UTP Cable Wiring Nightmare
 

Hi All

I've decided to changed the Cat 5 ethernet cables at home to Cat 6, to make file sharing faster. THis is the kit i brought off ebay

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1109597300...84.m1423.l2649

When making the patch leads of around 1metre the gigabit side of things are working perfectly. However I made a lead which was 30 metres long and for some reason it is only 100mb ethernet as opposed to the gigabit that it should be.

this is the way the patch leads are wired up

http://www.beginnercode.com/wp-conte...ng_Diagram.gif

Can anybody shed some light on this, I've checked the cabling to make sure theres no cracks/dents etc and also to eliminate this further have also make a second cable of 30m and still the same 100m ethernet. The 1 metre patch lead was wired up in exactly the same way and gives out gigabit speeds.

Should i be looking into some sort of amplificaton....

Any help would be great.

Many Thanks

R

Re: UTP Cable Wiring Nightmare
 

CAT 5 & 6 are capable of Gb Ethernet speeds. Try another cable? Is the NIC capable of Gb? Is is set to run at 1Gb - check the NIC settings to make sure it's not fixed on 100Mb. What happens when you force it to 1Gb?

Re: UTP Cable Wiring Nightmare
 

I've tried another cable (shorter in length) and works fine even tried with different laptops, they all have 1GB connections. How would you force it be at 1GB?

Its just this crimped cable that i've made which is 25m+ which doesn't want to work. But the shorter cable i crimped at about 1.5m works fine at gigabit.....

Many Thanks

Re: UTP Cable Wiring Nightmare
 

NIC settings in Device Manager. Should be fine up to 100m.

Re: UTP Cable Wiring Nightmare
 

I would suspect that one of the eight cables isn't electrically connected in the socket / plug you have attached. It's very easy to get it not quite right. Presumably you have some form of cable tester?

Re: UTP Cable Wiring Nightmare
 

Rob, the op says he made a second cable of 30 metres and thats the same, so the chances of him getting it wrong twice are pretty slim (but still possible as they can be fiddly little suckers at best :))

My money is on inferior grade cable but it's just a hunch

Re: UTP Cable Wiring Nightmare
 

I've had some gigabit routers that do not always detect gig connections and revert to 100 speeds. Often simply plugging the same lead into a different port sets things correctly. Sometimes you have to reboot stuff. Bit of a black art really, But I'd want to be certain of the cables as much as the kit connected at either end.

Re: UTP Cable Wiring Nightmare
 

Good point,,, I never thought of that :D

Oddly enough on my recently modded WRT610N running Openwrt, the lan lights change colours, e.g. when I power up my PS3, the light on the lan port of the router is green yet when I switch my xbox on it is blue.

I don't know which colour symbolises gig throughput yet though.

Re: UTP Cable Wiring Nightmare
 

Thanks for all the input.

Rob:
I've tested the cables with a network cable tester and connections are fine, also plugged into several different ports on the GS108. (has lights on the switch to determine whether gigabit or 100m is being operated)

Pabscars:

My hunch is also on the cheap/inferior quality cabling, however can it really make that much difference, it is still solid 26AWG cable and even states on the houseing CAT 6e??

LSainsburys:
Can you be a bit mor specific please, as i'm a bit of a novice when it comes to tweaking network cards etc, running windows 7 pro 32bit.

Many Thanks

Re: UTP Cable Wiring Nightmare
 

Hi everyone
I have come across something like this before and it was down to external rf interference, I have to admit it was in an industrial environment though.

Re: UTP Cable Wiring Nightmare
 

It's not just the rating of the cable that is the determining factor. Length and course of the cable run and quality of the connections at each end can and do effect speed.

Each of the four pairs of a UTP cable had a different twist ratio to minimize crosstalk between pairs. Obviously to terminate the cable you have the untwist each pair in order to terminate, it's this "untwisting" thats probably causing you problems.

Short cable + bit of crosstalk = still an acceptable signal to noise ratio for 1GB speeds

longer cable + bit of crosstalk = higher signal to noise ratio, so equipment negotiates down to 100Mb(as it can work with the higher SNR)

*also as stated by MJPS, final route of the cable can also have the same effect, don't run UTP parallel to electrical cable, or even worse, over florescent lights and switch mode power supplies.

Re: UTP Cable Wiring Nightmare
 

Thanks for your replies.

MJPS:
I had the same idea too, so when making the second 30m cable it wasn't pinned against the walls but rather still in the roll, once connected to a pc, was still showing 100mb.

