Boris buys water cannon for London
 

Approval has been given for the Metropolitan Police to purchase three water cannon for London.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-27781673

How very thrifty.

Not sure how useful they'll be though...

Re: Boris buys water cannon for London
 

Can't wait for the stoodents to kick off again :D

Re: Boris buys water cannon for London
 

Perhaps he'll get them loaded up with hot water and shampoo. That ought to scare some of them off... :D

Re: Boris buys water cannon for London
 

wouldn't that be classed as cruel and unusual punishment :erm:

Re: Boris buys water cannon for London
 

There'll probably be a human rights lawyer somewhere who'll argue that, yes... :rolleyes:

:)

Re: Boris buys water cannon for London
 

good call.... they would've been good use for some of the 2012 Riot's Fires,imo.

Re: Boris buys water cannon for London
 

I can't wait until it next kicks off in London. That'll be good telly. :D

Re: Boris buys water cannon for London
 

People mostly demonstrate in summer and we usually have a water shortage and hosepipe ban in the SouthEast, so hopefully they will be empty :D

I think this shows that governments are aware of increasing unrest at authority. Or they plan on doing lots more nasty things that they know will cause protests. If only they spent the money on fixing the cause of problems rather than weapons to beat down those speaking out. The Croydon riots wouldn't have happened for example without the immigration problem.

At least we can trust Boris to save Londoners some money. Ken Livingstone would have paid top dollar to a communist country to buy them instead.

Re: Boris buys water cannon for London
 

A spokesman said: "Following learning from the riots of 2011, the [Met] requested that water cannon be made available to address a gap in public order tactics, allowing us to more effectively and safely tackle the most extreme disorder.


following learning from the riots it might have been a better idea not to shoot people and manhandle young girls which seems to have been what started it all

Re: Boris buys water cannon for London
 

hopefully Gary will be along shortly to give us a date for all the 'kicking off' :)

Re: Boris buys water cannon for London
 

Is it just me or does something not add up here?

3 x 30,000 GBP does not equal 218,000 GBP :confused:

Re: Boris buys water cannon for London
 

I can understand 1, or even 2, but 3?

Re: Boris buys water cannon for London
 

there filling them with perrier water

Re: Boris buys water cannon for London
 

That was just the spark to the fuel that was already there and used as an excuse. If the shooting hadn't happened then something else would have happened not to long after which would have caused the riots. The shooting did allow a few gangs to put aside their differences and riot/loot together though.

Re: Boris buys water cannon for London
 

No doubt there are additional costs for transport, refitting etc.

Re: Boris buys water cannon for London
 

Even so, it means each cost 70k to the taxpayer, more than double the figure he said. Makes me wonder why he didn't just say 70k when it still looks good against the 870k figure. Boris is pretty down to earth with most stuff but just shows that politicians can't help bending the truth :p:

Re: Boris buys water cannon for London
 

To be fair to the guy we only know what the media has reported of what he said and I dare say all the figures are clearly explained somewhere*. The figure quoted in the media for overall savings takes into account the extra costs so I don't think it's entirely unreasonable to say the devices were bought for £30k each as it's obvious there will be other expenses on top of that given they're coming from Germany and will need to be adapted.

*Here in fact:

https://www.london.gov.uk/sites/defa...annon%20_0.pdf

5 Financial Comments
5.1 In accordance with MOPACs responsibility to deliver an efficient and effective police force and
secure value for money and the MOPAC Chief Finance Officer’s fiduciary responsibility to local
taxpayers the MPS have negotiated an in principle agreement to purchase three used Wasserwerfer
9000 water cannon from the German Federal Police at a cost of £30,435 each, or £91,305 in total
(€105,000 based on an exchange rate of €1 .15±1 .00).
5.2 Costs for transportation and refitting the vehicles to make them fit for purpose far London, and to
meet rigorous safety standards, are £42,300 per device, or £126,900 in total.
5.3 In comparison, new water cannon cost around £870,000, meaning that for each German device
purchased MOPAC avoid costs of approximately 097,000 or £2,391,000 in total.

Re: Boris buys water cannon for London
 

I want to know how a water cannon needs refurbished after we buy them ,me thinks the Germans saw Boris coming

Re: Boris buys water cannon for London
 

They're second hand and need to be adapted to meet UK regulations evidently.

Re: Boris buys water cannon for London
 

I have no idea if this is a acceptable cost for water cannons although it's the kind of thing that Livingstone would have been pilloried for and accused of wasting public money.

Re: Boris buys water cannon for London
 

Ken would probably have brought them for a million each. Then brought 10 of them. Then done a deal on top that tied us in to only buying fuel from one supplier at an inflated price, for the first 3 years.

Re: Boris buys water cannon for London
 

They were on about Rubber bullets also.

Why not just pea shooters?

Re: Boris buys water cannon for London
 

Maybe. Although the Venezuelan fuel deal was about cheap oil for buses it just so happens that Venezuela isn't exactly the most ethical supplier (or rather their government wasn't) although I am never quite sure where other parties found the moral authority when it comes to deal with dodgy people to secure cheap(er) energy.

I actually think both mayors were pretty good. Livingstone got the Olympics, helped introduce the Oyster Card, flat rate fares for London buses and crossrail. Boris kept the Olympic flag flying and has introduced the excellent new buses as well as continuing the support for Crossrail and moving Crossrail 2 along.

It's just that a deal like this isn't similar to what Livingstone was pilloried for. Not to mention the colossal waste of money that was the Emirates Sky Line. So I am not quite sure why the Livingstone is the one everyone said wasted money and Boris isn't. The Boris Bikes aren't doing great either.

Re: Boris buys water cannon for London
 

Ah well Boris, you reap what you sow and watering the seeds is only going to make things worse.

Peasants eh. If you can't beat 'em, soak 'em.

Re: Boris buys water cannon for London
 

I suppose it would have been far easier to let gangsters drive about London with weapons rather than trying to deal with it. :dozey:

Re: Boris buys water cannon for London
 

Expecting more riots in the future! or an expensive way of watering the hanging baskets.

Re: Boris buys water cannon for London
 

http://l-bc.co/7BsxrZ

Can't wait to see the Boris version of this picture.

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2014/06/22.jpg

Re: Boris buys water cannon for London
 

Take that you UKIP voter.

Re: Boris buys water cannon for London
 

Typically, being a Labour man, Red Ken has no real concept of prudence. He'd probably have got them from Venezula subject to ludicrously onerous and expensive long term fuel/maintenance contracts a bit like those PFI schemes his party proliferated...

Re: Boris buys water cannon for London
 

This is an extremely smart move.

Have to keep the plebs in order while banks and executives steal their money and that which would be paying for their social services.

Re: Boris buys water cannon for London
 

That's what people like about Boris, not afraid to go the extra mile. No other politician would agree to this.

The police are the ones that requested water canon's, Boris just got us a cheaper deal on getting them.

Looking forward to seeing the police fail later when it comes to the black cab protest. Don't agree with the black cabbies, they just want to continue their monopoly of high prices but the fact the police are still trying to control every element of all protests annoys me. First they try and get you to meet with them so they can try and tell you what they want you to do, so organisers have stopped agreeing to meet them. Now they are imposing restrictions based on the fact protesters didn't meet with them.

The more they do this stuff, the more people will ignore them and refuse to talk with the police beforehand. Gonna need a lot more than three water cannons at the rate they are ****ing people off.

Re: Boris buys water cannon for London
 

38 Degrees member Neal has started a petition demanding that Theresa refuses to lift the ban on water cannons. If we can show there’s enough public opposition to the plans, it could be enough to encourage Theresa to defy David and Boris and keep the machines out of the police’s hands.

