Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-28182373

Seems everyone was looking the other way..:(

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

This whole story is quite extraordinary. A document about child abuse handed to the Home Office of many alleged 'high-profile' abusers and nothing was apparently done and the file has gone missing. If it emerges that people on the list were abusers and did continue to abuse after the fact then that would be very serious indeed for those who failed to act on it.

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

Wouldn't it be ironic if the files turned up buried in Jimmy Saville's garden. It would explain his apparent 'immunity' during all those years.

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

Hidden paedo files in Westminster? Who'd have thought it?

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

Not sure there has ever been a bigger scandal in Westminster than this, if it is indeed a cover-up, would be.

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

Well with no documents and a public inquiry deemed unnecessary I don't see anything being done about it.I doubt a review will reveal anymore than we presently know..which is zilch.:mad:

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

There is plenty of information yet to come out. Operation Fernbridge is just one instance.

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

You may be right..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-28187357

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-28189072

Hmm!No mention of how politicians,former Cabinet members and Whitehall functionaries handled the same or similar information.:erm:

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

Peter McKelvie is the man to watch. He knows where (some of) the skeletons in the cupboards are.

In fact - by bizarre coincidence.

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

But what powers will Wanless have to order witnesses to appear? This just seems like puppetry to 'protect the establishment'.

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

I'm inclined to agree with you that Wanless is quite possibly a window dressing distraction.

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-28203914

I think this was a good choice..

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

This is the woman who accused Fathers4Justice of making death threats against her then had to make a humiliating apology to them for her unwarranted attack.

Not a good choice by any means.

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

Some of the politicians I have seen mentioned on the internet as being involved in this is quite shocking. Won't mention their names unless mods say it is OK to do so.

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

How do I make the word 'no' sound any more emphatic? ;)

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

Which is why I didn't post any actual names. But like I say, some of the names mentioned are a massive shock.

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

Anyone can post names on the web and it's quite unfair to do so IMHO. Undue public speculation about all this is a very bad idea since it could amount to libel or even prejudice future legal proceedings. IMHO the time for naming anyone is when the police have done their bit, not before.

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

A good choice because of The Cleveland Inquiry.:rolleyes:

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

You mean like Lord McAlpine, who was previously named on the internet, and quite a lot of people ended up paying money to charity because the allegations were unfounded.

Just because it's on the internet, does not mean it is true....

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

True. Wish I had never posted now. Could all my posts in this thread be deleted please.

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

I think it's fair to say that many of those who paid money to charity did so because it was an option offered rather than incurring potentially massive legal costs & fines in the event that they were successfully sued.

Helpful.

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

Looks like there are others who also doubt her suitablity for the position:

Linky1

Linky2

I think anybody leading this enquiry must be above any reproach.

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

:tu:

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

Yep let's not forget she's the one who gave Jamie Bulger's killers the right to anonymity for life.

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

And any other judge in the same position would have done the same..

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

Exactly.

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

We need somebody who is totally divorced from the febrile atmosphere of Westminster, Lady Butler Sloss is in IMHO not that person.

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

Seconded!

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

OK! Who would you suggest?Bearing in mind we need someone who is at least an expert on child abuse and all it's issues and isn't connected to Westminster..

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

More cracks appearing?

"Baroness Butler-Sloss criticised over previous 'flawed' paedophile report.

The retired judge appointed to lead the Government's major review of child sex abuse allegations admitted 'inaccuracies' in similar report two years ago."

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

One name comes to mind: Esther Rantzen or maybe someone from the NSPCC.

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

Yes, Esther Rantzen. She'd be great*.







* As useful as a chocolate fire guard.

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

We do rather need someone with a knowledge of the law as well.:erm:

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

A woman who knew saville was a paedophile and did and said nothing?

---------- Post added at 15:42 ---------- Previous post was at 15:40 ----------

she's eighty years old as well

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

Oh dear.

"The retired high court judge is reported to have told a victim of alleged abuse that she did not want to include some of his allegations in a review of how the Church of England dealt with two paedophile priests because she "cared about the Church" and "the press would love a bishop"."

Worrying if true.

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

Whilst I have no evidence at all to back this up, I'd be very surprised if it turned out to be untrue. It seems like there has been a lot of "think of the greater good" and "what would it do to the overall reputation" attitudes with these and other child abuse cases. As if sweeping it under the carpet is the best answer due to what damage it would do to the CoE, Parliament, Catholic Church, BBC or any other large organisations that have had such allegations made against it.

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

Joan Burnie was on Question time the other night and said she was married to a an MP in the 70's and reckoned some of those uncovered were then "blackmailed" into doing stuff that was needed , presumably by their respective parties.

So not only does it seem you had perverts molesting children you had others directly profiting in one way or another from keeping it quiet.

