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-   -   The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33692698)

Damien 27-03-2013 09:06
The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-21946916

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp...01ae5a11a8.181

They had this already for users from outside the UK, I got caught up in whilst behind an American proxy, but now it's being extended to users within the UK. You will get 20 free articles a month and then you need to pay £2 a month for unlimited access or £20 a year. £10 a month also grants you access to their digital applications. It's the same price as The Times for the equivalent digital pack but The Times doesn't offer the website online option.

Good I say. The current situation of free news is unsustainable and damaging. Instead of news and journalism we are increasingly getting link-bait opinion pieces. Who needs to learn and know about a news situation when you can hear but a columnist has to say about it instead? Who needs analysis when you can hear what readers reckon?

Although at this point I am beginning to wish there was a one single place I could subscribe too. It would be weird to have news sources you can't access after growing up with the Internet as it is.

Gary L 27-03-2013 09:28
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
LOL @ The Sun.

tizmeinnit 27-03-2013 09:50
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
I will never pay to get news online

Damien 27-03-2013 09:52
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tizmeinnit (Post 35553511)
I will never pay to get news online
News costs to produce. It's not free to make, if nobody pays then it can't survive.

denphone 27-03-2013 09:56
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tizmeinnit (Post 35553511)
I will never pay to get news online
For once tiz l agree with you.:nono::nono: and there are still many excellent free news sources out there for many of us still to browse at.

---------- Post added at 09:56 ---------- Previous post was at 09:54 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35553513)
News costs to produce. It's not free to make, if nobody pays then it can't survive.
Trouble is Damien where will it all end as there's only a finite amount of readers who can afford these monthly subscriptions.

Damien 27-03-2013 10:00
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35553515)

Trouble is Damien where will it all end as there's only a finite amount of readers who can afford these monthly subscriptions.
People had to pay to get news before. It's not new. Also if they can't afford it then they can't have it. People don't have a right to free quality news. Who pays for it otherwise? It will just go away because no one will be getting paid to produce it...

tizmeinnit 27-03-2013 10:01
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35553513)
News costs to produce. It's not free to make, if nobody pays then it can't survive.
Sky manage through advertising they do not have a paper to sell. BBC manage quite well without advertising. To much news is bad for your health anyway lol

---------- Post added at 10:01 ---------- Previous post was at 10:00 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35553521)
People had to pay to get news before. It's not new. Also if they can't afford it then they can't have it. People don't have a right to free quality news. Who pays for it otherwise? It will just go away because no one will be getting paid to produce it...
Quality news ?? now there is an oxymoron if ever I seen one lol

Damien 27-03-2013 10:05
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tizmeinnit (Post 35553522)
Sky manage through advertising they do not have a paper to sell. BBC manage quite well without advertising. To much news is bad for your health anyway lol
Sky have subscription and their TV channel drives the whole thing. Their website isn't great or in much depth. BBC have the licence fee.

Chris 27-03-2013 10:11
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35553515)
Trouble is Damien where will it all end as there's only a finite amount of readers who can afford these monthly subscriptions.
The Telegraph's web-only option is £2 a month. That's less than 7p per day. I know the recession's bad, but honestly, the number of people for whom that is a major problem really is not enormous.

As Damien has said, the problem here is that the internet was founded on the open sharing of information. The error our major publishers made was in not charging for their online content from the outset. They have helped to embed the something-for-nothing culture that is now screwing them.

tizmeinnit 27-03-2013 10:16
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35553524)
Sky have subscription and their TV channel drives the whole thing. Their website isn't great or in much depth. BBC have the licence fee.
so we have news provided with what we pay or in the case of Sky what others pay that is good enough for me :)

Osem 27-03-2013 10:18
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
We'll all be reduced to posting links from the BBC.

Chris 27-03-2013 10:19
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tizmeinnit (Post 35553528)
so we have news provided with what we pay or in the case of Sky what others pay that is good enough for me :)
I must admit, I have taken to reading the Telegraph a lot over the past few months and having done so, I find the BBC's coverage, while far greater in breadth, is lacking somewhat in depth. Their comment and analysis in particular is a bit bland, especially on political issues, presumably because they are at pains not to be seen to be supporting one side or the other. At least when someone's being brazenly partisan you can engage with it and decide whether you agree with them or think they're spouting guff.

danielf 27-03-2013 10:21
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35553498)
You will get 20 free articles a month
This is the only problem I have with it. This means you will still have idiots reading the rag and posting links to 'articles' here. It's far better to charge for all articles.

