Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

When is there going to be a Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?

BT are launching the Homehub 5 with 802.11ac later this year:

http://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php...ss-router.html

Virgin need to keep up!

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

My superhub 2 will always be up to date as i use it in modem mode and buy a 3rd party router. I only moved from superhub 1 in modem mode because i was trialling the 2

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

Do all your devices work on the 5ghz frequency as older kits throughput is still the same apparently?


http://www.zdnet.com/the-five-things...ac-7000017112/

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

OMG.....theirs nothing wrong at all with the next gen super hub. Only because bt are launching something with wifi 802.11ac does not mean its all singing and dancing.

You only had to read the issues of their bt vision need i say more.

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

given the shub2 is only just out the door I think it will be a year minimum.

I wouldnt worry too much about AC at the moment tho as barely any devices have it.

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

I'm dead certain that VM, with their history of willy waving, will bring in a SH3 in due course. It might be Puma6 based - particularly because it can handle 24 downstream channels which would be needed for higher speeds, althugh there would be a significant infrastructure development cost around that.

And, what's more, I'm also certain that VM have that sort of roadmap already in train.

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

I agree, I think the AC device is a ways off yet but I think (I Hope?) Virgin is sensible enough to combine it with a DOCSIS 3.1 modem.

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

You mean "some" and "802.11ac". 5Ghz is irrelevant and all is irrelevant.

At which point it becomes well obvious, duh. Of course your devices will need 802.11ac to benefit from 802.11ac.

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

Do you have one single device that currently could use 802.11ac ? i didn't think so, pointless thread move on.

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

Bit presumptuous of you, isn't it? There are a few ac capable devices out there, such as many of this year's Smartphones and you can buy wireless AC cards if you look around.

However, your logic is asinine - why would he have any ac capable stuff without an ac capable router? Conversely, why would he buy an ac capable router without some ac capable stuff? Something has to come first!

Pointless comment is pointless.

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

chicken or egg ?

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

Now that is a daft question. Everyone knows the evolution path of a chicken - so it must have been an egg.

So that's got nothing to do with whether the OP intends to have any 802.11ac devices to use with his shiny new SH3.

Plus there is no analogous relationship with chicken/egg and ac device/router.

Please forgive this bit of fun!

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

You amaze me !

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

Excellent!

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

So what animal laid the egg then???????????:D

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/at...9&d=1378752705

Cheers

Grim

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

I am fully expecting the iPhone 5s, to be announced tomorrow, to support 802.11ac. I intend to buy this phone.

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

Ultimately in the past, the Dinosaur or its predecessor..

And before you ask which came first, the dinosaur or the egg, that wasn't the question put by banjo.

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

and I'm still no wiser !

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

Exactly!

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

Purchase a router that supports 802.11ac then, simples

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

Not so pointless a thread, then - as johnholmes was the OP.

Full circle. Chicken AND Egg.

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

But which Dinosaur Seph??:D:D:D:D:D:D

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

Glad you asked me that, Pip. Chicken AND egg is a different axiom from chicken OR egg.

Accordingly (and obviously) the dinosaur does not enter into the stipulated hypothesis for chicken AND egg. (Let's hope that the Horse doesn't either!)

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

Oh No Seph!

Axioms and hypothesis.

The Horse is bound to be preparing an epistle as I post!

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

He'll do it (or some of it) in Latin as well.

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

As they have reserved shub2 for 120mbits atm, I would hope that shub3 would tie in with the launch of 200mbits just as you had to have the vmng300 for 50mbits.

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

Could be? I'm still convinced that the Shub3 will be a DOCSIS 3.1 device, but only run on DOCSIS3 for the time being - could be 200Mbit, I suppose. There's no reason why the SHub1 or 2 couldn't do 200Meg though, especially with 8 D/S channels.

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

Sadly, no ac support in the 5s.

http://www.apple.com/iphone-5s/specs/

Roll on iPhone6!

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

IMO, 200 meg needs increase to 1024QAM on same infrastructure or it needs 16 channels on enhanced infrastructure at 256QAM. 1024QAM raises the noise flor by 3 dB; is the network good enough for this given the way it is segmented?

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

Sounds like a goid plan and i would to see it rolled out that way but i think they going to have to start banging out 200mbits long before they are ready for docsus 3.1

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

Well that document that was revealed a while ago stated that the best way to roll out 3.1 would be to start with the modems, then upgrade the network when ready. SH2 is relatively new so I don't expect a new one any time soon, certainly not before Wireless-AC is fully ratified. Should have plenty of time to get some 3.1 stuff in there, I hope.

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

smartphone vendors have mastered dripfeeding tech.

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

To be fair, I'm not sure I see the point of ac on a phone. I've yet to see a phone capable of hitting N300 speeds, let alone N450.

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

there isnt really, its the same as there is no point of DPI on smartphones that exceed 200. But they keep bumping it up so people think cool and buy.

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

I was going to say similar! My iPhone 5 only does max 70Mb/s connected to my SH2 @5Ghz. but to be fair 802.11ac should also offer improved speed at any given range, even if not beating 802.11n's theoretical max.

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

The caveat to what Jong1 has said is the end point of any transactionfrom an 802.11ac device. So if it's the internet that's target, depending on the protocol between router and ac device, there'll either be buffering in the router (and that can cause problems) or slow demand from the ac device.

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

SGS4 with 802.11AC does 120Mbps here so I would say it is worth it.

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

and what do you need 120mbit speeds for on a smartphone :)

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

Porn. Haven't we been through this already? =D

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

Yes.

---------- Post added at 05:17 ---------- Previous post was at 05:15 ----------

A pre-chicken.

---------- Post added at 05:17 ---------- Previous post was at 05:17 ----------

Why buy something you could get for free.

---------- Post added at 05:19 ---------- Previous post was at 05:17 ----------

Apart from network testing (which I do do a lot of) I fail to see the need for 50Mbps+ in a phone.

Occasionally I'll want to transfer lots of music to it over my LAN but then my wireless is already faster than my memory card :(

---------- Post added at 05:20 ---------- Previous post was at 05:19 ----------

According to Ignition, 400 meg doesn't necessarily need any more than 8 channels of 256 QAM on a well run network.

---------- Post added at 05:22 ---------- Previous post was at 05:20 ----------

Have you ever seen VM follow such a path? Dunno about long in the past but they certainly never released DOCSIS 3 modems before rolling out a DOCSIS 3 network and service.

---------- Post added at 05:25 ---------- Previous post was at 05:22 ----------

That's because phones are not built to support N300 or N450. Similarly I'm yet to see a laptop capable of N600 but that doesn't mean AC won't be faster.

Most phones only support N150 because MIMO increases costs and power consumption. AC can increase speeds to the equivalent of N450 without needing to triple the number of wireless radio paths.

---------- Post added at 05:28 ---------- Previous post was at 05:25 ----------

I disagree on the DPI point, I can quite clearly see (and get annoyed by) pixelation on 300 PPI screens, and that equates to 600 DPI on the pentile matrix. I had to go to 900 DPI before reaching the point where I could no longer see or benefit from "bumping it up"

---------- Post added at 05:29 ---------- Previous post was at 05:28 ----------

It does that with 802.11n too. AC should be doing double that.

---------- Post added at 05:29 ---------- Previous post was at 05:29 ----------

Copying an MP3 album over while running for the bus. Yes, my wireless does cover the local park and 4 nearest bus stops.

Though that's less important now I can get up to 100Mbit speeds anywhere I can get to by bus...

But really, it is more likely to benefit laptops than anything else, but then laptops are also the easiest to upgrade to 802.11ac. It'll probably cost less than £30 in a year or so.

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

Sure - that's the maths of 256QAM. But then just one user can stuff a network node at 400 meg. I was looking beyond that.

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

Qas you must have really good eye sight, there was some kind of scientific report done on DPI and they said phones have gone well past the point that people will notice pixels. Obviously I am talking about looking at it normally not putting it right close to eye to examine it. Interestingly the same report also said 1080p is pointless over 720p on screens under 32 inches for tv use. On my monitor which is 22inch 1680x1050 nothing feels pixelated if its at that resolution, and of course this is much lower DPI than a high end smartphone.

How often are you copying mp3s whilst running for the bus? and I wonder if a N connection vs AC for copying those mp3s will make the difference. I can understand AC for home network devices such as laptops and pcs, nas etc. but phones it seems a bit of a niche/novelty feature.

