Cable Forum

Cable Forum (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/index.php)
-   Current Affairs (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/forumdisplay.php?f=20)
-   -   Police 'right to strike' vote fails. (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33692303)

Osem 04-03-2013 12:22
Police 'right to strike' vote fails.
 
Quote:
The Police Federation of England and Wales has failed to achieve enough votes to lobby the government for industrial rights.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21652384

There's not much detail in the article yet but IIRC I just heard on BBC radio that only 43% of those eligible to vote bothered to do so. I find that quite surprising.

Derek 04-03-2013 12:39
Re: Police 'right to strike' vote fails.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35544163)
There's not much detail in the article yet but IIRC I just heard on BBC radio that only 43% of those eligible to vote bothered to do so. I find that quite surprising.
As its an England & Wales only vote I'm not up to speed on it but I don't think it was as easy as every Fed member getting a voting card sent out. They had to register first and go through various hoops.

That said with such a vicious attack on the Police by the current government I'm surprised by the low turnout. I see the same MPs that ignored the pitiful PCC election turnout are now claiming the 'vast majority' of Police don't want the right to strike. :rolleyes:

Arthurgray50@blu 04-03-2013 12:40
Re: Police 'right to strike' vote fails.
 
I think the reason why the vote was so low is that Police Officers cannot strike, And l cannot see it changing.

My son is going for police officer this year, and has already been told what his wages and conditions will be and they are quite staggering. From a fathers point of view, l am proud of what he will be doing, BUT, the pay and conditions are an insult to the work and crap they have to put up with.

In my association with the Met, l have never known morale to be so low in the service, everyone is saying that they have a cushy number, well let me assure you the stress that officers are put under from the moment they booked on for duty - its heart attack stuff, and its go go go right from the start.

Three of my mates who went for PC, quit after the first month due to the pressure, and now my son has to pay for the training course out of his own pocket, with no guarantees of getting the elite position.

I personally feel that Police officers need a voice, and the strike would be the best option, but they are not allowed by law to strike, this could be why the vote was low.

If you went on the streets and asked if anyone would like to be a Police Officer for 19 grand a year - put your life on the line for the public, l think the answer will be NO WAY.

If the public was under the illusion its blues/twos all the time - they are totally mistaken.

Sirius 04-03-2013 13:44
Re: Police 'right to strike' vote fails.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu (Post 35544168)
now my son has to pay for the training course out of his own pocket, with no guarantees of getting the elite position.
They pay for there training as a police office :shocked:

mertle 04-03-2013 14:26
Re: Police 'right to strike' vote fails.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirius (Post 35544184)
They pay for there training as a police office :shocked:
me too supose government looking at in different perspective a lawyer has pay there education.

Arthur can you say how much it is. Do they get remuneration after they leave or put few years in service.

Not saying right way to go about things what happens if puts people off joining. We could have crisis.

If police now what next step armed forces get told the same.:shocked:

Think the reason for it being low is possible there is many still believe in the principles of police should not strike. I can say its right or wrong in that principle belief.

Arthurgray50@blu 04-03-2013 14:39
Re: Police 'right to strike' vote fails.
 
Siruis, the procedure is that 'trainee police officers, have to pay for a course which takes ten weeks, this is paid out of the own pocket.

You then sit an exam, if you pass the exam, which is strict, you then have to pass a medical, and then you go to Hendon Police College.

Before, l hate to say this, the government place strict guidelines on the Police Service, years ago you applied and went straight to Hendon where you past exams, that has now all changed.

My son has been through the course once before and failed. He is going through it again and the whole recruiting has changed again.

To do the training is very hard work and its course work, course work all the time, Even though he pays for the training, which saves time at Hendon, he still has to pass the exam to get to Hendon.

I have been told that out of 600 applicants in the last entrance to Hendon College, only 200 got through to the college, As l have said some of my mates have tried and failed to get there and list all that money, only ONE has succeeded, and even he is now struggling, And in the first 18 months its a struggle and there is no guarantee that you will finally get though to become a police officer.

There is quite a lot of people who think that becoming a police officer is a peace of cake - well it isn't. I was proud to wear the uniform of a MSC officer (specials), l saw things that the public don't see - the paperwork, the stress. I did 16 years of it and enjoyed every minute, but what annoys me is when you get people who run the police service down - they don't see half of what goes on.

mertle 04-03-2013 14:53
Re: Police 'right to strike' vote fails.
 
thank you arthur so its quite shocking system will if continued will surely get alot disalusioned of paying not making it.

We could find big crisis down the road.

Arthurgray50@blu 04-03-2013 15:04
Re: Police 'right to strike' vote fails.
 
And under gov guidelines the pay has gone down as well, this is why l get so angry when people say that its a piece of cake.

There are young adults out there who want to be police officers that do not make the grade, l have been told that they are looking for people that have degree's. Don't know how that is going to effect catching criminals.

Its the hardest job in the world.

Sirius 04-03-2013 16:05
Re: Police 'right to strike' vote fails.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu (Post 35544209)
Siruis, the procedure is that 'trainee police officers, have to pay for a course which takes ten weeks, this is paid out of the own pocket.

You then sit an exam, if you pass the exam, which is strict, you then have to pass a medical, and then you go to Hendon Police College.

Before, l hate to say this, the government place strict guidelines on the Police Service, years ago you applied and went straight to Hendon where you past exams, that has now all changed.

My son has been through the course once before and failed. He is going through it again and the whole recruiting has changed again.

To do the training is very hard work and its course work, course work all the time, Even though he pays for the training, which saves time at Hendon, he still has to pass the exam to get to Hendon.

I have been told that out of 600 applicants in the last entrance to Hendon College, only 200 got through to the college, As l have said some of my mates have tried and failed to get there and list all that money, only ONE has succeeded, and even he is now struggling, And in the first 18 months its a struggle and there is no guarantee that you will finally get though to become a police officer.

There is quite a lot of people who think that becoming a police officer is a peace of cake - well it isn't. I was proud to wear the uniform of a MSC officer (specials), l saw things that the public don't see - the paperwork, the stress. I did 16 years of it and enjoyed every minute, but what annoys me is when you get people who run the police service down - they don't see half of what goes on.
That is shocking and is out of order that people applying to do a job like that have to pay up front to do the course, Give your lad my regards and i hope he passes this time. :tu:

nomadking 04-03-2013 17:33
Re: Police 'right to strike' vote fails.
 
I am struggling to find any evidence that people are required to fund their training. The nearest thing seems to be an OPTIONAL course that is meant to help people pass the interview and assessment stages.

They start at Hendon. No mention of a pre-Hendon course, never mind having to pay for it.
Quote:
The structure of IPLDP sees all officers attend a five-week module at Hendon Recruit Training School. Then, until week 18 they attend a local training unit before 5 weeks coached patrol on their designated borough. Finally, they return to Hendon for 2 weeks.The whole of the new IPLDP is non-residential making recruit training more accessible to people.
Selection process for the Met only involves 2 days of assessments, one day of which is medical and fitness.

Arthurgray50@blu 04-03-2013 17:41
Re: Police 'right to strike' vote fails.
 
I can assure you that my son is paying for a course, it saves on the training at Hendon.

There is a book that you have to buy, and its approx inch and half thick and you have to read it, and then go on the course, then you go for an exam that takes you onto Hendon.

Police recruiting has now changed, the course take approx two to three weeks of the training at Hendon, which takes approx 28/30 weeks - which is a brilliant college to go to.

To join the police service is a fantastic opportunity and worthwhile career, l enjoyed every minute of my 16 years as a special constable, I am now 61 years old, but if l had the chance again to walk the streets of London to prevent crime and help the community, then l would jumped at it.

This is why l will alwayws support the police service 100% in what they do and achieve, and if they ever (which l dont think they will) decided to go on strike - then l would support them still.

Sirius 04-03-2013 17:48
Re: Police 'right to strike' vote fails.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu (Post 35544302)
I can assure you that my son is paying for a course, it saves on the training at Hendon.

There is a book that you have to buy, and its approx inch and half thick and you have to read it, and then go on the course, then you go for an exam that takes you onto Hendon.

Police recruiting has now changed, the course take approx two to three weeks of the training at Hendon, which takes approx 28/30 weeks - which is a brilliant college to go to.

To join the police service is a fantastic opportunity and worthwhile career, l enjoyed every minute of my 16 years as a special constable, I am now 61 years old, but if l had the chance again to walk the streets of London to prevent crime and help the community, then l would jumped at it.

This is why l will alwayws support the police service 100% in what they do and achieve, and if they ever (which l dont think they will) decided to go on strike - then l would support them still.
Is that coarse that he is paying for voluntary ??

nomadking 04-03-2013 17:55
Re: Police 'right to strike' vote fails.
 
If such a course is used to sidestep staying at Hendon, it is still an optional route. I checked the Met's website and there is no mention of pre-Hendon courses at all.

Quote:
Assessment exercises include:
  • A Competency-Based Structured Interview with 4 questions lasting 20 minutes in total
  • A Numerical Ability Test lasting 23 minutes
  • A Verbal Ability Test lasting 30 minutes
  • Two written exercises lasting 20 minutes each
  • Four interactive exercises lasting 10 minutes each
Hardly sounds like 10 weeks worth.:rolleyes:

City of London Police are not taking new recruits.
Quote:
Please note, we are NOT accepting the transfer of CBQ or Assessment Centre results. This is unlikely to change for the foreseeable future. Please continue to check here for updates.
Is Google that difficult to use?

Osem 04-03-2013 18:11
Re: Police 'right to strike' vote fails.
 
It's usually hard to know what Arthur's on about but I reckon he's referring to pre-entry college courses such as these.

http://www.emagister.co.uk/colleges/...dProvincia=415

These have to be paid for in the same way as any others do and the costs involved have nothing directly to do with the Police.

With some age, income and other exceptions, the days of free further and higher education are gone so if my son wants to do a course to help him progress into his choice of career I don't see why he shouldn't have to pay for it just like Arthur's.

Sirius 04-03-2013 18:19
Re: Police 'right to strike' vote fails.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35544305)


Is Google that difficult to use?
It is when you are replying using a phone whilst on a coffee break at work. :rolleyes:

---------- Post added at 17:19 ---------- Previous post was at 17:16 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35544305)
If such a course is used to sidestep staying at Hendon, it is still an optional route. I checked the Met's website and there is no mention of pre-Hendon courses at all.

Hardly sounds like 10 weeks worth.:rolleyes:

City of London Police are not taking new recruits.


Is Google that difficult to use?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35544314)
It's usually hard to know what Arthur's on about but I reckon he's referring to pre-entry college courses such as these.

http://www.emagister.co.uk/colleges/...dProvincia=415

These have to be paid for in the same way as any others do and the costs involved have nothing directly to do with the Police.
You see i have never seen anything in the press about recruits having to pay for there training as a policemen and i certainley think there would be far more publicity about it.

If its voluntary then i don't see why Arthur is complaining.

Chris 04-03-2013 18:26
Re: Police 'right to strike' vote fails.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirius (Post 35544315)
If its voluntary then i don't see why Arthur is complaining.
Do you really not?

Since when has Art allowed facts to get in the way of a good rant?

Osem 04-03-2013 18:29
Re: Police 'right to strike' vote fails.
 
@ Sirius - They don't have to pay for Police training but if they want to do some sort of vocational or other course to assist them on their way then fees are likely to be payable depending on their individual circumstances.



---------- Post added at 17:29 ---------- Previous post was at 17:26 ----------

Anyway, it's great that our police won't be going on strike anytime soon isn't it... :D

Arthurgray50@blu 04-03-2013 18:30
Re: Police 'right to strike' vote fails.
 
Sirus, l am NOT complaining, What l am saying is that the course is part of the new package to become a police officer and it save costs.

What the belief is that the course you have to pay for, if you pass the exam which is at the end, you then go onto training college, it was brought in by the government to save costs at Hendon, and also time to get bobbies on the beat quicker.

Sirius 04-03-2013 18:32
Re: Police 'right to strike' vote fails.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35544319)
Do you really not?

Since when has Art allowed facts to get in the way of a good rant?
Please accept my apology, the pain killers have not fully warn off yet :D

---------- Post added at 17:32 ---------- Previous post was at 17:31 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu (Post 35544322)
Sirus, l am NOT complaining, What l am saying is that the course is part of the new package to become a police officer and it save costs.

What the belief is that the course you have to pay for, if you pass the exam which is at the end, you then go onto training college, it was brought in by the government to save costs at Hendon, and also time to get bobbies on the beat quicker.
Simply question Arthur is the course VOLUNTERY

YES - NO please tick as required

Arthurgray50@blu 04-03-2013 18:41
Re: Police 'right to strike' vote fails.
 
The course is mandatory - if you don't do then you cannot go to Hendon

Osem 04-03-2013 18:49
Re: Police 'right to strike' vote fails.
 
Is Arthur banging on about this I wonder?

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/forci...t-6484492.html

Quote:
The Met plans to shift recruitment away from Hendon policing school and take new entrants directly from special constables who train on the job. At present, new recruits undergo 25 weeks of instruction. But volunteer specials, who spend a minimum of 300 hours a year on patrol, currently get 23 days' basic training.

Under the new scheme they would have to take a course in policing and the law as well as in patrol work.
No mention of fees.

nomadking 04-03-2013 18:55
Re: Police 'right to strike' vote fails.
 
The Met aren't taking on new recruits at the moment anyway.

Link

Quote:
The MPS are currently not accepting new applications for police officers. Please check this page for regular updates.
Quote:
14. If my application has been unsuccessful, when can I re-apply?

You may re-apply after 6-months from the time you were notified of the outcome of your application. However, you should consider the reason for rejection to ensure a further application will not be rejected on the same grounds.
Quote:
2. Are you recruiting for new constables?

The MPS has changed the way that it recruits police constables. The majority of police officer recruits will now come from serving MPS special constables and PCSOs. Currently the only route for external applicants to become a police officer is by joining the MPS as a Special Constable. MPS special constables are able to apply for the role of police officer when internal vacancies arise if they have attained Independent Patrol Status (IPS) and have a current satisfactory appraisal. Independent Patrol Status is the term given when a special constable has reached a satisfactory standard of competence to enable them to patrol independently.
Special constables will be required to complete an internal application form (when internal vacancies arise) and undertake the Police National Recruitment Standard (NRS) assessment process, which is often called Day 1 (assessment centre) and Day 2 (medical and fitness). All special constable candidates, who achieve the MPS standard at Day 1 NRS, will undertake training which recognises their previous learning and operational experience before being appointed as a police constable. In future when external recruitment reopens, it is likely to be for a very limited number of vacancies.
Included in the new process for the recruitment is the proposal of a "third pathway" for external applicants. That would include applicants precluded from being special constables by virtue of their profession or personal circumstances (including graduates). At this stage this external route is not currently developed and will not be activated for 2011-12 recruitment. Plans in respect of 2012-13 MPS police recruitment are also currently not developed. Any new information or development will be posted to our careers website.
Is this "third pathway" that is being referred to? The Special Constable or PCSO route should still be an option.

Sirius 04-03-2013 18:58
Re: Police 'right to strike' vote fails.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35544333)
Is Arthur banging on about this I wonder?

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/forci...t-6484492.html



No mention of fees.
Well i would have asked Arthur to give us a link but that's like asking Argentina to give up on the Falklands and start calling it the Falklands :D

---------- Post added at 17:58 ---------- Previous post was at 17:56 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35544338)
The Met aren't taking on new recruits at the moment anyway.

Link

Is this "third pathway" that is being referred to? The Special Constable or PCSO route should still be an option.
Thanks for the info :tu:

nomadking 04-03-2013 18:59
Re: Police 'right to strike' vote fails.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35544333)
Is Arthur banging on about this I wonder?

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/forci...t-6484492.html



No mention of fees.
That article is from June 2010.

Arthurgray50@blu 04-03-2013 19:00
Re: Police 'right to strike' vote fails.
 
nomadking, you are totally wrong.
Specials and PCSO's are being recruited, BUT not at the moment, my son starts his course in April, yes he is a PCSO and starts his course then.

I will find out what this course is called - but l can assure you, you have to pay for it. Specials can apply, but they will still have to do the course.

I will speak with my son and ask him what the course is called - talk about non believers.

Sirius 04-03-2013 19:04
Re: Police 'right to strike' vote fails.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu (Post 35544343)
nomadking, you are totally wrong.
Specials and PCSO's are being recruited, BUT not at the moment, my son starts his course in April, yes he is a PCSO and starts his course then.

I will find out what this course is called - but l can assure you, you have to pay for it. Specials can apply, but they will still have to do the course.

I will speak with my son and ask him what the course is called - talk about non believers.
Without links you could say anything you wanted, links to the info will prove or disprove you post simples :D

Arthurgray50@blu 04-03-2013 19:09
Re: Police 'right to strike' vote fails.
 
Siruis, spoke with my son, there are several courses, and the course he is going on where you get a certificate in policing is with SANCUS SOLUTIONS, and he is paying £795.00 for.

You go Saturdays and Sunday, and when you pass it gets you to Hendon.

nomadking 04-03-2013 19:19
Re: Police 'right to strike' vote fails.
 
Still not 10 weeks. It is 10 half-days over 5 weekends.
  • Quote:
    Westminster Kingsway College (Course1) (Almost Full)
  • Commencing 15th April
  • Classroom Delivery dates -
    • Sat/Sun 27th and 28th April 2013
    • Sat/Sun 11th and 12th May 2013
    • Sat/Sun 1st and 2nd June 2013
    • Sat/Sun 15th and 16th June 2013
    • Sat/Sun 22nd and 23rd June 2013
    		•
    Wouldn't a PCSO have had to do something like this already?

danielf 04-03-2013 19:20
Re: Police 'right to strike' vote fails.
 
http://www.sancussolutions.co.uk/cer...e-of-policing/

Quote:
Certificate In Knowledge Of Policing

If you are thinking of the police as a career there is a new qualification available – the Certificate In Knowledge Of Policing. Obtaining this certificate is obligatory for candidates seeking to join the Metropolitan Police and advisable for all other forces in England, Wales and Northern Ireland.

There will be a limited number of organisations approved by the newly formed College of Policing who can deliver the training needed for you to successfully obtain this certificate. It is a big investment from you both in time and money so it is important that you pick the provider that is right for you. To select your Sancus course and book a place follow this link
So, Arthur was right. It's obligatory, and you pay for it yourself.

Derek 04-03-2013 19:27
Re: Police 'right to strike' vote fails.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu (Post 35544348)
Siruis, spoke with my son, there are several courses, and the course he is going on where you get a certificate in policing is with SANCUS SOLUTIONS, and he is paying £795.00 for.

You go Saturdays and Sunday, and when you pass it gets you to Hendon.
I don't think these courses are in any way compulsory but most forces seem to be going down the route of wanting applicants to have experience before joining whether it is as a special, PCSO or having a relevant qualification.

---------- Post added at 18:27 ---------- Previous post was at 18:23 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by danielf (Post 35544364)
[url]So, Arthur was right. It's obligatory, and you pay for it yourself.
From the Met website.

Quote:
Qualifications
There are no formal educational requirements to become a police officer. However, you will need to have a reasonable standard of English and numeracy if you are to succeed during the selection process.
I think the company might be exaggerating its course a touch.

danielf 04-03-2013 19:32
Re: Police 'right to strike' vote fails.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek (Post 35544367)

I think the company might be exaggerating its course a touch.
Ah. The marvels of the private sector :o: :D

Sirius 04-03-2013 19:51
Re: Police 'right to strike' vote fails.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek (Post 35544367)
I don't think these courses are in any way compulsory but most forces seem to be going down the route of wanting applicants to have experience before joining whether it is as a special, PCSO or having a relevant qualification.

---------- Post added at 18:27 ---------- Previous post was at 18:23 ----------



From the Met website.



I think the company might be exaggerating its course a touch.
Nothing new there then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by danielf (Post 35544374)
Ah. The marvels of the private sector :o: :D
Anything for a quick buck :)

Arthurgray50@blu 04-03-2013 20:25
Re: Police 'right to strike' vote fails.
 
PCSO's and Specials have got to go through the same procedure.

About 8 years ago, when l wanted to be a full time PC from the Specials, l had to start from the very begining - ie application form etc. I got as far as and Assesment Centre in London, but l failed by 5 marks, and they would not let me sit again.

I tried FIVE times as a special constable, it much harder now to be a PC cost money.

Osem 04-03-2013 20:52
Re: Police 'right to strike' vote fails.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35544342)
That article is from June 2010.
Yes I know it is - it's referring to future changes which were due to be made to the police training process sometime in 2011/2012 and I was wondering if those changes are what the OP was referring to in his uniquely nebulous manner... :D

Arthurgray50@blu 05-03-2013 00:02
Re: Police 'right to strike' vote fails.
 
Last year the courses were called something else, this time they have changed the 'goal posts' and called it something else, and my son has told me that there are three course's and he is on the cheapest one with the end result - Hendon and a brilliant police career


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 18:01.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2026, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
All Posts and Content are © Cable Forum