blamed for falling house prices.

https://fullfact.org/factchecks/immi...e_prices-28673
http://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/top-ten/8-housing

We're getting to the point where irrespective of the story immigrations are the cause of it. Even contradictory problems.

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

When did rent levels determine whether somebody is eligible for Housing Benefit? It is income and savings that determine it.:rolleyes:

It is cases like a couple coming over here from the Czech Republic with their TWENTY TWO children(some adult) and grandchildren and more kids born since then, living in various houses and with only ONE person working, that ups the number of people claiming HB.

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

If you looked at it in the way that every house occupied by an immigrant means one less house which makes a homeless person.

not mentioning the costs accumulating to the immigrant progressively.

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

Now come on, you know that never happens and even if it does it makes no difference... :D

Anyway, it doesn't matter where these people come from - whether via migration or birth rates, the argument that we must have continued and significant population growth to keep us going is as much nonsense on a national level as it is on a global level. If anything, the problem is too many people living too long.

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

We should offer incentives and a pill.

same with new borns.

and the inbetweens.

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

I don't understand. Why are the lefties moaning about the Tories giving housing benefit to more people? :confused:

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

It was only the other week that some crap was floating on our NHS computers screen saver that only 1% of the British population are none white

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

Just to make sure that NHS emloyees are PC'd to up the hilt :D

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

That's the trouble with that kind of thing.
when you know it's a definately lie. you can safely assume that all and any future ones are lies too.

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

:rofl:

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

Exactly! If they were reducing the spend on housing benefit then the lefties would be moaning about that. Can't please some people :(

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

Just goes to show what a bunch of hypocrites and chancers they are.

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

The Lefties realise that much of that Housing Benefit ends up in the pockets of landlords. Landlords that support Right wing policies and politicians.

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

Is anyone actually complaining about increased benefits? The way I have read the report and the complaint is the lack of affordable housing. I don't think any of them want housing benefit to be cut and the people receiving it made homeless.

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

If thats the case then the articles headline should be changed to reflect that instead of saying:
"Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition "
:shrug:

---------- Post added at 14:38 ---------- Previous post was at 14:34 ----------

I suppose that we could ban buy to let mortgages. That would stop a lot of landlords being able to buy houses to rent out.
Of course, that would stop a lot of property sales, for lack of buyers. That would mean that many owners would become accidental landlords.

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

IIRC Flyboy was a landlord and didn't support the Tories. ;)

He was odd though... :)

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

Increasing the housing supply is the best way to fix this imo. We're not building enough homes and all Government policy thus far seems to be geared towards maintaining the market as it is but using Government money to get more people onto the flyaway train. Either though help to buy, the new homes discount or whatever else they're cooking up.

All of them are ultimately the Government subsiding the rise in house prices by ensuring the demand is there. If they increased house building and got rid of the subsides then the housing benefit may be reduced. However that would be either because house prices have stopped increasing or even fallen.

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

I agree that building more houses is the answer (or stop letting in so many people would help as well)
Trouble is that everyone wants to live in the south east and we have got far too many here as it is hence the high prices and groaning infrastructure.

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

Yeah we need to do better in promoting investment and business in the North. I think London & the South East would be helped if we didn't have every new development being taken up by luxury apartments marketed as investments to wealthy investors from abroad. I could understand Westminster and Hyde Park getting luxury developments but Stratford? Hackney? East London? It's getting insane.

Maybe London needs to have more powers devolved so it can concentrate on it's unique problems and allow Parliament to address the wider country. That said I don't have confidence in London's governance to assume they won't want to continue things as they are anyway.

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

They are moaning because the HB bill is going up despite more people being in work(according to government figures) which means that wages have dropped and more people are on lower wages putting them into the 'in work benefits' bracket ,which to be quite honest is absolutely shameful. If people can't work and earn enough to support themselves without relying on state benefits then something is very wrong.

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

So even "hard working people" claim benefits.

and some of them seem to forget that fact.

some of them claim more benefits than somebody that doesn't work.

and they seem to forget that too.

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

Indeed , Labour has a lot to answer for .

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

I know.
but they'll be back in soon to sort it all out, Marty.

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

I thought the purple one was going to win and then fix the country before dinner :)

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

InBecause the Government have allowed rents to rise so much that 25% of private tenants are now on Housing Benefit. This costs the taxpayer more as it has meant that, despite their cuts, the Housing Benefit bill has ballooned under the coalition.