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

I agree and I'm in no rush. A year or 2 when costs are down is just fine for me. But my point, in a slightly later post is that ac should (yes, we'll need to see) offer usefully better speeds at a range when n would be struggling, e.g. in bigger, older homes.

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

odd, qas in his rush to disagree with me, forgot he said he fails to see a need for 50mbit+ in a phone.

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

Not really. My visual acuity is about average at close range and pretty poor at long range. Most people I know have better eyesight than me. And I'm talking about normal use at arms length, although being shorter than most people I probably have shorter arms too.

Yeah, but said TV is assumed to be at 10 foot from the user, not 1 foot.

Chances are your monitor also uses a different pixel and subpixel layout and technology, with a diffuser and smaller inter-pixel gaps. Your display almost certainly has at least 50% more if not double the number of dots per pixel than my sAMOLED (not plus) smartphones for example. And how often do you hold your 22 inch monitor 10 inches from your face while reading in bed for example?

Once or twice a week or so?

I did mention elsewhere N is already as fast as my memory card at close range but at 400m the extra bandwidth of AC comes in handy. Especially when N can manage a measly 15Mbps and takes 5 minutes to copy said album and said bus is 2 minutes out.

---------- Post added at 19:20 ---------- Previous post was at 19:17 ----------

Again, not an issue if run properly. Nobody should be able to stuff anything.

---------- Post added at 19:21 ---------- Previous post was at 19:20 ----------

See above. It's not speed that matters, its consistent speed at range without MIMO. The advantage isn't that it gives you more than 50Mbit, it's that it gives you 50Mbit at four to sixteen times the distance.

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

qasdfdsaq - I'd like to see you get 120Mbps on a 802.11n real throughput to a phone.

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

Sorry, I gotta run and catch a bus. But here's BenMcr getting 107.91Mbps on a phone with a Superhub no less:

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/35...-post1064.html

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

107 isn't 120.

Obviously I 'Only' got 120Mbps because that's the most i can get from the WAN at the moment....

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

I guess next thing you're going to say is 129.8Mb/s isn't 120 either.

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2013/09/16.png

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2013/09/17.png


Yeah, because "WAN" is the limiting factor of your "LAN"

Some of us actually use the speed of our LAN as the determinant of our LAN speed.

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

I use lan if wan is incapable of maxing it out.

I use wan to test if its a smartphone as my phone doesnt hold large amounts of data for me to shift around easily over wireless (the only tool I have that does that is airdroid which is controlled pc side no phone side, what do you use qas to send files over your phone wifi on lan). I dont mind testing with wan since my isp is so consistent on speed but on AC I did do lan testing on my spare pc and laptop with a AC dongle.

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

Well my HTC One supports AC, so if for some reason it has a problem with 5GHz it automatically switches to 2.4GHz,

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

Just noticed this post Chrys.

Given that BT's HH4 is only a few moths out the door, the HH5 is expected soon (certainly before December).

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

so do 802.11n phones with dual band support, like the iPhone 5.

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

yeah but the hh5 was triggered by the openreach wires only install changes.

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

Yeah, I wasn't sure how his post had anything to do with 802.11ac at all.

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

And I 'only' got 107Mb because I haven't yet got my 120Mb upgrade.

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

qas what app you using to show that wireless info?

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

The first one? The device's built in diagnostics - i.e. Samsung Service Mode in this case.

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

how do you get to samsung service mode?

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

never mind found it now, dial *#0011# then menu key and select wifi.

certianly seems more useful than normal info available but on my device many of the lines say n/a.

I have n/a for
modulation
CR
TX
NETWORK

my link speed even tho on 5ghz with no other 5ghz networks in my area is 135mbps not 150 and thi sis very interesting as every single app I have used to report on wifi shows just 72mbps.

I am on WPA2 vs your WPA.

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

Virgin Media UK Prep 1300Mbps WiFi SuperHub 3 Cable Broadband Router

http://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php...nd-router.html

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

"Otherwise there will be the usual mix of USB and four Gigabit Ethernet ports"

which I very much doubt will be enabled. VM don't seem to like spending time on non-service critical features. If they can't be bothered to enable 3rd party dns servers (which will already be available in stock fw) then they defo aren't going to be bothered with usb. The sad thing is that they need to realise that if they really want customers to take the shub seriously and use it then they need to permit features such as print servers, media servers and shared network storage etc otherwise customers will just see it a very fast modem and still look to 3rd party routers for their needs.

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

Why would Virgin care about people using the hub as anything other than a modem? Adding more features just means a bigger support scope as far as Virgin is concerned. If they had their way, we'd still be using standalone modems but they have to concede to "free wireless" in an all-in-one device because that's what the competition is doing.

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

You're welcome ;)

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

because just as wireless was the "in thing" a couple of years ago, as technology is evolving, customers are expecting more feature packed cpe and if VM want to flout stuff like "unbeatable" and "the best" then it needs to live up to its name. Asking for a usb port to work on a unit that has a physical port isn't much to ask. They like to flap about streaming stuff and if they were clever they would encourage customers to host stuff on the shub and stream it to tablets/phones/consoles over the lan. People will be do it for the novelty and it will give VM the marketing edge. If they bought decent equipment to start off with then they wouldn't need to worry so much about tech support. How many calls do you think they have had about wireless over the last 4 years vs pre-shub support calls? There is another thread running atm where tech's are being sent out wireless performance because they are being booked as intermittent connectivity faults.

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

If virgin cant make money out of something they wont enable it. USB is probably reserved for voip incase they go for that in the future

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

I think you're vastly overestimating how many people would actually make use of that USB port. Sure, you and I would, but the sheer vast majority of people wouldn't bother with it. A lot of the ones that would are just as likely to use their own router anyway, because no matter how hard Virgin tries, their hubs will never be as feature-packed as a high-end router - and it doesn't make sense to be for cost reasons, why spend all that money when most customers won't even know or care about it? The ones that do will just end up causing more phone calls getting it to work, which means more training and more expense - all for something most people won't ever use.

I get that it's an important feature to you, but nobody else (as far as I know) is pushing those features either, so it's not just virgin.

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

Declaration of Conformity for the VMDG490

http://www.downloads.netgear.com/fil...EN_27Mar14.pdf

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

Most people won't know they'd use it until it's there and other people shout about it. To simply attach a USB drive for storing your media/photos content would be extremely useful to a lot of people.

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

And when they cant get it to work who do they call? Book a tech....

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

It sure would be useful, but again I don't think most people would actually bother with it, given that the majority of people seem somewhat allergic to technology in general.

In any case, picture the scenario - let's say someone has a router with said USB port and they have a USB hard drive fllled with pictures. Let's say they put 2 + 2 together and plug the two together - now what? How do they view those pictures? I know it seems obvious, but most people wouldn't even know where to start.

And this is the crux of the issue - Virgin aren't going to pay for additional training of their agents, just so they can deal with the odd one that does actually call in. If Virgin were to enable such a feature, it'd likely have an overall negative impact on customer's as the ones that call in to get help using it will invariably not get the help they need and not be bothered with it. Tech's will be booked that can't do anything about it and people will just blame Virgin.

I agree that it'd be a nice feature to have but then I would know how to use it. I know that the majority of people out there wouldn't know where to start.

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

And then how to do you make sure whatever else you want to see the photos on is compatible?

Should the router run DNLA, should it be AirPlay or something else? Have they configured their own devices properly to be able to connect to the SuperHub in that way?

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

the whole point of this is VM's ethos around tech support. If they left it as it is from Netgear and let Netgear provide the setup guides and documentation then I am sure customers would be happy to sort themselves out as they would with any other router they bought, or any other electrical appliance. The problem is that VM are using support as an excuse not to provide services and features.

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

Close. VM is concerned with spending as little money as possible. The way they figure it, preventing ANY unnecessary calls in is a way to save money. Less calls means less agents. Even people calling in to get told to phone netgear is something Virgin probably feels they could avoid, though I'm sure they have branding to consider as well.

When I was working there, admittedly a call centre, you got the distinct impression that they did everything possible to reduce trouble calls. In a weird way, if the call centre was taking less calls, they felt they were doing something right.