Osem 27-03-2013 10:36
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
Charging for all articles would be a bit like charging to enter a shop wouldn't it? At least by offering free access to some of their output they have a chance to persuade new readers it's worth subscribing to.

danielf 27-03-2013 10:45
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35553543)
Charging for all articles would be a bit like charging to enter a shop wouldn't it? At least by offering free access to some of their output they have a chance to persuade new readers it's worth subscribing to.
I wasn't serious. Well, not entirely anyway. I honestly wonder if the Sun even prints 20 articles a month that are worth reading. :erm:

rogerdraig 27-03-2013 11:03
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35553513)
News costs to produce. It's not free to make, if nobody pays then it can't survive.
no i would now say real news is free

if you want made up and sensationalized stuff then that does cost as they have to employ the ( i would get banned for calling them what i think of them ) so called journalists to make it up.

the amazing story of the plane landing on the river and lately the meteor / meteorite show that you can get all the information you need from the various channels twitter ect with out resorting to paid for content

Russ 27-03-2013 11:08
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35553521)
. People don't have a right to free quality news.
People requiring this are hardly likely to want to read the Sun.

I would object to this most strongly. OK paying for the news - I'm not happy at that when it has been free for so long but if they want to charge then why not, profits need to be maintained as well as those little green bottles of water for the MD's meetings.

What I object to is £10 a month. What if I think the Sun (or whatever) has gone down in quality in recent weeks? I've lost my £10. At least with the physical copy I can decide not to buy tomorrow's edition.

If they offered it on a pay-as-you-go basis I'd be much more open to the idea. But for this very reason I think they'll never offer it that way.

Chris 27-03-2013 11:18
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogerdraig (Post 35553554)
no i would now say real news is free

if you want made up and sensationalized stuff then that does cost as they have to employ the ( i would get banned for calling them what i think of them ) so called journalists to make it up.

the amazing story of the plane landing on the river and lately the meteor / meteorite show that you can get all the information you need from the various channels twitter ect with out resorting to paid for content
CCTV of a plane crash or a flood of tweets about a meteorite can tell you that *something* has happened, but you need someone with experience and contacts to pull the story together. Those people need to be paid for their time.

If you want to live in a dumbed-down universe where all that matters is a couple of one liners and some grainy video footage, then that's fine, but the reality is, you are never going to know what's really going on in the world, or have access to enough information to decide for yourself, without paid journalists doing the legwork for you.

Russ 27-03-2013 11:32
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
Playing devil's advocate (plus acknowledging I don't know how these things work), what's wrong with the money they get from selling physical copies as well as the income from online advertisers?

Maggy 27-03-2013 11:32
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
Dumbed down? Frankly all the news is now dumbed down.The present owners aren't prepared to pay the money necessary to really provide a good standard of journalism.I wouldn't mind paying IF standards overall actually improved.:erm:

Damien 27-03-2013 11:34
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggy J (Post 35553562)
Dumbed down? Frankly all the news is now dumbed down.The present owners aren't prepared to pay the money necessary to really provide a good standard of journalism.I wouldn't mind paying IF standards overall actually improved.:erm:
It's dumbed down partly because they're trying to generate page-views.

Maggy 27-03-2013 11:40
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35553563)
It's dumbed down partly because they're trying to generate page-views.
It's all been dumbed down for years because news proprietors have cut everything to bare bones in the name of profit..Even news sources have been severely reduced to cut costs.They are now losing money on hard copies so have to start charging on the internet versions to try and maintain what profits they can..However they have failed entirely to realise that the internet is used by people who aren't that keen to pay for what was free originally and will just go and find another 'free' version.

rogerdraig 27-03-2013 11:41
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35553559)
CCTV of a plane crash or a flood of tweets about a meteorite can tell you that *something* has happened, but you need someone with experience and contacts to pull the story together. Those people need to be paid for their time.

If you want to live in a dumbed-down universe where all that matters is a couple of one liners and some grainy video footage, then that's fine, but the reality is, you are never going to know what's really going on in the world, or have access to enough information to decide for yourself, without paid journalists doing the legwork for you.
after my dealing with them i am quite happy to do the leg work myself i found more video than sky or the bbc put out on meteorite most of it less grainy than their efforts plus didnt have to listen to stupid people asking inane questions

the dumbing down imho opinion is being caused by these journalists

Damien 27-03-2013 11:47
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ (Post 35553561)
Playing devil's advocate (plus acknowledging I don't know how these things work), what's wrong with the money they get from selling physical copies as well as the income from online advertisers?
Online advertising makes no money really. The only way it works at a large scale which requires pages that are very cheap to produce and are hit often. It's expensive to produce a page on a news site which is why we're increasingly seeing link-bait blogs or picture gallerys. How many times have you seen "The Ten Best [whatever]" on a news site? They are knocked up quickly and are designed to get hits.

When a 30 minute to create page about the 10 funniest cats written by an unpaid intern generates more income for a news site than an in-depth article about the Cypriot crisis written by a professional financial journalist we have a big problem.

Osem 27-03-2013 11:49
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielf (Post 35553547)
I wasn't serious. Well, not entirely anyway. I honestly wonder if the Sun even prints 20 articles a month that are worth reading. :erm:
20 a year is being generous... ;)

Chris 27-03-2013 11:50
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogerdraig (Post 35553567)
after my dealing with them i am quite happy to do the leg work myself i found more video than sky or the bbc put out on meteorite most of it less grainy than their efforts plus didnt have to listen to stupid people asking inane questions

the dumbing down imho opinion is being caused by these journalists
As I said, if all you want from your 'news' is pretty pictures, you're sorted. However if you want analysis you need to read reporters with contacts and experience. Very few bloggers and tweeters have that.

Stuart 27-03-2013 11:50
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ (Post 35553561)
Playing devil's advocate (plus acknowledging I don't know how these things work), what's wrong with the money they get from selling physical copies as well as the income from online advertisers?
The problem, according to the Murdochs at least, is that the free availability of news is reducing the sales of physical copies.

TBH, I'd be surprised if that weren't the case. In and around London at least, the time when most newspapers is sold is during the rush hour. I've been commuting for years, and while it used to be the case that most of the people on my train read newspapers, the things I see being read more than anything else are tablets and phones. Oddly, the number of people reading books doesn't seem to have changed much.

Now, I realise that that is hardly a scientific or exhaustive survey, but if that pattern is repeated (even if it's just across the south east of England), then the news paper owners are losing a lot of potential sales of physical papers.

Chris 27-03-2013 11:54
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
And, speaking of Murdoch, it begins to appear that he was ahead of the game (again) ... his enemies predicted the Times paywall experiment would flop. It didn't. The FT has since followed. Now the Telegraph and the Sun are following suit. We are very soon going to end up with all our national newspapers charging for their content and, I have to say, I can't blame them for it.

Damien 27-03-2013 11:59
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggy J (Post 35553565)
It's all been dumbed down for years because news proprietors have cut everything to bare bones in the name of profit..Even news sources have been severely reduced to cut costs.They are now losing money on hard copies so have to start charging on the internet versions to try and maintain what profits they can..However they have failed entirely to realise that the internet is used by people who aren't that keen to pay for what was free originally and will just go and find another 'free' version.
Broadsheet newspapers haven't made money for years with only a few exceptions (Financial Times). The Guardian and The Telegraph have laid off staff in recent months and it certainly wasn't done to maximise profits it was done to stem unsustainable losses. The proprietors have been subsidising these newspapers for a long time now. The Internet has been one of biggest reasons why they're losing money and they've been expected to put their content online for free. It's clearly not a sustainable way to run an organisation.

I think they're well aware people on the Internet want content for free and that's why they've been resisting paywalls for so long but it can't continue any longer. There hasn't been the solution to make free online Journalism work and they've had to go to the only recourse left to them. Charge the users. In the end I don't think they care if people go elsewhere to get their free content. Even if only 1% stick around and pay that is 1% more than they would be getting before.

---------- Post added at 11:59 ---------- Previous post was at 11:56 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35553575)
And, speaking of Murdoch, it begins to appear that he was ahead of the game (again) ... his enemies predicted the Times paywall experiment would flop. It didn't. The FT has since followed. Now the Telegraph and the Sun are following suit. We are very soon going to end up with all our national newspapers charging for their content and, I have to say, I can't blame them for it.
And the content behind The Times' paywall is good. None of this rubbish.

Russ 27-03-2013 12:00
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
But.....The Sun....

I find that hard to take seriously if they're going to use the "you want quality journalism - you have to pay for it" line.

Chris 27-03-2013 12:00
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35553576)
Broadsheet newspapers haven't made money for years with only a few exceptions (Financial Times). The Guardian and The Telegraph have laid off staff in recent months and it certainly wasn't done to maximise profits it was done to stem unsustainable losses. The proprietors have been subsidising these newspapers for a long time now. The Internet has been one of biggest reasons why they're losing money and they've been expected to put their content online for free. It's clearly not a sustainable way to run an organisation.

I think they're well aware people on the Internet want content for free and that's why they've been resisting paywalls for so long but it can't continue any longer. There hasn't been the solution to make free online Journalism work and they've had to go to the only recourse left to them. Charge the users. In the end I don't think they care if people go elsewhere to get their free content. Even if only 1% stick around and pay that is 1% more than they would be getting before.

---------- Post added at 11:59 ---------- Previous post was at 11:56 ----------



And the content behind The Times' paywall is good. None of this rubbish.

^ This.

Those that go elsewhere will be no loss. The fact is, *some* people will pay, which means an income stream that didn't previously exist. I'll be happy to stump up £2 a month to continue reading the Telegraph.

Chris 27-03-2013 12:01
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ (Post 35553579)
But.....The Sun....

I find that hard to take seriously if they're going to use the "you want quality journalism - you have to pay for it" line.
The Sun is quality, on its own terms. It knows its target audience and writes for it exceptionally well, hence its market-leading position.

danielf 27-03-2013 12:05
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35553575)
And, speaking of Murdoch, it begins to appear that he was ahead of the game (again) ... his enemies predicted the Times paywall experiment would flop. It didn't. The FT has since followed. Now the Telegraph and the Sun are following suit. We are very soon going to end up with all our national newspapers charging for their content and, I have to say, I can't blame them for it.
It's madness to think that a decent newspaper can survive on advertising revenue alone. It costs a lot of money to produce a good newspaper, and it's time people wake up to this fact.

I can't see £2 a month being enough though. £10 a month seems more realistic.

Maggy 27-03-2013 12:06
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
To be honest if I was going to read newspapers digitally on a regular basis then I'd get a Kindle subscription and read it in that format.

Damien 27-03-2013 12:16
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielf (Post 35553585)
It's madness to think that a decent newspaper can survive on advertising revenue alone. It costs a lot of money to produce a good newspaper, and it's time people wake up to this fact.

I can't see £2 a month being enough though. £10 a month seems more realistic.
They could increase it later slowly and find the sweet spot. I think 20 free articles is a bit too generous, the FT has 8, but again they can adapt that to be less and less as well.

Chris 27-03-2013 12:16
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggy J (Post 35553586)
To be honest if I was going to read newspapers digitally on a regular basis then I'd get a Kindle subscription and read it in that format.

And they would be happy for you to do that. The Telegraph however is charging £10 a month for that option, as opposed to £2 for access to the website and smartphone apps.

This is the one thing I don't understand about the price structure - they are allowing smartphone access at the £2 point but charging £10 for the tablet edition. I can see the sense of differentiating between a smartphone app and a tablet app; presumably the smartphone app carries pared-down content. But putting full website access in the £2 bracket rather than in the premium £10 bracket alongside the tablet edition, when a tablet will run the full website without any problems, seems a bit odd.

danielf 27-03-2013 12:29
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35553590)
And they would be happy for you to do that. The Telegraph however is charging £10 a month for that option, as opposed to £2 for access to the website and smartphone apps.

This is the one thing I don't understand about the price structure - they are allowing smartphone access at the £2 point but charging £10 for the tablet edition. I can see the sense of differentiating between a smartphone app and a tablet app; presumably the smartphone app carries pared-down content. But putting full website access in the £2 bracket rather than in the premium £10 bracket alongside the tablet edition, when a tablet will run the full website without any problems, seems a bit odd.
If it's anything like the Times: With the tablet option you download the entire paper to the tablet and you can then read it at your leisure (though you can obvioulsy access the website as well). You can also keep the backlog on a tablet. But I agree, the difference in price seems excessive.

TheDaddy 27-03-2013 16:36
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35553513)
News costs to produce. It's not free to make, if nobody pays then it can't survive.
Its not surviving, it's in the last throws in print form as it is which is why they're moving to charge on the net and at least unlike the print equivalent it's up to date, why people buy a paper to read yesterdays news these days is beyond me, I haven't done for years and I probably won't be subscribing to any online either if they aren't at least add free.

---------- Post added at 16:36 ---------- Previous post was at 16:26 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by danielf (Post 35553594)
If it's anything like the Times: With the tablet option you download the entire paper to the tablet and you can then read it at your leisure (though you can obvioulsy access the website as well). You can also keep the backlog on a tablet. But I agree, the difference in price seems excessive.
Speaking of the times, what a great job they've done with the iPad app combining the paper with it's Sunday sister and presumably cutting swathes of staff from the digital desk, frozen pages, pages refusing flatly to load, crashing constantly, missing pictures etc and this is what they expect us to pay for?

rogerdraig 27-03-2013 18:07
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35553573)
As I said, if all you want from your 'news' is pretty pictures, you're sorted. However if you want analysis you need to read reporters with contacts and experience. Very few bloggers and tweeters have that.
i like more than pretty pictures ( though pretty ones can be fun :P ) and you can find lots of experts on most subjects i have looked for

yes you have to check they are giving good information by getting where possible more than one to corroborate story / information but that's hardly any different to the press who i now just automatically assume are lying to me ;)

Chris 27-03-2013 18:26
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
OK ... and I'm curious, why do you assume they're lying to you? And do you mean that they are politically slanted, or that they're just totally making stuff up?

danielf 27-03-2013 18:35
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35553761)
<snip> do you mean that they are politically slanted, or that they're just totally making stuff up?
Are we still talking about the Sun?

Chris 27-03-2013 19:08
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
:D

rogerdraig 27-03-2013 21:13
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
some are obviously political slanted in either direction other have their own agenda

from personal experience they are willing to do anything and hurt anyone including children to get their story and only the story they want to print and don't like silly things like the truth alter what they want to say

( willing to pm a fuller story it can take a while to write lol )

suffice to say what ever they print now i take with a huge pinch of skepticism

toonlight 27-03-2013 21:30
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogerdraig (Post 35553842)
some are obviously political slanted in either direction other have their own agenda

from personal experience they are willing to do anything and hurt anyone including children to get their story and only the story they want to print and don't like silly things like the truth alter what they want to say

( willing to pm a fuller story it can take a while to write lol )

suffice to say what ever they print now i take with a huge pinch of skepticism
I've said the same thing for years rogerdraig, most of the news is just table gossip some singling of truth but not much, I stopped reading with news papers over 7 years ago, wasn't much in them back then worth for price they wanted. If the talent was put back in place in the news & was balanced may be I'd buy a news paper.... only then.

Peace out
Toolight

Damien 27-03-2013 21:51
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
Where do you all get your news from then?

By the way the idea that you can balance out the news by taking it from different sources is a bit of a fallacy in my view. What matters is the quality of the source. If you read two biased sources to 'get both sides of the story' then all you've done is read two biased stories, it's wrong to assume those are the only two sides or that the truth lies somewhere in-between them. One good source is worth far more than multiple poor ones.

rogerdraig 27-03-2013 22:05
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
still watch and read bbc as a good starting point though they seem to have gone down hill i am lucky to a certain extent that often i have online acquaintances from years on yahoo i often have some one near to stories that are happening

if your talking of stories like Cyprus then there are financial sites they tend to be a lot more based on facts and reuters is still mostly a good source

and of course here ;) font of all knowledge

martyh 27-03-2013 22:19
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogerdraig (Post 35553884)
still watch and read bbc as a good starting point though they seem to have gone down hill i am lucky to a certain extent that often i have online acquaintances from years on yahoo i often have some one near to stories that are happening

if your talking of stories like Cyprus then there are financial sites they tend to be a lot more based on facts and reuters is still mostly a good source

and of course here ;) font of all knowledge
indeed ,you don't get to read about 2 headed bull sharks in the Sun :D

rogerdraig 27-03-2013 22:34
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
ah i had forgotten about "The Onion" and "thedailymash.co.uk" ;)

Qtx 27-03-2013 23:39
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
Most news sites are bias in some way so you have to read multiple sites to get a more balanced view of a particular story. By going behind a paywall some of the media outlets will loose some of their influence, so I am sure they did not choose this option lightly.

RSS readers aggregate from multiple sources so you can get plenty of news, views and whatever all in one place without paying. Even without those kind of features, most will not pay when another place offers it for free. Murdoch is trying to get as many news outlets to do the same so eventually there will be less options but there will always be alternatives.


In the short term I am sure many will just use the BBC site.

AdamD 29-03-2013 16:15
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
I'd imagine the vast majority of the country already pays for news through the TV license. (Aka, BBC News)

But given the decline in sales of "news" papers (I use the term "News" very loosely when it comes to trailer trash papers, like The Sun), then it's inevitable this would happen.

Osem 18-04-2013 16:45
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
They'd have to pay me to 'read' the Sun.

Sirius 18-04-2013 17:01
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35562430)
They'd have to pay me to 'read' the Sun.
Same here i gave up reading comics as a kid.

Pauls9 18-04-2013 17:01
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
On the plus side, it doesn't take long to read all the news in the Sun.

Ramrod 18-04-2013 19:44
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
The Telegraph is unlimited (still) on my Samsung S2 running ICS.......dunno how long that will last.....:)

Jimmy-J 18-04-2013 20:22
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
Not bothered if they charge for their news or not, as long as we have a choice, that's all what matters.

Gary L 19-04-2013 10:40
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35562430)
They'd have to pay me to 'read' the Sun.
I only read it for the page 3.
I just go in the shop and look without buying it.

Russ 09-07-2013 14:59
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
Just had an email from The Sun saying from August 1st they're going behind a pay wall which of course will still be "fantastic value for money" at £2 per week. Of course there's the usual sweetener of "sign up now and get the first 2 months for £1". I seriously cannot see this taking off.

peanut 09-07-2013 15:00
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ (Post 35593597)
Just had an email from The Sun saying from August 1st they're going behind a pay wall which of course will still be "fantastic value for money" at £2 per week. Of course there's the usual sweetener of "sign up now and get the first 2 months for £1". I seriously cannot see this taking off.
£2 a year would be £2 too much for the sun.

Saaf_laandon_mo 09-07-2013 15:23
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
I have recently started the trial subscription to the Times. £4 a week gives me all the papers, and online content. Once I finish the trial I will move to their Weekend Pack which is £3 a week. For that I will get the Saturday and Sunday times, plus online content. I buy the weekend papers anyway - so in effect this is a better deal than not subscribing.

v0id 09-07-2013 15:25
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
Here's hoping the Daily Mail goes behind a paywall sometime soon :D

Sirius 09-07-2013 15:39
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by v0id (Post 35593606)
Here's hoping the Daily Mail goes behind a paywall sometime soon :D
I would not pay 1p per year for the pun or the fail never mind £2.00 per week.

denphone 09-07-2013 15:48
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirius (Post 35593611)
I would not pay 1p per year for the pun or the fail never mind £2.00 per week.
Seconded.

techguyone 10-07-2013 10:54
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
They'll all end up doing it, hard copy sales of all printed media have been declining steadily since about 1999.

I've worked in Newspaper/Magazine Wholesaling since 1988, the traditional format Newspaper/Magazine is pretty much extinct. Publishers have to make up that revenue loss in the areas that are now active.

Zee 10-07-2013 12:45
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
People will just look elsewhere.

Damien 02-08-2013 21:24
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
Anyone gone behind the wall at The Sun yet then?

Osem 02-08-2013 21:27
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
Pity they haven't put the paper version behind a great big wall too...

denphone 02-08-2013 21:28
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35604844)
Anyone gone behind the wall at The Sun yet then?
No and that ain't going to change Damien.

Chris 02-08-2013 21:33
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
Nope. I do pay for the Tele though.

Damien 02-08-2013 21:35
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35604865)
Nope. I do pay for the Tele though.
Yeah I am on The Telegraph and The Times ones but I wondered if The Sun had done any major redesign of their site since it was pretty poor before..The Telegraph always seems to forget me as well...

Chris 02-08-2013 21:40
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35604866)
Yeah I am on The Telegraph and The Times ones but I wondered if The Sun had done any major redesign of their site since it was pretty poor before..The Telegraph always seems to forget me as well...
Well, you have to look hard to see past the nag banners but yes, they do seem to have spruced it up a bit.

Sirius 02-08-2013 23:47
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35604844)
Anyone gone behind the wall at The Sun yet then?
They need to put it behind the great wall of China along with that lying git Murdoch :)

Dave42 03-08-2013 00:14
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
Murdoch's greed know no bounds

TheDaddy 03-08-2013 07:05
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
Striker isn't behind the pay wall, hilarious, the one thing I'd actually pay to read...

colin25 03-08-2013 09:24
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by techguyone (Post 35593786)
They'll all end up doing it, hard copy sales of all printed media have been declining steadily since about 1999.

I've worked in Newspaper/Magazine Wholesaling since 1988, the traditional format Newspaper/Magazine is pretty much extinct. Publishers have to make up that revenue loss in the areas that are now active.
They could do that, and some will pay.

But Sun readership ( please shout if I have got it wrong) is not exactly people who enjoy paying for something, they can get free elsewhere online.

So I see the sun failing. You can see page 3 anywhere (and no, i don't go looking, did that when younger for novelty, got boring after awhile :D)

There news content doesn't seem to be great (not read it in a few decades, perhaps it has become more broadsheet?)

Sport may be good (still not read it), but you can get that anywhere. Rumours are dime a dozen

Damien 03-08-2013 09:27
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave42 (Post 35604933)
Murdoch's greed know no bounds
I don't think expect people to pay for a product that costs to produce is greedy. Murdoch may well be greedy and I am certainly no fan but the newspaper business is not one for making large profits and he subsidies papers for the most part as it's a struggling industry.

If we don't want a world of Huffington Posts then we need to start going back to the idea that journalism isn't free.

colin25 03-08-2013 09:31
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35604988)
I don't think expect people to pay for a product that costs to produce is greedy. Murdoch may well be greedy and I am certainly no fan but the newspaper business is not one for making large profits and he subsidies papers for the most part as it's a struggling industry.

If we don't want a world of Huffington Posts then we need to start going back to the idea that journalism isn't free.
Or we presume news is free, and they need to create other ways to get revenue

Damien 03-08-2013 09:46
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by colin25 (Post 35604991)
Or we presume news is free, and they need to create other ways to get revenue
It's not free though. It's costs money to pay journalists and they incur costs is chasing down stories. Big scoops can take several months or longer of a journalist producing very little in the mean time. They've tried other ways get revenue but like most things there is little else other than charging the consumers of your product.

Osem 03-08-2013 10:07
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35604866)
Yeah I am on The Telegraph and The Times ones but I wondered if The Sun had done any major redesign of their site since it was pretty poor before..The Telegraph always seems to forget me as well...
I'd only start worrying about that when it's your mates... ;) :D

colin25 03-08-2013 10:32
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35604996)
It's not free though. It's costs money to pay journalists and they incur costs is chasing down stories. Big scoops can take several months or longer of a journalist producing very little in the mean time. They've tried other ways get revenue but like most things there is little else other than charging the consumers of your product.
That presumes there is a market.

There may be people who say no.

I haven't bought a paper in years. i read the metro on the bus (it is there and passes the time) else i get news from tv and online.

I don't sign up to the assumption that things must remain the same, that includes paying for things.

Damien 03-08-2013 10:40
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by colin25 (Post 35605009)
That presumes there is a market.

There may be people who say no.

I haven't bought a paper in years. i read the metro on the bus (it is there and passes the time) else i get news from tv and online.

I don't sign up to the assumption that things must remain the same, that includes paying for things.
Then how do we get our news if people aren't getting paid to produce it?

colin25 03-08-2013 10:46
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35605014)
Then how do we get our news if people aren't getting paid to produce it?
Hmmm..so you are saying we won't get news?

Some companies survive wholly on advertising.

Or we rely on tv, radio.

Newspapers need not survive, it isn't an absolute

---------- Post added at 10:46 ---------- Previous post was at 10:45 ----------

Oh, and losing the Sun newspaper, is not something I will worry about. :D

Russ 03-08-2013 11:09
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
The Sun's twitter feed has been filled with RTs from people saying how 'amazing' the new site and app is. The other (free) papers' twitter feeds have been full of comments about how theirs will always be free. I'll trust The Mirror's assurances on this one. Screenshotted of course in case they decided to try to make a few extra bob out of us in the future.

Damien 03-08-2013 11:14
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by colin25 (Post 35605018)
Hmmm..so you are saying we won't get news?

Some companies survive wholly on advertising.

Or we rely on tv, radio.
I am saying news will become regurgitated press releases and 2nd information from elsewhere. A world of Huffington Posts. Advertising doesn't work for this medium because the cost of producing a page is considerably higher than the income from advertising. This is why so many news sites have link-bait articles 'top 10 whatever' rather than news now.

Chris 03-08-2013 11:17
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35604866)
The Telegraph always seems to forget me as well...
Well at least it's not just me ... :erm:

I wonder if they're doing something odd with their cookies to try to stop people just deleting them to reset their free article count.

Damien 03-08-2013 11:20
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35605034)
Well at least it's not just me ... :erm:

I wonder if they're doing something odd with their cookies to try to stop people just deleting them to reset their free article count.
Could be. Although I can't think what it would be as they would ideally want cookies which never expire. It's very annoying on the iPad actually since it's a pain to type your e-mail and password each time on it.

colin25 03-08-2013 11:23
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35605030)
I am saying news will become regurgitated press releases and 2nd information from elsewhere. A world of Huffington Posts. Advertising doesn't work for this medium because the cost of producing a page is considerably higher than the income from advertising. This is why so many news sites have link-bait articles 'top 10 whatever' rather than news now.
Electronic medium seems to be the way. that might mean papers on something that can be rewritten etc

And, whilst some news is worthy (though not that i would buy), what have we got now? I do see newspapers (through my job etc) and often it is the same story slightly rewritten (if they even bother with that)

So we are already there.

i just don't see any great shame if the papers fold. but, that is me. others will disagree

rogerdraig 03-08-2013 15:39
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
Won't see it behind Dave's firewall anyway lol

Gavin78 04-08-2013 23:44
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
I went for the sun's £1 for 2 months option but will cancel after that as don't want to pay the £8.67 a month they want to charge me

Stuart 05-08-2013 12:15
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35604996)
It's not free though. It's costs money to pay journalists and they incur costs is chasing down stories. Big scoops can take several months or longer of a journalist producing very little in the mean time. They've tried other ways get revenue but like most things there is little else other than charging the consumers of your product.
Indeed.. I've read it's not unheard of for the costs of a really big story to spiral into the 10s if not 100s of thousands of pounds area.

Damien 05-08-2013 12:28
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuart (Post 35606082)
Indeed.. I've read it's not unheard of for the costs of a really big story to spiral into the 10s if not 100s of thousands of pounds area.
Meanwhile it takes less than a day to write about that celebrity baby name or the top 10 fish and chips shops in Brighton and they probably generate the same ad revenue. Massive problem with the ad generated model.

denphone 30-10-2015 10:48
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
Sun website to scrap paywall.

http://www.theguardian.com/media/201...-scrap-paywall

heero_yuy 30-10-2015 11:06
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
Just got a notification through:

Quote:
Hi *******
From November 30, 2015 readers will no longer need a subscription to access Sun content.
You don’t need to do anything - as a code collector you can continue to enjoy all the benefits of Sun Perks, which are still available to access using a Sun Code from the back of the newspaper.
Thank you for your continued loyalty to The Sun. We value your support and hope you continue to enjoy everything thesun.co.uk has to offer.
The Sun
The perks for those who are code collectors are quite handy.

I had noticed over the last few days that less and less is protected from casual browsing.

Damien 30-10-2015 11:10
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
The Sun was always a weird one because it depends on mass appeal so you think they would want to go for advertising and high page views.

denphone 30-10-2015 11:50
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 35805710)
Just got a notification through:



The perks for those who are code collectors are quite handy.

I had noticed over the last few days that less and less is protected from casual browsing.
Yes they opened up part of its paywall content a few weeks ago obviously in preparation for a full rollout.

---------- Post added at 11:50 ---------- Previous post was at 11:46 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35805711)
The Sun was always a weird one because it depends on mass appeal so you think they would want to go for advertising and high page views.
Yes it was quite surprising when they put their content behind the paywall as its main online rivals which are the Daily Mail , Daily Mirror , The Guardian are growing their free online websites exponentially and have been for several years.

heero_yuy 30-10-2015 11:56
Re: The Sun and The Telegraph go behind Paywalls
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35805717)
Yes they opened up part of its paywall content a few weeks ago obviously in preparation for a full rollout.
On a technical front they've redesigned the main page so it loads in parts as you scroll down so it comes in really fast especially compaired to others where you wait for ages as the whole page and all the various links load.


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