M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

Daily Mail Link


Unbelievable....

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

Don't shop there and don't intend to.

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

Stupid decision, they are making a rod for their own back when other religions ask for special treatment.
i expect we'll see M&S in court for refusing someone else's request in the future.

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

PC gone mad I despair

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

This is just a ploy by M&S to get loads of people to go in and buy loads of pork and alcohol.

But a couple of things.
M&S have kept the existing race war going. if there wasn't one, then they've started one.
they've raised peoples awareness of being selective as to which race/religion/skin colour serves them.

so you're in the queue with some pork and alcohol. does the white person have to come over and take over? or is it just that the white person comes over to physically handle the products?

Good Old Britain. never lets you down.

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

I wonder how far this will be taken - ok ham & vodka are easy to identify - but how about trifle, is the jelly made from pork gelatine? Does the vanilla essence in the custard contain alcohol?

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

If I encountered such a refusal to serve me they'd find me abandoning all my shopping on the counter. I wouldn't be waiting for someone else to put themselves out to come and serve me.

The better idea would be for the shop to move such people to non public facing roles, such as warehouse / shelf filling, if they can't do the checkout job.

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

they can't do that that would be seen as discriminatory( although that is what they should be doing removing them well you catch my drift)

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

I think there's a chance that they'll have a sign up saying "No pork or alcohol will be served at this checkout"

it'll save a lot of trouble when Xmas comes.

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

We can't do anything anymore. That's the problem. Jewish people in the UK, not a word about them, no fuss and no problem. In fact no other religion causes as many problems in this country than Islam. You can't pick up a paper without reading about how a Muslim has such a hard life in the UK.

You add this on top of a dodgy Bulgarian telling us what our country can and can't do then you'll see the stick is firmly up our...

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

This is off topic but a similar story.

You try and find any Harry Potter stuff in The Entertainer, apparently the owner is relegious and won't it because its wizardry.

But he sells Star Wars stuff (which could be describe a wizardy), and toy guns and swords.

Total double standards, that why I will not shop there.

But as to M&S they are struggling and come out with this BS, and you can find all stuff cheaper elsewhere.

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

Absolutely.

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

Here's a bit from the Independent on the same story....

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...l-9020982.html

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

Islam does not forbid the handling of food and drink that is "haram" (dirty). It only forbids the consumption of such things.

A few years ago a "veiled woman" started screaming in our local Tesco because someone had put a pack of pork chops on the same checkout she was using. She got nothing but looks of disgust and despair.

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

They are employed to serve customs with all that M&S sell.

If they refuse then give them the sack.

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

Most Muslim's would probably go ahead and put it through the checkout anyway, this will just be M&S covering their backs in case anyone tries to make a few quid out of them in court in the future.

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

so we should really worry about the ones that wont ;)

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

Can you only be muslim if you are not white ??

I add no idea that religious beliefs are based on your colour

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

M&S will reverse this idea once they start to lose money.

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

You can be a Muslim if you're not white, yes. I'm white and I'm a Muslim.

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

Only on your census form Gary.

---------- Post added at 21:00 ---------- Previous post was at 20:59 ----------

I'd do the same

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

Are non Islam folk going to get a pay rise for having to do the extra work?

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

You couldn't describe them as being human and from this planet though, that's if the owner even considered it. I wonder if his shops sell witches outfits at Halloween?

---------- Post added at 21:03 ---------- Previous post was at 21:01 ----------

I don't think I'd be happy to spend all that time queuing only to be refused, there may well be a scene

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

So how are customers meant to know which checkouts are operated by Muslims ? I'm sorry i'm usually quite tolerant of these types of ideas but this one is the most stupid idea in the history of stupid ideas .It will actually encourage racism and bigotry

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

You never know. that might be the idea.

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

thin end of the wedge.

Theoretically could a catholic refuse to sell condoms, if M&S sell condoms that is.

And all the other religious exemptions that there are out there.

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

I can't stand any type of religion, especially the type that gets in the way of me having a bloody good Christmas! :D

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

If this is a sign of the insanity of the people running M&S, then its no wonder its going downhill financially. Complete muppets.

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

Same here

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

Well they operate shops which means we can all easily show our view on this by taking our custom elsewhere plenty of cheaper alternatives. Personally I think if you apply for a job at a shop or supermarket you shouldn't get to pick or choose the aspect of the job you will or won't do and anything that might affect your ability to serve the public gets left at the door start of your shift. Has to be remembered of course that so far this is a managerial dictate we don't know if any Islamic staff have made an issue out of this. If this is a sign of things to come though this country is in even bigger trouble then many of us thought it already was.

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

Why would they?

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

Looks like they are backtracking according to the BBC. Surprise surprise!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25488259

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

Many Catholics still may object to it, whatever the pope says.