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

:D

---------- Post added at 20:34 ---------- Previous post was at 20:32 ----------

And a poor choice imo because she is at the heart of the establishment Lord Tebbit was talking about being protected plus she has been retired quite a while now to

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

So who would you suggest?Everyone who keeps saying she is unsuitable have so far failed to offer any credible alternative.

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

Someone else who is on the panel can lead, it's not up to us to offer any credible alternative, she clearly isn't suitable, end of and the confidence the publc have in their findings may well end up being questioned by her remaining in post.

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

So who else is on the panel?Can you be sure that they are appropriate for the job?

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

No I can't be sure, well not as sure as I am that this woman is inappropriate for the job, how about a serving judge leading it rather than a retired one and if who ever is picked to lead it proves to be just as inappropriate, guess what, we can get rid of them to until we find some one who is up to it. Not really sure why you're sticking up for this woman or demanding the names of replacements for her from people who aren't involved in the selection process, seems a rather pointless, speculative exercise to me.

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

I'm wondering if ANYONE will be considered untainted by Whitehall.

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

Considering who appoints them there will always be a degree of taintedness, some like the baroness are more tainted than others though imo.

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

Oh dear.

Claims surface in the Sunday People that Margaret Thatcher personally "covered up child abuse allegations against senior ministers".

And a whistleblower claims he "supplied underage rent boys for Thatchers ministers".

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

There was a suggestion by a columnist in my red top that a senior police officer from the USA might be an untainted choice. Interesting...

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

What about Baroness Helena Kennedy
or even going outside the British establishment altogether and asking a senior legal figure from Australia or Canada ,they would be outside the British establishment and somewhat familiar with our legal system

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

Lawls a devout roman catholic - goes beyond parody that suggestion.

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

I can't find anything that suggests she's a devout Catholic ,care to share ?

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

Excellent idea, heap some of the blame on to people who are no longer around to give their version of events.

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

I think as they're investigating this it will emerge that many of those alleged to be involved are dead unfortunately.

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

That's more than likely to be true but also presents excellent opportunities to 'bury' allegations and blame whether true or not.

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

It seems to have worked ok so far with Savile.

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

Interestingly enough, today this on the BBC

When the pope stops covering these things up, yet governments are....times have definitely changed.

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

Not difficult to figure out who the "rising star" was.... LINK ;)

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

The problem there is he's admitting how many are paedophiles - that is probably in line with the rest of the populace - not how many then participated in covering it up.

---------- Post added at 02:18 ---------- Previous post was at 02:06 ----------

its in your link

also interstingly

Ollie at his finest :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_hBnSkQZCQ

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

And rightly so.

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

Really anyone who is in the frame to run this is part of 'the establishment'

Time to get a foreigner in? They were keen on Bill Bratton getting the Met Commisioner job, how about him?

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

I don't think that the fact she is part of the establishment is actually the problem. I think the fact that she was related to a person who may well have been involved in any cover up would be counted as a potential conflict of interest though.

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

It says her family is devout ,in fact the link states that " Kennedy still regularly attends Mass and professes that her Catholicism "remains very much part of who I am", even though she eschews its more traditional values".

Don't see why being Catholic should be a problem anyway

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

And.....they're off!

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

With the Pontif admitting that 2% of Catholic priests ARE paedophiles the Roman church or those associated with it by appointment or worship should not be allowed anywhere near this enquiry

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

This inquiry is meant to determine if MP's swept abuse under the carpet ,nothing to do with Catholic priests or Catholicism

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

But if the investigator has relations to another tainted institution then the suspicion remains of whitewash or at least a lack of vigour.

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

We could go on like that forever though and never find someone suitable .

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

Such is the prevailing (and growing) attitude of suspicion that we are going to find it increasingly hard to find people willing to subject their lives to public scrutiny, put their reputations on the line and offer their services/support to worthy causes. We shouldn't let the actions, however awful, of a minority of powerful (and not so powerful) people destroy all public trust and result in a creeping form of McCarthyism which only serves to unduly restrict the lives of and options open to children and other vulnerable people.

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

Which is why looking abroad to other English related countries for suitable candidates is IMHO the correct course of action.

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

I agree ,i suggested Australia or Canada mainly because their legal system isn't that far removed from ours

---------- Post added at 19:10 ---------- Previous post was at 19:01 ----------

Unfortunately given the spate of scandals from our ruling elite i fear that public trust of our leaders is already a thing of the past .The question is how do we get it back ,we need to trust our politicians and leaders or society simply stops working so if it is found that MP's swept abuse under the carpet then it will be really bad for todays government because it will be really hard to accept that the same abuse isn't still happening

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

Is she a priest or more importantly one of the 2%, if we're going to go down this path we will find it hard to find someone as we'll be eliminating anyone who was in the scouts next or likes listening to the radio at this rate.

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

Notwithstanding the fact that some terrible things have gone on, there needs to be some perspective applied to this situation. I reckon it's a very small minority who've engaged in these activities and it isn't going to do anyone any good if we all start doubting the motives and trustworthiness of everyone in positions of power or control whether they be politicians or care home staff.

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

completely agree .

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

She is going because she either knows someone on the list or being involved will cause her problems along the line due to who is friends with who. There will be people with powerful connections involved no doubt and pressure will be applied...

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...t-reveals.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...shire-28939089

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

Terrifying.

Just like the fear of offending some group or other led to extremism (e.g. Abu Hamza) being openly practiced and tolerated and look where we are now! Remind me whose bright idea all this was again?... :rolleyes:

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

Not even slightly surprising, and also a good indication of why these Asian sex gangs keep popping up.

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

I see the council leader has already taken responsibility and stepped down.

Given the scathing nature of this report and the serious shortcomings of many of the professionals directly involved, what form of 'taking responsibility' is sufficient? I'm hoping that all those who've been shown to have let these vulnerable children down are going to be made accountable and that doesn't mean retiring early with their pension to save further embarrassment.

Following the costly Sharon Shoesmith debacle (a substantial payout resulting from an "intrinsically unfair and unlawful" dismissal by Labour's Childrens Secretary Ed Balls*) let's just hope that any resulting disciplinary action is handled rather more professionally and effectively than he managed.

* Baby P boss Sharon Shoesmith secures £680,000 payout

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

All part of rich, multicultural Britain.

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

Yes it's great having so much more choice about who we're attacked, murdered and maimed by isn't it. Once upon a time if you wanted to be blown to smithereens whilst out shopping with the kids the IRA had a virtual monopoly. Now there are folks from around the globe offering all manner of options for an untimely death in the UK...

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

Indeed, any sackings should be done properly and not as a result of political "accountability" (which is not the same as actual accountability) and the need to give the papers a good headline for the early edition.

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

Didn't Nick Griffin try to speak out about this many years ago? Oh yeah, he almost went to prison for it.

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

Even a broken clock is right twice a day..... ;)

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

Here is the actual report.

http://www.rotherham.gov.uk/download...e_in_rotherham

It makes horrific reading, where denial at the extent of the problem, and bureaucracy and lack of resources to cope with the amount of cases seems to have over-ridden the childrens' needs.

From page 36

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

This is indicative of just how screwed up the system has become. :mad:

The whole thing is utterly horrifying and if things don't change for the better after this nightmare they never will.

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

For as long as authorities consider 'community cohesion' more important than the safety of children, these people will continue their crimes with little hiderance.

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

Political correctness has become a cancer in our society.

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

So has a lot of people.

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

The police commissioner resigned yet? If there was one thing this post would be good for this is it but those chocolate fireguards couldn't even get that right

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

Police Commissioners haven't been around long enough to have stopped this.
That is the reason for the criticism of him.

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

See the bigger picture, he knew there was a problem and was promoted to a position where he could do something about it and didn't, that's the reason for the criticism

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

Action was already in progress. Convictions happened in 2010. Being a Police Commissioner had little to do with it.

Why did Labour think he was a good/suitable candidate for Police Commissioner?

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

If it's irrelevant why not leave him in post now, he's no longer anything to do with childrens services

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

There's one main reason why this abuse was overlooked and it's because the protection of these children was deemed less important than the socio-political aims and obsessions of those in charge. For too long we've been subjected to an environment in which anything said/done to contradict official policy with respect to race/religion/culture etc. is akin to heresy. That's the root of this problem and until it's tackled little will change.

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

Agreed. if they were white it would have been investigated. and if there was nothing there then it would be sorry for the inconvenience.

but because we're PC mad. too scared of offending people (and these people know we are. and they use that fact to do what they want to do) these children were ignored.

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

They were NOT "too scared of offending people". The reports state they did not want to be accused of racism (which is different from a fear of causing offence) and also they felt naming the suspects as Asian would have increased the chances of groups like the BNP moving in to the area and causing trouble.

Not saying I think any of these reason are acceptable but if you're going to have a go at someone at least make it for the right reasons.

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

They were too scared of offending people. because of their race.
the two go together.
otherwise someone who is the subject of racism can't be offended.

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

No. They were worried about other people (regardless of race) accusing them of being racist.

There are no reports to date about the authorities saying they were afraid of "offending" anyone.

Re: Child abuse 'may well have been' covered up - Norman Tebbit
 

With such a serious thing they're hardly likely to say the reason all those children suffered is because we didn't want to come across as impolite (offensive) by investigating at an early stage. racism is stronger. and helps justify their incompetence. but initially it was all down to not wanting to offend.

A fat person that's suspected of eating all the pies and is undergoing an investigation. gets offended.
not a victim of racism. regardless of race.