Jon T:
The entire cable of cat 6 is twisted tightly, but do you think by untwisting only by the clips is enough for it to drop from gb to 100mb?

Many Thanks

Re: UTP Cable Wiring Nightmare
 

Lol, cheapo mislabelled ebay fakes.

Cat6e does not exist.

Most cheap crappy cable off eBay will fail to meet Cat5 specifications beyond 20m. Buy proper cable.

---------- Post added at 03:12 ---------- Previous post was at 03:09 ----------

This.

---------- Post added at 03:13 ---------- Previous post was at 03:12 ----------

It's clearly poor if they have to make up non-existent categories and fake claims about the cable to sell it.

Cat 6 should be 22-24AWG. 26AWG is pathetic and way too small, less than half the size it's supposed to be. That cable is probably closer to category 4.

Re: UTP Cable Wiring Nightmare
 

Google shows up that cat6e does exist Qas? I wouldn't trust ebay though as you said. not even for a cat5 cable.

two links randomly picked...

http://www.ehow.com/about_6521486_sp...6e-cables.html

http://www.binbert.com/blog/2010/05/...-cat6e-cables/

Re: UTP Cable Wiring Nightmare
 

Thanks for your replies.

I think i'm going to have to report this to ebay, and try and get my money back. Its a bit anoying as i'm going to have to remove the pins out of the walls and redo it!!

This is what the cables looks like

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2013/02/23.jpg

I need about 100m in total, any recommendations as to where to purchase? needs to be uncrimped or on a roll of some sort.

Many Thanks

Re: UTP Cable Wiring Nightmare
 

TLC but they havent got 6e

Re: UTP Cable Wiring Nightmare
 

Google is just returning results from other similarly confused or fooled victims. Both of those links are actually people who haven't a clue what 'e' means and are talking about Cat 6a. This cable certainly isn't cat 6a nor is it 6e, which does not exist.

---------- Post added at 16:22 ---------- Previous post was at 16:19 ----------

Because 6e does not exist.

Re: UTP Cable Wiring Nightmare
 

:o: sorry

Re: UTP Cable Wiring Nightmare
 

http://www.cablemonkey.co.uk/acatalo...rk_cable.html?

It's 6 not 6a...

http://www.rm-electrical.com/publish...specification/

Re: UTP Cable Wiring Nightmare
 

It's not even 6. Like I said, probably closer to 4.

Re: UTP Cable Wiring Nightmare
 

The cable to purchase in the link is 6 not 6a. You're talking about OP's eBay purchase.

Re: UTP Cable Wiring Nightmare
 

I like Ubiquiti Toughcable but it aint cheap.

Most of the mainstream stores sell decent quality stuff, also most of the mainstream stores don't make up fake categories to make their cable sound better... Craplin does 305m of real Cat 5e or 6 for £80 or per metre at ridiculously overpriced rates. Or 20m for £9

Ebuyer does a 100m roll for £47

http://www.ebuyer.com/57616-belkin-c...m-a7l704uk100m

A 300m reel of real Cat6a costs £300 by the way, so you can tell anyone selling "6e" for £50 is telling porkies.

I've said many times before though, there is no point to getting Cat 6 cabling (except in this case, it's cheaper). Cat 5, 5e, and 6 all do exactly the same speed so unless you are using broken/faulty/bad quality cable it will not be any faster. Cat6a will go to 10Gbps but since those cost £400+ per link I doubt many people who don't already know what they're doing will be trying to use it in their homes.

Re: UTP Cable Wiring Nightmare
 

Our office network was wired in 5e and happily runs at gigabit connections. Many of our cable lengths will exceed the OP's 30m requirement. I recall buying the cable as 300m reels from Screwfix along with all the other sockets and stuff.

Re: UTP Cable Wiring Nightmare
 

Thank you all.

qas:
I was under the impression that cat 5 can't do gigabit ethernet. Im aware that cat 5e can though, am i mistaken?

I was looking at the

http://www.cablemonkey.co.uk/acatalo...rk_cable.html?

100m Roll, do you guys think this is ok for Cat 6, with that said the same site above do a 305m roll for £90? Is this the cheap ebay stuff, or would it ok?

I want to be future proof, so that for the next 10 years i would not have to upgrade the cabling hence attempting to go for Cat6. Already have Cat 5 wired up, but the internal transfer speeds are not quick enough when transferring large chuncks of data.