What do you think? You can sign Neal’s petition to keep the ban on the cannons here:
https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/water-cannons

He says: “The use of water cannon would be a violent and excessive use of force to combat protests on the streets of the UK. The right to protest is one of the most important aspects of our free and open democracy and I believe that the threat of this weapon will be an inhibitor to people of all ages from exercising that right.“

We have seen all too frequently instances of police abusing their power, and using unnecessary force to break up protests. Be it the death of Ian Tomlinson, or the assault on anti-fracking campaigner Sean O'Donnell, elements of the police force would prefer to use violence and aggression to silence peaceful protest.” [3]

Can you sign Neal’s petition and demand that Theresa keeps the cannons off our streets?
https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/water-cannons

Neal started his petition on Campaigns by You, part of the 38 Degrees website where anyone can start a petition to try and make the UK a fairer, more democratic and peaceful place to live. If there’s an issue close to your heart, it takes just a few minutes to get your campaign off the ground. [4]

Re: Boris buys water cannon for London
 

Is there a petition to allow the use of live ammo on masked, violent protestors?

I'd sign that before the UK Police are denied access to a tool used by most other European forces. If the UK are so tough on protestors why do so many European crusties come here rather than risking their native Police forces response to protests getting out of hand.

Re: Boris buys water cannon for London
 

you could start one its still a free country .

i have just signed the get rid petition -power to the people .

Re: Boris buys water cannon for London
 

We can't trust the police to make the determination if a masked or unmasked person is violent or not, yet alone if they are a protester or not. The Ian Tomlinson is a prime example.

Our right to protest is slowly being eroded by the police and needs to be reversed. It's solely the police presence at some events which caused them get out of hand.

Re: Boris buys water cannon for London
 

Whilst keeping the ban in place so people can't demonstrate within a thousand yards of parliament, that's democracy for you

Now l know Boris is mad
 

http://www.itv.com/news/london/story...-water-cannon/

The Metroplotan Police is facing cutbacks, and yet Boris Johnson is wasting money on buying Water Cannons for London Streets.

This is NOT a foreign country where we face riots every week. With all that money he is wasting on these cannons. He can put more coppers on the street.

To me it doesn't make sense.:(

Re: Now l know Boris is mad
 

Maybe Boris and Dave know something we don't.

like the summer's here. and there might be a few riots coming up?

Re: Now l know Boris is mad
 

They want to save the plebs the effort of stealing bottles of water, and the courts the time in sentencing them to long spells in prison for it while bankers and corporate criminals get nothing by blasting them with it at high pressure.

Re: Now l know Boris is mad
 

A boy and his toys..;)

---------- Post added at 11:17 ---------- Previous post was at 11:13 ----------

Two threads merged on identical topic.Please check that a topic has not been posted already.

Re: Now l know Boris is mad
 

Then again it wasn't that long ago that he was saying stuff like this:

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/35284526-post95.html

So now we're getting water cannon in London, Arthur's suddenly against the idea...

:rolleyes:

Re: Now l know Boris is mad
 

Arthur's opinion is always the opposite of whatever the Tories are saying or doing. As long as Boris doesn't have a fleet of mobile water cannon, Arthur thinks they're a great idea. As soon as Boris acquires a fleet of mobile water cannon, Arthur thinks they're a waste of money.

Re: Boris buys water cannon for London
 

On second thoughts it might be good if they get them in to action soon. With this hot weather it would be tempting to start a riot just to have the police on call to cool you down with some refreshing water fun :)

---------- Post added at 19:17 ---------- Previous post was at 19:13 ----------

The control they are trying to exert over protesters is getting to the point where it will become counter productive and people will fighter harder against that control.

Anyway, the police can't stop you protesting in front of parliament if they don't know you are going to do it. That's why you ignore them now when they ask organisers to speak to them beforehand. They may be able to blast you with water cannons now but that is only going to turn peaceful protests violent.

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2014/06/18.jpg

Re: Boris buys water cannon for London
 

The wicked witch of Westminster has decided to chicken out of making a decision until after the election. Hopefully no riots break out before then.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...-by-met-police

Re: Boris buys water cannon for London
 

So they have bought it without a decision on whether they can even use it?

Re: Boris buys water cannon for London
 

well if they do the police can pee on them :)

Re: Boris buys water cannon for London
 

When they get them, they should fill them with soapy water. The very threat of a wash should see most of the usual suspects off the streets in a flash.

Re: Boris buys water cannon for London
 

They were on a one time never to be repeated deal but only if they bought them immediately. And they'd throw in free delivery.

Re: Boris buys water cannon for London
 

Looks like any potential rioters will be safe from getting a Met supplied wash.

