Should the coal mines in the UK be reopened?
 

Would it be in the interest of this country to create hundreds of thousands of jobs for the people of this country, the people who are looking for jobs, but cannot find any?:shrug:

Re: Should the coal mines in the UK be reopened?
 

No.

Fossil fuel should be got rid of not encouraged.

edit - besides I doubt it'd economically viable.

Mind you I am surprised the DWP haven't taken this as an idea for job seekers to do 'training'.

Re: Should the coal mines in the UK be reopened?
 

It would create jobs for people:Yes::Yes:

Re: Should the coal mines in the UK be reopened?
 

If to reactivate the mines was viable it would.

Why haven't they already been reactivated if there's profit in it?

Besides I thought you would care about the environment?

Re: Should the coal mines in the UK be reopened?
 

To ask this question displays a complete lack of understanding of local economies.

I live in South Wales, I would love to see the mines re-opened as I live near some of the worst unemployment blackspots in the UK.

But why do you think they closed in the first place? Maggie felt like annoying some taffs?

Re: Should the coal mines in the UK be reopened?
 

The thing is a lot of time has passed since most our mines were closed and in that time there have been advancements in clean power from coal. There are massive resources still left underground which could provide clean electricity for a great number of years the only problem of course is cost. Mind you if we do get out of the EU and stop paying foreign aid for a few years that would easily cover the costs

Re: Should the coal mines in the UK be reopened?
 

I do care about the environment, very much so, but there is years and years of coal waiting to be mined, i think it cost more to import the coal from Germany our own countries people are looking for work, work they cannot find, i am sure the reopening of the mines would benefit everyone in this country, i am sure it would create profit, it would create jobs, it would get people back into work, paying into the tax system, and bring communities together again just my belief:)

Re: Should the coal mines in the UK be reopened?
 

Well I don't think it would help or happen.

BUT I do think your idea has merit, but I don't think opening mines is the answer - maybe put the money into something longer lasting. Even if you do get the coal out it's not going to last all that long.

Research into fusion maybe then we can get the people you mention building power stations like that.

Either way as I say it'd only be a temporary help with regards jobs. And I bet it would take a while to sort out - longer than the current government have left in power (potentially) and so I bet they wouldn't do it.

Re: Should the coal mines in the UK be reopened?
 

You may find this informative...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...iness-21704643

http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/64...coal-industry/

Re: Should the coal mines in the UK be reopened?
 

The way i see it is that opening mines cannot be financially viable or the people that run mines now would open them .Also if we did go backwards to using coal on a large scale then it would discourage research into other energy sources simply because it wouldn't be as urgent ,Fracking will have the same effect imo .We have recently discovered massive quantities of shale gas that will alleviate the need to import so much gas but that is only a stop gap and in 50yrs or so we will be back to square one panicking about where the 'leccy is going to come from.

Re: Should the coal mines in the UK be reopened?
 

Do you know why they were closed in the first place?

Re: Should the coal mines in the UK be reopened?
 

Yes, Margaret Thatcher and Arthur Scargill:(:argue:

Re: Should the coal mines in the UK be reopened?
 

Nothing to do with Economics and Cost of Production, then?

You may find this info from the NUM useful...

http://num.org.uk/History-NumHistory...-industry.html These things happened before Thatcher or Scargill were in Office.

Re: Should the coal mines in the UK be reopened?
 

that about sums up the strike lol but not the closures

Re: Should the coal mines in the UK be reopened?
 

No! just a woman with power, and a man who didn't like being told what to do especially from a woman!:o:

Re: Should the coal mines in the UK be reopened?
 

Oh.....my.....word....:banghead:

Re: Should the coal mines in the UK be reopened?
 

Repeated from previous page..

Re: Should the coal mines in the UK be reopened?
 

If the coal could be used at a very high efficiency with no pollution then yes.

If the coal could be produced at a much lower overall cost than other sources then yes.

If people actually wanted the very hard life of a miner then yes.

If we had fears that we could no longer source our fuel needs from abroad then yes.

Re: Should the coal mines in the UK be reopened?
 

Opening the coal mines won't address the problem of future power shortages and blackouts.

Re: Should the coal mines in the UK be reopened?
 

Simple economics.

If there's money in it, it will happen.

Anything is possible with the right incentive.

Re: Should the coal mines in the UK be reopened?
 

True!:idea:

Re: Should the coal mines in the UK be reopened?
 

They can't be reopened, when the mines were allowed to flood the seams of coal will have been lost due to mixing with shale.

Re: Should the coal mines in the UK be reopened?
 

However it will not be jobs for uk people, it will be low paid slave labor for anyone from the eastern block of country's.

Re: Should the coal mines in the UK be reopened?
 

