Another Cyclist Death
 

http://www.itv.com/news/london/story...st-collisions/

Yet again we here of cyclist being killed on the London roads, and on the cycle tracks that are supposed to help cyclist.

To be honest with you all, l am totally surprised that there is not more either killed or seriously injured.

I cycle each day in my job, but 90% of the time cyclist's do not obey the law, either going through red lights or crossing busy jctns.

In London, there are police cyclist, that go and give out fines for them if they go through red lights.

In fact only yesterday l was driving down a busy road that runs between Gillete Corner and passed Warren Farm football fields, it was totally dark, and in front of me was a cyclist. NO lights, NO hi vis jacket yet just cycling.

I feel sorry for them if they get injured, but they MUST be seen, to avoid accidents.

The tragic accident that l have ever seen, was when a cyclist passed a Lorry on its left and there was a clear sign on the Lorry NOT to pass on his left. And the cyclist was trapped between the left side of the lorry and a road metal fence and she was crushed to death.

If they are to use the roads, then they must wear proper gear and lights. Tragic deaths can be avoided, and cyclist MUST be taught this. As l said l do cycle approx 20 miles per day.:(

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Bows roundabout is not cycle friendly ,it definitely needs a bit of work.I have no problem at all with cyclists in london, think of the congestion if all those cyclists decided to drive cars but the time is approaching where they must be required to pass a test .Also it may be an idea to scrap cycle lanes

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Around here we have some cycle-ways on the footpaths and they're hardly ever used by cyclists for some reason. My wife uses a couple of them regularly but hardly ever sees anyone else doing so.

There are so many more cyclists now that there are bound to be more accidents. As slower 'amateur' cyclists increasingly come into conflict with the courier variety and the lycra clad Tour de France wannabes, they are also put at risk by speed merchants darting in/out at speed from all angles in their quest to get where they're going as quickly as possible. This too can cause accidents.

I agree that drivers need to be more aware but being surrounded by people on bikes all trying to do their own thing, many of them ignoring the highway code and none of them indicating what their next move is going to be, life can become very difficult. Yes training is important but just as important is changing the mindset of that proportion of cyclists who act as though the rules are for everyone else and believe that accidents are never their fault. How we're going to do that is another matter. I guess prosecution is the only way to tackle the hard core but judging from the indignant attitude to criticism of many serious cyclists I can see it taking a very long time to make them see that they too need to behave responsibly on our roads. It's far easier to blame the motorist, the taxi driver, the bus driver the lorry driver and anyone else for that matter.

Yesterday we saw what I imagine is a common problem and the cause of many serious accidents. We were stuck at a junction with 2 buses in front of us wanting to turn left and indicating accordingly. A cyclist came up on the inside of us and tried to squeeze past the buses on the inside even though there was hardly any room to do so and his presence would either prevent the drivers from turning left until he was out of the way or quite possibly result in him being crushed under their wheels. There was plenty of room next to our car and he'd have been perfectly safe waiting there for the lights to turn green and the buses move off but for some reason that wasn't his choice and he found himself wedged between the bus and the railings. Did he see their indicators? Did he care? Did he realise what danger he was placing himself in? It's hard to imagine why he did such a stupid thing but IMHO it's stupidly like that which leads to a great many accidents involving cyclists.

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I see the aggressive law breaking cyclist all the time and it's a pity that all cyclists get tarred with the same brush.

I'm a great believer in cycling defensively. It's very difficult to argue the point that you are in the right if your brains are spread over a large area of tarmac!

I find professional drivers far more courteous and aware than most private motorists..... especially the school run platoon:td: Most of them seem to think that cyclist require the same width of road as a cycle tyre.

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Cyclists have been very good at recording and publishing incidents in which they've been the victims via headcams and the like. Increasingly we're going to get the other view as more drivers get dash cams and more footage starts to emerge of the crazy and dangerous things many cyclists do. Of course this will rarely lead to prosecution due to lack of ID but IMHO it will reveal that there is a serious issue with a significant proportion of cyclists and will help innocent drivers avoid unwarranted prosecution. If I were a regular city centre driver I'd definitely get front and rear cameras installed.

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Cyclists need to lose the attitude that they have priority over everything on the roads because they are saving the planet .I'm going down to liverpool street station in london later on today for delivery 10am tomorrow and the first thing i will do is turn my video camera on

---------- Post added at 10:11 ---------- Previous post was at 09:42 ----------

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-24936942

and another one ,this time involving a bus .Questions are now being asked about the safety of the cycle superhighways which imo have only served to increase congestion and endanger cyclists lives

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Cyclists do need to accept they are vulnerable. Motorbike riders have generally learnt this. Neither has protection from any metal work to shield their body. If there is an accident, regardless of the reasons why, they will come off worst. It appears that too many cyclists ride aggressively, rather than defensively.