Re: Boris buys water cannon for London
 

Boris can add water cannons to the SkyLine thing as wastes of money then.

Re: Boris buys water cannon for London
 

Want to use the cannons on the Tory side of the commons - this will help get rid of the **** that has accumulated there.;)

Re: Boris buys water cannon for London
 

He really should have known better than to think something used all over Europe and in other parts of the UK would be acceptable for use in England and Wales.

It's only the Police, Mayor and former Policing ministers who want them and the most useless Home Secretary in living memory who doesn't. Hey I suppose she knows best, after all the current options for dealing with riots (baton strikes, shields and AEP rounds) are all perfectly safe...

It's almost like she wants the Police to fail.

Re: Boris buys water cannon for London
 

Well they might get 'hurt' God forbid. People are made of far tougher stuff in Northern Ireland you know... :rolleyes:

The police can, I believe, still seek permission to use them should the situation arise and it'll be up to the Home Secretary to then decide again. If the re are large scale riots and London streets are on fire I think it'll be a brave politician who says 'no' to any such request and would, I suspect, be the end of her...

Re: Boris buys water cannon for London
 

Quite a few police forces have already said they didn't want them http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2...o-water-cannon

Re: Boris buys water cannon for London
 

PCC's. Who have no say in operational Policing are saying they wouldn't want them.

Re: Boris buys water cannon for London
 

Well my police chief also says no.


---------- Post added at 16:05 ---------- Previous post was at 15:59 ----------

And it doesn't look like Merseyside Police Chief would want it either

http://www.merseysidepcc.info/36/sec.../35/pccs_urge_

Re: Boris buys water cannon for London
 

Well I don't suppose Boris was planning to send them anywhere else. ;)

Re: Boris buys water cannon for London
 

Except my understanding is that the decision would applies to the whole of England and Wales - which at present London is still a part of.

Re: Boris buys water cannon for London
 

Yes but to my knowledge there aren't any others in England or Wales so it's a moot point unless Boris wants to lend them or some are shipped in from NI. ;)

I dare say some political capital is being made over the Irish Sea about how Westminster feels it's ok to use 'dangerous' water cannon there but not in England and Wales.

Re: Boris buys water cannon for London
 

Mutual aid is a wonderful thing. The last time the natives got a bit riot-y it wasn't just the Met who were on the streets. That Relationship works both ways.

If it kicks off later this year expect to see this decision reversed sharpish, I'm not entirely convinced it wasn't taken to make Boris look foolish and dent his chances of taking the top job instead of a purely public interest decision, water cannon are far less likely to cause injury than the current options available.

Re: Boris buys water cannon for London
 

Same when the miners were on strike oop norf. Cops drafted in from all over the place.

I too think there's some politicking going on here but I may be being too cynical... ;)

Re: Boris buys water cannon for London
 

So. One evil Tory says London should have water cannon. Another evil Tory says it shouldn't. Poor Arthur now has no choice but to agree with one evil Tory or another.

Which one is it to be, Arthur? Which Tory do you agree with: Johnson or May?

:D

Re: Boris buys water cannon for London
 

Presumably the one that eats the least babys. :D

Re: Boris buys water cannon for London
 

Re: Boris buys water cannon for London
 

He looks much more like a LibDem to me.... :D

Re: Boris buys water cannon for London
 

Can't be. People like him.

Re: Boris buys water cannon for London
 

Bozo could always just use them anyway, other laws don't apply to him after all

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33681509

Re: Boris buys water cannon for London
 

"Mr Johnson's official spokesman said: "The mayor wishes to apologise for offering his wife a short-lived lift on the back of his bike!
"He was unaware that he was apparently in contravention of the Road and Traffic Act.""

So here we have one of the country's main advocates for cycling admitting he is unaware of laws applicable to cyclists!!! The mind boggles but it does give us a view of the major issue surrounding cyclists and road safety, and that is cyclists can take to the road completely clueless with regard to riding safely.

Maybe we should send him a copy of the Highway Code then send him on a Cycling Proficiency Test!

Re: Boris buys water cannon for London
 

wouldn't hurt to send a copy to his wife as well ,after all she is a barrister and should have known better