UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/reli...eme-Court.html

More worrying is that this brings the religious hatred and discrimination laws into play.

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

They'll be classing football teams as religions next.

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

More worrying still is the Supreme Court's apparent willingness to change the law based on a panel of judge's opinions about society and its attitudes. If these have changed ,then it is for Parliament to legislate.

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

As far as I'm concerned they are still a cult.

Jedi'ism is next for becoming a recognised religion. I'm still a padawan so only have a few light side followers, need to convert a couple of dark siders me thinks!

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

I say let them get on with it.

I don't suppose the normal man on the street could care less whether somebody has classed this or anything as a 'religion'

I don't suppose the normal man on the street could care less what or who a religion is.

as long as it doesn't interfere with his life.

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

Scientology is not a religion it's a scam.............Oh wait..

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

The difference is the Catholic church doesn't have a history of taking legal action against those who say mean/critical things about it.

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

What was The Spanish Inquisition all about then?

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

A Monty Python bit?

Yeah ok but that was a long time ago, what's relevant is what they do now. Can't judge people by their predecessors.

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

If the followers want it to be a religion then It's as much a religion as any other.

It's not for others to decide.

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

What he said.

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

Much as I don't like Scientology, I agree with Pierre.

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

Not really because there are tax breaks and legal ramifications to being a religious organisation and I don't think it's reasonable for this to be awarded based on the will of an organisation or the people that follow it. Scientology charges it's followers for their sessions and auditing and it makes money.

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

Were there tax breaks when Jesus and Mohammed were knocking about?

---------- Post added at 23:41 ---------- Previous post was at 23:35 ----------

I nearly fell off my chair when i read that.

Spat my wine out and scared the cat.

What do you think the catholic and Anglican Church in the UK have been Doing for centuries.

Yes, look around the " not for profit" Vatican once in your life.

Never had a collection plate thrust upon you in church?

Do people not pay the Anglican Church land rent?

Organised religions are all money spinners, in that case Scientology is just carrying on a fine tradition

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

Clearly not - but there are now. And the ruling gives any organisation that wishes to call itself a religion the opportunity to claim them, denying money to the exchequer. IIRC it's business rates on premises that they are exempt from, which is money that is supposed to be shared out to local councils.

Previously there was a universally understood and accepted definition of what constituted a religion for all practical purposes. Now there isn't.

Emotional pressure has been used to a greater or lesser degree in different times and places, but the passing round of a collection plate is in no way the same as charging a fee for an auditing session just as you would be charged for a massage or an hour with a trendy psychiatrist. Scientology is by no means unique in its money spinning practices, but that doesn't make it any less pernicious.

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2013/12/12.png

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

You can be poor and attend church. You're not charged for attending a service and the collection plate is voluntary and it's donations wouldn't come near to paying the upkeep of the church you're in. The Catholic Church is pretty wealthy, I am actually not too sure when their wealth comes from, but I do know that it doesn't come from charging people for the basic purpose it provides. Which is why the Catholic Church is followed by some of the poorest people in the world and why Scientology appeals to rich Hollywood celebrities.

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

The Catholic church's wealth is ancient. A lot of it comes from the donations of wealthy nobles who paid the church to pray for their souls to speed them through purgatory and into heaven, or who paid for 'indulgences' - i.e. they paid the Pope to get him to forgive their sins. They also own a lot of land, which brings further income.

There is no doubt that the Roman church has had a thoroughly indecent attitude to money throughout a great deal of its history, however like the NHS it has always been free at the point of use. You could attend mass or confession without stumping up. The same is widely agreed not to be the case in Scientology.

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

Even if the Scientologists do charge their followers.

Their followers are still following them freely, and by their own choice.

I still don't see how it is any less a religion than any other.

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

Hmmm... I used to find those little old ladies with the collection plates really intimidating... :D

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

I follow Arsenal, it isn't a religion.

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

Not really an answer is it, if you can't think of a intelligent response, don't bother.

Do you go to a church to follow Arsenal?

Does Arsenal offer you a precise path leading to a complete and certain understanding of one’s true spiritual nature and one’s relationship to self, family, groups, Mankind, all life forms, the material universe, the spiritual universe and the Supreme Being?

Do Arsenal addresses the spirit—not the body or mind—and believes that Man is far more than a product of his environment, or his genes?

Do Arsenal comprises a body of knowledge which extends from certain fundamental truths.