But there is a problem with many so called cycle routes. They can enhance a sense of invulnerability, and give a sense of false priority. Often the routes are badly designed, and frequently a waste of space. Many are simply a series of markings and at every junction the priority of the cycle route is lost, or even due to lack of space the cycleway ends throwing the cyclist into the main traffic route. It's often simpler for the cyclist to stay on the main road. But if there are give way markings they do need to be observed. Only yesterday I nearly collided with a speeding cyclist that had ignored the give way markings on his route as I turned right across a junction.

No one wishes there to be an accident. Somehow we all have to fit on the overcrowded road network, and that means we all have to be a little more patient with each other rather than the get there at any cost attitude that has started to prevail amongst all users whether drivers or riders.

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London is certainly different to most none cities. I ride in a town and the only issues I have are drivers who just do not see me specially in poor light so I have bought new lights a cree torch and clip for my front light very bright and wide beam and a red led and laser light for my rear. Round here drives tend to be decent I have found and pretty much let me make maneuvers to turn right when needed and do not try to force me into the pot holes by the curb

Blimey Arthur, a post of yours that a, I agree with and b, makes sense.

Don't tell me there is a full moon tonight!

Anybody can jump on a bike, no lessons on road safety or etiquette, added to that there is no compulsory insurance requirement, no mot of the bike required, in fact it's only advisory that bike riders wear a helmet.
Maybe if laws were changed, not to make things difficult for cyclists but to make sure a level of competency is reached before people are legally allowed to take to the road.
Just think if motorcyclists carried on like some cyclists do there would be uproar!

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If motor vehicle drivers can be forced to wear seat belts for their own good ,have insurance and pass a test then i'm damn sure that cyclists could be forced to wear helmets ,hi viz for their own good ,have insurance and pass a test

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As l have said l cycle each day in my job, and do so for approx 6 hours of the day.

I have lights, high Vis etc. BUT to me cyclists have a responsibility to themself, to protect their health and also any other vehicles on the road.

When a person buys a cycle, they should register that cycle and then be FORCED to take out insurance in case of accident. Just like when you buy a Tv, your info is passed onto the relevant organisations.

I have seen some very stupid decisions by cyclists, BUT all these companies out there who say that WE must be vigilant towards cyclists. How can we if we cannot see them.

Cycling is very good healthwise for you - its also very dangerous when you go through traffic lights.

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You cycle 6hrs a day :shocked:

He only works for 45 minutes, take off mandatory breaks and traveling to each customer/client/needy it only leaves time for a backside wipe and a cuppa ;)

He is right tho, at point of sale info should be passed on (like as Arthur says same as tv license) bikes could be tagged with an I'd chip and third party insurance brought also at point of sale.

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I know that both car drivers and cyclists are equally to blame but the amount of times on a daily basis I see cyclists fly through red lights....... Get's me real annoyed!

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I do not fly anywhere on my bike lol

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I have just watched a farcical interview on London Tonight, where Boris Johnson plans to go ahead with Cycling highways costing thousands of pounds.

Cyclist have to be educated in using the roads, most of them are totally ignorant of the roads, blaming drivers for accident.

Tonight on my way home for example, a cyclist went straight through a red light, he got tooted by a van and the cyclist stuck his fingers up. And this was on the busy A4 Gillette Corner.

Cyclist have to realise several things. They MUST wear a hi vis, have lights, etc etc. Drivers are human, accidents happen with cyclists everyday of the week - they cannot keep blaming drivers if they have an accident.

What Boris has to do, is bring in a law - They have be registered and MUST have insurance, which you can get for cycles.

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They're idiots round here, I'd hate to think what they're like in London.

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same here -i'm spotting a trend

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I see cyclist everday jump lights pull out on roundabouts in front of cars and then have the nerve to blame the driver.

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Yes we all know that sort of thing's a regular occurrence.

Last night I did 40 miles to/from a couple of nearby villages and was surprised to see so many cyclists wearing dark clothes which rendered them almost invisible in the gloom, especially where there were no street lights. To be fair most had flashing rear lights but I saw only one with any form of front light and none had helmets. Trying to see a cyclist coming up behind you in the dark really is very hard work if they don't have some form of front light to show their presence.

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I also seen them driving with just those flashing LEDs (it stated this on the pack when I bought some before I learnt to drive) which are NOT allowed to be used on there own, but with a non-flashing light.

Re: Another Cyclist Death
 

Them lights are blinding especially the Cree LED lights.

---------- Post added at 06:13 ---------- Previous post was at 06:11 ----------

Shall we start a trend?

Cycle Death- again
 

Today we saw another death of a cyclist. On a report by London Tonight, we saw cameras showing cycling on London Roads.

