Marine killer deserves clemency
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24877081

Hard one to judge this i think ,is a life sentence appropriate or is the Maj Gen right in that he deserves clemency

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

rules of engagement are there to be followed and as a experienced sergeant he does not really have any excuse. However I think the rules of engagement are to tight and often tie our soldiers hands when they should be able to attack

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

I think he's unfortunate. No one has done anything about SAS commandos that have been doing this for years. Iranian embassy is a good example.

Rules of engagement shouldn't apply outright in a situation in Afghanistan. I completely disagree with helping an injured insurgent whom will likely attempt to kill you at any given moment. The taliban and afghan insurgents alike are constantly beheading innocents. A quick bullet death is more than they deserve. The law is the law though. My opinion means nothing when faced against it.

He'll be made an example of.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

I feel he should not have been charged in the first place, the Taliban would have done it to him if the tables were turned. If it had been me there instead of him i would have done the same as him. I have no time for the likes of the Taliban who cut the heads off people just for the fun of it with a kitchen knife. They should all be shot and no quarter given ever.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

That's the trouble ,as much as i might agree that the insurgents need a bullet in the head we cannot pick and choose which rules to obey ,after all we helped make them .We can however choose the punishment and i can't in all honesty think that this soldier should be treated the same as a ******* who kills a old lady for her handbag or murders a child

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

That's just the way this country is though. Send a lad packing to Afghanistan and then arrest him when he does his job.

A few thousand miles away some American is bombing an old pakistani lady's house with a predator missile on the basis there's a terrorist close by. Nobody in the US cares.

I can already see a scenario coming in which helpless British troops are killed by an insurgent playing possum because of this.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

I think that should be part of the debate ,should the Geneva convention apply when one of the opposing forces has never signed it or agreed to use it? .

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

It's a game of ethics in modern warfare.

We must show we have higher standards than the enemy, Geneva Convention and all that, even if the enemy does not adhere to the Rules of War.

However hard it may seem at the time.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

Must admit when i joined up it was heavily taught

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

He was not just a lad though he was an experienced officer(NCO)

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

Same as when i was in, however i still support the guy 100%.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24877081

And i say again in the same circumstances i would have done the same as him. Its what the Taliban deserve.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

In the face of uncertainty everyone has the same mindset whether you be a child or an old man. Experience goes bang out of the window. Years of training and discipline disappear when you're stood atop of the man that just fired upon you.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

If you had been under fire you would know it affects everyone not just young lads

---------- Post added at 16:55 ---------- Previous post was at 16:55 ----------

:clap:

When the red mist hits there is no control what so ever.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

I have said I do not agree with the rules of engagement :)

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

The general makes a good point in that just because the soldier was "battle hardened" he is not immune to the effects of such a "filthy" war,indeed his(the soldiers) experience can make it worse

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

if experience when out of the window then all our armed forces when in combat would be animals. All the interviews with combat troops I have seen end with them saying they remember the training funny that ;)

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

I think most of us are in agreement with one and other here:)

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

Indeed ,there must be a punishment but he must never be equated with a common murderer .War is a unique environment and needs to be treated as such when crimes occur

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

I just wish our countrymen were no longer there

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

You fight you get berated by the world, you stand by and watch and you're berated for not doing anything. Loss/Loss pull them out and give them:2up:

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

If this guy is guilty of anything its being stupid enough to have video evidence ;)

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

This is a really difficult one but, never having been in that position, I can't bring myself to totally condemn what the marine did. Expecting Geneva Convention rules to always be observed is asking a lot of any solider IMHO, especially when they're fighting against people for whom their are no such rules.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

He should be punished the same way as if it had been a civvy with a gun on the streets over here doing what he did.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

People over here don't tend to get back up and blast an RPG at you. Ones an active war zone and the other is a normal street. You can't compare the two.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

Agreed.

