Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

Is there any justification for the petition against him re joining Sheffield United ,do we try to rehabilitate prisoners or just throw them on the scrap heap on release.

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

What's your view on it? you haven't said.

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

Yes he should .

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

Well I think he shouldn't.

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

Footballers can be seen as role models, he's clearly not. So no.

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

I think it should be based on the circumstances of the case. If it was proven he was a predatory rapist then he shouldn't be allowed back in that position but I think the whole "Too drunk to consent" angle makes it a very grey area. Does he have a history of this? Did he purposely get her drunk with the intention of making her incapable of fighting back? If there's strong evident to suggest he is I'd be against him returning to professional football. But as it is and in these circumstances I think he should be allowed once chance.

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

Personally, I say no. However, if people who have killed (Lee Hughes and Luke McCormick as examples) can be allowed to play again then a rapist should as well because even though it is a despicable crime he didn't kill the victim. If that makes sense, I know I am contradicting myself there.

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

It's immaterial..what will decide it is how much the football industry and associated industries can make or lose financially over the issue.

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

is there any point in having a justice system if those who are convicted of crime are made to suffer after they have paid their dept to society [oh and i hate football so to me its just a job would this question be asked if he worked at Tesco .]

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

There is no law against him playing. However the clubs themselves might find it a bit of a PR nightmare and that is what is causing the question to be asked. I think it's difficult to see how he is rehabilitated if he continues to deny the crime.

I am not sure I really care if he is allowed to play again. He has served his sentence and you cannot punish someone forever for their crimes but at the same time football players are public figures and there are questions over how fans will react and how the club's reputation will be affected.

I think though that his maintaining of his innocence, however genuine he considers it to be, will cause problems.

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

Good point .the whole basis of our justice system is built around rehabilitation,to serve a debt to society and then(in most cases) be introduced back into society as a productive member .I myself employ an ex drug dealer who served 5 yrs out of 9 ,he now pays taxes and earns money without the need for any state aid ,if we are to hold crimes against people for the rest of their lives then we should prepare for a benefits bill far greater than we have now

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

Ok. you've talked me into it.

but what if punishments were by way of a fine?
you can rape who you want. pay societies bill. and go back to what you were doing.

a whole football team could rape a group of girls. pay what's owed and go back to playing football.

or is it the fact that because there was a prison term involved as a way of paying for the rape. does that make it ok in the way that the debt has been paid?

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

Did you have a hanky on your head and 2 pencils up you nose when you wrote that ?

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

No. I was changing a set of spark plugs and some oil.

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

Of course he should.

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

Yes. So far as I'm concerned he's done the time for the crime. In answer to those who're wondering why 'he hasn't shown remorse', he's unlikely to want to do/say anything which could prejudice his appeal. When that's done and dusted he'll be a lot freer to comment on matters.

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

I think a lot of footballers and clubs are financially "raping" supporters. Ditto bankers, insurance companies, loan companies, etc., etc.

I would expect a convicted banker to be barred from being a banker in the future, so should a convicted rapist be barred from being in public where he could rape again?

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

From a legal perspective I would have to say yeas as he has served his time, morally though I would say no.

Appreciate its off topic but I think his girlfriend is a complete tool, she keeps on about standing by him as she doesn't think he is a rapist, glossing over the fact he was having a threesome while a couple of others watched??

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

By that logic, no criminal should be allowed in public in case they committed the crime again....:confused:

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

If Lee Hughes can go back to playing professional football after killing someone, then I don't see any reason why Ched Evans shouldn't be allowed to back

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

I think murderers should never leave jail alive.

Rapists and paedophiles are a very close second, especially when violence was part of the crime.

I don't think leopards can change their spots, despite what psychiatrists and psychologists claim.

And a jail sentence should be a jail sentence, not half a jail sentence for "good behaviour". Good behaviour should be the norm, and if a prisoner does not comply, their sentence should be extended.