Many Thanks

---------- Post added at 18:24 ---------- Previous post was at 18:23 ----------

Re: UTP Cable Wiring Nightmare
 

Connectix seem to be a reputable company:

http://www.connectixcablingsystems.com/

Re: UTP Cable Wiring Nightmare
 

Cat 5 can do gigabit, Cat5e has exactly the same bandwidth rating as Cat 5, the only difference being it is slightly less interference prone.

Can't say I've heard of them myself...

I'm getting a bit tired of repeating Cat 6 is pointless. It is not future proof. It can do nothing that you can't already with Cat 5.

As I said earlier unless your Cat 5 cable is faulty there will be zero speed difference. If your cable is faulty, then your problem is sub-par cable, not cable category. Sucky cable is sucky cable nomatter how many cats you stick on the label.

Re: UTP Cable Wiring Nightmare
 

I would recommend establish the lengths you'd need and then buy some pre-made cables of that length - if you need to run the cable without a plug then your worst case is that you need to only put one plug on (I.e. the one you removed to thread the cable).

Just a thought - How did you strip the cable? Did you use the yellow tool in the picture? - When you did this did you then expose a good few inches of cable to work on adding the plugs? - Those strippers can "nick" the cables again creating crosstalk/faults so you should never work on the bare cut.

Also when you wire up the RJ45 connector you need to do this as close to the twists as you can - improving the signal.

A photo of one of your ends might help?

Re: UTP Cable Wiring Nightmare
 

I already have cat 5 prewired through the walls and it does not receive gigabit ethernet. The cat 5e however does. There is definately a difference between cat 5 (already wired) and cat5e/cat6. How would you get gigabit ethernet from a cat 5 cable? When i plug in a cat 5e/cat6 cable the computer, it automatically adjusts to gb ethernet, in comparison to the cat 5 cable which automatically goes to 100mb.

I understand what your saying that cat5 can receive gb ethernet, however it is not certified which is why a lot of people are questioning it. Cat 5 cable can reach gigabit in some scenarios, unfortunately for me, it doesn't.

Just some links below i've been reading


http://www.cableorganizer.com/articl...cat5e-cat6.htm
http://www.howtogeek.com/70494/what-...-should-i-use/
http://www.networkcablingdirectory.c...ng-id_1151.htm

Got in contact the with ebay seller and agreed to issue a refund for the dud cable! just had a look at how twisted the CAT6 cable should look like, and :shocked: how the cable i had did not look like that. Will get a picture of the supposed "cat 6" cable i have, in comparison to what it should look like.

Thanks for all the replies.

---------- Post added at 11:00 ---------- Previous post was at 10:55 ----------

I didnt use yellow tool. I stripped it with a set of pliers and then used the "string" inside the cable to rip the plastic sleeve to ensure that any "nicks" in the cable are cut off and freshly crimpted.

Will get some photos up soon

Re: UTP Cable Wiring Nightmare
 

No there isn't. There is a difference between a faulty cable and a working cable.

Plain cat 5 is certified to meet all the requirements of gigabit ethernet.

Plug it in.

Then your cat 5 cable is faulty.

If your says cat 5 and is not certified to be cat 5 then it is not cat 5 cable. Your problem is fake cable.

You've been reading misinformation. Even the first link you cited says cat 5 can do gigabit, but then claims it can't.

I'd be surprised if you can tell anything from the way the cable looks on the outside, other than it claims to be a type of cable that does not exist.

Do NOT strip cables using pliers. At worst, use a stanley knife.

Re: UTP Cable Wiring Nightmare
 

obviously the cat 5 cable was plugged in hence i ask how you'd get gigabit ethernet from a cat 5 cable!

I've tried a number of different cat 5 patch cables some brand new and some old and none of which do gigabit, but then when plugging in cat5e i get gigabit, so no it's not the pc hardware either; i dont beleive that all those cables are faulty, it's just not possible!

Theres got to be another solution to which your probably not aware of.

I meant to say the wires were stripped with a wire strippers and then the 'string' inside was used the peel/rip the plastic sleeve, and then cut away any nicks.

Re: UTP Cable Wiring Nightmare
 

Cat 5 cable is typically unshielded twisted pair, containing four twisted wire pairs. Fast Ethernet (100Base-T) and 10Base-T use only two of these pairs, leaving two pairs unused. Gigabit Ethernet (1000Base-T) uses all four pairs.

Similar to full-duplex Fast Ethernet, 1000Base-T transmits and receives simultaneously. The difference is that 1000Base-T uses four transmit/receive pairs, each pair operating at 250M bit/sec.