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

I'm not aware of any of the official guidance with any of the broadband kit issued by VM is to contact the OEM (excluding software services). Virgin Media fully support the SuperHubs within their defined functions. In fact Virgin Media have brought a lot of the 3rd party device support into the main tech support centres, where it used to be part of the Digital Home Support service.

Saying that, there is alway a focus to reduce those calls that aren't needed, but only where that information can be provided more efficiently via other channels, such as online help, chat, or forums. Where people need to speak to Virgin Media, they'll always be able to do so.

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

"anticipated to feature the latest 802.11ac spec with support for wireless local network (WLAN) speeds of up to 1300Mbps."

"NetGear C6250 Specification Physical Interfaces
Wi-Fi – AC1600"

I see they're at it again...

Seems to be pretty much an exact match for the BT Home Hub 5. Wouldn't be surprised if it was the same wireless chip inside it.

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

so when you think the Superhub 3 Trial date going to be?

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

Which trial-Internal,External,alpha or beta? ;)

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

I'd try that for a dollar.

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

You forget the order is
External, Internal, then External again.

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

Virgin are just the best....... :p

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

Now that you mention it for download speeds indeed they are.

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

Except in those parts of the country where there are faster providers or the other half of the country where you can't get their service at all.

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

All 160,000-ish premises, 62,000+ of which were subsidised by taxpayers, majority of the rest flats or community schemes. BT's own funded overbuild is scarcely more than a trial.

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

Perhaps. But I'm in the 12.5million-ish premises where VM haven't bothered providing any infrastructure at all, and BT FTTC is far better than the only VM option of ADSL2+ (and even that has been mostly withdrawn)

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

it's a shame there isnt a special divison of VM whose sole purpose is devoted to infrastructure and expansion. As well as upgrading the existing network they could do with a seperate team of peeps who have a 10 year plan to expand the network to 20% beyond its current boundaries (e.g. as far as the next two villages). VM are going to get to a point where they realised they never going to increase their customer numbers until they open themselves up to a new market.

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

No point, it would take years and years to make money back from the cost of digging up the roads, by that time we will all be using mobile 5g dongles and we will talk of the old days using cables

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

good point

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

Unless VM have a fortune teller on the staff there is no reason to think fixed line is going anywhere any time soon.

More likely is that VM don't want to spend the cash and wait to make the returns alongside some regulatory concerns.

---------- Post added at 19:18 ---------- Previous post was at 19:08 ----------

Well VM have hardly built anything. Doesn't change that BT's network is a steaming pile of crap almost everywhere they haven't had public money handed to them, or that their headline download speed is a joke compared to VM's with no real room for them to go faster.

No idea why you are excusing BT. You and I are in Openreach monopoly areas and they are gladly serving up a service delivered as cheaply as possible because of it. At least VM have responded to competition, BT won't even discuss delivering faster services unless someone else is picking up the bill.

Swisscom spent more in a year in a served area the size of Greater London that BT did in the entire UK in 3, and at current spend levels VM will have spent as much on upgrading their existing network in 4 years as BT did building their entire Next Generation Access network per home passed.

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

There are rumours around that they are looking at some areas to start building, linked into voice over cable. Possibly part of the 1 billion pound spend that their CEO mentioned last week?

Sirius may know more

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

AFAIK, that voice over cable project also involves putting DSLAMS into street cabinets. It's a few months since I gleaned that so I'm not up to date and I think it was initially for business services.

Someone will know, though I suspect that VM insiders will not comment publicly about DSLAMs.

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

Yep, it's an Openreach monopoly area because Openreach bothered building a fibre network here and Virgin Media didn't.

Competition? VM could be competing but they're not willing to do any building either unless it's handed to them on a plate. Nonetheless, they did have the option of LLU'ing FTTC but it seems they couldn't be bothered in the end either.

Nah. I'm not excusing BT. I'm just pointing out a "steaming pile of crap" network that delivers a fast and reliable service beats even the best and most amazing network that can't deliver any service at all.

---------- Post added at 19:52 ---------- Previous post was at 19:51 ----------

If that's what they're planning perhaps that's why they abandoned their LLU rollout.

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

Why would VoIP using PCMM involve installing DSLAMs in street cabinets? I'm at a loss as to why VM would want to use VDSL though I've heard those rumours too. First heard rumours about putting this kit in street cabinets in the mid-2000s. There is absolutely nothing for VM to gain by doing this. It would be pointless either in cabled or non-cabled areas.

The plans for VoIP are real and do not require any additional hardware in the field, it's all at hubsites/headends and new CPE for the home.

---------- Post added at 20:41 ---------- Previous post was at 20:25 ----------

What exactly would having a GEA cablelink do for VM? They could supply the same things everyone else supplies over the same last mile network. I can't blame them for abandoning the idea, there's no real option there to differentiate themselves.

Sadly some companies don't inherit a ton of ducting, etc, that allows them to build a 'fibre network' covering 19 million premises for 1.3 billion quid in CapEx. To build a cable or FTTP network in a new area you're looking at, best case, maybe 750 GBP - 1k GBP per home passed.

BT's 'fibre network' was less than years of VM's cable upgrade bill per home passed to build. When you compare less than 70 GBP per home passed with ten times that it's not really that surprising that VM aren't busting a gut to build in new areas. Some companies actually have to dig throughout to build 'fibre networks' rather than using pre-existing civils for the most part.

So if we're talking about companies who only build when it's handed to them on a plate we don't need to look any farther.

These ********* had an amazing opportunity to deploy really fibre-deep next generation access networks, following a hybrid model such as the one in Switzerland where they deployed fibre to the street in more rural areas, basically to distribution points, alongside FTTP in urban areas.

Instead they spend more on football per year than they did on their fibre-to-the-press-release network and deployed something that has no real upgrade path without extensive hardware changes and which Virgin will outperform both downstream and upstream by next year.

It's a mess when your telco has the money to put bids in on sports rights that make even Murdoch's boys grimace but stubbornly refuses to invest in being a 21st century telco.

I'm actually annoyed that BT deployed their FTTC here, had they not done so we'd probably be looking at an FTTP build this year.

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

Of one thing I'm certain - and that is at the beginning of the year, VM were planning the deployment of DSLAMs to the street. It went quiet and I've no more information other than there was a business customer aspect to the programme. Whether or not they've canned it, I don't know.

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

Given how much virgin has had to invest in its network just to get it up to scratch, I'm actually glad they're not building out just yet. Seems a few of us have forgotten how bad Virgin used to be just a couple of years ago - congestion, horrendous STM, overcapacity on huge swathes of the network that wasn't dealt with for literally years.

It's still not quite there in a number of areas, but the improvements have been clear. Had they invested that money in building out, I don't think they'd be in anywhere near as strong as a position they are today.

Plus, we all know that there's a new DOCSIS version due soon and probably more in the pipeline after that. That's going to require investment and it probably makes sense to hang tight, invest in what they've got and keep improving before building out more. After all, it's not like they own 90% of the market where they're available.

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

I think they said they had scrapped that idea in one of their investor calls last year.

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

Not quite the same. All houses have a phone line, it's easy to upgrade the lines to fttc. Having to dig up every road would cost billions

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

I think tbb claimed that the HS2 rollout is costing us roughly what it would cost to blanket the country in FTTP.

Re: Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?
 

Having to dig up the road to install a new cabinet, pay the copper line rental, along with the SLU fees, pay for backhaul to the exchange / PoP, etc, etc, isn't any better.

LGI haven't deployed this anywhere else and they make a big deal of their network being a USP. Deploying FTTC would completely do away with that USP. They would have to deploy the same VDSL 2 over the same 17a band plan that Openreach do with the same power masking, etc.

LGI canned VM's plan to use BT's FTTC network as they wanted to concentrate on the cable network. Be bizarre indeed to not just use BT's copper but also overbuild their FTTC overlay having stated a desire to concentrate on the cable network.

The only thing I can think of that VM may want to put into street cabinets is fibre nodes to go to an FTTLA architecture in their on-net areas. To deploy VDSL 2 off-net would seem to be nuts.

---------- Post added at 22:32 ---------- Previous post was at 22:25 ----------

I have actually thought of something that VM would use DSLAMs for - ultrafast FTTP services delivered over PON or Metro Ethernet.

Those I can understand - Comcast and Rogers in North America come to mind immediately.