Rules of Engagement are fine, on paper, but do you keep to those rules when your enemy disregards them? Special forces, 2 in the chest & walk away. By the time you comply with rules, your dead. We had stupid rules in N.I. stick to them & get a free ride home, in a body bag.

Train hard, fight easy, Old Pongo`s know. Your training doesn't allow for much thinking time, when under fire, you switch to Automatic. The mistake these 3 idiots made, was putting it on record. You don't get much higher in the pecking order than a Royal Marines Commando Sergeant, most guys above his level of training are SF.

One rule. Better to be judged by 12, than carried by 6.

Unless you have been in these situations, you really have no idea whatsoever & your opinion is worthless.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

Agreed. The only thing that annoyed me was it wasn't a. 50 to make sure he wasn't getting back up.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

Which is why I said if happened as it did for the soldier. The point I'm making is if a civvy over here acted in the same or similar circumstances would he expected to serve a lesser sentence?

The reason I'm saying this is on 2 other forums I use plus on some Facebook groups people are having the attitude of "He's one of our boys, he's brave (which is never in question), he sees danger every day etc so he should be let off" which is utterly ridiculous.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

Those kind of people you're debating with tend to be BNP thinking yobs who think war and killing people is a glorious thing. I'm not looking at it like that I just don't think this guy should face life for his actions.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

That is a very arrogant opinion although in the most part I agree with what you say however the level of his training as you lay out is just down from special forces if he can not do it right then there is something wrong imo

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

Firstly he won't be let off and no one is suggesting it ,the suggestion from the General is that clemency should be shown reducing the sentence down to maybe 5 probably 10 yrs with no life parole on release .

Secondly ,as SMG has said soldiers with his level of training and experience could be SF who by necessity are wired differently to us mortals so some allowance must be made .

Thirdly ,being "one of our boys" has sod all to do with it ,he is guilty of a war crime and has been found guilty, the punishment should be based on the unique circumstances of war not compared to some little scroat killing someone in a drugs deal gone wrong

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

I've not seen anything to suggest they're BNP knuckle-draggers. The overall consensus is because they're one of "our boys" they should get special treatment.

And an all-too-common opinion when it comes to matters relating to the forces. I'm not a football manager but does that mean I can't call it when David Moyes screws up?

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

Which in fairness is usually the attitude of people with little or no knowledge of how the armed forces think and work .
When i was in the RE's it was drilled into us from day one that pride in your regiment is paramount ,being a soldier of any rank in the British Forces (or any branch for that matter) meant being the best in the world and any soldier who did not have that attitude didn't last long and those that bought disrepute to the forces like the Marine has done will be dealt with ,there will be no leniency because he is "one of our boys" and nor should there be

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

Spot on :clap:

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

I can't remember any SAS member being prosecuted for the Iranian embassy incident. That's part of the reason I'm annoyed they're thinking about life sentences.

The second being there would be riots if the insurgent had got up and killed this guy because he's not permitted to double tap.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

the Iranian Embassy incident was nothing like this. They held hostages the special forces went in and they put down the terrorists. They were under orders and followed them ( I assume)

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

They executed 2 unarmed insurgents that had surrendered. Pretty sure it's similar if not the same thing.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

Oh and to those who say I know nothing cuz I have not been in that situation this guy knew exactly what he was doing and admitted it on camera



---------- Post added at 20:38 ---------- Previous post was at 20:36 ----------

Did not know that I apologise however I thought the SAS on missions like this do not take prisoners anyway ?

