Malaysian plane crashes on Ukraine-Russia border
 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...rder-live.html

:shocked:

Re: Malaysian plane crashes on Ukraine-Russia border
 

From Sky

Tragic, the squabbles between Russia and Ukraine looks like they've just claimed 295 lives.

Re: Malaysian plane crashes on Ukraine-Russia border
 

Terrible! Now the blame game will start.

Re: Malaysian plane crashes on Ukraine-Russia border
 

Interfax are saying it was shot down.

Re: Malaysian plane crashes on Ukraine-Russia border
 

Seems Malaysian Airlines are bloody dogged by bad luck. Wonder how many Brits were on board? Time for the airline to be investigated properly?

Yes, I know it was shot down but this is the second aircraft of theirs to crash this year.

Re: Malaysian plane crashes on Ukraine-Russia border
 

It seems that some pro-Russian rebels had just announced the shooting down of a Ukranian transport plane just before news broke of this. Putting 2+2 together makes me think they did shoot down a large plane, only it wasn't what they thought it was.

Re: Malaysian plane crashes on Ukraine-Russia border
 

The escalation button has just been pushed :(

Re: Malaysian plane crashes on Ukraine-Russia border
 

Re: Malaysian plane crashes on Ukraine-Russia border
 

If it's true about the pro-Russian rebels' claims, Putin's going to have a hard job explaining this one away.

Re: Malaysian plane crashes on Ukraine-Russia border
 

There will never be proof of who did this if it is proven that the plan was shot down.

Re: Malaysian plane crashes on Ukraine-Russia border
 

Guess it depends on what you accept as 'proof'. If the balance of probability from various sources is that Russian backed rebel forces in Ukraine did this (and apparently they'd have required Russian missiles to do it) then I think the rest of the world will draw their own conclusions and I'd expect some sort of repercussions probably in the form of more sanctions from the west.

I guess a lot will depend on where the wreckage is and what's found.

Re: Malaysian plane crashes on Ukraine-Russia border
 

The type of missile used to down an aircraft at this altitude will leave a significant IR bloom. It's highly likely that the NRO will have satellite monitoring capable of detecting such a launch. Bear in mind that there's a significant amount of focus on this area at the moment so it's unlikely that the watchers are sitting on their hands.

Re: Malaysian plane crashes on Ukraine-Russia border
 

If it was on its correct flight path, what could they have done. But unfair to say they should be investigated over this, the first one yes, but this could have been any airline.

Re: Malaysian plane crashes on Ukraine-Russia border
 

Interesting and worrying times ahead methinks.

Re: Malaysian plane crashes on Ukraine-Russia border
 

Seen someone elsewhere saying that it is a plot by Obama to start a war in Russia. Can't see it myself.

Re: Malaysian plane crashes on Ukraine-Russia border
 

Yeah Obama really wants a war in Europe...

Re: Malaysian plane crashes on Ukraine-Russia border
 

Spooky

Re: Malaysian plane crashes on Ukraine-Russia border
 

As i said in the other thread, get your tinfoil hats ready :D

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/35...-post1032.html

Re: Malaysian plane crashes on Ukraine-Russia border
 

They just said on the news that Ukraine banned civilian flights over that area three days ago, if that's true some sort of investigation is entirely justified

---------- Post added at 19:23 ---------- Previous post was at 19:21 ----------

9 brits, 23 Americans...

Re: Malaysian plane crashes on Ukraine-Russia border
 

The vast majority of airlines were still flying over the Ukraine until today and only now are announcing that they will no longer do it. There won't be an investigation into why they were there.

Re: Malaysian plane crashes on Ukraine-Russia border
 

I don't think that's strictly true because the FAA and every other AIP agency would have issued NOTAMs to that effect. The FAA did issue a NOTAM in April prohibiting US carriers from certain parts of Ukranian airspace around the Crimea.

Given that both Malaysian Airlines and Singapore Airlines have been routinely operating that airway until today they obviously don't share the same caution.

Re: Malaysian plane crashes on Ukraine-Russia border
 

these pictures are conflicting...

https://twitter.com/AirlineFlyer/sta...97421862756352

https://twitter.com/flightradar24/st...95658879348737

Re: Malaysian plane crashes on Ukraine-Russia border
 

It's not the whole of Ukraine for a start

http://en.itar-tass.com/world/741192

Re: Malaysian plane crashes on Ukraine-Russia border
 

Doesn't change the fact that only now are most of the airlines stopping flying over the area this one was shot down. I'm just saying that Malaysian airlines weren't doing anything differently to most others.