BUT, several of these DIDN'T HAVE LIGHTS or HI VIS jackets and cycling in the middle of traffic, and those that did have lights could not be seen properly.

It is no good the Cycling commissioner throwing more money into safer roads and lanes for cyclists.

Before they do that, the cyclist have to be educated on how to ride the thing, how to be SEEN in the dark and on the roads, cyclist must be hit with fines if they do abide by the laws of the road.

I ride and bike and was also a delivery driver in London and have driven on the roads for over twenty years.

BUT, Cyclists are a danger to themself, jumping lights, going on the wrong side of vehicles, despite warnings on the vehicle.

They have to be educated, they must be registered, and NOT allowed to cycle on the road until they have done a cycling course and given a card like a drivers licence, BEFORE they are allowed on the road.

I know that police cyclist of which my son is one, has to apply for a cyclist card, pass a fitness test, and go on a course. And is NOT allowed out until he wears all the proper equipment and has lights on his cycle.

I sympathise with the people that have been killed, but cyclist must realise that any mistakes by them could lead to a car, lorry or even a bus could maim or kill them.:(

THEY MUST BE EDUCATED ON THE ROADS.

Re: Another Cyclist Death
 

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I actually agree with Arthur on something :erm:

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As do i :shocked:

I went into London the other day in the truck and for those who have not seen them the cycle super highways are simply painted blue lanes half the width of a normal lane ,the mad thing is in a lot of places they have actually cut the bus lane in half so you have the totally bonkers situation of buses and cycles sharing the same lane with the cycles being on the left (the blind side )

Re: Another Cyclist Death
 

I heard Harriet Harman's demanding that lorries be banned from London during rush hour. How's that going to work then? :confused:

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What a pathetic comment from an MP, is she going to ban Buses and cars as well.

IF, cyclist obeyed signs that are on lorries - there are signs on lorries saying ' do not pass on this side' Then they would not be involved in accidents with lorries

What you should do is BAN all cycles from London roads - IF they want to be stupid and jump lights, don't wear PROPER gear and have lights or cycle in between vehicles , and even use mobiles when cycling or have headphones on- then you should not be on the road - FULL STOP, Once they start paying TAXES, they can have there say.

Re: Another Cyclist Death
 

we would absolutely love it and it is workable ,it already happens in france

---------- Post added at 21:05 ---------- Previous post was at 21:01 ----------

Not at all Arthur ,as i said above restrictions apply during certain hours in many parts of Europe and works well ,banning trucks in london during rush hours makes sense because something has to give and the most flexible are the trucks ,the only addition i would make is lifting some of the night time restrictions that apply to trucks .

Re: Another Cyclist Death
 

My understanding, if I heard correctly, is that in Paris the ban is all day not just peak hours. Given the vagaries of London traffic, what'd happen to those lorries which enter London off peak but are stuck there due to traffic problems or whatever? They can't just park up for the day can they. How is all major development work going to be carried out in London if lorries are banned all day and if some of the night time restrictions are lifted I'm sure there'll be an awful lot of Londoners complaining about being woken up in the night? Am I missing something here?

Anyway why are we suddenly considering banning lorries after half a dozen cycling deaths when thousands of pedestrians and other road users are killed year in year lout by cars and other vehicles every year and very little seems to be done. :confused:

If, by a similar quirk of fate or coincidence, there are no further cyclists killed this year and in 2014 the figures are back on a par with recent years will that mean lorries suddenly don't need to be banned? I'm sorry but, whilst all such deaths are tragic, I see a massive overreaction gathering pace here.

Re: Another Cyclist Death
 

French lorry ban details

http://about-france.com/hgv.htm


Part of the reason is because the cycle ways in London are Boris' baby and he is determined to make it work no matter who else it inconveniences ,i think he would gladly see everyone on a bike with buses ,cars and lorries banned from central london and to be honest most truck drivers will have no problem at all with being banned from London and just dumping the cornflakes at a warehouse near the M25 for customers to collect themselves .:)

Re: Another Cyclist Death
 

I could understand it coming from Boris but Harriet Harman? Wonder if her street has a lorry problem?... lol I'm sure many drivers detest coming into London during the day but then if they're not going to be able to, more people will have to be hanging around out of hours for deliveries. collections etc. and all that adds up to a considerable knock on effect I'd have thought.

Re: Another Cyclist Death
 

Absolutely it would ,a ban during rush hour would simply move the rush hour or at least extend it ,any lorry ban would have to be during the day forcing lorries and other delivery vehicles to the night hours .

Re: Another Cyclist Death
 

Its really strange as several companies that l know, there lorries and vans only deliver at night.

Parking is easy and they don't pay the congestion charge.

Re: Another Cyclist Death
 

Ban the cyclist who break the highway code.