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

And the same soldiers have most likely (given their combat experience)seen many friends and comrades blown to bits which are the unique circumstances i spoke of earlier and is the only reason why clemency must be shown in this case

---------- Post added at 20:42 ---------- Previous post was at 20:41 ----------

You been watching too much telly ;)

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

And soldiers know that there is a chance that they will be sent to war and they become professional . Revenge is a dangerous motive

---------- Post added at 20:43 ---------- Previous post was at 20:43 ----------

Maybe and listening to Chris Ryan

I would not mind if that was the policy btw same as I would not mind if there was a similar policy in Afghanistan

My only issue is some think he should have special privileges same as the one who had the hand gun just because they were soldiers and they should not same as the cop who mowed down the girl and what Derek thought

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

Only if people on Civvy Street who have been through harrowing life experiences should also be shown the same clemency should they find themselves in court. I for one do not wish to live in a country with a two-tier legal system.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

Agreed ,to me this highlights the rather ambiguous reasons we are in that god forsaken crap hole ,we are trying to be friends with people who would sooner see our soldiers blown up along with the rest of western civilisation and blokes like Marine A don't know where they stand .If we are at war then treat it like a war and go in and wipe the buggers out don't pussy foot about trying to be all pally pally with someone who just wants to blow your legs off

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

I don't think the SAS ever take prisoners. I have mixed feelings about what they did though just as I do with this. By law they should have been punished.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

Yes, it is murder but murder on the battlefield isn't the same as murder in a civilian context. It shouldn't be condoned or overlooked but the difference should be understood. I'd hate to think that in similar circumstances in the future, one of our soldiers hesitates because of this case and more of our brave forces are killed/maimed.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

lets be honest it has probably happened lots and lots of times only this time some Richard filmed it

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

Very true.

Americans were nabbed urinating on a Taliban member because of someone filming it.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

That's more worrying ,the wounded taliban could easily have been holding a grenade and knowing he would most likely die anyway or simply take the chance to martyr themselves and take some Brit soldiers with him

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

Indeed :tu:


To be honest they should ban soldiers from carrying those headcams. We did not carry cameras on patrols in NI as a general rule.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

No, & we didn't all have 2 way radio communication or bullet proof vests either M8.

---------- Post added at 22:47 ---------- Previous post was at 22:47 ----------

Yes.

---------- Post added at 23:19 ---------- Previous post was at 22:47 ----------

Your right. It is an arrogant opinion. Whenever I read posts like this, I picture myself in that position. Whenever a situation arises, a soldier needs to be forceful, aggressive, sometimes compassionate.

So here`s a situation. Your in Bosnia. People are dying everywhere. War crimes, murder, Genocide. Your with the U.N. You give some kids (about 8 years old) your sweets & chocolate, then some big bruiser comes out, punches the child's head, knocks her out, kicks her whilst on the ground, & takes the sweets. What do you do.

A. Shoot him.
B. Rifle butt him, & give him a good kicking.
C. Drive on.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

Dude this guy committed a crime he got caught that is bad luck he has to take the punishment. What did you do?

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

B.

However, if I had a wounded terrorist who had been shooting at me, Probably A.

I don't consider killing a terrorists a crime. The SAS has the only 100% cure for these people.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

Our forces are out there fighting an enemy that has no rules of conduct. They'll happily kill men, women, children in any way they can without compunction and do not deserve, IMHO, the protection of the Geneva Convention. I think circumstances such as these need to be heavily borne in mind when deciding these matters. It'd be ironic in the extreme if any of our forces were lost affording such an enemy a protection they clearly don't deserve or believe in.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

:clap::clap:

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

Yes, we've seen that.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

They did it happily did they? Planned it? Enjoyed it? Had no regrets whatsoever? It was deliberate policy engrained in their MO just like the Taliban, Al Qaeda and the like. Makes you wonder why they didn't start emulating the IRA's tactics, they'd have been able to kill so many more innocents that way...

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

Rather a pathetic attempt to have a crack at British troops .You simply cannot compare the two scenarios

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

Some folks clearly can for reasons best known to themselves and they're not worth trying to debate with. I will never equate how the vast majority of our troops behave with the likes of Al-Qaeda, the Taliban or any other terrorists for that matter.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

It's a rather uncomfortable fact though that armies, of whatever hue, are capable of atrocities. I'm simply pointing out the fact that the British army has murdered it's own unarmed subjects and fellow travellers on the streets of it's own cities. As such this shouldn't really surprise people, should it?

---------- Post added at 11:40 ---------- Previous post was at 11:36 ----------

I'm not having "a crack" at anyone, I'm referencing an instance where soldiers gunned down innocent people. Yes, you're right you cannot compare the two scenarios. Not least because none of the civilians shot dead on Bloody Sunday were armed combatants or engaged in armed conflict when they were gunned down.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

No it doesn't surprise anyone and we are all aware that these things happen ,the difference ,and it is a massive difference,is we hold ourselves accountable when it happens as we are doing now .

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

Irresepective of whether they planned, enjoyed or regretted it they did it and that's a fact. I'll tell you what Osem, for not having emulated the tactics of the IRA they haven't done too bad at murdering innocents in their tens if not hundreds of thousands. Ask anyone living in Iraq or Afghanistan.

---------- Post added at 11:46 ---------- Previous post was at 11:45 ----------

Fair point.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

You mean the innocent people that had intentions to shoot and blow up British soldiers :rolleyes:

Don't suppose your oirish are you

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

Which intentions were these? Are these "intentions" which you, like the troops on the day, have mistakenly assumed / alleged and which the Bloody Sunday inquiry found no proof of?

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

Intentions such as IRA snipers in place before the march ,the probability of Martin McGuinness supplying detonators for nail bombs on the day of the march and carrying a machine gun (evidenced in the saville enquiry).Make no mistake that day was always going to end badly either because of the British troops or the IRA

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

It has to be said that Mr Angry certainly knows how to make a memorable return :D

---------- Post added at 13:38 ---------- Previous post was at 13:36 ----------

I know what it is you're saying and I agree in principle but I have to point out that you are mistake in that comment - the British Army didn't kill unarmed subjects, a number of soldiers did. It could be argued as semantics but I say the two are a world's difference.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

Marty, You'd do well to read the overview of the findings again. Here is David Camerons speech.

It makes no reference to any "probability of Martin McGuinness supplying detonators for nail bombs on the day of the march...".

What David Cameron does say (quoting the report findings) is "In each case, the findings are clear. It does the same for Martin McGuinness. It specifically finds he was present and probably armed with a sub-machine gun but it concludes, and I quote, "we're sure that he did not engage in any activity that provided any of the soldiers with any justification for opening fire".

Yes, the day did "end badly". Innocent civilians were gunned down in cold blood by members of the British army. Whilst you may wish to argue the contrary your Prime Minister stated "There is no doubt, there is nothing equivocal, there are no ambiguities. What happened on Bloody Sunday was both unjustified and unjustifiable. It was wrong".

There was no intention on the part of any of the victims who were shot dead "For those looking for statements of innocence, Saville says that the immediate responsibility for the deaths and injuries on Bloody Sunday lies with those members of support company whose unjustifiable firing was the cause of those deaths and injuries. Crucially, that, and I quote, none of the casualties was posing a threat of causing death or serious injury or indeed was doing anything else that could, on any view, justified in shooting."

You appear to be prepared to attempt to somehow excuse or defend the actions of the soldiers on that day. David Cameron takes a very different view whereby he states unequivocally "You do not defend the British Army by defending the indefensible".

Wise words indeed.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

I do not either but the law of the land sees it differently and we all have to abide by the law of the land or suffer the consequences whether you agree with them or not. Why should this man get preferential treatment? he should not imo

---------- Post added at 12:55 ---------- Previous post was at 12:52 ----------

you can not have a law and then say it does not apply it is then a war crime . Saddam was hung for not obeying the law various AQ leaders including OBL have been targeted for not obeying international law. How can you fight on the side of that law then say it does not apply because the enemy which we are fighting because of breaches to this law do not follow it???

---------- Post added at 12:57 ---------- Previous post was at 12:55 ----------

how can you say we hold ourselves accountable then say the geneva convention should not apply to others???

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

Which is exactly what i said in response to your statement of "which intentions" ,i think that answers your question .The IRA had every intention of turning that day into a very bad day for British troops and civilians ,the problem was that the soldiers being on edge,nervous ,scared or whatever opened fire first ,and yes i will defend the actions of the soldiers up to a point ,the same as you seem prepared to defend people fully prepared to blow the crap out of the soldiers

---------- Post added at 13:23 ---------- Previous post was at 13:06 ----------

Marine A is not getting preferential treatment ,he has been court martialled for murder and found guilty .However his sentencing should bear in mind any extenuating circumstances the same as any sentencing in civvy would .War is a unique environment and comparing it to civvy street is ridiculous ,in some cases committing a relatively minor offence like theft will get you hard jail time because you wear a uniform instead of community service or a slap on the wrist because you wear a hoodie,do you think that fair

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

:tu:

I reckon that our forces, for by far the most part, treat their captured enemies with a great deal more respect than the terrorists ever do when the roles are reversed. In an imperfect world, fighting an enemy that will stop at nothing, that's something to be proud of and nothing which was done in N. Ireland or anywhere else alters that.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

A if I can get away with it, B as a minimum

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

no but some here want him to

---------- Post added at 14:37 ---------- Previous post was at 14:36 ----------

and the most part doing right does not alter the fact that some including bloody Sunday did wrong

Just to clarify my position here. I do not think what Marine A did was wrong I am all for blowing away all terrorists. My point is I do not think they should be treated differently in law the fact the law is wrong imo is not relevant

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

I always thought the only rule of war was to kill the enemy.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

I know others have different opinions than me, & I would respect that opinion, provided the person has been & seen the same as me. Mr Angry, how many years have we had differing opinions re N.I.? Paratroopers are not street cops, they are highly trained & motivated shock troops. We train these men for front line action requiring overwhelming firepower & surprise.

It was stupid to put them on the street that day. It was a recipe for disaster. I believe I told you the same a while ago, we all knew they wouldn't take ****. I was a 20 year old lad on rapid reaction when the crap hit the fan.

Although N.I. & Iraq etc are different, clothes, culture, religion, abodes, country, etc, they share one fact, insurgents don't wear a uniform. So, who is the enemy?? They both detonate explosives, both kill their own people, women & children, to kill a soldier.

It is extremely difficult to keep an open mind when you see the bodies of your mates, or the aftermath of a bombing. I believe its a credit to most soldiers that they don't seek revenge, but, back on topic, this Marine broke the rules & he will pay the price. But allowance should be made, because he was trained to kill, without compassion, by his government.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

:tu:

---------- Post added at 17:15 ---------- Previous post was at 16:35 ----------

And those who are quick to condemn him will never understand that if they have never served and put there neck on the line.

How many here are condemning this soldier when they have never served and therefor will never ever understand what it is like to put yourself in the position he was in, Weeks and weeks watching your mates die by people who don't give a toss for the Geneva convention in the first sodding place.

---------- Post added at 17:17 ---------- Previous post was at 17:15 ----------

:waving::waving:

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

Absolutely true but that isn't justification for a two-tier legal system.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

Excellent post.

Yes he will pay the price and still be condemned by some here but had he been a terrorist he'd be a hero to those he represented.

---------- Post added at 18:20 ---------- Previous post was at 18:17 ----------

Well said!

:tu:

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

and those of you that have served have to understand that does not give you special rights to do what you want in law. The law may well be wrong but it does not give you the god given right to special treatment

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

Those who have served in war, have the right, & duty, to kill or wound an enemy without fear of prosecution. They do not have the right to shoot a wounded, unarmed enemy, who is in no position to retaliate, having said that, does the enemy have a death wish, & a grenade under him?

What about a sniper who takes the life of an enemy, without warning or provocation? Is he guilty of Murder?

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

No special treatment wanted or needed ,just an understanding that goes beyond the "law is the law" ,an understanding that when the governments of the world create psychopathic killers to protect their freedoms sometimes they will behave like psychopathic killers .

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

yeah but our guys are mean't to be the best something to be proud of and some ie Sirius do want special treatment it is not all about you marty ;)

I would rather the rules of engagement changed so our boys can reap more death on the Islamic psychopathic killers

---------- Post added at 18:53 ---------- Previous post was at 18:49 ----------


you all know the rules of engagement and are under orders to follow the rules. The sniper is under orders to kill combatants.

As I keep saying the law is wrong but it is still the law and if like this guy a breach comes to light something has to be done. We are after all fighting the righteous war ( well I think so) if you act the same as the enemy you become as bad as the enemy and then we should really re think our position in global conflicts

---------- Post added at 18:56 ---------- Previous post was at 18:53 ----------

this is not acceptable behaviour in modern society the general public have to feel protected by our armed forces this guy got caught due to some very poor decisions. Breaking the rules on camera admitting the breach on camera it is his own fault he is in the position he is in

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

They do not have the right to special exemption from the law and that was reenforced with his conviction. It's the way it should be and it was rightly followed.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

Good comments. The sniper still kills without provocation. Should a civvy do that, its Murder. The law can not be the same for both.

One of the problems a professional Army faces, is the disguised enemy. One who is not immediately identifiable. S.F. have a good record in most actions. They are not restricted to wearing an identifiable uniform, they dress like the enemy, & use tactics to suit the threat. The professional soldier will not kill innocents, terrorists will. So, tactics need to change, rules of engagements need to change, to accommodate the threat.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

In this case I'd like to see our entire armed forces quit. Let's see Cameron and the MPs step up to the table. Send the lawyers and judges for a few weeks then let's see them condemn a soldier to life.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

You want the entire armed forces to quit because someone got convicted for murder and you think he should get off?

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

All that has been mooted by some is that clemency be shown not exemption ,i for one do not think he should go to jail for 15yrs with life parole

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

No I want our entire armed forces to quit regardless. I want to send David Cameron, Tony Blair and Gordon Brown over instead with their army of MP's as backup. Then I want to send the judges and Lawyers sentencing this guy to Afghanistan and strap them a few guns.

Very easy to judge and condemn someone when your sitting on a chair wearing a fancy wig.

You say Murder. I say justified.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

didn't say it was :confused: you can't go 5 minutes without trying to wind people up can you

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

Clemency would be an exemption from him facing the full consequences of his actions. This was recorded and seems to have been a clear case of murder. Why shouldn't he get the standard sentence? Everyone convicted of murder goes onto life parole.

---------- Post added at 19:18 ---------- Previous post was at 19:15 ----------

I say murder, the law says murder, the Geneva convention says murder and so did the court that sentenced him.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

Then tell that to the homeowners blowing holes in unarmed burglars. An insurgent is multiple times more dangerous than a bog standard burglar. So effectively your murder law is full of crap.

Iranian Embassy 2 SAS commando's execute 2 surrendered terrorists.
Random Brazillian is shot dead by Armed Police in the aftermath of 7/7
Male is shot dead in a London Cab for possession of a firearm. He didn't fire upon officers.
Marine shoots dead an insurgent in Afghanistan (is punished for it)

Some country, some 'law'

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

Because he is not the standard killer ,he is taught to kill and given permission to kill by HMG ,after a period of time and watching friends getting killed and maimed i would imagine the lines get blurred

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

They probably would but it's not an excuse to kill someone who didn't pose a threat. There was evidence at the trial that seemed to make it clear that this was not an act of self-defence or warfare. It was a wounded combatant who was no longer a threat who was murdered. Maybe he had the misfortune to fight for a side that values laws rather than the side that doesn't but that's what he signed up for.

Members of the armed forces aren't above the law and don't get special clemency for breaking it. I imagine most murderers have had moments in their life that drove them to that point. If you looked into the past of many convicted murders then there may be similar stories but they are convicted and jailed anyway. Most of us cannot relate to a drug dealer that grows up in a culture that devalues life and for whom the lines have also become blurred. I believe such sentiments are dismissed as 'do-gooding liberal human rights' when they're expressed on here. ;)

The thing is the law is the same for everyone. You can have a case of diminished responsibility and a manslaughter charge as opposed to a murder charge if the court believes you weren't of a sound mind/the red mist had descended etc. However that didn't appear to be the case here.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

Aren't above the law? conviently missed the 3 cases I listed above then. An insurgent is always a threat whether injured, dead or alive. It only takes half a second to detonate an IED.

The Americans are brilliant at following laws. Dropping missiles on Pakistani civilians must be a hard task. But they're all being sentenced for murder right?

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

We must be clear that in this case it is proven that the insurgent did not pose a direct threat .Had Marine A not said what he did on camera and used the defence of "i thought he had an IED" he would most likely not even have faced charges .

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

Gone are the days of "Playing fair", the old saying, "playing by the rules", we are doing that & getting our arses kicked. Until someone comes up with a plan, a breathing insurgent is a danger. Even dead, he is still a threat. Why?, because he doesn't play by the rules.

Marines A,B & C could have turned away, only to see a grenade roll by.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

How? Did they remove his clothing? did they rip his insides out for in body IED's?
If proven is based on him not moving and what you can actually see then no thanks.

We should have done the right thing though. Patched him up and given him his AK back to kill a handful of troops before legging it because that's the law.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

Maybe so but those moments are not sanctioned by HMG .The fact that Marine A was "battle hardened" by long service (according to the General) could have the effect of blurring those lines even more ,making it harder to distinguish between what is sanctioned killing and what is murder and if anyone will actually be bothered if he finishes off a wounded terrorist

---------- Post added at 20:02 ---------- Previous post was at 20:00 ----------

It was proven by what the Marine said on camera .

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

That's a good question. Is anyone actually bothered this guy shot an injured terrorist? Inserting a poll would be a decent idea.

The terrorists family are likely bothered but they'll be out throwing Pepsi can bombs next week.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

That i think is the discussion to be had ,it is perfectly feasible for a wounded insurgent to have explosives on him to be detonated in the hospital while we are playing fair and patching him up .I think the notion of fair play in war with Afghan insurgents is quite ridiculous because i have no doubt that should we decide to start parachuting men in they would make no bones of shooting them before they land ,so should the rules of war apply when one side doesn't recognise them .

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

Yes and had they done so people would be wondering how it happened and trying to find someone else to blame for the preventable carnage allowed to happen.

Some folks need to get real and understand that war is dirty and this sort of war even dirtier. Things like this certainly aren't nice but they are understandable. It isn't like killing someone with a knife through the heart because he's looked at someone else in an odd way, shown 'disrespect', belongs to a different gang or supports a different team. This is the most awful type of conflict in which one side is asked (and tries) to obey rules the other side not only has no intention of honouring but would be quite happy to exploit to cause more carnage. Under those circumstances I can understand how these things happen and believe the mitigating circumstances are significant. And no, that isn't the same as suggesting out troops should have carte blanche to murder anyone they like on a whim. If our troops are going to have to fight against people with no moral compass I think we need to accept that occasionally theirs might get skewed and take that into account when judging their actions.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

No of course they shouldn't. We're still not going to go around beheading people though. Remember who these people are. They deserve to be shot when down. Preferably with the end of a .50cal barrel. You're in a country where it's impossible to separate the innocents and insurgents. Otherwise we could evacuate the innocents and just level the place.

We're fighting people that strap bombs to children to approach troops. Imagine how that feels to have to potentially gun down a child. We have to remove bombs from a suicide bomber who's either had a change of heart or has malfunctioning equipment. The whole war is a joke.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

Excellent post.

The only thing that makes this Marine guilty of murder is the Geneva Convention,and at the moment we are playing football where the opposing team is picking the ball up and running to the net

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

Those same laws that don't prevent the US tearing apart Pakistan every day.