Do Arsenal believe Man is an immortal spiritual being and that His experience extends well beyond a single lifetime, and that His capabilities are unlimited, even if not presently realized.

Do Arsenal further hold Man to be basically good, and that his spiritual salvation depends upon himself, his fellows and his attainment of brotherhood with the universe?

Is Arsenal not a dogmatic religion in which one is asked to accept anything on faith alone. On the contrary, one discovers for oneself that the principles of Scientology are true by applying its principles and observing or experiencing the results?

Is the ultimate goal of Arsenal true spiritual enlightenment and freedom for all?

Or, is it as I suspect, that Arsenal are a football team?

Also, how about answering by initial question, why isn't it a religion?

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

I can't see what other choice the judge had. He couldn't use logic so had be fair and unbiased.

If someone wants to believe in fairies, gods, aliens or jedi knights, then I can't see what separate the differences.

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

Pretty uncalled for. The point is that followers don't decide if something is a religion or not.

No. I go to a stadium. Scientologists don't go to a conventional church they tend to be buildings. As do a lot of Mormons and JWs.

You can get into a rabbit hole of philosophical debate here. People seek answers and a sense of order from religion but also from art, books, films and music. That people follow something or derive meaning from it doesn't mean it's a religion.

Anyway I don't care if followers decide it's a religion or not. People can call things what they want. What we're talking about is the state recognising it as a religion and therefore granting them the tax and legal advantages of a religion.

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

Football or any object/person of attention can have all the hallmarks of a religion. You attend places of "worship" with others of a like mind. You give money, time, attention. In some cases not following or declaring loyalty can lead to persecution. Some can see followers of others as being lesser, misguided, deceived or worse.

---

One of the points of the reformation was to remove the idea of buying indulgences so allowing those "giving" to the church to lessen or even bypass punishment. Grace alone. When we take offering at church it's made clear that the intention is that it's for regular attenders who don't give by other means to contribute to the running of the church not for visitors. And there is no preference to those who give more.

---
There is a worry that scientology can now claim tax breaks and the like as I can just see it being used as a means to eventually remove such status from other church groups. I know there are those even here who think that it should already be so but we can use the money to help run soup kitchens, food banks and the like as part of the normal function of the church.

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

I don't see the problem with defining Scientology as a religion any more than defining Buddism as a religion.As for the tax free status in the UK this may afford Scientology ,it is already exempt from VAT

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

Wenger's not a 'god' then?... ;)

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

Not until they win a trophy... he ain't.

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

Ridiculous answer. Who decides then?

Who decided Christianity, Islam, Hinduism etal are religions?

"conventional" define conventional. Does a church have to have a spire or a tower, or stained glass windows? Are you suggesting that Scientologists need to conform the Christianity stylelised version of a church.

A church is just a building.

I've been to a Hindu Temple in yorkshire that's in an old Terraced House. Does that not count as a temple?

A church is just a gathering place it can be anything and anywhere.

And the supreme court have ruled it is a religion.

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

But in the context of this discussion it is not a philosophical question, it is a legal one. Which organisations should be entitled to the privileges Parliament has set aside for religious groups? As for who should decide, well Parliament should. The supreme court should only be interpreting law, not making it, and it is arguable that this particular law did not need interpreting, or certainly not re-interpreting, given that there has been a perfectly workable interpretation in use for about 40 years at least.

If times have changed, it is a matter for parliament, not judges.

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

Oh very much so. :D

---------- Post added at 12:47 ---------- Previous post was at 12:43 ----------

As Chris has said, Parliament should decide. Certainly the followers of a organisation they consider a religion shouldn't decide. I think a organisation which charges for it's basic purpose should not be considered a religion worthy of tax exemptions.

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

Regardless of the contempt some people have for it, a "religion" is a legal term. Just because someone wants to call an organisation a religion does not make it so.

Regardless of what the Vatican says, Christianity does not order you to keep paying set amounts to gain 'knowledge'. If someone wants to live as a Scientologist then that's their right but it should never be referred to as an actual 'religion'.

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

I always thought that if you are religious you have to believe in a supreme being/s.

Do scientologists believe in a supreme being.

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

I love a bit of religious snobbery.

I think it's hilarious.

I think the judge interpreted it just fine, you can't have double standards as were applied in the 1970's on the same question

also the Act from the 1855 has now been superseded by European and our own equality acts.

Individuals have a right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion under article 9 of the European Convention. They enjoy the right not to be discriminated against on grounds of religion or belief under EU Council Directive 2000/78/EC

In regards to funding, a church needs to be funded. Should we discriminate against a new religion just because they haven't been around for a millenia to rape the land and acquire a massive property portfolio to fund themselves.

---------- Post added at 13:47 ---------- Previous post was at 13:44 ----------

Yes they do, the believe that man needs to believe in a supreme being.

I don't believe they name any particular being, or beings.

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

In fairness, the Supreme Court are not just "someone". They are a group of people who, while they may not be in a position to change laws, they can change how laws are interpreted. So, they are in a position to decide whether Scientology fits the legal definition of a religion.

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

That's what I mean - The Supreme Court makes these decisions, not your average forum arm-chair expert.

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

Great. Well they've made their decision.

It is a religion.

So we can all accept it and move on.

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

Not the point I was making but never mind.

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

I fail to see any other conclusion that could be taken from your statement?

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

It's a cult masquerading as a religion.

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

What was the term used earlier?

Arm chair expert?

Comfy chair and slippers expert eh?

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

No just someone who has observed cult after cult for the last 50 years use and abuse their 'congregations' for all sorts of purposes from fraud, child abuse to murder..all in the guise of religion and with charitable status.


However you seem to be very hot under the collar about this..Why?:erm:

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

To you, any group of people worshipping any sort of deity is a religion. Opinion does not make a fact . In this case the Supreme Court made a ruling but I'm pretty certain your mind was already made up, incorrect as it was.

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

Seems legit.

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

But in the eyes of the law?

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

Yes, generally.

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

I know very little about Scientology apart from it was started back in the 50's iirc by Hubbard.
Apparently people have the ability to make informed decisions about they way they conduct their life.
So if the supreme court rules that its a religion who are we to say cult?
Much like Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Hindus and all the others that I may have omitted they all have to start somewhere and fund themselves in ways that "others" may object to.
The world is a big place with 7 billion souls! Surely there is room for everyone?
In the free world we dont dictate what religion you HAVE to follow and as they are practicing in the free part, let them have at it without criticism.
I was brought up RC, done the church thing, was confirmed, went to catholic school, realised that it was all a scam/sham at 13 and never looked back. Some people need to follow something and some dont, isnt it about time we showed how intelligent we like to think of ourselves are and let ________________ (insert whatever wannabe religion's name you want) become whatever they are destined to be.

---------- Post added at 06:03 ---------- Previous post was at 05:57 ----------

LOL Christianity/Islam, its leaders, the ones who front the said organisations under the guise of religion have been doing this for 2000+ years, so 50 years is nothing in the great timeline, its just narrowmindedness. Turning a blind eye to what your religion does and has done and then casting aspersions on others.
Why am I not surprised!!!

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

So we're agreed that just because someone calls something a religion does not makes it so? Glad to have you on-board with that one.

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

No, I don't believe I've said that Russ. My understanding is that anyone can start a religion. What the law or anyone else might think of their doing so is largely irrelevant until they break the law.

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

But you agree that for a religion to be legally classed as such then it needs to be recognised by the law, as opposed to an armchair-expert? As in the example of 'Jedi-ism' which has no legal status as a religion?

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

I'm an atheist. Not throwing stones just making a point about cults being able to use charitable status to leach money out of their congregation to get rich and to hell with the charity. Moonies are one example.

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

For anything to be "legally classed" it ought to be assessed from a legal perspective - this is not a pre requisite unique to religion.

If someone comes up with and adheres to a faith based doctrine which they consider to be and define as a religion and which functions within the parameters of the law and if participants in that practice see some personal well-being benefit in same then good luck to them.

In the greater scheme of things if there is indeed a god I'm pretty sure he / she / it isn't too worried about the legal opinion of us mere mortals.

To my mind it's somewhat nonsensical to argue the finer points of religious / commercial law in an attempt to determine whether or not someones belief sets meet a benchmark comparable to ones own in order to justify calling those beliefs a religion.

I think Pierre hit it on the head when he mentioned religious snobbery.

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

That's all very well but in previous "Let's ban religion!!" diatribe threads on here in the past I've asked people what their definition of 'religion' is, since it could be argued that football teams, actors, singers, bands etc could be considered deities when you think of how they are worshipped.

