BT to buy EE - impact on VMobile?
 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...-for-12bn.html

VM are an EE MVNO. Wonder if this will have any impact on that?

Re: BT to buy EE - impact on VMobile?
 

It would seem its competitors may plot some regulatory backlash according to this article on the BBC website.

Re: BT to buy EE - impact on VMobile?
 

It would hurt VM Business however relatively trivial to divest themselves of the spectrum their small mobile venture has and they can, of course, run EE in a similar fashion to their existing Retail business.

Re: BT to buy EE - impact on VMobile?
 

I'm quite surprised none of our 'connected' members knew this was coming (unless of course they did but were "sworn to secrecy"), not sure I trust BT to run a mobile network seeing as they bought out of one over 10 years ago. Still they will be able to offer a fixed line too so let's see how it goes.

Re: BT to buy EE - impact on VMobile?
 

So now we have BEET, I wonder what Three are going to do - they were talking about buying O2, which would be an interesting change in the mobile landscape.

Then if Vodafone buys Virgin...

Re: BT to buy EE - impact on VMobile?
 

I don't think this will have any bearing on VM Mobile

VM will only be using the EE/ BT RAN. No different really to all the fixed line companies that use BT's copper access network.

Vodafone can't buy "Virgin" they would have to buy Liberty Global, which they have already said doesn't fit in with their plans because there are a lot of Liberty companies in countries where vodafone have no interests.

Re: BT to buy EE - impact on VMobile?
 

Well they've certainly been contemplating it and something like BTEE could change their minds on the matter.

Re: BT to buy EE - impact on VMobile?
 

Bah! I still wouldn't use them however big they become..

Re: BT to buy EE - impact on VMobile?
 

Short term, no. Virgin Mobile pay their fees to EE and get their services as per whatever terms of the contract the two companies have. But of course if Vodafone do buy Liberty, it will be buy buy Virgin Mobile. Perhaps someone like Talktalk might take over Virgin Mobile if it were up for sale.

As I said on the "Vodafone Media" thread, we'll end up with three or four media/telecoms companies each having a mobile and fixed line phone services, tv and broadband as well as other media assets.

---------- Post added at 23:26 ---------- Previous post was at 23:20 ----------

I wouldn't read too much into that. They can say one thing one moment and change their tune the next.

Vodafone has said they want to launch tv services next year. The Germans are waving the regulatory stick over ownership of cablecos in Germany. So, Vodafone may look to buy Liberty and widen their remit from mainly being a mobile operator to a quad play media/telecoms company.

---------- Post added at 23:34 ---------- Previous post was at 23:26 ----------

I've been saying for a while that I think BT will buy ITV, so if it happens, you know where you read it first.:)

But its no secret that BT wanted back into mobile, the only reason it got rid of O2 to begin with was debt. Talking of which.... BT going to war with Sky over football rights won't be good for their long term cash reserves. There you go, another thing you seen first here! And of course all the "experts" are saying buy BT shares....which is the biggest red flag there is.

Re: BT to buy EE - impact on VMobile?
 

Most of the market didn't see this coming but the confirmation of BT's EE MVNO service moving to the next stage a couple days ago hinted at it.

---------- Post added at 23:45 ---------- Previous post was at 23:44 ----------

That RAN is backhauled by VM though, and BT won't like that. They're still bitter about the loss of those contracts to VM in the first place, but once they own the mobile network that chose VM over them... Hmm.

I wonder if the regulators will make them give up a portion of the 2.6Ghz spectrum, now that the combined company will own two-thirds of the total 2.6Ghz band

Re: BT to buy EE - impact on VMobile?
 

I doubt there is anything BT can do though, is there?? Unless there's some break clause in the contract which says that if EE comes under different ownership then all contracts can be renegotiated, but I doubt it. I wonder how BT and VM will get on....?:)

Not sure, but could the freeing up of Freeview spectrum to mobile services alter things?

Re: BT to buy EE - impact on VMobile?
 

Virgin Mobile is a sizeable virtual mobile operator so I'm sure BT will be keen to retain its custom. As has been suggested elsewhere, Vodafone could end up buying some or all of Liberty Global including Virgin Media.

Re: BT to buy EE - impact on VMobile?
 

You may have misunderstood the point he was making.

Virgin Media provide backhaul capacity (fibre lines) for EE. It's nothing to do with Virgin Mobile. And he was saying that BT bid against VM and lost the contract to provide that backhaul capacity to EE. But if BT take over EE, BT may look at that backhaul contract in "unfavourable" terms and may wish to ditch VM.

