Gay couples cannot raise children, says Welsh secretary.
 

Tory MP David Jones says same-sex couples cannot provide 'warm and safe environment for the upbringing of children.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...elsh-secretary

Really what century is he still in.

Re: Gay couples cannot raise children, says Welsh secretary.
 

He looks like just the type that knows how to provide a warm and safe environment. Not...


Arse.

Re: Gay couples cannot raise children, says Welsh secretary.
 

I wonder if there is a 'foot in mouth' class all Tory MPs go through when they are elected?

Re: Gay couples cannot raise children, says Welsh secretary.
 

If so, he graduated Summa Com Laude....

Re: Gay couples cannot raise children, says Welsh secretary.
 

If there is he would have been given top grades.

Re: Gay couples cannot raise children, says Welsh secretary.
 

What a silly sausage

Re: Gay couples cannot raise children, says Welsh secretary.
 

al-queer-eda

Re: Gay couples cannot raise children, says Welsh secretary.
 

OK, I'm prepared to be flamed, I haven't read the article, however.

I don't agree with same sex couples having kids.

That's my opinion and belief.

I think a child, ideally, should have a mother and a father. They need both.

You can give me all the equality claptrap, but as a "Darwinist" so to speak. same sex couples are a product of the last couple of decades. They exist either by science or dodgey mates or in rare cases, adoption.

In simple terms, two people of the same sex cannot procreate naturally, I am very welcome to hear otherwise.

Re: Gay couples cannot raise children, says Welsh secretary.
 

I think that it is important that a child have a loving, caring environment - the sexuality of the parents is, imho, irrelevant.

I know of two people who can't procreate naturally, and they have adopted children - is that ok just because they are heterosexual?

We hear of plenty of nuclear or one-parent families where children are mistreated, so that model isn't perfect.

Re: Gay couples cannot raise children, says Welsh secretary.
 

I had the same strong view as Pierre and still do to a degree. The facts is parents should be male and female, the cycle of life works that way because its meant to be that way. Now though in recent years the whole gay, alien to society has diluted. Most peoples worry is children being bullied or was? there are programs now on tele that must have an influence on peoples attitude, acceptance of children/teens/persons with gay parents? I heard the word 'al-queer-eda' watching Pramface on BBC3, funny stuff. It made me think twice about my own judgement on gays. Added to that the nutcases I have to put up with.

Re: Gay couples cannot raise children, says Welsh secretary.
 

l have a gay brother and as such know him very well and in my own own humble opinion he would be very capable along with his partner of raising children and as Hugh say look at the family's out there who cannot even look after their own children properly and as such what gives them or other parts of society the right to sit in judgement about other people in our society.

Re: Gay couples cannot raise children, says Welsh secretary.
 

The fact is no one has any automatic right to have children whatever sexuality or gender of the parents.

Having children is a privilege not a right.

Re: Gay couples cannot raise children, says Welsh secretary.
 

I think 2 loving people, whatever their sex, have every chance of bringing up children in a stable environment conducive to their long term wellbeing. It seems to me there is bound to be some impact on the children of a gay marriage, however, whether it just be that they are not exposed to the 'parental' love of both a man and a woman. Of course in today's world there are plenty of single parent, single sex and defective households devoid of any love whatsoever so the same, or quite possibly worse, could be said for the children of those relationships.

Re: Gay couples cannot raise children, says Welsh secretary.
 

I think few people would argue that, all other things being equal, it is best for a child to have a father and mother. I think there's a decent debate to be had there, and I think there's a definite case for favouring a man/woman couple when possible. That's a completely different position from the one taken by David Jones, who argues that a same-sex clearly couple cannot provide a 'warm and safe environment'. At the end of the day, it's better to be raised by a loving couple than to spend your days in an care.

I'll tell you what. I'd rather be raised by two loving homosexuals, than by a moron like David Jones.

Re: Gay couples cannot raise children, says Welsh secretary.
 

To a certain degree i think you are right ,it is how it is meant to be ,but in the great scheme of things in modern times it doesn't really make any difference .There are plenty of man/women couples who Darwin would put back in the trees ,the same with gay couples .So as long as gay couples don't try to bring kids up to be gay by undue influence i don't really care ,and as long as the couples who do have the kids don't run round thinking they are somehow special and more moral than any other family that's fine .

Re: Gay couples cannot raise children, says Welsh secretary.
 

Regardless of what is ideal there are many examples of children growing up with only one parent and not having the influence of either the mother or the father. Additionally there are children who don't have either and are up for adoption.

In this case surely it's better to have two parents than none at all? Or to exist than not to exist at all (in the case of science).

Re: Gay couples cannot raise children, says Welsh secretary.
 

You do know it doesn't work like that, don't you?

Re: Gay couples cannot raise children, says Welsh secretary.
 

Mmmmm - I wonder how gays with straight parents were influenced?