The main beneficiaries of this situation are the people that Taf has outlined below:

Indeed. So, if you think about it, who is it that is REALLY sponging off the taxpayer?

This and the fact that rents have been allowed to spiral out of control. As a resukt, many people who managed without Housing Benefit are now eligible to claim.

True. In fact much, much more is paid out in benefits to those in work than out if work.

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

My god this shows up the coalition and it's bs recovery myth and extra jobs and we get people coming straight on with the "it's the immigrants" what a pathetic bunch of sheep the British public have turned into and ironically many of the sheep purport to be lions roflmao. The blame here lies where the blame for the majority of the nations problems lie at the feet of our political class who are unable to do a damn thing longterm as their focus is the next general election and perpetually blame the past for current mistakes and not only do we let them we join this ridiculous game with them. No matter which colour you vote for under the current system nothing will change because as long as they get their snouts back in the trough they couldn't give a monkeys for us after voting is finished.

I grew up believing that a job meant self sustainability and a man or woman could hold their head high knowing they were doing right but now for convenience one minute your supposed to be proud to work and on the other ashamed of taking benefit which one is it because my head has spun off it's axis I'd ask IDS but he cant work it out either.

Oh for a lottery win so I could get out of this increasing madhouse :(.

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

You do realise that rents in the private sector for the purposes of housing benefit are restricted to predetermined levels so it doesn't matter how much the landlord puts up the rent those on HB simply won't get the money to pay the rent

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

Fall behind with your rent and get evicted a lot easier thanks to this coalition and the changes they made great way to do things aren't you proud to be british these days

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

Lets start with a gov crackdown on people claiming with 20 kids. while these might be the minority them 20 or so kids will follow the parents lifestyle of a benefits culture have a load of kids of their own.

they will all no doubt want a house where does it stop

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

That's correct. Even with the restrictions to what the regulations refer to as the 'Maximum Eligible Rent' (Not always the same as the actual rent paid) and the 'Benefits Cap' the Housing Benefit bill has ballooned; whilst at the same time many are forced to pay any shortfall from their wages, benefits etc that is meant for other day to day living expenses.

---------- Post added at 18:27 ---------- Previous post was at 18:21 ----------

I agree, this is just irresponsible to the point of immorality. There aren't as many families like this as the media would have us believe, but nevertheless, in my opinion, it is unacceptable behaviour. As an advisor (one of many) to the Government on their welfare reforms it was repeatedly suggested that limits were placed on the number of dependents that a claimant could be paid assistance for. Instead they chose to go for an overall benefits cap- if they tories win the next election it is widely speculated that benefits (including Child Benefit) will be restricted in addition to a lower Benefits Cap (which always affects any Housing Benefit in payment first).

---------- Post added at 19:14 ---------- Previous post was at 18:27 ----------

Rent levels are a crucial part of any Housing Benefit determination. No claim could be processed without it as it is essential.

What many EU migrants do to get round the legislation that prevents them from claiming Jobseekers Allowance (they can no longer claim it straight away as they are, quite rightly, expected to work for a living) is to claim in work benefits instead.

They will say that they are a "self employed scrap metal dealer" for 16 hours a week. It doesn't matter if they don't find or make any money from scrap metal, they are classed as working for 16 hours or more a week and can claim Child Benefit, Housing Benefit, Council Tax Reduction, Child Tax Credit and Working Tax Credits- even if their children still live abroad.

Similar "jobs" are: selling the Big Issue, collecting used clothing to sell, being a professional ebay/Amazon seller etc. If they do actually make any money, as it's all done by cash, it is easy to massage the figures so that their means tested benefits aren't affected in any one benefit week.

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

No one is, has or ever will support or agree with irresponsible idiots who knock babies out like a production line I've said in the past it shouldn't be allowed and perhaps it is time zero money was paid to those replaced by direct payment to utilities and vouchers requiring photo ID so they can't be sold on. Cracking down on benefits in a general way to hit a tiny minority is not the right way to do things and in a country that use's the "one innocent possibly" to maintain no death penalty it is even more wrong. Reform of a lot of things is needed and badly needed but proper reform not just headline grabbing slights of hand, we need to build more houses we've known this for quite a while but we don't because they are scared of an electoral backlash for lowering house prices. We need people with a genuine depth of the common good to start dealing with these issue's not the career five years at a time opportunist we have now.

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

True

---------- Post added at 19:40 ---------- Previous post was at 19:38 ----------

So if you had a flat that you were letting out and your tennant fell behind in their rent, you would be ok with that?:confused:

---------- Post added at 19:43 ---------- Previous post was at 19:40 ----------

How has the govt allowed rents to rise?

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

Eligibility for Housing Benefit whilst employed does NOT RELY on the rent levels. It is assessed against income using something called the "Applicable Amount". Those amounts are set at benefits levels and therefore many who are earning even more than that can be eligible.
List of applicable amounts for 2015/16.
Eg Single claimant aged not less than 25 £72.40
4 kids would add 4x£66.33=£265.32


From DWP report of 2009(ie under LABOUR).
The local housing allowance rates set by LABOUR were too generous and have dropped(50% down to 30%) dramatically. That drop(and other policies) couldn't happen overnight in 2010 and would therefore have taken time to see any effect.

A major reason for the increase in numbers is due to moving from home ownership, where HB is NOT payable, to renting, where it is. Graphs in a report show that the rate of increases in HB expenditure and employed claimants are roughly the SAME as in 2008, ie UNDER LABOUR. The 2008/09 to 2009/10 figures show a big rise in HB expenditure. Who was to blame for that? The %age of employed claimants rose from 11% to around 15% between November 2008 and mid 2010. Who was to blame for that? Take a wild guess.https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2015/03/13.gif

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

More people are in work and claiming housing benefit than are out of work and claiming it, makes the situation even more shameful imo

---------- Post added at 20:30 ---------- Previous post was at 20:29 ----------

Beautiful line about who the real spongers are :tu:

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

Did you read the previous post to yours? The trends in increases started UNDER LABOUR.

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

Saw one earlier, seven kids, 60k in benefits and totally unaffected by the cuts due to one of them managing to hold a job down for twenty hours a week, that's the kicker, the very people imo who should be being hit hardest carrying on regardless

---------- Post added at 20:36 ---------- Previous post was at 20:33 ----------

Why you shouting, makes you look like a lunatic, think I give a toss who it started under think again, their all donkeys with a different coloured sticker on and why hasn't it been stopped by the torys then if party politics is your thing

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

Because that and MANY other LIES are forever being perpetuated. That is what I am against more than which party is responsible.

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

That'll be the difference between us then, I'd rather the situation was rectified for the benefit of all concerned, you'd rather shout about lies and play the blame game, you ever thought about a career in politics.

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

At least I point out facts that are proven.

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

That's the least any considerate poster would do, most don't feel the need to shout about it or highlight it in bold though.

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

doesn't make it any less of a problem nor any less shamefull

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

The Tories/Liberal Democrats have been in office 5 years now. Time is running out on giving them a free pass because of problems that started under Labour.

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

And what should/can be done about a move from home ownership to renting?

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

Increasing the supply so that the demand doesn't make home ownership unaffordable and put upward pressure on rent prices. This Government has been the same as the last Government in implementing policies designed to send house prices ever upwards.

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

Home ownership was already unaffordable. People took a chance to make easy money by getting on the "housing ladder". Rent levels DO NOT affect the number of housing benefit claimants.

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

Well they can by making more people unable to afford their rent. Also home ownership wasn't always unaffordable. It may never have been easy but it wasn't unaffordable. If you saved, budgeted, and worked then most could afford it. Now house prices are increasing far quicker than inflation or wages pricing more and more people out of the market. The amount of people for whom home ownership is now simply impossible, not simply difficult, is rising rather than falling.

This was Labour's fault. It is now also the Conservatives/Liberals fault too. The difference is that last lot were voted out five years ago as voters lost confidence in them and now the reasonability for Governance and the issues we face is at the door of the current lot.

If people lose confidence in them then they'll be voted out too.

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

Being able to afford the rent has NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO with eligibility for Housing Benefit. When are people finally going to get that FACT.

As you said in the past people budgeted and saved. They no longer want to do that. Where did they live while they budgeted and saved for a deposit?

The situation started at least 2 years BEFORE 2011, eg 2008. As the report states, the situation seems to be improving.

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

I disagree. The tories inherited the mess left by labour and a recession. It's going to take more than 5 years to dig us out from that pile of poo.

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

The Tories removed rent controls. This means that any landlord can charge whatever any tenant is willing (or has) to pay to secure a home.