Anyway it was a hypothetical question, aimed at whether the same criteria would be applied to other religions that had belief based objections or whether Islam was a special case.

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

I expected this as i am sure it will hit there sales.

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

It doesn't look like they're backtracking to me. It looks like it was a mistake and the story has been misinterpreted. It seems that if a member of staff has a religious issue such as working Saturdays if they're Jewish or handling pork if they're Muslim then M&S will give them either hours or roles that prevent them from infringing their religious beliefs. So M&S wouldn't make Muslim staff serve alcohol or pork but they wouldn't then put them on the till to refuse customers but will instead move them to a department where the issue won't crop up...

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

It's not a special case for Islam - as posted on the first page of this thread, from a link to the Telegraph.

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

That's why the story has broke ,because an Islamic checkout woman refused to handle a bottle of Champagne and the customer had to wait for another till to become available

http://news.sky.com/story/1186301/m-...lcohol-refusal

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

Why didn't another staff member just 'handle' the bottle for her? :confused:

When I'm served alcohol in a shop by an under 18 year old they just call a supervisor over to authorise the sale. Perhaps that's too simple a concept for some religious folks...

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

I have no idea but it seems to me that in an attempt to please everyone M&S have tied themselves up in all sorts of knots .

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

Poor customer service..Shame on you M&S.

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

I can no longer shop at M&S, as part of my religion I'm not allowed to listen to bull.... When M&S provide bull free isle's for my religion then I will resume my business with them. It's completely against atheism.

When they all turn around and refuse to live in the UK because it does not bow down to Sharia Law... that will be a great day. Can't ever see that happening funnily enough. Muslims can't handle pork because it's a filthy animal or something right? Just change it to a filthier Animal like Jimmy Saville, problem solves itself.

I'm sad M&S are apologising over this, the right thing to do in modern day Britain would be to bow down to any demands a Muslim makes and remove pork from all of your stores nationwide. That would do us the favour of speeding up the meltdown.

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

So, you refuse to shop somewhere where they do not force staff to sell things that they may find offensive (for whatever reason)?

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

Here's Gola island. It's been bull free for as long as I or anyone can remember.
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2013/12/5.jpg

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

The staff members in question wouldn't get on very well at 'call me halal', they're quite happy to sell me a lump of ham, booze and a lottery ticket at any given time. How comes they can do it and tens of thousands of.pakistani shop keepers manage the same but these two attention seekers can't?

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

Frankly I would have just left and gone elsewhere.Not because I've anything against religious beliefs but because I refuse to have my time wasted..

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

Customers provide profits for shops don't they? If these people don't want to serve customers they should be sacked, irrespective of their beliefs. There is far too much of this political nonsense going on nowadays. :mad:

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

I didn't say I thought the staff were right to be offended, merely that they have the right to be offended. Massive difference..

How many trips to different shops finding one that will serve you would it take to crack you?

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

Since it appears to have happened in one shop out of hundreds of thousands, that scenario is unlikely....

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

But the scenario has happened.
the question is how many shops would it take to crack you and blame religious beliefs, and not just a bit of time wasting. when in each shop they were part of this psychological test of mine?

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

The one in hundreds of thousand scenario happened - you are positing a much more unlikely scenario, where it happens multiple times.

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

I bet you're no fun at Xmas when the unlikely questions out the crackers get read out.

do you ever play pretend?

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

When we were 5 years old yes.Makes me wonder just how old you are.;)

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

Back to the topic please.

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

If they'd chosen a profession where they aren't surrounded by such products they probably would have that right but they didn't and m&s are so scared of being labelled some sort if 'ism' they won't tell them to shove of.

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

Personally you are employed to do a job.

You are under contract to do what the job requires. you cannot get a job a lifesaver in a pool and refuse to enter the water for whatever reason you chose.

At the end of the day if you are working on a til you swipe the good through and take payment end of, if you object to whatever somebody else is buy look for another job.

But I reckon that a non management worker on a store gets paid more money for tills than shop floor or warehouse.

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

I was outraged reading this story, she should have been sacked or should not have taken the job in the first place, I remember my dad, me and my mum went a brought a TV and the sales rep at the end refused to shake my mums hand because he was a Muslim and we didn't think at the time but I wish now my dad would have told him to sick the TV where the sun don't shine, also reminds me of the Muslim who tried to cop a few quid when the police force got him to serve pork.
As long as they don't eat that OK in Islam but some Muslims take it too far, I just hope people wake up and stand up to these Muslims that just want to cause issues.

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

I don't really see the big deal. It seems it was just a mistake on the part of M&S, who placed a member of staff in an unsuitable role.

If a shop really did have a policy where a staff member could decide not to serve me based on their own beliefs, whatever those beliefs may be, then I would boycott it out of principle alone, but that doesn't appear to have been the case here.

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

At the end of the day this is all BS, I've worked with people that states they cannot eat/drink certain food, but jet I've worked with somebody who would drink like a fish, and eat during daylight hours when she should have been fasting.

Another Jewish guy would eat and enjoy Bacon sarnies.

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

In that case I don't have an issue with it, as long as it is applied fairly across the board.

M&S obviously made a cock up by putting the Muslim on a checkout, when they should have been in the flower arranging section.

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

So based on your 2 anecdotes, all religious people are hypocrites?

I'm an atheist, in fact, I'd say I'm an anti-theist as I dislike religion for a number of reasons, but while religion exists - which is always, as far as we are concerned - it's better if we try and make sure we all get along. This story involves 1 shopper who was told by 1 Muslim - who was very apologetic according to the shopper - that someone else would have to serve them, and it took place in 1 store, yet based on some of the comments I've read on the web about this, you would think that Sharia is about to come into effect across the whole of the UK. The way the story was reported on some sites is to blame for that, but M&S have said that it was a mistake and that they have a policy of allocating appropriate roles to religious people that failed on this occasion. That should be the end of the matter. I'll leave the outrage to the Daily Mail readers, but this really isn't something worth getting even mildly concerned about.

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

What meat do you think Israels 'special chicken' is...

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

One major difference: When you are a lifeguard at a pool, it is expected that you will be required to enter the water. When you work for M&S, the sheer range of other products they sell means that the chances are you won't be working with alcohol.

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

I only like serving British white people can I have a sign up if I get a job working on a till because it's my belief.

Totally stupid in my opinion

---------- Post added at 10:43 ---------- Previous post was at 10:38 ----------


Thing is this might have been 1 store 1 person and the while thing has probably being blown out of proportion but in the same sense it only takes 1 person to start a war.

This could be the start of something to come in the future as I said it only takes 1 person.

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

just look at Gavrilo Princip

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

Not read most of the thread but from my experience in the past muslim till workers have just put a plastic bag over their hands or a pair of vinyl gloves when handling pork items from the butcher counter in the major supermarkets.. Islam prohibits them from touching the products and not the packaging so I don't see where the issue is ??

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

so white people are not Muslim?

You cant tell what religion a person is by just looking at them

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

Why does that remind me of a ginger dave... Adil Ray has a lot to answer for!!!

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

Why is it that 'posh shops always have this problem, the staff should be glad they have a job, I am sick and tired of all this religious stuff coming into shops where certain staff won't sell this or that.

IF you work for a shop, supermarket you are employed to do a job - full stop. If you dont like it then go and find another job.

I used to work in a plastic factory and had an had to interview several people - one guy was offered the job, but refused on the ground of cruelty - the problem was we supplied a fishing rod company with plastic handles - he turned it down as it was cruel to fish on the fishing rod using the plastic handle. Thats how stupid you can get.

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

When did M&S become a 'posh' shop?

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

I always thought it was.
my sister shops there too. and she wouldn't be seen dead shopping at Tesco.

---------- Post added at 14:40 ---------- Previous post was at 14:38 ----------

Exactly. so you just don't know whether the person at the checkout has got a problem with your sausages and brandy.

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

I checked what the policy of my employer is of this and if I've understood this correctly (I could be mistaken as I only had a quick glance) any special requirements an employee may have with regards to their faith (if they have one) are established before a job is offered. It is never used as a factor in deciding who to offer a job to however. If there are say 5 positions available in a store, one of them being on the tills then anyone with religious objections to handling alcohol is unlikely to be offered that one.

If someone has already been working for the company and goes on to take up a faith with 'restrictions' (for lack of a better word) then I assume they would be offered something on a different section - there are inter-department movements all the time for different reasons.

I disagree with the "If you don't want to do your job then leave" attitude - some stores are close to areas with high Muslim populations and having that sort of attitude is likely to drive customers away.

On the subject of this story I think it would be odd for M&S to put someone like that on the tills at a high-demand period such as Christmas though. Customers are usually stressed enough without being told they have to queue somewhere else once they get to the till.

---------- Post added at 15:41 ---------- Previous post was at 15:40 ----------

Showing your social class a bit there ;)

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

All this time he's been shopping at Aldi. now he's going to shop at M&S now he's heard it's a posh shop :)

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

When was this such a common problem that people became sick and tired of it ? it's the first time i've heard of it happening

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

To me if, you work in any store. Then you are employed to sell to customers, the products within that store.

Its like going for a butchers job that sells Halal meat. If you didn't like that, you wouldnt go there for a job would you.

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

That would be correct in this case if M&S only sold alcohol.

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

If I went for a job at an electrical store would they employ me if i said I would refuse to sell any Apple products?

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

I thought your black guy one was better :)

Is your disliking of Apple products down to your religious beliefs?

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

If you had a legally-recognised reason for that objection (such as part of a religion) then you'd have a case.

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

What about the not so obvious products that contain alcohol? Such as soups, trifles, medicine etc... I bet there's plenty of products they sell that contain something from a pig too.

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

If you mean ALL of the products in that store, then clearly M&S and a bunch of other employers disagree with you.

That's the problem with creating laws around unprovable beliefs though. If I invent my own religion that comes with its own set of rules, why is that any less valid then Islam or Christianity?

I can count the number of times I've been refused an item in a shop on religious grounds on the fingers of no hands. Who here has had it happen to them?

I'm sick and tired of people hiding their blatant Islamophobia behind faux outrage over a single incident that wasn't even in line with company policy, but that's just me. ;)

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

It's not about what is more or less 'valid', it's about what is recognised by law.

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

But why should all religions, including one that I invent right now, not be recognised in law when some religions already are? The answer to that is obvious - because it would be completely unworkable - but that only begs the question of whether any religious belief should be protected by law in the first place, given that the law itself only covers certain religions (in certain aspects) and is therefore, itself, discriminatory.

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

It's because some religions are recognised in law - some aren't. That doesn't necessarily make any of them any less 'valid'. Not saying I think that's right or wrong, just stating a fact.

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

Well it does make them less valid in the eyes of the law and therefore not religions.....as far as the law says :shrug:

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

"Valid" in terms of what they mean to people.

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

If you dont want to serve pork or alcohol then don't work there.
Simple.

It's a store. They sell stuff. Not happy to sell those products? Then get a job elswhere.

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

It's a bit more than that though. I work at Asda but I don't serve pork or alcohol, in fact I'm not even on the shop floor.

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

They were hired on the basis that they would not be asked to serve customers with certain products and the only reason that they were is because of a one-off failure in company policy. If you have any issue, surely it has to be with M&S and all of the other stores that have similar policies, not with the Muslim who politely refused to serve the customer.

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

Ah yes Richard Dawkins, that well-known champion of respect and tolerance.

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

Dawkins is intolerant of religious beliefs, because they are not based on anything that evidence can back up. If I said that aliens were behind 9/11, I would probably be laughed off the forums because I couldn't provide any evidence to back that claim up, but if I said that I believe man was made out of dust, woman out of man's rib, that we're all immortal and when I die I'll be up in Heaven with Elvis and 2Pac, people will say "yes, we must be tolerant of such beliefs" rather than saying "that's utter bollocks - there's no reason to believe that!".

The world would be a better place if people were taught how to think critically and be less tolerant of ********. That doesn't mean we have to be cruel to people though and force them out of a job just because they won't handle alcohol or pork, when they were hired on the basis that they would not have to do those things.

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

Respect and tolerance for religion has gone on for far too long, some of us are fed up of seeing what barbarism, stupidity and nonsense religion really is.

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

There is absolutely no reason to respect religious beliefs, in the same way that you wouldn't respect any grand claim that has zero evidence to back it up. The only reason people do respect them is either because they are religious themselves, because of societal norms/tradition, because of "safety in numbers", or because they're told that it's good to respect them, but none of those are good reasons to do it.

Take the claim, examine the evidence, come to a conclusion - just like you would with any other claim. Religion deserves no special "exemption status" in that respect.

Happy Christmas BTW. :D

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

lol The irony!

Dawkins is intolerant of something he disagrees with and wants other people to follow his views, hopefully at the sane time losing their own beliefs. If that's what flicks his switch then I'm happy for him but the very least he could do is acknowledge his hipocrisy.

Unlike normal tolerant people he is not happy for there to be room for all views and beliefs in the world - he wants religion removed from it. Nothing wrong with disagreeing with a religion but wanting it's complete removal is arrogance and ignorance personified.

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

Yes, all the very best to one and all. :)

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

I think your understanding of this is somewhat weak.

Dawkins = "Rationality! Scepticism! Critical thinking! Scientific method! Examine evidence!"

Religious = "What it says in this largely anonymous collection of scriptures is 100% fact and nothing can ever change that!"

If you think that both of those things are opposite sides of the same coin then do say so, because that means I'm wasting my time replying to you.

Explain to me why it's arrogant and ignorant.

If I make a grand claim to you without any evidence at all, but I say that you should believe it regardless because I know that I'm right - is that not the very height of intellectual arrogance? That's what theists do all the time! It's not what Dawkins has ever done though.

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

If you think Christianity dictates that everything it teaches is 100% fact then you have fallen at the very first hurdle of understanding what 'faith' means.

It is arrogant and ignorant because my beliefs do not impact on Dawkins' life at all yet he still wants me to lose my faith. And if you can demonstrate anywhere on this forum where I have told anyone what they should believe then you're a better man than I.

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

OK, that makes more sense. Company policies are to blame.

Re: M&S tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork
 

Proof of god.