Re: BT to buy EE - impact on VMobile?
 

Misread it but I agree that BT would want to bring those in-house. Maybe there would be a break clause if the supplier (VM) changed owners; very unlikely the other way round.

Re: BT to buy EE - impact on VMobile?
 

Good point - in the past it's been mooted several times to place restrictions on networks with already high spectrum holdings when handing out future spectrum.

They could possibly be forced to give up 2600 in exchange for equal bidding rights on future 700, given that EE has the least 800 and no 900, they will desperately want it.

Re: BT to buy EE - impact on VMobile?
 

Well, if first means over a month after Morgan Stanley downgraded BT due to precisely that issue.

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/m...ck-rating.html

;)

---------- Post added at 08:49 ---------- Previous post was at 08:48 ----------

Vodafone could certainly buy LGI and then put the bits they don't want up for sale, or they could offer LGI a shedload of cash in return for parting with their new baby.

If rumours are to be believed they have already bid.

Re: BT to buy EE - impact on VMobile?
 

and VM installed a brand new purpose built network off the back of the project.

If BT wanted to take it back, which they probably could in time, I'm pretty sure they would have to invest in such a network to handle it.

Anyway, again, this is not a done deal...yet

---------- Post added at 08:57 ---------- Previous post was at 08:53 ----------

Not so much rumours, but "rumour".

Lke I say, it wouldn't suprise me, but I don't see what the attraction is for Liberty, unless Vodafone are going to pay loads a dosh for it.

Re: BT to buy EE - impact on VMobile?
 

There is nothing coming out of the bigger investment houses and the share price doesn't indicate that something is going on?

Re: BT to buy EE - impact on VMobile?
 

If the share price indicated there was something going on that something going on would be insider trading.

Re: BT to buy EE - impact on VMobile?
 

Eh, it's called speculation, you see a news story and take a gamble on it becoming a reality as more people gamble, the share price goes up. It's generally a good indicator.

When noise started happening re Vodafone and Liberty last month, Liberty shares went up by about 5 dollars I think, they have now dropped a couple of dollars

Re: BT to buy EE - impact on VMobile?
 

Speculation already priced in, then.

Re: BT to buy EE - impact on VMobile?
 

Morgan Stanley? Never heard of them.;)

---------- Post added at 08:49 ---------- Previous post was at 08:48 ----------

If an actual bid were to happen, it would have to be disclosed to the market. Perhaps they're talking on the sidelines but anything serious and they would have to announce it.

If I were a Vodafone shareholder, the first question I would ask in regards to VM, is why would Vodafone be interested in a network that only covers 50% of the country? The next question I would ask is why has VM's tv customer numbers been flat and so on.

I don't see a Vodafone/Liberty tie-up as a done deal by any stretch.

Re: BT to buy EE - impact on VMobile?
 

Do you see any other players in the market with bigger coverage? Last I knew the only other cable providers cover less than 10% of the country put together.

Re: BT to buy EE - impact on VMobile?
 

For a start a nice big, fat data network with a whole bunch of assets custom built for backhauling the EE network.

Next while the VM access network only covers ~45% of the population it's close to a lot more of the population so potentially for 'relatively' inexpensive expansion is good.

Vodafone bought Kabel Deutschland, who pass about 15.3 million premises in a country of over 40 million premises. Any complaint about VM's population coverage applies to a greater extent to that deal.

Re: BT to buy EE - impact on VMobile?
 

Nope.
I think in time, City Fibre, Hyperoptic et all will gain greater share, but it'll take a long time. So, yes the only real cable player is VM.

---------- Post added at 19:49 ---------- Previous post was at 19:39 ----------

I think if Vodafone were to actually put some real dosh into expanding the network, then yes for all intents and purposes, the cable network would reach the bulk of the population who live in towns and cities.

I am not disagreeing that the cable network isn't a great asset, it just needs to be in the right hands. I'm not entirely sure if Vodafone are the right hands, though. But at least they're getting experience in Germany with running cablecos.

One of VM's major weaknesses has been in business services. With a largely empty network during the day, they haven't exploited what they've got, so perhaps Vodafone could make use of this.

Re: BT to buy EE - impact on VMobile?
 

I don't trust BT at all!

Re: BT to buy EE - impact on VMobile?
 