By 'rent levels' I assumed that you meant the contractual rent, as opposed to the LRR or LHA. The contractual rent is still needed, indeed the software that is used won't assess a claim without it!

But the present Government said that they would be turning this around and reducing expenditure on benefits (including Housing Benefit). Instead they have managed to cause suffering to many vulnerable people AND increase the benefits bill AND are borrowing more money to pay for it. They are borrowing more in total than Labour and the actual portion of government debt apportioned to 'the defecit' has decreased mainly as a result of lower interest rates.

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

Labour will probably be in for 10 years starting May. surely that will be long enough.

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

The rent could be just £1/week and somebody could still NOT be eligible for Housing Benefit. The AMOUNT of rent has NO bearing on whether a claim is successful or not. Rents could double overnight and the number of people eligible to claim would NOT CHANGE. As far as Housing benefits are concerned, limits WERE imposed by Rent Officers.

Housing Benefits costs ARE GOING down.
Should all public borrowing have been stopped?:shocked:
People complain enough about "austerity". Just imagine the cuts required to have zero borrowing. Public spending budgets for 2010/11 Would have been set by March 2010, ie UNDER LABOUR.

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

I'm not interested in the political side of this debate, just facts and figures.

Housing Benefit expenditure has increased under this Government:

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2...eople-claiming

The actual amount of rent must be used when determining a HB claim. The actual amount of rents for properties is also relevant in deciding average rents etc as the Rent Officer and HB staff use this data for benefit restriction purposes.

My mention that Government borrowing has increased overall under this coalition was to counter the illusion that this Government likes to make regarding their borrowing and debt repayment records- this ties in with their false claim that, despite cuts that have hurt many people, the benefits bill has risen. They have failed on these electoral promises.

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

That's an interesting way of looking at the world but the reality is that a landlord can only charge the market rate for the given location & quality of premises.
If the landlord charges much more than that he/she will find that they have no takers for their accommodation and it is left un-tenanted......costing them money every month.
If you look at rent levels, property purchase costs, tax & mortgage costs etc, you will find that there is very little wriggle room when it comes to what rent a landlord charges and their profit at the end of the month.
As landlords, we don't just think of a figure and charge it. We wouldn't stay in business very long :D

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

This was the ideology behind the Tory idea to remove rent controls ie the market will decide.

The problem is that they then went back on their initial promise that they would even be prepared to let the HB bill increase if (when) rents levels increased.

Slowly but surely, using various methods such as restricting the maximum amount payable to "a reasonable market rent" decided by the Rent Officer, the use of Local References Rents etc, the amount of HB for privately rented properties has been eroded.

This means that tenants either have to renegotiate a lower rent with the landlord or pay the shortfall out of monies intended for day to day living expenses and pushing them below the poverty line.

In reality, like you say, if landlords know that nobody else wants the accommodation or is willing to pay any more than HB will pay, then it's better to accept the lower rent than have it empty.

However, this often leaves benefit claimants with the dregs that nobody else wants.

The other problem is that if the market rents reach such a level beyond which HB will pay, you have what some regard as 'population cleansing' as people are forced out of certain areas.

Many Londoners who were born & bred there for generations (particularly those who find that they happen to be in an up and coming area) are being forced out by people who can afford the extortionate rents.

As this continues, there will be whole areas devoid of any poor people and whole areas where nothing but poverty exists.

I don't think that this is any good for society as a whole, particularly with all the hot air that polticians spout on about "The Big Society", " Social inclusion" etc.

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

but isn't the same true for those in employment?

My niece can't afford to rent in certain (quite a lot, actually) parts of London, and she has a reasonably paid job, so she has 40-50 minute tube journeys at the beginning and end of each day, but I don't hear anyone calling for support for people like her and her peer group....

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

That sentiment would have a great deal more credibility if Labour hadn't spent their entire 13 year term in office blaming the Major govt. and Thatcher's before it for everything under the sun. Comparing the state of the nation in 1997 to 2010 only serves to emphasise the point. Labour had it easier, had the time and the parliamentary majority to do whatever they wanted and they still cocked it up as they always do.

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

I think this is the issue a lot of people want addressed. People with reasonable to high salaries still can't afford to look at buying and now even renting.

---------- Post added at 18:53 ---------- Previous post was at 18:51 ----------

Well that was either wrong then and wrong now or if it's a valid argument now then it was a valid argument then.

Anyway it needs to be on a issue-by-issue basis. There is no sign that the current Government is serious about fixing the issues on housing and the schemes are designed to inflate the housing market further rather than address it.

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

I know which version is more wrong and least valid.

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

I am guessing people who don't like Labour think it wasn't valid then but does count now whereas people who don't like the Conservatives think it's valid now but was a legitimate excuse then.

Who is most to blame isn't really my concern. As I have mentioned earlier I think successive governments are to blame. It was a problem that occurred under Labour that they didn't fix, it's one the Tories/Liberals having fixed in the last 5 years and to be honest I think it's one that neither party will fixed over the next 5 years. None of them want to deflate the bubble which would be the likely consequence of addressing it. :shrug:

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

It's not about not liking Labour - the facts speak for themselves - 13 years in office with a majority as opposed to 5 in coalition picking up the pieces of the biggest bust for decades.

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

As I said I already believe Labour are also to blame.

It's what the coalition have done during those 5 years. It does take time for economic policies to have an impact but 5 years is still a good amount of time to have done something but house prices are still spiralling upwards. Their policies have been designed to keep them up by underwriting the demand with schemes such as right to buy.

My problem isn't Labour vs Tory here as I don't think either are going to do anything.

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

5 years is no time to put right 13 years of damage on the scale of what's was done under New Labour - gold sales, PFI, mass immigration, illegal wars to name a few. The fact that we have a coalition govt. hasn't helped matters because one side or the other has tended to block things which otherwise would have been done purely out of short term self interest and point scoring. I'm not saying any of these people are perfect or even worthy of a vote but it's clear which govt. has the most legitimate excuses. Right now things are improving unlike pretty much anywhere in Europe. If anyone thinks that would be the case had Brown won last time out they're Arthur. ;)

Things could certainly be better and mistakes have been made but I think it's unrealistic to expect any govt. to have all the answers which I why I've stated more than once that I'll be voting for the least worst option.

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

How is the market deciding anything when the playing field isn't level, the market has decided enough houses aren't being built but that's ignored

---------- Post added at 21:39 ---------- Previous post was at 21:35 ----------

The biggest bust since John majors one, you remember the one where people were posting keys to houses through banks letter boxes, politicians are all the same, different cheeks of the same arse

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

Rubbish, garbage and trash.

I bet they can fix it within another 5 years.
on the condition that you are gullible.

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

I remember going through 17 years of damage by the blue nose brigade back in the late 1970s and 1980s and 1990s. Why did British Banks fund in the American Housing market when they should have been funding here to build houses?... Then BANG it all went tits up in Yank land (2000s) and our greedy Banks were in the dog poo... so the British Tax payers had to bail them out which is still ongoing!

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

18+13+5= 36 years where sadly politicians have sadly put their own narrow political interests first rather then govern for the betterment of the country.

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

You're right and this is one of the reasons why 25% of private tenants are now in receipt of Housing Benefit. At one time many of these people wouldn't have needed or qualified for assistance.

HB restrictions coupled with rent inflation does affect working people and unemployed people alike.

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

How many more times.:mad: Eligibility for HB DOES NOT DEPEND on rent levels. Rents could could go up ten fold overnight and NO MORE people would be eligible.

The rate of increase in HB costs and number of employed claimants was pretty much the SAME before 2010 as after. Indeed the LABOUR government admitted in 2009 that a sharp rise in HB costs in 2008 was due to THEIR policies.

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

You keep banging on about rent inflation but do you realise that private sector rents only went up by 1% in England last year,1.4% in Scotland and only 0.2 in Wales .Rent inflation isn't really a problem for most renters ,low wage levels are

http://www.theguardian.com/money/201...ents-rise-year

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

........and? So what? Are you honestly suggesting that people on benefits should expect to live in the same quality housing (ie. location/build quality/same quality mod cons) as someone who is self funding and actually paying their way? Where is the incentive to work harder/get training etc & how is that fair on people who earn a 'decent' wage?
(Excluding the disabled, who we should bend over backwards for)
Oh please.