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

There's plenty of proof that they can

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

I don't think so. Footballers are idolised by youngsters and even adults and are role models. Even ex-rapist is not a good one.

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

"He used to be a rapist, sweetheart... but he's alright now" :)

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

Yes.

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

I am not even sure why society thinks it has the right to give someone a chance or not.

No one has the right to allow or deny him a chance, it is upto him and the profession he goes into.

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

What cracks me up is that this conversation would not be happening at all if he was not a overpaid ballerina who kicks a bag of wind around a pitch :rolleyes:

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

This.

I'm not sure if its a result of each new generation being successively dumber than the previous but I'm starting to get concerned about a large mindset of very many people that seems to think it's ok and should be the norm for someone to keep on paying for their crimes ad infinitum. It's something I'm seeing a lot of in the news. If this is the way we're going, we might as well just dismantle the entire justice system and prisons and just let the vigilantes do their thing and hope they get it right. Indeed it would probably be kinder to just shoot convicted people in the head, rather than have them ostracised and tortured by society for the rest of their lives.

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

Yes, he can play... and the chants/banners on the stands in support of Evans already started.....

His judicial review request will be under way in a few weeks. Let's wait and see.

I fail to understand the hate shown for the girl involved. She never pressed any charges, she never asked or took any money (apart the 6K for the people revealinf her name), she never said anything apart that she cannot remember. Why are they against her???

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

Thinking about this more I think he should be allowed to play. The principle of you've served your time has to work irrespective of how we feel about the crime and the way they've behaved.

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

But you wouldn't let an ex pedo go back to working with children?

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

Nor would you let a rapist work in a womens shelter ,no reason though why a pedo couldn't be a footballer or a rapist be a footballer for that matter

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

Don't suppose you can do it in English, now? :)

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

No.
He was convicted for a crime which should be at least 10 years. His crime was committed in Wales and to a welsh woman. A condition of his licence (not possible I know)should be that he is confined to South Wales (184 miles from his victim. Banned from drinking.This won't and can't happen, pity though.

What a possibility - Chad Evans
 

http://news.sky.com/story/1395436/ha...-a-possibility

Hartlepool say there is a possibility of signing Chad Evans.

What's happened, another outcry condemning this 'possibility' We have the Vic Chairman of Sheffield United, talking about bullying tactics. With people saying that Evans shouldn't even put boots on again. Such as a local Labour MP

I have two questions on this matter. Evans is appealing against the sentence that he has just served, and what l have read WASNT seen at the original trial. The guy was found guilty of a nasty crime against a woman. Should he be allowed to try and get back into football - l believe he should. He has done his time, or do we punish him for the rest of his life. And qwhat will happen, if the appeal is a success. I can see law suits coming for nasty remarks in the media.

My second point is this - we have nasty Paedophiles, who commit the crimes again children, get six months. Are out on the streets, and no bats an eyelid about - and are allowed to go back to work as if nothing has happened.

What do other members think - nothing nasty about me for my opinion

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

So for some crimes (rape) you believe if they've served their time, they should have a clean slate - but for others (Unlawful Sexual Intercourse, Sexual Offences against a Minor), they shouldn't.

Mixed messages....

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

The basis for his conviction was that he should have known how drunk she was, because her behaviour in reception. That is strange because Ched Evans wasn't there to see it, but the other guy involved was, and he was found not guilty and iirc is still playing football.

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

That was not the basis for conviction.

Here is the findings for the failed appeal against his sentence.

https://www.crimeline.info/case/r-v-...-chedwyn-evans Which was based on his earlier statement

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

McDonald was not convicted, so, she was not too drunk to consent to him. She had no more booze, and here comes Evans. Evans was convicted because she was too drunk to consent.

:confused:

What I do not like is the Evans lot is hostile towards the girl. Why? She never pressed charges, she may have written a couple of silly messages, so???

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

She didn't get there with Ched Evans, she got there with McDonald.

If they had both been found guilty, that would have been one thing, but to find McDonald not guilty and Evans guilty, is quite another.

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

Evans can, apparently, kick a ball. The financial reward for this is ridiculously high but it's one way that civilised people satiate their need for competition. Football has rules. Society has rules. Evans decided those rules do not apply to him so he's been sent off.

He still professes his innocence. He has stepped outside the rules and by doing so he is excluding himself from the game of life and football. Any decent person would not have taken advantage in the circumstances he found himself in. And any decent person who had made a mistake would admit it. His time is not served until he accepts he was wrong.

I don't think he can let himself back into football until he accepts his guilt and pays reparations to his victim.

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

Yes that bit I still don't really understand.

---------- Post added at 14:10 ---------- Previous post was at 14:02 ----------

Presumably all that applies to anyone who commits a serious crime, not just footballers. What test would you suggest applying to assess the sincerity of any future acceptance of guilt by Evans or anyone else is a similar situation? Let's face it, it'd be the easiest thing in the world for someone to say a few words but not really mean them or intend to change their behaviour or views.

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

At this moment he is a convicted rapist. If it was a n other it's more than likely a n other would be sacked by their employer. It's also doubtful a n other would be employed by anyone else as the individual would have to declare their conviction.

So why should it be different for Ched Evans?

If he appeals and wins, he should be able to resume his career.

That's my two penneth

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

Future behaviour is the test of sincerity. The onus is upon the individual, not society, to prove they are reformed by behaving like decent people do. They can remain closet perverts for as long as they like for all I care but if they exercise their predilection, they can expect an extended stay in the slammer. Rapists and other serious offenders, for example, are monitored for this very purpose.

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

Leslie Grantham was made a main character on Eastenders and he had a murder conviction :erm:

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

All of that's fine but you stated in effect that people like this should only be allowed to move forward if they showed real remorse etc. Well how much remorse and for how long? Yes perverts' behaviour can be monitored but their thoughts can't be so at what point is someone like Evans going to be allowed to reintegrate himself and resume his career and who's going to determine that.

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

I don't think there is a time scale for absolution although he seems to have forgiven himself quite promptly. I doubt his victim feels the same way. I'd be happy to give her the power over him that he exercised over her.

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

Well as far as I'm aware he still maintains he's innocent so that's not surprising is it. He's had a couple of years in jail to think about it all and has a criminal record which will endure.

I doubt she does either and that's the reason we don't give victims the power to determine punishments in this country.

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

Seems his thinking in jail has led him to the conclusion that he's innocent; a view obviously disputed by his peers. It's unlikely therefore that his peers will view this as a sign of remorse.

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

If the guy who had sex with her just before himself, was innocent, it is not unreasonable for him to think he is innocent.
How on earth did McDonald get away with at least being charged with being complicit in the crime.

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

Best ask the Jury - they decided this.

And the appeal Judges, who turned down his first appeal....

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

He was protesting his innocence before going to court and still is. That's why he asked to appeal as he is entitled to do. Judging the sincerity of someone's remorse is impossible. I dare say our jails are full of people who've committed serious crimes, apologised in court to get a lesser punishment and upon release carried on precisely where they left off. How would requiring Evans to apologise for what happened change anything? If he did so now I dare say many people would simply write it off as a cynical gesture intended to assuage public opinion.

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

It's as Hugh says:

To be honest anyway, I don't care whether criminals feel hard done by or whether their careers can be re-established. I care more about the victim. She can never 'get back' that which he took from her.

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

He did the crime (at least the Jury thought so) and now he's done the time.

He should be allowed to continue his career just like every other (ex) criminal. I find the fact he was forced out of training at Sheffield by what was basically mob rule and blackmail by other parties rather disturbing.

Btw, re the post above, what exactly has he "took from her" ?

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

His incarceration is complete; his acceptance by his peers evidently is not.

He took her self respect. Would you feel so forgiving if he had physically violated you?

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

An ability to trust other people, Being able to go out at night and not feel petrified, being able to have a normal relationship?

It's hard to know but the above are the some of the things other victims have said is an issue. It's not something you would be able to easily relate too or understand if you're not a victim I would imagine.

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

Surely any loss of trust would be down to McDonald.

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

And/or Evans, and their two mates who filmed it from outside the room window....

I think Damien meant her loss of trust in any man......

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

I'd feel a lot less forgiving if his victim had any recollection of him violating her

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

Dear Lord.

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

Yawn, instead of attempting to infer things why not just ask for an explanation.

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

I think your comment already adequately explains itself.

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

well jog on then you boring little wum

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

Now, now mummy's little soldier shouldn't be rude.

Ok I'll indulge you (as would a kind father), please explain why you'd "feel a lot less forgiving if his victim had any recollection of him violating her" :erm:.

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

because you said in violating her he took herself respect, I don't think he did, she has no memory of the incident or what he did to her, I feel a lot less forgiving to those types that drag women into bushes and rape at knife point than I do the likes of Evans.

Oh and I wasn't being rude, what else do you call someone that attempts to infer things from what's said and continues such approach despite already having been corrected.

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

Well, I'm afraid our opinions differ. Rape is rape. You appear to feel that there are 'nice' rapes which make them acceptable.

I don't want to be vulgar but if someone buggered you whilst you were incapacitated would you think that you had been fair game?

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

WHAT, will people say IF new evidence which wasn't seen at the trial, its on his website. And l have read it.

IF he wins the appeal, and his conviction is quashed, l can see lot of compo coming someones way

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

I'm guessing you're trolling just to be offensive. Nobody has ever suggested any sort of rape is 'nice' and it's pretty low of you to suggest they have.

Whereas rape is rape as you rightly say, there is a difference between someone having sex with a woman when she's too drunk to remember whether or not she consented, and when she is beaten up, forced to the floor and attacked.

The difference is intent. Can it be proven the former intended to take advantage? In case your habit of putting words in peoples' mouths returns I'll make it clear I'm not suggesting someone in that situation ought to be treated more leniently.

But there is still a difference.

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

To be fair, good point well made.

---------- Post added at 19:55 ---------- Previous post was at 19:47 ----------

Oh dear, there isn't.

Because if she is too " drunk" to consent, then she didn't consent. It's quite that simple.

nope, intent is the same, to have sex with the woman, whether she wants to or not.

If the woman cannot give consent, or is in such a state that non- responsiveness or the ability to say no is impaired, then consent is not given.

For men who have trouble understanding this, I think the example given is absolutely spot on. If you came round in an apartment with a sore backside, I'm sure you'd think differently

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

She would have been very drunk when she supposedly gave "consent" to McDonald. She hadn't drunk any more since "agreeing" to go back to the hotel with McDonald.

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

Well, that's sort of the point isn't it?

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

But did she agree to have sex with Evans?

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

That hasn't been the full question. It was decided on the basis that she was too drunk. If she was too drunk to consent to Evans, then automatically, if not more so, she couldn't consent to McDonald.

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

Ok but the jury thought different as did the judge at his appeal, so not sure what you are getting at?

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

What IF the tooth fairy says he is innocent? Let's stick with the facts: he was convicted by a jury as per the law of this land.

ROAR! :rofl:

Thanks Pierre. Not sure we can get everyone to understand the points being made though...

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

Where did I say or appear to say I thought there were nice rapes, as a matter of fact I think there are nasty rapes and even nastier rapes, something which the justice system agrees with me on as not all rapists receive the same sentence upon conviction. Again where did I say she'd been fair game or blamed her in anyway for what had happened, it really is quite pointless discussing anything with you of you don't have the courtesy to reply to what's written, you may think these constant inferences and assumptions help your argument but all it really shows is that you're not up to an adult discussion.

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

Talking of which.......I don't want to be vulgar but if someone buggered you whilst you were incapacitated would you think that you had been fair game?

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

Can you point out where I said anyone including me would be fair game if incapacitated, if not why expect me to reply to an erroneous question

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

You didn't but this comment inferred that you has less/ little sympathy for the victim because she was incapacitated.

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/35748021-post60.html

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

Personally any player/sportsman/women convicted of serious crimes should be banned from playing their sports at any level.

If he was to be subsequently cleared of any crimes he should be allowed to compete in his sport.

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

No it didn't, just because I'm more forgiving of "mr" Evans because his crime didn't involve violence or forcing her doesn't mean I have little or no sympathy for his victim or indeed am that forgiving of him for that matter, just because he is one rung up on the ladder from knife wielding maniac rapist doesn't mean he still isn't a bit of a **** bag imo

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

Yes it did

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

Well, that's cleared that up then :erm:

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

No it didn't, I realise it's panto season but I never mentioned having any level of sympathy for his victim in that post

---------- Post added at 21:28 ---------- Previous post was at 21:27 ----------

Best you go on the ignore list

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

Beep, beep, this vehicle is reversing.

Ok, just explain, in English and small words what you mean by the above.

You'd feel a lot less forgiving to the rapist if the victim could remember what happened?

So you feel some level of forgiveness ( which isn't really yours to give but we'll ignore that bit) for him now?

But because his victim was incapacitated, and has little recollection of his actions you, by your own statement, forgive him a bit more.?

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

Yes that's about the size of it, if he'd been violent and she had been forced to relive her experience through memory I'd be a lot more inclined to join the lynch mob.

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

Having sex with someone without their consent IS an act of violence but I entirely agree that I should be on your ignore list. You'll be safe there ;)

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

This is a bit weird. As mentioned it is an act of violence and she'll still have live with the knowledge it happened and subsequent court case and media attention.

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

That's potentially worse than being conscious when the act happened, as you'd never know what actually happened and all you could do is imagine what occurred which may be worse.

Also just because a person may unconscious doesn't mean the rape wasn't violent - how do you square that up.

You don't have to punch someone for the rape to be violent. he still forced himself into somewhere that he shouldn't have been. That can cause injury.

Very twisted logic.

So to answer the original question, Does that mean if you got very drunk, and were anally
raped, you couldn't remember what happened but the rape had torn your anal tissue.

You'd be more forgiving of the rapist would you?

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

She has had to move three times and get a new identity due to death threats.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wa...-calls-8000213

Re: What a possibility - Chad Evans
 

Depends on what you think about a pedo serving his time and going back into football.

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

No you don't have to punch but I think you know what I meant when I said violence, I've explained it to wummy several times already after all and I think I would be happier not remembering and I know for certain a Ex work colleague who was raped would be in a lot better place and wouldn't have tried.to commit suicide if he had no knowledge of what happened to him.

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

You've explained nothing except that when you're in a hole you really should stop digging.

But for our continued amusement I hope you still keep trying to explain your warped opinion.

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

She revealed her new identity herself, why blame Evans or his supporters for that?

I cannot understand why Evans's lot hate her, she has done absolutely nothing against Evans, never pressed charges, she said nothing other "I cannot remember". Can somebody explain this to me?

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

These may well be part of the reason.

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

Erm, care to back that up with a link.

9 people have been found guilty of naming her on Social Media.

Re: Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football
 

You can't be serious, it is not legal to post it. I am not sure whether it is even legal to PM it to you...

I am sure you know that google.co.uk is censored. it states so at the bottom of the page.

Indeed.

I would like to know why the tory MP that tweeted her name has not been prosecuted.

---------- Post added at 21:17 ---------- Previous post was at 21:12 ----------

Just for those silly tweets? she appears to be just a poor girl with very few prospects in her life....