Re: Gay couples cannot raise children, says Welsh secretary.
 

being encouraged to be something you're not is wrong no matter what side of the fence a person sits on ,hopefully gay parents appreciate that more

---------- Post added 17-02-2013 at 00:01 ---------- Previous post was 16-02-2013 at 23:56 ----------

Heterosexual couples do it all the time .There are plenty of examples where hetro parents have actively encouraged children not to be gay despite the childs natural tendency.Lets hope that Gay couples have more understanding and don't try encouraging children to be gay just because they are

Re: Gay couples cannot raise children, says Welsh secretary.
 

I don't think it's unfair to suggest parents could try to influence the sexuality of the child. As martyh points out there are hetrosexual parents who wouldn't want their kid to be gay and would try to influence that.

However it may well be the case that homosexual parents are considerably less likely to do this as there isn't really a stigma about being hetrosexual amongst homosexuals. You're unlikely to get a scenario where a teenager goes to their two gay parents and goes 'dad, dad, I am straight'.

Re: Gay couples cannot raise children, says Welsh secretary.
 

I think it does help a child to have two parents around them.
I'm sure there are many gay couples that would do a great job looking after kids, even better than some male and female couples, but I do think a mum and a dad is important in a childs upbringing.

Re: Gay couples cannot raise children, says Welsh secretary.
 

In that case should we also ban all single parents from having children?? If a single mother or father can successfully bring up a child then why can't a mother or father who has the support of another (same sex or not) also bring up a child..

I think that this is very much a statement of the MP's own morals and beliefs rather than a scientific fact...

Re: Gay couples cannot raise children, says Welsh secretary.
 

A friend of mine has a 9 year old son that she brought up herself after the father walked out.
She oftern says it is nice when I take the kid out and do different things as guys have a different perspective and do different things than girls.
I think it is good to have a balance.

Re: Gay couples cannot raise children, says Welsh secretary.
 

Yep the poor kids waiting to be adopted, always the children that suffer hardest due to politicians pushing whatever agenda they think makes a good soundbite, reminds me of the catholic adoption agencies shutting.

---------- Post added at 19:53 ---------- Previous post was at 19:51 ----------

He did say ideally, not ban all others but them from parenthood, my view is in an ideal world a male.and female would be the best role models however until we can get an ideal world let's just try for the nicest, safest environments possible for children.

Re: Gay couples cannot raise children, says Welsh secretary.
 

I once watched an episode of Trading spouses on Youtube, where there was a lesbian couple who were raising two kids and a "normal" family raising two kids, who changed places for a week

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtWBeOUTmF8

If anything, it just proves that it's not the gender that matters, it's how the individuals are as people.

If they care for and love children, then I see no reason why they can't raise kids.

The only "issue" are the people who are against it, when it's really none of their damned business.

Re: Gay couples cannot raise children, says Welsh secretary.
 

Whatever..............

If you were suggesting a single female, that wanted a baby but was not in a relationship and had no intention of being in a relationship, then just got a willing sperm donor and went ahead with it.........then yes. Because it is the same point I am making.

Also, let me clarify on my earlier post, I'm not talking about adoption. There's thousands of kids out there that need good homes and same sex couples can provide that.

My point, and maybe I didn't put it across well, is were new life is brought into the world for the convenience for the couple, when and where it would not be possible naturally.


And before anyone starts of about IVF, that were two people have a willing sperm and egg of their own..

In tha case of same sex couples or single people, that is not the case.

Not my point.

Re: Gay couples cannot raise children, says Welsh secretary.
 

What about where the husband cannot produce the wigglers, or where the wife cannot ovulate appropriately, and they require medical intervention (sperm donor or egg implant) - should they not have children?

Re: Gay couples cannot raise children, says Welsh secretary.
 

Did you not read my post?................

read it again.

Where there is a willing sperm and egg on both sides......fine.

If you are referring to where one party cannot produce either egg or sperm and has to rely on a donor egg or sperm...........

Well, this is where is does get a bit grey, and my argument gets thin. Therefore for consistency , I would have to say that no, in those scenarios also you have been dealt a rough hand.

I think adoption needs to be simplified, there's thousands of kids that need good homes, that in the past would have been helped by such couples, but aren't any longer.

Re: Gay couples cannot raise children, says Welsh secretary.
 

Frankly this is an old issue.Gay people have been adopting and begetting,using artificial insemination etc for the last 20+ years.He's completely attacking an issue that's not been an issue for years. Pft! He's just playing to people's prejudices.

Re: Gay couples cannot raise children, says Welsh secretary.
 

My opinion on all this? Well ,part of me suspects he is trying to divert attention away from his government's awful handling of the economy and apparent failure to tackle the large scale tax avoidance prevalent in large corporations. However, this is not the thread for that discussion (we have other threads for that).

My opinion on whether he is right? He isn't. People can be good or bad parents regardless of whether they are gay or straight.

Re: Gay couples cannot raise children, says Welsh secretary.
 

I have some sympathy with Pierre's argument really. If a couple cannot conceive without donor sperm or egg then the biological aspect has gone, that is the desire for your children to be biologically yours. If a child isn't going to be someone else's biologically then why not adopt a child who needs parents and a home? Just seems logical. I don't think it should law by the way but still encouraged as the best path.