---------- Post added at 20:39 ---------- Previous post was at 20:27 ----------

:clap:
Needed saying :)

---------- Post added at 20:48 ---------- Previous post was at 20:39 ----------

Thats not being ignored, we all acknowledge that more houses need to be built, price bubbles aren't good etc...but the fact (that you ignored in my post) remains: Private rents are very closely alligned to the other rents being charged in an area which in turn are spookily closely aligned to house prices, mortgage rates, tax rates etc. It's almost as if rents are dictated by external financial forces, not simply landlords whims :dozey:

---------- Post added at 20:50 ---------- Previous post was at 20:48 ----------

Much like your post :D

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

Lol what can anyone here do about it? It's being ignored by everyone who can do something about it

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

What can be done is that our left wing bretheren can start to realise that rents aren't being set by (evil) landlords, just market forces :dozey:
Then we can all begin to address the causes of the problem rather than just watch socialists engage in erronious rabble rousing

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

But they're not set by the market because the market is being manipulated if it was genuinely being set by the market we'd see houses being built to satisfy the demand

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

You are seeing a conspiracy where there is simply ineptitude.

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

You seem to be forgetting things like planning permission, lack of finance, lack of skilled trades persons, lack of raw materials, inertia, NIMBYism etc. There are any number of reasons that house building doesn't go ballistic.

Perhaps the most unmentionable is just like the argument against new roads: cars will come to drive on them. Build more houses and people will flock from everywhere to fill them.

What we really need to do is to use the existing stock more efficiently. Time was when several generations lived in a single small property. Now we have singles living in multibedroomed properties. Something the so called "bedroom tax" was bought in to try and solve.

Of course if we had a fully Soviet Stallinist government and all housing was owned by the state then people would be forced to move to properties deemed sufficient for their needs and also forced to share with others if there were spare bedrooms. Problem solved. ;)

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

Too true. So far as I can see, aside from making better use of what we have, the most logical way to tackle this problem (and many others) is to build more homes of the type really needed but control population growth, especially that due to mass immigration which brings with it sudden and large scale demands for homes, services, infrastructure etc. The alternative is for more of the UK to be built upon with all of the irreversible detrimental effects that will have on our way of life and environment.

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

Council rent here has just risen by 3.8% :(

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

He was referring to Private Sector rents, not your local Labour Council.....

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

Get bent, how often to people still come out with " it's all Thatchers fault". 25 years after she's gone.

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

:confused:

So? First of all I don't do that so I don't see why I should 'get bent'. Secondly they're also wrong or at least misguided since anything that was Thatcher's fault was subsequently had time to be rectified.

That defence is nothing more than the "But Mum! They do it too!". Two wrongs don't make a right and, contrary to belief on here, there is not a 'red' team and a 'blue' team who are reasonable for everyone else that they vaguely share a spectrum with.

People have to come up with a better defence than trying to find someone else who has also done it. It's meritless.

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

Probably 'cos you came out with such a stupid comment. :D
As has already been said here. The Tories inherited a total clusterf*ck left by the last lot on top of a financial depression. 5 years isn't long enough to undo all that. Especially in a coilition with the other bunch of numpties.

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

I forgot nothing even in spite of a couple of the things on your list being erroneous, two of the biggest hurdles to house building aren't even on your list, house builders having gotten used to making 20% on the cost of a house and councils like Kensington and westminster not only not enforcing house builders legal obligation to provide a certain amount of social housing according to the numbers of houses they build but they've actively encouraged them not to build any.

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

What's wrong with that?lol, social housing alongside 'normal' new builds........if the experience in Woolwich is anything to go by, that approach simply provides a certion sub section of society with easy access to cars and houses that can be broken into. :D

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

Actually it works well and has done for years, because ,shock horror ,not everyone in social housing is an anti social scrote ,the same as everyone in private housing isn't a drug dealer.The idea that a section of society should be removed from another section of society and housed in different areas is as antiquated as it is pompous

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

Never said that it is always the case. Simply pointing out that it sometimes doesn't work and that council/govt led brute force social engineering possibly isn't the best way forward.
....and are you saying that this approach doesn't provide a certain sub section of society with easy access to cars and houses that can be broken into?

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

That's exactly what I am saying because the idea that that is the case is simply ridiculous .My street is a council street everyone on that street rents from the council and as far as I know everyone works ,there are nicely decorated houses with big tellies and 4x4's on the drive ,I myself have a 25 grand van on my drive ,I'll tell you now we are as much at risk of burglary as anyone in a private estate .The attitude that council tenants and private home owners should not mix belongs in dark ages

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

What's wrong with that, you not been paying attention or something, thought you were keen on the market deciding, seems like you're only keen on it if it's being manipulated.