Re: Malaysian plane crashes on Ukraine-Russia border
 

There is no loss of en-route air traffic control. Part of a statement from MAS:

Malaysia Airlines confirms it received notification from Ukrainian ATC that it had lost contact with flight MH17 at 1415 (GMT) at 30km from Tamak waypoint, approximately 50km from the Russia-Ukraine border.


If there was a break in ATC coverage then it was probably related to lower airspace. MH and SQ have been routinely flying this airspace up until today. They haven't done anything wrong.

Re: Malaysian plane crashes on Ukraine-Russia border
 

I think it may come down to who finds the Black Box and what happens to it..

Re: Malaysian plane crashes on Ukraine-Russia border
 

Guess who have control of it, the Russians.

Re: Malaysian plane crashes on Ukraine-Russia border
 

Maggy I think that black box would just "vanish" into thin air.

also that wouldn't say if the plane was hit by a SAM unfortunately as I dont think a standard passenger plane has the defence mechanism to deflect sam's via either flares or chaff.

---------- Post added at 20:41 ---------- Previous post was at 20:40 ----------

Hom3r yeah worrying that 1... that whole area is under lockdown now.

Re: Malaysian plane crashes on Ukraine-Russia border
 

Re: Malaysian plane crashes on Ukraine-Russia border
 

If the Russians have it they will reprogram it then hand it over.

Re: Malaysian plane crashes on Ukraine-Russia border
 

Depending on what other surveillance sources show maybe the black boxes aren't essential. Of course the Americans won't want to divulge too much of their capability so they may decide to keep certain information to themselves.

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The Russians have no claim to the flight recorder since the aircraft didn't come down in their territory. I expect that they will simply deny having it.

Re: Malaysian plane crashes on Ukraine-Russia border
 

From the BBC twitter account

Let me correct that "for reprogramming"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-28354787

Re: Malaysian plane crashes on Ukraine-Russia border
 

It was the last paragraph that contained the relevant info, that said it hasn't been mentioned since which is suspicious in itself, it's either bogus or someone trying to hide something, think I'll go with bogus until something credible crops up about how closed or unclosed the airspace should've been.

As for who done it I don't think it was rebels, imo it's either Russian or Ukranian military.

---------- Post added at 21:55 ---------- Previous post was at 21:54 ----------

The rebels have it and have said they'll cooperate fully...

Re: Malaysian plane crashes on Ukraine-Russia border
 

Apparently Eurocontrol confirmed that the restricted airspace was up to 32000 feet so they were just 1000 feet above. That's on the Grauniad news feed.

Jo Biden now saying that us intel detected a heat bloom from a missile launch.

Re: Malaysian plane crashes on Ukraine-Russia border
 

Not sure how genuine it is but there appears to be leaked audio of the pro-Russian rebels admitted they did it.

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That will disappear soon

Re: Malaysian plane crashes on Ukraine-Russia border
 

i'd be careful clicking on those links on reddit - bodies including children on some of them.

Whatever happend its terribly sad :(

Re: Malaysian plane crashes on Ukraine-Russia border
 

Good point. I have removed the link. It's just a Reddit thread but people can post whatever comments they want and it was the leaked transcript that was interesting but that's now been picked up by mainstream sources anyway.

Re: Malaysian plane crashes on Ukraine-Russia border
 

Just heard Putin blaming Ukraine as it happened on their territory and they're responsible for the current problem. No mention of the role Russia's played in snatching Crimea and stoking up problems elsewhere in Ukraine and supplying weapons as you'd expect... :rolleyes:

Re: Malaysian plane crashes on Ukraine-Russia border
 

According to the BBC there were quite a few of the top AIDS researchers on the plane on their way to a conference in Australia :(

"A "large number of world-renowned Aids researchers and activists" were on Flight MH17 heading to an international conference in Australia, AP reports from Sydney. Among them was former president of the International Aids Society Joep Lange, a well-known Dutch HIV researcher."

Re: Malaysian plane crashes on Ukraine-Russia border
 

Well, Putin must be quivering with fear at all the tough talk and the prospect of the EU having lots of discussions but doing precious little by way of meaningful sanctions. I can't see the Germans wanting to risk their energy supplies so see no prospect of them agreeing to anything which would really hit Russia.

Re: Malaysian plane crashes on Ukraine-Russia border
 

WWE criticised after 2 'Russian' stars made use of the crash at the PPV last night in the lead up to the match. Disgusting behaviour by the Board of WWE, this could be another blow to them.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...wrestlers.html

Re: Malaysian plane crashes on Ukraine-Russia border
 

Stay classy Sky.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-live-air.html

Re: Malaysian plane crashes on Ukraine-Russia border
 

And yesterday we had a Sky News reporter going through one of the victims bags, doing exactly what others have been criticised about. Contaminating the scene and showing absolutely no respect for the victims or their families.

Sky really are utter **** of the highest order.

(sorry Derek I think we must have posted at the same time)

Re: Malaysian plane crashes on Ukraine-Russia border
 

I think the scene has long since been contaminated. Also in defence of the reporter it seemed to be a passing lapse of judgement which he embarrassingly seemed to notice half-way though the report. I think that's probably more understandable in a rolling news environment rather than a pre-recorded and edited clip which would show a degree of planning.

Re: Malaysian plane crashes on Ukraine-Russia border
 

Just seen a BBC reporter on TV at the scene being handed a purse and passport by one of the local miners scouring the scene. It's as surreal as it is appalling that all sorts of people are wandering around contaminating the scene, removing evidence etc. when the site needs to be preserved for the investigators. Nice way to muddy the water and lessen the chances of damning evidence being found...

Re: Malaysian plane crashes on Ukraine-Russia border
 

My issue with the situation is that they were basically forced to apologise instead of doing it there and then via the anchor in the studio. I'm pretty sure that transmissions are delayed by a few seconds too, the BBC ones always used to be so surely they could have pulled the plug on the transmission.

Re: Malaysian plane crashes on Ukraine-Russia border
 

Pukin knows he can get away with murder and he is, why because Nato is now toothless and could not fight of a boy scout pack never mind the Russian bear.

Re: Malaysian plane crashes on Ukraine-Russia border
 

So based on Putin statement then the USA is to blame for Pearl Harbour then:rolleyes:

Re: Malaysian plane crashes on Ukraine-Russia border
 

And the UK must be responsible for Lockerbie.

Re: Malaysian plane crashes on Ukraine-Russia border
 

Great to see the solidarity of the EU in all of this. Germany talking a good game to the Netherlands but way too worried about their own interests, while the Netherlands are actually more intertwined economically with Russia.

If Germany weren't benefiting so much from the Eurozone they would leave it at the drop of a hat. We should consider doing likewise with the EU as a whole really, adversity like this shows what a joke the whole thing is.

Re: Malaysian plane crashes on Ukraine-Russia border
 

:tu:

And of course Putin knows this which is, in large part, why he acts the way he does. Anyone who believes the EU is united on anything and that Germany doesn't effectively run the show to suit themselves is deluded.

Re: Malaysian plane crashes on Ukraine-Russia border
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-37495067

I'm certain Putin will put his hands up...

Re: Malaysian plane crashes on Ukraine-Russia border
 

Of course, why wouldn't he?

How time changes things.;)

Re: Malaysian plane crashes on Ukraine-Russia border
 

Russia denied entering Ukraine so there's nothing to come of this that we didn't already know, admitting this mistake is also admitting Russia entered Ukraine.

Unfortunately in that part of the world, despite overwhelming evidence they still just outright deny it. Putin though, a man that talks the talk, speaks a lot of sense then just blatantly commits war crimes, unforgivable.

Re: Malaysian plane crashes on Ukraine-Russia border
 

Think it's quite an important thing being able to change your point of view depending on the available evidence rather than dogmatically sticking to an opinion.

Your mileage may vary of course.

Re: Malaysian plane crashes on Ukraine-Russia border
 

It wasn't a dig at you Carl, just the resurrection of an old thread showing different outlooks. It could've been a comment by anyone really.


A lot can change in someone's life/viewpoint in 2yrs.

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I'd like to think someone somewhere feels guilty for this but to appear in the media showing absolutely no remorse for what you've caused is despicable. Families torn apart as far as Newcastle with absolutely no involvement in anything regarding Ukraine.

Re: Malaysian plane crashes on Ukraine-Russia border
 

Russia has a long history of excellence in chess and they know very well how to exploit pawns whether foreign or home bred.