In some respects, running Gigabit Ethernet on Cat 5 cabling is easier than wiring for 10/100M bit/sec Ethernet. The 1000Base-T specification provides for the automatic negotiation of link characteristics, including automatic crossed cable correction. Automatic negotiation enables successful cable connections between 1000Base-T network interface cards (NIC), hubs, switches or other devices that may operate at half-duplex when the ports are initialized.

The intelligence built into many 1000Base-T interfaces can also negotiate the proper speed to use if attached to a 100M bit/sec port by mistake. The gigabit port will operate at the highest common denominator speed thereby preventing any damage to either device interface. Using 1000Base-T NICs on servers and associated switching devices in the network allows a company to continue using its Cat 5 cable infrastructure, while providing an effective high-speed connection.

Basically check your connections, and buy a cable tester.

Re: UTP Cable Wiring Nightmare
 

Connections have been checked and already have a cable tester which shows all is working fine....

Re: UTP Cable Wiring Nightmare
 

Buy a proper cable tester. I used one of these http://www.tester.co.uk/megger-sct15...le-tester-cat6

---------- Post added at 23:47 ---------- Previous post was at 23:45 ----------

The solution is your kit is faulty and you're not listening.

Re: UTP Cable Wiring Nightmare
 

I've taken on board that the cable roll is faulty. But what is your answer to the 5 different types of precrimped, shop brought, new cat 5 cable which is still showing 100mb ethernet?

It's not that im not listening, it's just your not very helpful with any sort of solution.

Thats the cable tester i have too, hence I decided to buy cabling from ebay.....

Re: UTP Cable Wiring Nightmare
 

Hi again,

Cat 5 *could* do Gig, but generally on short lengths
Cat 5e will do Gig, as the twists on the pairs are tighter, and the specification of 5e dictates this.
Cat 6 will also do Gig, but it's expensive for a home use enviroment, lower AWG (22-24), and strict rules in crimping and bending.

On reviewing the entire thread, I would say that the cabling purchased is more likely Cat 5, maybe 5e, definately NOT 6.

Jon T captured the differences well in his post.

So, for Gig Networking, the minimum standard should be Cat 5e (not 5) and if you feel flush Cat 6.

As far as using Cat 5e (or 6) and the ports negotiating to 100M, this is usually indicative of the cable run being too long, a crimping error, a 100M only NIC, or bad negotiation on the switch.

More intelligent switches offer you the ability to force Gig setting, although the interfaces will go down if the cabling itself cannot handle it.

Please also note that the cheap testers will only really test the fact that you have crimped the cables correctly, the more expensive testers will actually test the entire cable for compliance to the relevant standards (Fluke, etc).

Good Luck, but you get what you pay for ....

Nem

Re: UTP Cable Wiring Nightmare
 

Hi Nemesis

Thank you for your reply. This is what I needed to know, as opposed to some sarcastic know it alls which are addament that cat 5 definately does gig ethernet!

i've returned back that cabling now and will purchase some cat5e cable for the rest of the cable runs and hope for the best.

What AWG would you recommend if using cat5e or even cat6?

Many Thanks

Re: UTP Cable Wiring Nightmare
 

Hi rumelk,

Standard Cat 5e is 24-26 AWG, and Cat 6 is 22-24 AWG, however, for home based stuff, you really do not need CAT 6.

Nem

Re: UTP Cable Wiring Nightmare
 

Being one of the millions of home networkers I believe I am safe in saying, we could not possible buy a five grand cable tester. I wish I could though.

Re: UTP Cable Wiring Nightmare
 

x 2

Re: UTP Cable Wiring Nightmare
 

Remember networking it isn't a nightmare but a challenge to make you ponder to get your mental juices flowing for your greater goodness + always think positive & you'll get there, ask yourself after you finished what was all the worry about in first place?
-----
Cat5 only is recommended for short lengths of gig networking as per the manufactures guidance so if you planning a network it's best over engineer it all, to future proof so you don't have mess within a few years of putting it in that's why putting one in isn't cheap in the first place but cost effective in long run over matter of years. No one should think in short term costs when planning a cat network but what do need to make it future proof for fair amount of years hence the cost saving there after.
-----
Same as you I have built my own network using cat 6 pre made cables all from cat 6 length of 20m X2 shielded. So All I did was cut off one end connect it up to the socket, plug the other shielded ethernet plug into the switch; problem sorted then cut up the others up in to short lengths & placed them where they went around the place, a ethernet pre made cable has 4 ends on it so you have 4 plugs already put on for you hence little fussing around. All cat6a in the short lengths to network devices from the sockets (all premade + shielded)
To answer the grounding topic (shielded); on how to connect it up, I've got a plain empty second-hand network box + grounded power extension; all you do run a single wire (2.5mm) from the ground off the extension in the box to the ground wire on the cable on the first socket & onwards. You're best to run all your ethernet cable though conduct as is much simpler to push or pull through all around the network points> top tip for you.

It all rides on what you need your network for; do you work from home?use off site services? (cloud based); storage devices placed around the networks?

Well you don't need to spend that much on a tester all I spent was under £20 for my simple tester, all you need it to tell you is; have you connected up your network or sockets right.... that all as the rest is plain sailing.

here : £11.49 > plug in with a ethernet patch lead. Look for the lights for any faults

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2013/02/14.jpg

Re: UTP Cable Wiring Nightmare
 

Unfortunately that's just a glorified continuity tester. It just indicates if there is a good DC connection with no shorts or mis-wiring. A cable could test ok with one of those testers and still fail to achieve the expected speed.

Re: UTP Cable Wiring Nightmare
 

I think I'm with MJPS on this one, you get not many willing to folk out that amount for one small home network job would you....... it's not worth time in thinking about the answer Jon T unless it's your job while running a business... that quite fair wouldn't you agree. What I got did me just fine, all one is after in a home network is only one thing; Does it work ? In most cases that's all you need, plug you ethernet plug in & network all your devices that it's main function not a race to see who's got the best home network. Perfectionism never got anybody anywhere too fast just a name for themselves a bad one at best no offence buddy.

Re: UTP Cable Wiring Nightmare
 

You can hire a professional tester for ~£200

http://www.instruments4hire.co.uk/te...FLUKE-DSP4300/

Re: UTP Cable Wiring Nightmare
 

No, I don't agree at all. A cable's ability to conduct a DC voltage is no indication of it's ability to conduct an AC voltage at 100MHz+, where impedance, capacitance and mutual inductance on to different pairs become important.

As home networks start to reach higher speeds, the skill of the "home networker" must improve as well, that includes buying or renting any test equipment needed.

If you were building something yourself from brick, you'd hire/buy a cement mixer. If you were adjusting the timing on you car, you'd buy/rent a timing strobe kit.

Re: UTP Cable Wiring Nightmare
 

Well I know for one thing Jon T I won't be paying that much to tell me anything as all DIY home network builders in my mind are only after one thing something that works without too much fuss about it, simple + practical; just like expecting something you bought to work from the time you pull it out of it's box. Yes if you are working from home or a self employed & it's your backbone of earning a wage speed wise I can see a case for it other than that total waste of time.

As for the rest, the "cement mixer" I could borrow one second hand cheaper than I could hire one, the "timing strobe kit" you can buy one cheaper than hiring one........ that's what friends are for; right getting back to the original topic>>>

Re: UTP Cable Wiring Nightmare
 

Ok i think this is going in the wrong directions, we've started discussing cement mixers...lol

there are some valid points in your comments. I dont understand why you would buy pre-made 20m cables and then chop them up, wouldn't it be easier to buy the cable from the roll or even by the metre?

As well as this need to also make a series of smaller cables and was thinking that off the roll just seems easier.....

Re: UTP Cable Wiring Nightmare
 

GigE was designed to work on Cat5 from the outset, so if you read the standard you would know cat 5 definitely does gig ethernet, and does so up to the maximum length of 100m.

---------- Post added at 19:41 ---------- Previous post was at 19:38 ----------

No and no.

A proper cat 5 cable will do gigE up to the maximum length permitted by ethernet itself.

Proper Cat 5e will do the same, but plenty of cables sold as Cat 5e cannot do gigabit ethernet.

Often you will find both cat 5 and cat 5e cable that does not do GigE, which is usually because the cable is of crap quality. Most of the time you will also find it is either old/corroded or bought off ebay and if tested with a proper cable tester will *not* pass actual spec.

Or the cabling being wired for only 4 pins instead of 8. Plenty of "Cat5e"+ cables are sold with only half the contacts connected. Structured cabling and the like often use extra pins for power or telephone.

Exactly.

---------- Post added at 19:42 ---------- Previous post was at 19:41 ----------

No, I just take my cables into work.

---------- Post added at 19:46 ---------- Previous post was at 19:42 ----------

The implication is you buy the correct length of lead and do not chop anything up.

If you buy proper quality pre-terminated cable then you wouldn't have to worry about all these standards, certification, or testing, because the manufacturer has done all that for you.