While I wouldn't agree that they had to be shut in the first place as they were only thinking bottom line and didn't consider how it could leave us relient on other countries in those calculations . Really now you couldn't viably reopen the old ones though new ones especially open cast could possibly be viable I think now you are better of throwing the money at renewables and better use of what we have (led lighting insulation etc)

Re: Should the coal mines in the UK be reopened?
 

I worked for the British Coal Opencast Executive up to the time that it was privatised and the coalmines sold to Richard Budge.

It was the Opencast side of British Coal that subsidised the deep mines and kept them open.

Re: Should the coal mines in the UK be reopened?
 

Blinking Nora. Is this another miners strike / Maggie hate thread?

Re: Should the coal mines in the UK be reopened?
 

Don't know about that,


My point is that if they did open the mines again the work force would not be home grown lets be truthful. To make it pay they would have to pay slave labor wages and only the eastern block workers would accept that. Every tom, dick and harry would rush to the uk looking for a job in the mines and home grown workers would not get a look in.

Re: Should the coal mines in the UK be reopened?
 

Jeremy Kyle generation is a bit harsh. As for immigrants if they have a job then all the better, reports this week suggested we need to increase the immigrant population to deal with the increasing cost of the aging population. Ideally immigrants that stay here for 5/10/20 years and return home like a large amount of the Polish immigrants did.

Re: Should the coal mines in the UK be reopened?
 

Go home, how do you know large amounts went home, nobody bothered to count them in I doubt they'll count them out either and at all the factories we work for their not going home, ever, their here to stay.

Re: Should the coal mines in the UK be reopened?
 

:clap:

Anyway the next lot of immigrants will be picking pockets, scamming cash machines and begging in the streets if what is starting to happen to Germany happens here as well.

I know one of the links is from the fail but you get the idea

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...-a-880457.html

http://www.thestockmarketwatch.co/ge...ind-a-job.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...Romanians.html

http://www.csmonitor.com/1981/0806/080667.html

Re: Should the coal mines in the UK be reopened?
 

many in Germany are outraged,and some municipalities are paying out ridiculous amounts in benefits and housing.... crime is also high.

I wish the UK could just close it's borders to these people,mainly Gypsies.... what do they have to offer that the UK wants?? :rolleyes:

Re: Should the coal mines in the UK be reopened?
 

Nothing at all, it is going to be a one way deal. This countries benefits, housing, and healthcare, coupled with our bank details from the hole in the wall machines and our pockets when picked by there well trained teams of pick pockets.

Thanks to the EU for forcing this on us. :mad:

Re: Should the coal mines in the UK be reopened?
 

Hello Every One
I have just joined your forum !!!! I worked in the mines during the war starting January 1940 at 14 years and one month, leaving when the Essential Works Order was with drawn in 1950, I was the first of my family not work under ground [I only worked on the surface]
It seems a terrible shame to me that we only want to get the coal out to burn it, nothing else, Dr Bronowski [Not sure of the spelling] was able to make all kinds of uses from coal, Paint, Chemicals of all kinds, even saccharin, sweetener. Why has'nt more research gone into making these priceless products from it, surely young people could come up with some wonderful ideas now that would save the industry before it's gone all together. Any modern thoughts on that idea. Regards desmo11225

Re: Should the coal mines in the UK be reopened?
 

Whilst we can import coal cheaper than we would pay to mine it, it makes good sense to keep our stocks where they are.

Plus in the future there might be a more efficient way to extract the energy from it which would also be environmentally safe and not an eyesore.

Re: Should the coal mines in the UK be reopened?
 

:welcome:

Sadly its cheaper to import that dig out of the ground here.

Re: Should the coal mines in the UK be reopened?
 

If only more people had been altruistic enough to buy British produced stuff, irrespective of cost and quality, all those industries which have failed over the years would still be here. The fact is that a lot of people like to sound off about supporting British industry and jobs until doing so winds up costing them more than buying the imported equivalent.

Re: Should the coal mines in the UK be reopened?
 

The problem is North Sea Oil and Gas came on stream. Its a lot easier to make chemicals from that base than from coal.

---------- Post added at 22:23 ---------- Previous post was at 22:21 ----------

If (rather than when) coal prices rise strongly, then UK mines will become cost effective again and they can be reopened.

The big difference is that a lot of UK coal is deep mining, whereas imports ten to be from opencast mines, which are a lot cheaper to operate.

---------- Post added at 22:28 ---------- Previous post was at 22:23 ----------

Fact is if you can't sell to your own market, what hope have you got of selling internationally?

Re: Should the coal mines in the UK be reopened?
 

There are a bunch of foreign cars I would buy ahead of the British brands (are there even any left?)

Re: Should the coal mines in the UK be reopened?
 

Define "British".

Jaguar and Land Rover are owned by India's Tata Steel, but design, develop and build all their cars in the UK. They have in fact just finished building a massive new engine plant near Telford.

Toyota has a factory at Burnaston near Derby building the Avensis and Auris.

Vauxhall still build Astras at Ellesmere Port

Nissan has its plant at Sunderland, which makes half a million cars a year

Bentley, despite being VW owned, still builds its cars in Crewe

Honda has a factory in Swindon building the Civic and CR-V

So we still make a fair few cars, including many that actually sell!

Re: Should the coal mines in the UK be reopened?
 

No I do not think so, some miners went down the pits when it was dark in the morning and came up when it was dark at night, they never seen the light of day, it is too dangerous a job and many life's were lost, People know better now a days and may not want this work,

Re: Should the coal mines in the UK be reopened?
 

As in many western societies the workers priced themselves out of their jobs.think british steel.u.s. steel. These were huge entities and employed many people but the workers did not want any reduction in their wages to compete with the cheaper eastern steel so the end was nigh.i have just been in Pittsburgh(steeltown) on holiday and visited a few steel museums and met people once employed by u.s. steel and they said if they had been a bit more flexible and met the bosses halfway there might have still been a u.s. steel business,the once mighty Carnegie homestead mill is now a shopping centre.hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Re: Should the coal mines in the UK be reopened?
 

That's the point I was making. There are those who like to bang on about protecting British jobs but choose not to buy British goods and services for one reason or another. If we had to rely on costly UK produced coal or steel, for example, I reckon most of those same people would soon be be moaning about the increased costs which would inevitably be passed on to them in one way or another.

Re: Should the coal mines in the UK be reopened?
 

The problem is there's no way to beat the Chinese and the Indians in a race to the bottom, thanks to the UK having higher anti pollution standards, not wanting workers to die quite as often and to be able to afford what is, in global terms, a very high standard of living. I'm not saying the unions are blameless, but there's more than the cost of labour.

The answer is to shift the dirty manual graft of raw material generation and simple assembly to these low wage economies and move up the value chain towards design, research/development and production of specialised equipment.

Or, to put it another way, you'll make more money building jet engines than making aluminium to make jet engines.

Re: Should the coal mines in the UK be reopened?
 

It's not easy getting wages down. Where do you start?

Now if you could reduce wages at the top end of the chain (not just the bosses but the end "producers") and then reduce the price of that end product you can start to lower wages further back as they could still afford to new lower priced end product and that reduces the prices of their intermediary and so on.

Problem comes is that wages get reduced but prices don't follow, just more profit then the benefit isn't felt.

OK I'm not stating this very well.

An issue was that wage reduction started back at the raw material level, so those workers were worse off in pocket and the things to buy remained expensive as reductions in price if any hadn't flowed through.

Re: Should the coal mines in the UK be reopened?
 

HA, not sure putting job seekers down re-opened mines would be a good idea these days. They would not hack it. When i was working down there, they sent commandos down there as part of their conditional training in adverse conditions. HA, they could not waite to get above ground. And that was just a tour for them, they did not have to knock off a stent of coal.

Re: Should the coal mines in the UK be reopened?
 

The thing is that kind of deep mining is simply no longer sustainable, because its labour intensive and produces good quality, but very expensive coal.

Most of the mines that are still going in the UK are open cast. Much more visually/environmentally disruptive, but a funkload cheaper.

Re: Should the coal mines in the UK be reopened?
 

Yes, and less dangerous. Worked both, up and down. Lady windsor colliery and Ryans reclamation at Aberfan S.Wales.

Re: Should the coal mines in the UK be reopened?
 

Just seen this section. In my opinion is YES. Without any question. There are still seams of coal to be cut.

It would benefit so many people OAPs, create jobs in some of the worst Jobless hotspots in the country

It was That old woman who ruined the coal industry, as she wanted to get rid of the NUM and Arthur Scargill wanted to save jobs

Yes, we import coal, but at the end of the day, its jobs that are needed in this country. And opening the pits would create wealth for the local towns

It really gets my goat when they talk about the costs of opening mines again will cost a fortune.
Look what this country would save on benefits. Must be billions per year

Trouble is that IF the idea would be put to the Government, it would be a kick in the teeth for Thatcher. And the Tories wouldn't do that, would they

Re: Should the coal mines in the UK be reopened?
 

The mines can't be reopened, they flood and shale ruins any coal seams it comes across, it was an act of vandalism not to protect this asset for future generations, especially as what's happened was all to predictable, it was also criminal the amount of equipment that was left down there, lots of it shiny new.

Re: Should the coal mines in the UK be reopened?
 

Thing is Arthur, if we re open these mines and start digging out tonnes of anthracite, what are we going to do with it?

You can't burn it for electricity thanks to Labour's 2008 climate change act

The number of homes reliant on coal for heating is pretty minimal

Shipping and the railways haven't used coal for the thick end of 60 years

Also, it would be a monumental waste of coal. Wait until the coal price climbs again, and then look at reopening mines.

Re: Should the coal mines in the UK be reopened?
 

According to a Government sponsored report on Electricity Generation, in 2014 30% was still being generated using coal!

Re: Should the coal mines in the UK be reopened?
 

Doesn't look like they have much of a future though:

Linky

Re: Should the coal mines in the UK be reopened?
 

True, I was making the point in answer to a previous post that there was currently a significant amount of electricity being generated in the UK using coal.

However the important word in the link ref closure of coal fired power stations is "considering", nowhere near a done deal yet! With successive governments of either party being very poor at long term energy planning and execution their life will probably extend well after the projected date for closure.

Re: Should the coal mines in the UK be reopened?
 

It is true that, as it stands, coal is a massive supplier to grid. However when you see how many coal power stations have closed without replacement, and the money going in to nuclear (which supplies the same kind of steady baseload capacity as coal does) then you can't really rely on power stations as a source of demand in the long term.

Also, what's the point in reopening coal mines at the bottom of the market? You might as well leave the coal there until the price starts to rise.

Re: Should the coal mines in the UK be reopened?
 

As l have already said, yes, it is a long time since the Mines were closed. But wouldn't it be better for this country on the Job front.

Britain used to be the pride of great Industries. The mines could do so much, Oil companies spend thousands of pounds in drilling for new oil fields.

Why cant we do that. At the end of the day, we have young adults that could work at the mines, solving the jobless situation and OAPs could benefit with cheap fuel.

I cannot see any problems with producing coal in this country.

Instead of importing it - we can produce it ourself

Re: Should the coal mines in the UK be reopened?
 

Scargill was just as guilty as Thatcher. If he'd kept his ego in check he could of won but he played right into thatchers hands

Lions led by donkeys

Re: Should the coal mines in the UK be reopened?
 

Not Really

If you haven't noticed, the world oil price is down as well, leading to lost jobs in the oil and gas industry. Also, oil and gas are in much higher demand than coal.

Mining is skilled, dangerous and most of all deeply unattractive work. You can't just send Job Centre Johnny off underground. It's going to cost millions and take years to train them and for what? Coal mining is a dying industry, and has been since the 1970s. You might as well train them as betamax video repairmen for all the use it'll be.

As for OAPs benefiting from cheap fuel, how many people actually have a proper fireplace at home any more? 85% of homes use gas. You can't burn lumps of coal in a gas boiler.


There are many. Our deep mines are expensive and inefficient for one thing.


Why would you dig coal out of the ground here for (say) £120/tonne when you can buy it from the open market for £80/tonne?

Re: Should the coal mines in the UK be reopened?
 

Because Arthur thinks it's a good idea and it'll give him an excuse for blaming the Tories for the extra costs which will have to be made up from higher taxes and/or prices in one way or another.

Re: Should the coal mines in the UK be reopened?
 

It has nothing to do with Thatcher/ Cameron bashing. All parts of the UK need jobs. I went to Wales many years ago, and went to clean many kitchens in the Valleys.

I think the best time l went there - in the mining areas was the friendliness of the miners, and l had to clean a Van known as the Miners Chippy, - The Mobile Chippie. These areas have now been shut through political ways.

Communities need work, that's why l believe Coal Mines should reopen with Government support.

Each year we send billions of OUR money abroad. We could use that, Training - yes, the government say we can retrain - why not for the mining community.

IF, Job Centre out ads out looking for Miners - l believe that the queue would be big. Its a job, it will pay the bills.

I cannot think of a better idea.

Re: Should the coal mines in the UK be reopened?
 

If you can't think of a better idea, then you can't really be thinking hard enough.

The world has an OVERsupply of coal currently. That is, the world is producing MORE coal than it needs, hence why the price is in free fall.

If you were going to reopen UK mines, then you'd want to do it when there was an UNDERsupply of coal. That is, the world is producing LESS coal than it needs, and the price is rising.

Trying to go against the world market is like trying to turn back the tide with stern language and a shovel.

In simple terms, it would be cheaper for the Government not to even bother digging the coal out of the ground and simply pay the payroll every month.

Re: Should the coal mines in the UK be reopened?
 

Obviously you have never heard of COPD, Emphysema, Noise Induced Hearing Loss, or Vibration White Finger.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/special_r...ases/49984.stm

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vibration_white_finger

https://www.gov.uk/coal-health-compensation-claims

Let's send our kids down the mines to be permanently disabled - Arthur thinks it's a good idea...

Re: Should the coal mines in the UK be reopened?
 

:shocked: :angel: