Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu (Post 35644581)

And this is NOT a rant

Originally Posted by dilligaf1701 (Post 35644607)

Yes it is.

Originally Posted by Doug P (Post 35644632)

Indeed it is and it is also wrong....

Originally Posted by heero_yuy:35644641

Yes it is and you're wrong on every count.

But trying to have a factual debate with you is as pointless as with Arthur.

Suffice to say that in 1979 the bodies were going un-buried, rubbish stewn the streets and strikes everywhere and the country was the "sick man of Europe" yet another Labour creation. After the next 18 years of Tory government the economy was booming, strikes were at a historic low and most people were considerably better off.

It took Labour to wreck a golden inheritance (again) by maxing out the state's credit card on a spend, spend, spend boom fuelled on borrowed money which is why we're where we are now.

As for the NHS, reform is vital as just going on as it is now is the way to disaster. Things HAVE to be done more efficiently as there will never be enough money to fund as much NHS as people seem to want. Those expectations have to be moderated.

Priorities will have to be made and trade offs: Do we fund boob jobs for women who are paranoid about cup size? IVF for those who already have children? or fund the next expensive breakthrough in cancer drugs.

Should the NHS concentrate on the truely sick rather than funding vanity proceedures?

These sorts of questions cannot be dodged, accusing the Tories of destroying the NHS is silly when they have funded real increases in expendature.

Originally Posted by alferret (Post 35644655)

Agreed, good post :tu:

Don't let Arthur see it, it's full of factual information that doesn't need to contain a link and is valid.

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu (Post 35644581)

http://news.sky.com/story/1167733/a-...o-tier-service

This to me is the first signs that the NHS will go private by the time of the elction.

The NHS cannot cope with the pressure that it is under. Since the Tories came to power, more and more hospitals have come under threat of closure.

Mr Cameron has said that he is pouring millions into the service, well maybe if he poured the money into the medical side and NOT the Admin side, this would ease the mounting pressure on such a delicate sector

It was stated yesterday that some hospitals are 150 nurses short on each section.

Each election year, the NHS is used as a pawn by all political parties to gain more votes, you cannot have that. The NHS is abused each day by patients with needless problems that can be dealt with by Gps or Pharmacists. BUT, all sections of the NHS is stretched to the limit.

But this is because of cutbacks by government. And this is NOT a rant, but the truth about what is happening to a servive provided for poor and needy.

Originally Posted by Sirius (Post 35644722)

Yet more bull excreta posted so the op can RANT yet again about the Tories

Originally Posted by Qtx (Post 35644726)

Yet more attacks on a person by yourself without adding anything to the discussion.

I fully expect many parts of the police and NHS will be outsourced over time to companies owned by rich friends of those in power.

Originally Posted by Qtx (Post 35644726)

Yet more attacks on a person by yourself without adding anything to the discussion.

I fully expect many parts of the police and NHS will be outsourced over time to companies owned by rich friends of those in power.

Originally Posted by Qtx (Post 35644726)

Yet more attacks on a person by yourself without adding anything to the discussion.

I fully expect many parts of the police and NHS will be outsourced over time to companies owned by rich friends of those in power.

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu (Post 35644762)

Oh l like this again my rant at the Tories - l hate them, every single Tory supporter in this country who voted for them, should be ashamed.

Where l live within a few miles - there are four hospitals that were on the Tory hit list for closure - Ealing, West Middlesex, Central Middx and Charing Cross.
Luckily West Middx and Ealing were saved. But this was to SAVE money.

The truth is that the Tories, want the NHS to be privatised and they are doing it by the back door - two years ago a PRIVATE company took over a hospital, and it couldn't be saved as the company couldn't afford to run it.

At the moment there are MORE admin staff running hospitals instead of medical staff. By putting the NHS in private hands would save the government billions. And by 2015 l believe that the Tories will make every attempt to do this.

Its true what some paper said that The Tories think of only one person - THEMSELF.

Members can say that l am ranting, but if there was a vote in the commons - EVERY Tory would vote, except those that would fly abroad - like IDS did yesterday on the bedroom tax vote.

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35644838)

By way of widening the debate: Almost nowhere in the entire world will you find a state health service that is structured the way ours is. Some degree of co-payment is the norm, especially in modern Western nations.

Why are we so utterly convinced that our way is the best, especially when the NHS doesn't even come close to the top of the developed nations league table for health outcomes?

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu (Post 35644839)

This forum is about free speech, and l will say what l want - if you don't like what l write, then don't read it - simples.

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu (Post 35644839)

The next time ANY member goes to A&E or their GP, see how long you have to wait for an appointment OR wait at A&E to be seen.

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu (Post 35644839)

I was at Ealing Hospital, the waiting time was FOUR HOURS, reason not enough staff..

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu (Post 35644839)

To make an appointment with my GP, TWO days, thats if you can get an answer. Drs are overstrectehd.

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu (Post 35644839)

This forum is about free speech, and l will say what l want - if you don't like what l write, then don't read it - simples.

The next time ANY member goes to A&E or their GP, see how long you have to wait for an appointment OR wait at A&E to be seen.

I was at Ealing Hospital, the waiting time was FOUR HOURS, reason not enough staff.

To make an appointment with my GP, TWO days, thats if you can get an answer. Drs are overstrectehd.

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu (Post 35644839)

This forum is about free speech, and l will say what l want - if you don't like what l write, then don't read it - simples.

The next time ANY member goes to A&E or their GP, see how long you have to wait for an appointment OR wait at A&E to be seen.

I was at Ealing Hospital, the waiting time was FOUR HOURS, reason not enough staff.

To make an appointment with my GP, TWO days, thats if you can get an answer. Drs are overstrectehd.

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu (Post 35644839)

This forum is about free speech, and l will say what l want - if you don't like what l write, then don't read it - simples.

The next time ANY member goes to A&E or their GP, see how long you have to wait for an appointment OR wait at A&E to be seen.

I was at Ealing Hospital, the waiting time was FOUR HOURS, reason not enough staff.

To make an appointment with my GP, TWO days, thats if you can get an answer. Drs are overstrectehd.

Originally Posted by dilligaf1701 (Post 35644849)

Wouldn't you need to read it to know you don't like it ;) Also free speech is NOT about saying what you want.


A&E 10 minutes last week and GP 20 mins this morning.

I'm sure waiting times vary everywhere you can't or at least shouldn't base your opinion on just your or a few peoples experience. Plus the staff should be triaging the most serious cases when you get there.

As above waiting times vary. And yes I have no doubt Dr's are overstretched.

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu (Post 35644839)

This forum is about free speech, and l will say what l want - if you don't like what l write, then don't read it - simples.

The next time ANY member goes to A&E or their GP, see how long you have to wait for an appointment OR wait at A&E to be seen.

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35644881)

btw2, you must have been very unlucky, as the stats for Ealing (for last week) show that only 31 of the 1896 people who attended A&E waited over 4 hours...

Originally Posted by Ramrod (Post 35644892)

:dozey:

---------- Post added at 20:30 ---------- Previous post was at 20:28 ----------

:rofl: busted :D

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu (Post 35644581)

http://news.sky.com/story/1167733/a-...o-tier-service

This to me is the first signs that the NHS will go private by the time of the elction.

The NHS cannot cope with the pressure that it is under. Since the Tories came to power, more and more hospitals have come under threat of closure.

Mr Cameron has said that he is pouring millions into the service, well maybe if he poured the money into the medical side and NOT the Admin side, this would ease the mounting pressure on such a delicate sector

It was stated yesterday that some hospitals are 150 nurses short on each section.

Each election year, the NHS is used as a pawn by all political parties to gain more votes, you cannot have that. The NHS is abused each day by patients with needless problems that can be dealt with by Gps or Pharmacists. BUT, all sections of the NHS is stretched to the limit.

But this is because of cutbacks by government. And this is NOT a rant, but the truth about what is happening to a servive provided for poor and needy.

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu (Post 35645114)

Then you will get the system where if you haven't got the funds to pay for healthcare, you will get a system that you turn up at a hospital and get turned away - and thats happened to me twice, and then got sent back to the hospital by my GP.

I have paid into the health service all my life and therefore expect to be treated free.

Private companies are popping up all the time, wasn't it last year a hospital or GP was sending their patients abroad for treatment as it was quicker and cheaper for them.

Private healthcare is coming in by the back door.

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35645030)

Who cares who runs it? You get sick, you get treated, you get better and you didn't pay for it. If someone else makes a profit out of the process, so what?

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35644881)

Free speech is about saying what you feel/believe - but it is also being challenged on it, if others disagree, or if your facts are in error.

Can't have it both ways*, Arthur....;)

btw, if it's not too personal/embarrassing, what were you at Ealing A&E for?

btw2, you must have been very unlucky, as the stats for Ealing (for last week) show that only 31 of the 1896 people who attended A&E waited over 4 hours...

http://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics...treps-2013-14/

October 2013 A&E Data http://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics....3-AEFoA0Z.xls Row 169

Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 35645123)

I do pay for it, we all pay for it, nhs isn't free and I don't want someone making a profit out of it because it's never enough profit for them you only have to look at the utilities companies to see that.

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35645265)

Free at point of use, obviously. :dozey:

And if healthcare providers making a profit from their services is so appallingly evil, how come it works so smoothly in that well-known hotbed of right-wing, free marketeering capitalism, Germany?

Provided the State pays the same for any given procedure in any hospital, and that procedure is carried out to an agreed standard, why does it make a difference who owns the hospital?

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35645030)

Who cares who runs it? You get sick, you get treated, you get better and you didn't pay for it. If someone else makes a profit out of the process, so what?

Originally Posted by Nidge41 (Post 35645425)

Run by hedge fund managers though? Come on you can see the wood through the trees.

Originally Posted by Pog66 (Post 35646425)

/OT
that will be those hedge funds that we want to grow so we get a decent pension?
/OT

Originally Posted by Pog66 (Post 35646425)

/OT
that will be those hedge funds that we want to grow so we get a decent pension?
/OT

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu (Post 35645114)

Private healthcare is coming in by the back door.

Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35646640)

I often wonder why new hospitals aren't all based on the same basic design, perhaps modular, so that they're aren't all the huge extra costs associated with architects, designs, fancy bespoke steel/glass etc. etc. Given the size and potential buying power of the NHS why isn't more equipment, furniture, fixtures, fittings etc. standardised to drive down costs?

Who cares if all our hospitals etc. look similar and are more functional? I'm more worried about the quality of treatment than I am fancy designer glass clad atria and facades.

A local care centre was built with a fancy glass entrance which, to prevent it becoming too hot in summer, required a bespoke steel structure and canopy to shade it. The canopy has since started to fail and will need to be replaced at significant cost I'd imagine. Wouldn't a normal entrance have sufficed and avoided the extra cost?

Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35646640)

I often wonder why new hospitals aren't all based on the same basic design, perhaps modular, so that they're aren't all the huge extra costs associated with architects, designs, fancy bespoke steel/glass etc. etc. Given the size and potential buying power of the NHS why isn't more equipment, furniture, fixtures, fittings etc. standardised to drive down costs?

Who cares if all our hospitals etc. look similar and are more functional? I'm more worried about the quality of treatment than I am fancy designer glass clad atria and facades.

A local care centre was built with a fancy glass entrance which, to prevent it becoming too hot in summer, required a bespoke steel structure and canopy to shade it. The canopy has since started to fail and will need to be replaced at significant cost I'd imagine. Wouldn't a normal entrance have sufficed and avoided the extra cost?