Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

I see a number of posting on DS pushing for a Horizon box, seems that this "side" has no interest in it. My wife loves it. Me, I would want it if it wasn`t my main box these days :)

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

Morning Itshim and nice to see you on here again and the answer to your question is its not a question of whether or not people are interested in it as everybody has differing opinions as we all know but the fact is the TiVo has been here for a period now and the vast majority of customers love it unless of course they are on the other side of course ;):waving: but the fact remains is one a lot of money has been spent rolling the TiVo out and at least half of Virgin's customers must have one in their household now and two why change something that has been a glowing success because if you roll out new boxes that's going to cost quite a bit to roll out with no promise that it will be a success either.

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

For me, the downside of TiVo is the lack of real time updated programme guide. VM said it may come eventually. Does the Horizon box have this?

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

The Horizon box seems very good in some ways (eg the multiple tuners) but there is too little recording space. If they could upgrade Horizon to provide 1 or 2 TB of recording space, I would certainly be interested, but not until.

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

Thing is though Den, that LG have put plenty of their money behind Horizon while Tivo is a product they've 'aquired' with VM. Add that to the fact that the Tivo will have an ongoing licensing fee then I think we can all see that with the roll out of Horizon continuing in new markets the days (years?) of Tivo will be numbered. If LG thought Tivo was such a good product then surely they'd either of been using it already, or would be cutting their losses with Horizon and moving to Tivo. Neither of these seem to of happened or be happening. One of the nails in the Tivo coffin in my eyes is the complete lack of UI development, performance improvement or bug fixes - but I'm still in the 'should have put a 1TB drive in the V+' camp.

Cheers

Grim

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

I think many customers are still awaiting the natural replacement for the V+ box. TiVo isn't it, it's something higher. I want a V+ with a bigger HDD, and a better interface. Extra tuners would be welcome but nothing more, no wish lists, no undelete facilities and certainly no subscription money going to TiVo Inc.

TiVo is fantastic, but only for those that want it. What VM needs is a modern PVR for those that just want to record Corrie while they're watching the football in the HD world.

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

Why is that an issue?

TiVo does exactly that. No-one is forcing you to use all the additional features.

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

Ben. Bundling the TiVo tax into 'Collections' might fool some, but not everyone.

Your second point: If we turn off all the additional features, what are we being forced to pay the TiVo tax for (and we are)? Also you're incorrectly assuming that people have the slightest idea WHY their hard drive is filling up with SH** they haven't asked to be recorded, never mind how to stop it. TiVo is a high end product that is being forced on people who don't need or want it. They just want to be able to record Easties in HD while they watch the Tennis in HD. Nothing more.

So the Horizon box looks interesting...

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

The V+HD box has a 'tax' if you aren't on XL (and there used to be one there too), it just happens to go back to Virgin Media. I wouldn't be surprised if there is a 'tax' on Horizon compared with TV prices not including it.

See above.

Your hard drive doesn't 'fill up' with anything you haven't set TiVo to record. Suggestions don't count towards your available space, nor do they stop planned recordings from happening

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

Ben, without doubt you are a mighty VM sales droid and I know I am never, ever going to change your opinion.

However. As an 'early adopter' with a house full of the latest, most desirable tech. I need a PVR but don't want to waste my money on a TiVo subscription that would give me nothing I need over my V+ subscription. Of the 3 TiVo families I know 2 of them have relegated the box to the bedroom, the other has no choice as it's their only box. All of them don't like it.

I'm so pleased I swerved it. I registered for early updates (early adopter who spends far too much on tech). It's popular with forum types, but not in the wider community.

VM needs to address the needs of the wider community. I'm not saying that TiVo shouldn't be available to those that want it, but the Horizon box seems to address a wider need.

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

Considering that according to LGI's last results, 44% of VM's TV base is on TiVo, and 14,000 added weekly, I don't think it'll be long before it's over 50%, so TiVo will be the 'wider community'.

And I can't see either VM or LGI wanting to have three different techology systems running on the network (Liberate, TiVo and whatever Horizon runs on), it would be a support nightmare.

In regards to Horizon 'addressing a wider need', you seem to focusing on 'won't have a TiVo tax'. There is zero guarantee that it would be cheaper than TiVo.

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

When all else fails, use ad hominem attacks and unverifiable anecdotes......;)

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

Indeed. I've never claimed that VM aren't railroading customers into TiVo, they are. But they're unhappy. I'm sure your stats are correct though.

If Horizon isn't cheaper than TiVo then you're right, it won't be a viable alternative and won't address the wider audience. I'm not a supporter of Horizon particularly, I'd just like to see an upgrade for my V+ box.

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

If Horizon boxes are LG's own, then there is no doubt in my mind that at a point in the near future, they will be pushing them on to us and TiVo boxes will go.

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

Nothing else is failing Hugh so there's absolutely no need for you to intercede unless you have anything to contribute to the debate, which is being held in good spirit and with respect.

---------- Post added at 16:21 ---------- Previous post was at 16:18 ----------

I agree to an extent. They will (hopefully) become mainstream but I think that TiVo will still be offered as an option to those who want to pay extra for the stuff that it does.

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

What, record shows based on various criteria, whoopty doo.

Ben has pointed out TiVo is taken by basically half of customers, so why on earth would a box that UPC hasn't even rolled out in countries that they've operated in for years become the norm. TiVo is a fiver for christ sake, have one less pint a week or something.

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

I know some people act like its really expensive, when it just isn't I have two of them haven't had to sell my children to pay for them.

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

I'm sure the R&D + development costs for Horizon would be more that the per user costs of TiVo. If they are not then your looking at a product that is under developed and under resourced.

I wouldn't be surprised if a server based TiVo developed system replaces the lot. Thin client style.

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

And where are your statistics, apart from 'someone i know said' that shows this?

Most of the customer feedback Virgin Media get about TiVo is positive, and where there are issues, Virgin Media have listened and made changes where possible e.g. Reminders. Some of what is still outstanding is reliant on core TiVo changes, so VM (and other companies that use TiVo) are reliant on TiVo making those updates.

Overall, apart from some temporary gaps, TiVo is popular.

What you mean is 'I just want a bigger hard drive in a V+ HD box'. Isn't going to ever happen. Even if VM hadn't gone for TiVo, whatever they had done would have worked differently to the V boxes, just because there no point making a new platform work like the one they are replacing.

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

Ben has pointed out something we all know, VM are railroading (through the use of Collections) people into a box they don't want.

An extra pint a week seems FAR better value to me and many others.

The Horizon box may not become the norm. I just hope it does to address us 'middle market' TV customers who are currently bouncing between Sky and VM.

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

:clap:

I have three of the buggers and they are worth every penny

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

Well there you go Ben. You can dismiss the problem or you can address it. Clearly my opinion doesn't matter because the bubble I live in isn't the same as what your survey says.

Your assertion that TiVo is popular just because it is well distributed is far too simplistic. My experience is that it isn't. I fully understand that 'forum types' love it, others don't.

Oh and the bigger HDD in a V+ box is possible, it has been well documented on these forums. VM are currently forcing people to do this as they don't have a viable alternative.

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

We have two and compared to what we had before they are a huge step up in every way.

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

Heh heh. Setting aside the current debate, how can you justify three TiVos? Do you own an apartment block? An old people's home? What?

Most people struggle to understand why anyone would want one, let alone three???

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

People have families you know so having three TiVo's is quite easy as there is the frontroom , The main bedroom and the childrens bedroom or if you have relatives who stay with you on a regular basis.:erm:

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

I love my TiVo. Far superior to something like the V+.

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

Nothing stranger than folk, everyone who seen what my TIVO can do has expressed interest in replacing their old VM boxes or wishing that it was available on Sky

Why would Virgin want to roll out an inferior box unless it saved them money

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

Virgin are a progressive company with some backwards customers ;)

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

All STBs have several different licence fees. But they are small compared to the hardware cost. That's what really matters.

LGI already run a whole pile of different platforms. I think there are four in Ireland alone.

Horizon is an attempt at a multinational box, but is still very new - only about 1% of LGI customers have it.

They are made by Samsung and much of the software is Cisco's. Do those names sound familiar? ;)
They'll do whatever makes business sense. I wouldn't like to guess what that will be.

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

Ben used the phrase "Most of the customer feedback Virgin Media get about TiVo is positive" would imply to me that he is not referring to how widely Tivo has been distributed, more that he is referring to Virgin not actually receiving a lot of bad feedback. He also isn't saying that Tivo does not have problems. He is merely asking you to provide something to back up your assertion that most people don't like the Tivo.

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

Indeed. You've hit the nail on the head. But the backward customers are the majority, not us forum users.

---------- Post added at 19:08 ---------- Previous post was at 18:57 ----------

Here's the survey I did in my living room tonight Stuart. Our survey asked "Do you think Tivo is poor value?" Our survey said: Yes: 100%.

Seriously, don't be absurd, I'm expressing my opinion based on my experience and interaction within my bubble. My opinions are based on that, and must be overcome by VMs marketing department if they are to retain a customer who really wants to upgrade his PVR but can see no attractive option.

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

If you are able to, I'm surprised that you don't move to sky. They have a basic functionality box, similar to V+, but with up to a 2TB hard drive. You'd get the added bonus of more channels.

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

No they aren't.

I've had the top VIP collection since it was launched. I'm still on a V+ HD and a Samsung. I've not being hassled.

The way you are going on it's as if VM are banging on peoples doors or holding children to ransom unless they swap over to Tivo.

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

Why? I'm not looking to move, I'm merely pointing out that the Horizon Box (if VM price it correctly) will meet a need that they are currently not addressing.

---------- Post added at 20:15 ---------- Previous post was at 20:05 ----------

So you, like me cannot be railroaded. Try and buy your package now as a new customer, without a TiVo. Can you? No. Of course you can't.

The children to ransom bit was strange but possibly meant something to you. I am not going on as you put it. I am merely expressing an interest in the Horizon box as it appears to meet my needs if not everyone's.

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

Just to clarify, what need is it that Horizon meets that TiVo doesn't? Avoiding the service charge?

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

As Ben has pointed out, Tivo can be just used as a standard box for recording single shows or series links from the EPG. You don't need to go near the other stuff if you don't want it/need it.

I don't get what your problem is.

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

But surely that's historical rather than on purpose?

---------- Post added at 22:06 ---------- Previous post was at 22:04 ----------

No you can't, but you aren't being railroaded as a new customer either

VM make it quite clear that all packages come with TiVo, and what TiVo is. It's then a new customer's choice whether to go with VM and TiVo or whether to go with another provider.

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

Of course. I was just pointing out LGI have bigger things to worry about than VM's two DTV platforms.

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

Yeah, that's all he cares about.

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

I think I've missed something here. It's very easy as a new customer to take services from Virgin without TiVo.

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/2200/i0a6.jpg

If you don't want TiVo take V HD box. If you want a box that records take TiVo. If the boxes that Virgin offer aren't suitable for your needs, don't join Virgin. It's very simple.

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

My one box "serves" all the TV`s - with what ever it has. Simple ;)https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2013/08/16.jpg [img]Download Failed (1)[/img]Whats not to like ?
A first for TV, and only from Cox.

TV that knows what you like and brings you new shows you'll love, with Personal Recommendations for up to 8 users. Follow the green diamond and discover TV, picked just for you!
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• • Add any premium (HBO, Cinemax, Showtime or Starz) for only $10 per month for 6 months
• Whole Home DVR
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• Switch rooms and keep watching. Pause your recorded show in one room and resume watching it in another.
• Pause live TV in any room.
• No more arguing over what to watch. Watch different live or recorded shows in different rooms all at the same time.

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

At the risk of sounding like a complete clown, what is this? I like the sound of it.

---------- Post added at 08:12 ---------- Previous post was at 08:11 ----------

I have two, one for my bedroom and one in the front room. My son uses Tv anywhere on his laptop plugged into his tv with a hdmi lead.

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

Liberty Global appear to offer it in other markets,

http://www.libertyglobal.com/PDF/hor...chure-2012.pdf


I personally don't like the Tivo offered by VM, I don't find the remote or the user interface that intuitive. The biggest bug bare I have with it is that they have removed all the nice features that it's capable of.

I guess if the Horizon box was introduced they would remove features from that too!

Why VM remove these feature is beyond my comprehension, similar thing with the Router/Hub where they have disabled the ability to port forward! Why????????????

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

But that's in the USA , its a fact that the US market is generally way in front with innovations in the TV market , a few years back I was going to the US more regular and they already had products such as whole home DVR and iPad apps something which is relatively new over here. I would argue that's available in the US from multiple providers , I used a system capable of similar a few years back from DirecTV.
Its only available in certain markets in the USA , its a Cable firm called Cox Communications.

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

Because it's not the same market. In the US, for the most part, TiVo is an add on box - so TiVo can add features without the agreement of content provders. Same as you do with some Freeview PVRs in the UK. Also in the US, what you are legally allowed to do with content is different than in the UK

Virgin Media TiVo is supplied by a UK cable provider, so features that involve content have to have agreement from the content providers themselves and work within UK copyright law.

I doubt it, unless they weren't technically possible on the VM network, or if content providers in the UK market objected to them.

You can port forward as far as I'm aware.

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

You can port forward the super hub, I did it yesterday using a handy guide on the official site. What features are missing from the UK TiVo?

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

Agreed. My Webcam is "always on" using port forwarding

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

I agree with you, passingbat. I get completely that some people can't cope with the additional features, but all they have to do is ignore them. It's dead easy to just watch Tv, record and watch recordings, that's all they need to do. It's a piece of cake. Even my wif3 can do it and she hates computers.

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

We don't have a proper reminder, we have that awful remind/record. Don't use it because I want only remind, don't want it trying to record or moaning at me, because of other things going on.

---------- Post added at 21:40 ---------- Previous post was at 21:33 ----------

I have a 1TB Tivo, it does a job, not very well in my opinion, too slow and clunky, cumbersome and a right PITA at times.

I like additional features when they work well and not slow and clunky to use.

I'm a hardware engineer myself, have been for over 24 years and also been a programmer, so not like I find the box complicated or anything, it's just slow, clunky and cumbersome.

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

http://ww2.cox.com/residential/greaterlouisiana/home.cox

Sorry only just seen this.

Check this out. I am not "knocking Tivo" just showing what is out there:)

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

I like Tivo but the Horizon UI looks far superior and more fun to use. Tivo's UI is just too slow and clunky with graphics that is more 1990 than state of the art that Horizon is using.

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

Style over substance?

Give me functionality over style any day. There is key functionality on Tivo that is missing on horizon.

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

Not just functionality, but hardware too. The Irish Horizon box ships with a smaller hard drive than the baby TiVo.

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

You see, I don't need all the functionality that Tivo offers. I got bored of the Tivo 'suggestions' after about a month. I find the thumbs up/down thing just gimmicky. I have never needed to record anything let alone use three tuners. Because the menus are so slow, I just CBA to use it.

What I want is to be able to use menus quickly, without the endless clicking to access anything. The Horizon looks like that it does it far better than Tivo and it looks stylish as well. You can watch the TV channel in full screen while accessing the menus. Tivo, you just get a crappy little box in the corner!

I hope eventually we will be going to Horizon and dumping Tivo! :D

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

You don't need to record anything? Get Vhd and save yourself some money!

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

+1

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

Sorry what am I missing - check out advanced tv plus just google cox tv. guess its elsewere but its the one I know :)

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

I was replying to gregbrighton. If you never record anything don't complain about TiVo - it's the wrong box for you!

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

What is the point of googleing CoxTV? there is no way we will be getting their box.

Sadly there is a chance we may get lumbered with the Horizon box to replace Tivo at some point in the future.

If they added Whishlists, auto recording clash resolution and upped the hard Drive capacity (and suggestions for those that want them), then the Horizon would be fine. However I think Whishlists are patented by Tivo (not sure about auto clash resolution) so not likely to happen.

All the other things that Horizon has over Tivo could be added to the Tivo box.

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

Sorry but in my opinion you've missed one of TIVO's major strengths and this coming from someone who only uses it a few times a month , Search is easily one of its best functions and is probably a market leader in the PVR market.

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

Happy to add it MM. If Netflix does get added to Tivo, then I believe the search would also bring up titles on Netflix? (as per the US Premier Tivo which the VM one is based on).

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

Exactly which makes it really handy for movie fans with multiple accounts , especially if Lovefilm and Netflix were available. VM TIVO would then return results from Netflix , Lovefilm , Sky Movies and Virgin Movies On Demand not too mention the many films aired on the numerous FTA and pay tv channels.

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

If you never need to record anything, why are you bothered about what PVR Virgin uses?

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

Tivo wouldn't be so bad if they put a rocket up its backside. Annoyingly slow and clunky.

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

My only issue is that it brings up results from accounts you don't have - ie. I don't have Sky movies so I don't want results from that service. Especially since Virgin aren't gaining from marketing it.

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

You are entitled to your opinion - I disagree with it....

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

I've just searched Jack Reacher which is currently airing on Sky Movies premiere it only finds the Sky Movies On Demand version so it must ignore linear channels you aren't subscribed to.

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

It shouldn't bring that up either though really, just a Virgin Movies listing (if its still rentable).

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

Yes, but that's my point. Because I don't have the channels I don't have on demand, so I don't want those results returned either.

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

I understand what your saying , I guess that's a question for spider or one of the VM staff , Sky search results return all channels and On Demand whether you subscribe or not so VM's implementation at least only shows results from the linear channel within your package.

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

Not arguing with it could be added. Just showing what is out there. the cox TV site shows what the Horizon setup could offer. Reach for the stars not a second floor apartment !!!:D

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

Actually I didn't know it did that. So I can't say whether it's by accident or design.

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

You may, and you may be happy with a slow and clunky box, but I get annoyed with boxes that are slow and the Tivo is. I've had four all the same, friends and family had them and they were same, many have had them taken back out.

It just needs speeding up, I'm used to boxes with instant feedback, not press a button, wait, press again wait, press again wait. Because if you press as you would with a decent box when the box decides to do something it then remembers all the button presses and you're likely to go past what you wanted.

Box is OK, just not slick.

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

I don't think the box is slow and clunky - you are stating an opinion as fact, and basing your proposition on what I regard as an incorrect premise.

You can repeat it as many times as you wish - doesn't make it a fact.....

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

Well it's a FACT ALL the Tivo boxes I've used are slow and clunky.

I am used to using other boxes that have instant feedback. The Tivo compared to other non-cable boxes ARE slow.

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

Why don't you move to a box that meets your needs/requirements, then - everybody wins...

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

Cos VM hasn't brought one out yet.

Tivo just needs to boost it's speed and it wouldn't be so bad.

I have 3 Linux based satellite boxes that I'm more than happy with, do all I want with the programs I download to them and they are many times faster than the Tivo.

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

Pleased you have found a solution that works for you...

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

Yes, but my main UK subscription service is VM because I don't have BT Infinity in the area yet, so remain with VM for broadband and have the TV too, the Tivo is good idea, just needs speeding up.

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

Can the OP inform as why he has used "forum"?

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

I find my TiVo much quicker than my V+... :confused:

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

Really do not understand how Tivo can be called slow and clunky...

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

Indeed Andrew that is indeed the case as the TiVo is far superior to anything that has come before and even many Sky customers would give their eye teeth for it.

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

But people are entitled to their opinions, based on their personal preferences.....

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

Indeed they are Hugh and if we all had the same dislikes and likes then life would be quite boring.

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

Nor do I, but perhaps TIVO's performance can be affected by issues such as signal strength. Mine works fine.

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

Have to admit when I lived in Telford it was faster than the addresses in Birmingham I have lived and visited.

Re: Other "forum" pushing for Horizon box
 

You may have something there. All my VM STB's were slow, clunky and needed at least one daily reboot. I am sure my area suffered from some kind of infrastructure issue :(

My Sky+HD box although, according to what I read, lacking some of Tivo's features does exactly what I require in a thoroughly responsive manner while a faux pas requiring a reboot or a planner rebuild is a very rare event. :)