I'm struggling to follow your point. Are you saying that because BT split into two companies (BT and MMO2) in 2002, BT won't be able to run EE? By buying EE, surely BT will have acquired all the expertise needed to run a mobile network successfully?

Re: BT to buy EE - impact on VMobile?
 

I will soon as possible br telling EE to "Go Forth and Multiply".

So they can be bought and asset striped and closed for all I care.

Re: BT to buy EE - impact on VMobile?
 

Not a chance. They'll be bought up long before that ever happens.

---------- Post added at 10:33 ---------- Previous post was at 09:48 ----------

Eh, that's the one backhaul contract likely to end the soonest if BT get their way, EE's deal was for another 5 years while O2 and 3 both use VM backhaul too and O2 have 9 years left on their 10-year contract.

Plus didn't Vodafone just buy up C&W exactly for the fat data network and how much would BT really want somebody who's going to become a major competitor in both the fixed and mobile space holding up their operations?

Re: BT to buy EE - impact on VMobile?
 

If their network can handle it. Let's not forget that the MBNL network was purpose built by VM to ensure it could handle current traffic volumes and was scaleable for LTE.

Also let's not forget that Three have a stake in MBNL too.

I'm not sure about the structure but I think it is MBNL that Virgin have a contract with not EE or 3?

Re: BT to buy EE - impact on VMobile?
 

BT's network is already handling it in the half of the country VM don't have a presence, and were the providers nationwide until VM won the contract a couple years ago, so I doubt they have a "handling it" problem.

MBNL - not too sure about either. They act as brokers and site managers in many cases as 3 and EE have gone their separate ways with 4G rollout. AUIU they're more and more in charge of just handling the "passive infrastructure" which in my mind entails masts, poles, cabling, and antennas, but some people seem to count backhaul as well.

However as I recall MBNL started off with an exclusive contract with BT for backhaul, before the networks started announcing individual arrangements with VM.

Re: BT to buy EE - impact on VMobile?
 

Still not convinced how compelling an offer of quad play from BT will be , in my opinion they don't really excel in many areas.

Re: BT to buy EE - impact on VMobile?
 

BT shareholders have just been informed that BT have now finalised the terms of their EE acquisition.

Going forward, steps are to be taken to "upsell to the combined customer base the full range of communication services".

Re: BT to buy EE - impact on VMobile?
 

And apparently it'll take a full year for the merger to actually happen on paper, and god knows how long after that to physically integrate networks and systems.

Re: BT to buy EE - impact on VMobile?
 

Indeed, given that Virgin still hasn't finished merging NTL and Blueyonder in places, who themselves never quite merged all of the different telcos they absorbed over the years, there's a long way to go.

Re: BT to buy EE - impact on VMobile?
 

Although that may be what is slowing VM down. They aren't just merging two systems. They are potentially merging dozens.

Re: BT to buy EE - impact on VMobile?
 

Thank god I'm dumping EE in May.

Re: BT to buy EE - impact on VMobile?
 

I don't think this deal would effect Virgin Mobile other than it will add competition for quadplay.

I'm pretty sure BT will be forced to keep all existing deals open as it would be anti-competitive if they were to renegade on the existing deal with Virgin Mobile.

---------- Post added at 16:50 ---------- Previous post was at 16:44 ----------

Their homehubs? Biggest WiFi hotspot service globally? BT Sport? Installing fibre nearly all over the UK in a short period of time?

Even though I don't have their services I can appreciate what they do and how innovative they are.

Re: BT to buy EE - impact on VMobile?
 

The BT-EE deal directly contributed to the 3-O2 merger. This merger will result in future mobile operators so will likely see the prices charged to MVNOs like VM raised. In Austria where four mobile networks reduced to three, retail prices soon rose €5 to €10 per month. Normally, competition rules would stop such large mergers taking place. However, the EU is keen to see strong European telecom companies who are able to compete with global telecoms players like AT&T and NTT so the 3-O2 deal should pass through.

Re: BT to buy EE - impact on VMobile?
 

My experience of the WIFI Hotspots is pretty annoying. You always get a really weak signal and inevitably end up turning off the WIFI to get a weak mobile signal that may work?

Re: BT to buy EE - impact on VMobile?
 

I have used BT in the past for work purposes rather than personal and found the WiFi hotspots very useful. But that's just my experience.

I don't think it's fair to say BT don't excel. There are other areas like their contracts with the NHS etc where they have excelled.