So my point was if you ban religion then you have to ban these pastimes too as they follow the same path as say 'Christianity' in how they are adhered to.

That apparently was not good enough. I think it was more a case of militant atheists using any excuse to have a pop at (what they consider to be) religion so I'm going on the legal definition as they refuse to reveal their own perimeters for it.

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

"football teams, actors, singers, bands" are all tangible entities. Anyone who could consider them to be deities needs their head looked at.

This thread isn't about militant athiests or their perception of religion(s), it's about scientology being recognised by the Supreme Court as a religion. Clearly certain people will take this as an affront to their perception of what their own religion represents and means to them. It appears to me that some people think scientology as a religion threatens their very faith.

Personally speaking I really don't get what the big issue is. All organised religions are equally ridiculous in my eyes, that is of course my own personal opinion. Whilst I find the notion of a supreme being ridiculous I do respect everyones right to practice a religion or faith should they wish to do so. If people feel value in doing so then, again, that's fine by me and good luck to them but nobody can have a monopoly on religion and the belief of supreme beings.

To seek to deny others the right to practice a religion different to (some may say in competition with) ones own based on some human interpretaion of semantics is beyond laughable.

Again, as Pierre said, it's religious snobbery at its finest.

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

But that's a continual misrepresentation of what the argument is. People should be able to practise whatever religion or abstract notion they want but where there is conflict is when the state recognises it as a religion and therefore grants them the special status that comes with it. The tax breaks and the protective laws. This status should not be granted by the mere fact a group identifies as a religion.

Scientology is one of the few 'faiths' that charges it's members for it's basic function. The fact that a more traditional church doesn't is part of the reason why they have such tax breaks. When you're paying the vicar and the upkeep of the church whilst relying largely on charitable donations then tax breaks make a lot of sense.

Religion snobbery? Detractors of Scientology have far more reasons to be cynical of the 'religion' than mere snobbery. The complaints are many. Just look at the 'Fair Game' technique they are alleged to have employed against their critics: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_game_(scientology)

There are many other examples of that around. It's also disingenuous to claim that this about mere snobbery.

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

That's exactly what it's about Damien, people fighting over some supposed superiority of faith and an associated right to claim tax breaks.

As I said, everyone is entitled to believe what they want. Scientologly has been acknowledged as a religion and people need to get over the fact.

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

Good grief. Reading between the lines a bit there aren't we?

Damien has -repeatedly - made the case that legal status is the concern here, due to the way religious organisations are treated under law. In his argument it has absolutely nothing to do with which religion is superior to another. If you are in any way familiar with Damian's posts on this forum over a great many years, you ought to be quite content that he has no agenda of favouring one region over another.

His argument, and mine, is that changing the way the law decides what is a religion has consequences far beyond Scientology. Such changes, therefore, ought to be debated in Parliament and then legislated for, and should not be subject to the opinions of a few judges, no matter how esteemed they are.

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

Chris, with all due respect, it is you who is reading between the lines.

Nowhere have I said or suggested that I thought Damien had an "agenda of favouring one religion over another". If you are in any way familiar with my posts on this forum over a great many years, you ought to be quite content that if I wanted to say I thought he had an agenda I'd come right out and say it.

Quite clearly this whole scientology being recognised as a religion issue is a matter which vexes those who are of a faith based bent. They are entitled to their opinion however I doubt, very strongly, that tax breaks and legal standing are the primary concerns. After all if somone felt that strongly about such matters then one might reasonably ask why they are not campaigning for or advocating the removal of tax and rate reliefs afforded to the current religions that avail of them. To not do so is to clearly differentiate (on some basis) as to the bonafides of one religion over another (religious snobbery).

We've seen in debates regarding same sex marriage how legislation making provision for same in the legislature and law is dismissed / discounted when it suits so, clearly, legislation will never be an answer for all.

Personally I don't think this issue merits a theological debate at this level. Nor do I think that scientology represents a threat to anyone other than those predisposed to placing belief in a faith.

Ultimately I think that legislating about faith is about as useful and relevant as dancing about architecture.

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

That's not what I call being respectful of someone's beliefs.

People are responding to the Supreme Court's decision - it's really not like you to try to stifle debate.

I'm pretty sure you're alone (or at least in a minority) with that assertion.

OK I confess to being initially taken aback by that as I was always under the impression you were an Irish Roman Catholic. It appears we are very similar in how we view very opposing points - I consider the notion of militant atheism to be quite ridiculous too however just as you would for religious types, I respect (and would fight for) their right to have any principles or beliefs in their lives that they deem fit, just as long as they avoid me with them.

Agreed (something many militant atheists would do well to pay heed to) although I can't quite see anyone trying to deny anybody anything.

It's only religious snobbery if the observer has been too lazy to ascertain the reason for someone's objection to a belief system being legally labelled a 'religion'.

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

Help me out here Russ, what is your actual objection to this particular ruling?

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

Would it make any difference to your stance seeing as you appear to already have written it off as 'religious snobbery'?

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

Thank you, that itself speaks volumes.

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

If you're a fan of generalisations and basing on your opinion on presumptions then I'd have to agree.

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

If you won't state the actual reasons for your objection to the ruling then all anyone can do is work on assumptions. Clearly it's not me who is trying to stifle debate, it's you.

Once again I'll ask you Russ. What exactly are the reasons for your objection to this ruling?

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

No.

Re-read your posts. As in the past you'd already made up your mind that my 'objections' were based on what you decided was 'religious snobbery'. Then you asked me what my objections were. I can show you the posts in order if you like.

That's you being prejudice and narrow-minded in the way that many atheists accuse religious people of being. But hypocrisy aside for a moment.

Disliking something and objecting to it (to the point of wanting something repealed/banned) are two different things to me. They may be identical to yourself but I don't work that way - the world is bigger than me and just because I may not be comfortable with something does not mean I demand it be changed.

From what I have seen of Scientology (and its effects on members AND non-members) it comes across as damaging and destructive. Now I'm sure you'll be only too happy to show some random and out-of-context biblical passage that suggests Christianity is the same however I've not seen anything in scriptures that is directly damaging in that way. For example if you or I publicly criticise Scientology then any and all methods are deemed acceptable to ruin our reputations. That's just an example of how I'm very uncomfortable with Scientology. Do I want it banned? I'm not sure I've said that. Do I think people should not follow it as a faith? Nope not said that either.

Do I consider Scientology a threat to my own faith? That's perhaps the most laughable thing you have ever alluded to on CF.

The answer's no by the way.

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

I personally think that the militant Christians do see it as a threat.

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

Then they're being quite silly (whoever they are). Scientology is a niche hobby for people with money to spend. It's a self-improvement fad, like so many others. The fact that it has a price tag for advancement means it's never going to threaten any of the established world religions.

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

Will it have to be on the Census forms now that it's a legal religion?

will I have to put scientology or scientologist in other if it's not?

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

I'd invite you to re read my posts. Perhaps you can point out where I identified you or anyone else on CF as individuals practicing religious snobbery?


I think you'll find, in light of the above, it's you who is prejudiced and narrowminded. I have repeatedly stated that I have no issue whatsoever about people holding religious beliefs and practising / adhering to a belief subset. That they choose to do so is a matter for them and them alone. You are trying to deflect from the point at hand by feigning some sort of offence to mask your inability and unwillingness to state precisely why you object to this ruling and the reasons behind that objection.

You're on record as previously having stated that where you disagree with older laws you expect them to be changed to suit you. I'm quite clear on the difference between simply disliking something and wanting something repealed / banned. What I'm not clear about is your apparent issue with this ruling.

Ok, so now we've established your opinion on scientology and you've stated what you dislike about it, that you have no wish for it to be banned and that you've no issue with people following it as a faith can we now get back to the real issue?

What is your exact issue with this ruling?

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

That with the concerns over scientology that have been stated they'll be granted tax breaks and more laws with which to protect themselves from criticism. Additionally it suggests that the only requirement for this status is that some of your members/followers deem it as a religion.

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

Thanks for that Damien. The question was directed at Russ and I'd hope to hear back from him with his own reasons.

On your reply. Given that scientology is now recognised as a religion why in your opinion ought it not be afforded the inducements and protections in line with any other religion which is affoded same?

EDIT:

Is it the case that "only some" members / followers of scientology consider it a religion?

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

Being allowed to call yourself a religion and being given religious status by the state are different things. The latter should not be granted because it's deemed a religion by it's followers. In Scientology's case there is a lot to be concerned about it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Freakout

This is one of many similar cases. We're going to be granted them laws that could see the police knock on people's door....

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

Wikipedia and hearsay / evidence of past behaviours (not unique to scientology) aside.

Given that scientology is now recognised as a religion why in your opinion ought it not be afforded the inducements and protections in line with any other religion which is affoded same?

As others have posited. There are no religions which are blameless as far as past behavious are concerned so why make an exception / difference as far as scientology is concerned? Why not remove the tax saving and protections from all and any religions and thereby generate more money for the treasury / greater good of everyone. After all, one might reasonably question the need, for example, for churches. Wasn't it Jesus who supposedly said according to Matthew 18:20 "Where two or three are gathered in my name..."

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

It's not 'hearsay'. There is plenty of evidence and testimony from former members about the organisation.

I can't keep answering the same question and having you pretend I haven't. Russ cannot do either. I have said why time and time again including the post you've quoted.

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

and they wonder why 'religion' starts wars.... :D

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

OK, fair point, but you I'm assuming have no practical real world personal experience of any such behaviours on the part of scientology. As such I'm intrigued as to your objection to their being recognised as a religion.

Thanks for answering for Russ again. He's lucky to have you as such a friend. So your position is based not on their right and recognition as a religion and the fact that they might be recognised as a legitimate faith but on the tax inducements and legal protections they, like many other religions, will be afforded?

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

I don't have a practical real world personal experience of a lot of things I deem to be unfair or wrong. I don't know what it's like to be hunted for ivory or for my rainforest to be cut down. I don't know what it's like to be assaulted or racially abused. I still object to those things. Nonsense argument.

I have given my reasons already.

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

I want to know why the couple didn't just have a "religious ceremony"in the Scientology chapel of their choice and simply have a registrar present or a civil ceremony after ,or is the point of getting scientology recognised as a religion so that weddings can be legally registered by scientology ministers

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

Thanks again Damien.

On the subject of nonsense arguments why do you object to scientology getting tax breaks but not christianity given that they are both religions?

What, aside from your zero practical real world experience of them, makes them so different as to not qualify in your estimation?

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

Your cheap little shots are really annoying me now. Most people don't have experience of most things but since we read, listen and learn we form opinions on matters we don't have direct experience of. So what? Are you really trying to shut down all opinion and comments with that?

I have already given my answer. Multiple times. You keep asking the question again and again presumably hoping that people will think I am avoiding it.

Here are the times I answered that question. Three times.

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

Sorry if you find them annoying Damien, I certainly didn't intend annoying you nor was I trying to have "cheap little shots".

I'm in no way trying to "shut down all opinion and comments". On the contrary, I'm proactively encouraging the debate of opinions and comments and I can't help but notice that you don't appear too intent or prepared to engage certain questions raised, which is your right.

I've acknowledged your replies. I'm asking what in your opinion makes the scientology recoginition to entitlement different from any other religions?

Essentially I'm interested in establishing if you are equally aghast at any other religion being afforded tax breaks or legal protections or is this a particular affrontage you reserve for scientology?

If so, and affording consideration to your self confessed lack of real world experience of scientology and their practices (alleged or otherwise), why?

It's a straightforward question. Do you think other religions are more deserving of tax breaks etc than scientology?

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

Do religions get tax breaks?:erm:
I thought it was charities that got tax breaks.

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

Religious organisations can apply for charitable status purely on the basis of being a religious organisation. They can then claim gift aid tax back on donations as other charities do. There is also some kind of business rates relief on their premises.

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

Scientology should be investigated as a cult and for fake psychology, not recognized as a religion.
Their only purpose is to sell their sci-fi mumbo jumbo, in instalments so the crazier elements are not seen until sufficiently programmed!

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

Personally I find Christianity to be fake and/or a cult. The only purpose I see for Christianity and their non factual beliefs in a 2000 year old story that purports to be true is to make money off of the backs of the gullible. People are programmed from a young age to adhere to the thoughts and beliefs of those that say they they have the ear of the man upstairs.

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

About time that was clamped down on, organisations want charitable status let them prove what charity acts they do regardless of religion.

---------- Post added at 20:32 ---------- Previous post was at 20:31 ----------

Yep, turn the other cheek and love your neighbour are clearly for the gullible and have no place in the modern world.

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

"The promotion of religion" is a charitable act, under British law. It would be a pretty radical change to do away with that.

Re: UK Supreme Court rules that Scientology is a religion
 

I'd love to see blueprints for their Electropsychometer.