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Ban cyclists from the roads

Everyone wins!

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That's why they only deliver at night;)

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Apart from the health benefits of cycling, the reduction in the number of cars, freeing up space on public transport and the effect on the UK cycle industry, it's a great plan!

Re: Another Cyclist Death
 

Ban cyclists from the roads

More overcrowding on public transport
More vehicles on the road; increased pollution
Less healthy population; increased pressure on the resources of the NHS

Yup everyone wins. :erm:

Re: Another Cyclist Death
 

This molrning for example, driving through St Margarets. Two cyclists went through a red light.
I shouted ' you've gone through a red light' there reply F.O

Re: Another Cyclist Death
 

Banning cyclists is obviously not a good plan but something needs to be done with a large minority of cyclists who simply haven't a clue what they are doing on roads or pavements.

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Starting with the fact that they shouldn't be on pavements. There should be some form of testing to allow adults to use cycles on the road. It doesn't even have to be practical.

It annoys me when I'm sitting at the traffic lights on my cycle and other cyclists jump the light, or worse, veer from pavement to road.

Unfortunately we all get labelled the same.

Re: Another Cyclist Death
 

I have been hit by a cyclist once and had a near miss recently.
The first was not looking where he was going on a pavement and I couldn't react in time he was going so fast.
The second was going the wrong way on Fleet Street of all places with two buses coming straight towards him. Unbelievable.

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http://news.sky.com/story/1170704/bo...-headphone-ban

This is farcical coming from Boris. What he should be saying is:
Cyclist SHOULD HAVE LIGHTS, HI VIS and abide with laws of the road NO JUMPING RED LIGHTS etc etc.

You start from the most important parts of cycling first EDUCATING.

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I suspect very few cyclists are ignorant of the rules of the road. They just choose to ignore them. Education, licencing, etc won't make a lot of difference where there is a common place blasé attitude and a general feeling that if incorrect behaviour is OK for one, then it's OK for another.

Some things should be common sense such as no headphones (you might still hear stuff, but not as clearly, but then in a car with windows wound up and radio on you aren't hearing others around you so is it a part of the issue). Lights, hi vis, etc all help, but the real issue needs to be defensive riding, not the gung ho attitude frequently seen.

And as for banning heavy vehicles, what is the proportion of incidents that have occurred peak times to off peak. A couple of the recent deaths have involved buses. Are we going to ban them too?

The ideal solution is segregation. If one could demolish our cities and start from scratch, that might be achievable. Of course we can't do that and so everyone has to fit into our road network that goes back to medieval times. Inevitably that creates conflict.

Every road user has to take their share of responsibility, be that driver, rider or pedestrian.

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Cycling on London roads is hardly healthy, all the rubbish breathed in is about as good as staying at home and smoking twenty fags and I don't really like the other idea of freeing up space on the roads by killing all the cyclists either.

---------- Post added at 16:08 ---------- Previous post was at 16:05 ----------

Someone told me at school.you had to have passed cycling proficiency to ride on the road but looking back I think they we're just trying to get me to do it.

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Not any more ,Boris's LEZ took care of that ,nowadays the London air is as sweet smelling as a field full of tulips ;)

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Some cyclist are asking to be hit.

Tonight driving home I saw 3 of them riding wearing dark clothing, only one had a helmet and one had no lights, and the ones with lights just had the flashing LEDs.

Personally the police should stop these idiots and confiscate their bikes and make them walk home and NOT be allowed to collect their bikes without proper lights (non Flashing type), head gear and fluorescent clothing.

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The police here in Cambridge go through a period each year of dishing out fines to cyclists who don't have lights at night...Far too many for them to cope with, though.

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Until you've driven one you don't know the blind spots, neither do the Cyclists.

http://digg.com/video/how-big-a-truc...spot-really-is

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I've seen that video before and although it is an excellent example of showing what can be hidden in the blind spot ,the blind spot mirror is set wrong for an arctic it should be set further out showing less of the cab this would allow a wider angle to be seen ,if you look closely you can just see the edge of a rider as the camera zooms in ,a wider angle would have allowed the driver to see the riders clearer

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In the end of the day there will always be cyclists and motorcyclists killed by the larger object. I have ridden bicycles and motorcycles an driven cars for years... you are very vulnerable on the smaller object.

There should be compulsory training for learner car/lorry drivers to take a first part CBT before they are allowed into a car, this will give them a sense of other road users.

Re: Another Cyclist Death
 

How about some compulsory training for cyclists?

---------- Post added at 14:28 ---------- Previous post was at 14:25 ----------

Now why doesn't that surprise me...

If fines are just a money making exercise (as so many people claim), I'd have thought the police would be keen to find the resources to issue as many as possible and thereby make even more money. :rolleyes: