Are Smart Meters a good thing?
 

In a frankly shocking display of common sense for a Tory MP (calm down Arthur), Adam Afriyie suggests that they might not be the best option for consumers, as there are ways to get the advantages they offer (especially allowing consumers to monitor and control their own usage) for a lot less than the £11bn it will cost to replace every meter.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/07...am_afriyie_mp/

Of course, the new meters will enable the utility companies to accurately track usage, and, if necessary, cut off the consumer. All without the need for a person to come and read the meter. It will also allow them to accurately judge the supply needed in a given area. All of this will enable them to reduce their costs, but that's not why we are being told that smart meters are being installed.

Re: Are Smart Meters a good thing?
 

Someone, somewhere, is getting a big backhander for pushing these "smart" meters.

I read our meters every week, using a triangular key, my eyes, a pen and paper. A damned sight cheaper than a smart meter.

Would a "smart" meter change my energy use habits? Not all all, as with most people I reckon.

Re: Are Smart Meters a good thing?
 

My problem with smart meters is they're trying to be too smart. All the metering/supply company needs to know is how much electricity you've used for billing purposes. I wouldn't mind that being relayed back via powerline networking or the meter's own mobile connection (if available). I'd grudgingly accept a connection to my broadband, but only if I was to have full control of the meter's networking settings.

The problem is that if meters are to have a remote disconnection facility then it MUST be secured (and I mean properly secured against internal and external cracking)and ONLY available to specific persons within a metering/supply company (I'm thinking names, senior persons, not Joe Bloggs in a callcentre). Also, I foresee that the meters will be capable of "demand management", or put simply, remote managed powercuts when our coal fired power stations are shut down (down to individual house levels), or you'd find the oven wouldn't power up at 6pm because everyone else in the street got there before you...

Re: Are Smart Meters a good thing?
 

Don't smart meters also allow the monitoring of exported power too? Currently we get paid for 50 of what we generate whether we export or use it so we run a lot of stuff during peak generation period.

Re: Are Smart Meters a good thing?
 

Seen some energy bills last week where the people were being charged more for their standing charge than they were for their actual energy usage. Don't think smart meters will help these people at all, apart from more being added on to their bill to pay for them.

The more efficient people become with their energy use, the more the suppliers will increase the cost per unit to keep their profits up. We have already seen this to some extent as buildings have got more insulation and energy efficient items. So there will be no real gain for the customer.

Re: Are Smart Meters a good thing?
 

Damn good idea I think. Just signed up for smart meters to be fitted.

Re: Are Smart Meters a good thing?
 

The cost of making a meter "smart" is negligible these days compared to the cost of the meter itself.

Plus, you read your meters every week? How long does it take you to do? 2 minutes? Which adds up to, 2 hours a year or so?

Two hours of my time is worth more than the incremental cost of a smart meter, oddly enough.

---------- Post added at 21:31 ---------- Previous post was at 21:25 ----------

Some say it's a problem, some say it's an advantage. Because of how flexible general-purpose computing chips are these days, once you have the hardware in place you can do just about anything (including remotely upgrading and adding more features). If the capability is there, might as well use it any way you can.
Smart meters are unlikely to ever use your home broadband for anything other than backup, and most likely not even that.

Re: Are Smart Meters a good thing?
 

They're a good marketing tool, the suppliers know when you are in by the leccy you use - what's to stop them selling that information to marketing companies? For this reason, other European countries have thrown them out.

Re: Are Smart Meters a good thing?
 

Which European countries have thrown them out?

Re: Are Smart Meters a good thing?
 

In Austria and Germany, they are no longer compulsory due to concerns about data security and the lack of savings

Re: Are Smart Meters a good thing?
 

I'm still not convinced of the benefits. How does the meter know what appliances I'm using make up the 1kw draw? (or do they depend on sensors on major appliances). My meter is an old-fashioned disc type, and I can tell at a glance if my usage is low, medium or "Jeez that's turning a bit quick..."

The other thing is that I know of many electricity supplies in areas with precisely zero mobile phone reception (deep valleys etc) How will these "phone home"?

Re: Are Smart Meters a good thing?
 

That's a big difference from being 'thrown out'.....

Re: Are Smart Meters a good thing?
 

Outsmarting the smart meter

Interesting idea of transparent proxying and sending back bogus readings to the energy company once you get past the fact they are pushing their honeypot/traffic monitoring device. Going to be much more investigating of these devices as they get more popular.

Imagine a thief being able to sit outside your house, get in to your wifi and then in to the smart meter that tells him what goodies are connected. Could make a decision which house to burgle based on that :P

Re: Are Smart Meters a good thing?
 

I think the idea that people will change their usage habbits is flawed, most people simple wont change anything.

Re: Are Smart Meters a good thing?
 

Presumably that doesn't work on GSM connected smart-meters (that said fake GSM base stations aren't hard to create either), plus why aren't they using TLS?

Re: Are Smart Meters a good thing?
 

Do these meters allow the energy company to remotely turn your service off for none payment ?

Re: Are Smart Meters a good thing?
 

http://www.consumerfocus.org.uk/get-...mart-meters#B4

Re: Are Smart Meters a good thing?
 

Well considering Ofgem is pretty much toothless and the energy companies ignore Ofgem all the time i can see that will be abused all the time. Bet you Npower will be the first to abuse it.

Seems pretty easy for them to abuse if you ask me. Also looking at that document they can switch you to a prepayment meter at the press of a switch, they make loads more money from prepayment so i can see them abusing that as well.

Having had a new meter installed this year i will resist having it changed for as long as i can.

Re: Are Smart Meters a good thing?
 

I know a couple of countries in the Finland/ Denmark area threw them out over privacy concerns but I can't find which two

Re: Are Smart Meters a good thing?
 

Norway Sweden Denmark Finland That leaves Iceland, with it's population of just over 300k - I can't find anything regarding smart metering for them.

Re: Are Smart Meters a good thing?
 

My friend has a British Gas Smart Meter and he dose not have broadband, it seems that the Smart Meter has it's on mobile connection.

Re: Are Smart Meters a good thing?
 

Could this be the next big thing. We had cable box chipping, now Sat card sharing, next meter hacking. you get some dodgy guy down the pub to come and hack your meters software :)

Re: Are Smart Meters a good thing?
 

To be fair I thought all disconnections were already done 'remotely, i.e. at a distance, without visiting your home' by having you cut off at the tap. It'd be pretty pointless disconnecting someone inside their own home when they could just go plug it back in again... ---------- Post added at 21:19 ---------- Previous post was at 21:19 ---------- Really? How come our prepayment meter was actually 40% cheaper than the post-pay tariff we were on, before being forced to change due to 'non-payment' owing to their own cock-ups?

Re: Are Smart Meters a good thing?
 

Disconnections are done at your meter, the main fuse is withdrawn and holder without fuse sealed back in to the socket

Re: Are Smart Meters a good thing?
 

Interesting, so all those people claiming they've been 'disconnected' without having permitted anyone to enter their home to do so are lying then?

Re: Are Smart Meters a good thing?
 

i've got utillia smart meter install in my home they are great using less than i did when on card and key meter 20 quid lasted me on gas a month electric not that good but i think there great

Re: Are Smart Meters a good thing?
 

The problem is, as I've mentioned, the small but significant number of properties with electrical supply but no mobile signal at all. How do they "phone home"?

Re: Are Smart Meters a good thing?
 

Carrier pigeon. ;)

Re: Are Smart Meters a good thing?
 

Not everyones meter is inside their home.

Re: Are Smart Meters a good thing?
 

Indeed as ours is outside.

Re: Are Smart Meters a good thing?
 

Do regulations mandate that they are externally mounted now?

Re: Are Smart Meters a good thing?
 

Just to clarify, smart meters use a built in SIM card to send your reads. I had smart meters at my last place and they did not connect to my LAN :)

Re: Are Smart Meters a good thing?
 

True, but these particular examples were (every meter I've seen in a city has been indoors, and come to think of it, why would someone put an electric meter and/or fuse box outdoors?)

---------- Post added at 03:46 ---------- Previous post was at 03:45 ----------

Unless you're referring to completely new builds, or there is an exemption for flat blocks, evidently not since our last meter got fitted just above the bathroom door.