It doesn't matter what the experience is, it's the law, funny how you seem happy for some to break the law but not others

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

Pointless debate really because no politician will ever get involved in building enough houses to resolve the issue because that would cause our ridiculously inflated house bubble to explode and they don't want the electoral backlash from that. Far easier to pass the problem on to the next lot who will do the same and at some point they will have to do something either build and bubble explodes or home ownership becomes the preserve of the wealthy.

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

You could double the amount of housing overnight and there still would be homeless and a demand for more housing. There are the various invasions and everybody here would each want their own large house.

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

What? I honestly don't know what you are talking about. I'm not being difficult, or trying to score points, I really have no idea. :confused:

---------- Post added at 22:20 ---------- Previous post was at 22:16 ----------

You would be .
Your description has nothing in common with what I'm describing in Woolwich. :shrug:
My god, you really are that obtuse, I'll spell it out for you:
In Woolwich, developers were forced to build social housing next door to the luxury flats and houses that they wanted to build as a condition of getting planning approval. Woolwich is a toilet, with a 'challenging' mix of people living there. The more 'challenging' ones were obviously housed in the social housing new builds and since they were confronted with 'wealth inequality' decided to 'redistribute' some of that unequal wealth that they could see across the road.(and still are/do). This obviously doesn't apply to your, seemingly comfortable, social housing area but it is of real concern to (off the top of my head, I'll recount a story) a female who moved from Devon, to teach in a school in SE London, rent a flat in Woolwich online and then was confronted with the reality of living across the road from certain sub sections of society (who would look at your 25k van with interest as well).



(and I'd question why you are in a council house if you're in that comfortable financial situation :confused: )

---------- Post added at 22:21 ---------- Previous post was at 22:20 ----------

So nice and steady housebuilding does it? :)

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

Come on you're a smart guy, it's not that complicated, if a house builder is demanding a minimum of 20% profit before they'll build a house they are artificially inflating the price of the houses they do eventually build as they're not building as many and you were saying that you think it's ok for westminster council to break the law by not enforcing housebuilders legal obligations to provide a certain percentage of social housing because they might end up being occupied by a neer-do-well, completely ignoring the fact it's more likely to be occupied by someone like a very good friend of both of ours.

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

You've taken one issue in a small part of the country and applied it to the rest of the country .Before house builders where forced to build social and private housing together there was that problem and there will continue to be that problem ,I live on what used to be the roughest estate in Newcastle ,it still has it's problem tenants as every area has, who no doubt would walk the 1/4 mile across the fields to the new mixed estate being built by the river to rob people they perceive as being rich,in short segregating social classes will not stop burglaries and problem tenants ,all it does is perpetuate an outdated class system

Why,
I rather think you are making a very large assumption and it's betraying your rather pompous attitude towards social housing tenants

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

Ah, got it. Ta :)
Damn right developers want a minimum of 20% profit as (iirc) once they sell the property they are liable to capital gains tax at 28 or 29%.
Factor that onto build costs, land costs, wages , commercial loan costs (both servicing the loan & setting it up) and then the uncertainty of future house sales prices and you would want 20% as well!

---------- Post added at 16:21 ---------- Previous post was at 16:17 ----------

No, I'm simply giving Woolwich as an example of what can go wrong. I haven't (iirc) extrapolated that to the rest of the country.


No, I'm simply asking why, if you can afford a more expensive vehicle than I can, you are living in a council house and I'm not? Surely you should be in a private dwelling, freeing up council housing for those less fortunate/well off than yourself? :confused:

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

Woolwich didn't go wrong **** bags will be **** bags regardless of who they live next to .Segregating people depending on social status does not stop or alter crime in any way


Your making assumptions again.Who said the van was mine? ,it's a lease van I use for work.Even if the van was mine why should I be forced to live in a private dwelling with no security and sub standard quality or even worse attempt to take out a mortgage at my age in a financial climate virtually guaranteed to fail again before it's paid .
I have never had a desire to have a mortgage and never will given the worry and stress it causes people

Re: Oooh, look. Half a million more people claiming housing benefit under coalition.
 

We'll have to agree to disagree :)




imo, if a person can afford to rent privately or have a mortgage then they should because that frees up council housing which can be allocated to those in real need.