David Cameron -hold your head in shame
 

Bedroom tax: The heart-wrenching letter that shames David Cameron www.sunday people.co.uk


I would suggest that readers this letter that is in todays edition of the papers, yes some people may say this could be exaggerating, but this is Cameron trying to get money from the vulnerable, and not produce a Mansion Tax for the rich.

It brought tears to my eyes.

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Re: David Cameron -hold your head in shame
 

Why did i know this was one of your threads before i had even opened it, Because its a anti Tory rant that's why.

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Whilst I have sympathy for the woman in the story linked to; I can see the thinking behind introducing this policy. Yet, as in all policies, innocent people get caught up in it. She has a bona fide claim to stay there, but I think this policy was actually aimed at those who take multi-bed properties, depriving families in need.

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I see absolutely nothing wrong with an Anti Tory anything to be honest. :-)

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Maybe and that's your choice, but its the only posts we get from Arthur and it gets boring to be honest. I would not mind so much if he at least linked to the stories he ranting about in the first place.

Re: David Cameron -hold your head in shame
 

Sirius, The rant was about the policies that David Cameron is bringing out which destroy people, its was also about the story in the paper.

You only have to read the comment to see the harshness about it, Its ok for him to bring out policies that harm people, but there is comment about bringing out a Mansion Tax for the rich, as they know that if they did that, all the donation would stop.

So, therefore they bring out all this crap that effects all the people that have worked all there lives and get treated poorly.

For example l had to go to hospital on Monday, for something major, but was turned away as they had closed down my emergency dept due to cut backs and had to see my GP instead as l am in severe pain.

This Government is pathetic.

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It's a good thing. it shows that he's passionate and caring for his fellow man.

It's looking very likely that Dave is gonna be out on his ear long before Xmas at this rate :)

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Don't worry, he's just making up for 13 years of silence... ;) :D

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iirc, these cutbacks are in part needed because Prudence Brown and his freedom sucking leeches spent all the money

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I am getting so fed up with people sticking up for Cameron, blaming previous government for the mess we are in today. Absolute *****( CFT l apologise for the language).

This government will NOT get back in, they are bringing out policies that are tearing this country to pieces and hitting the poor, and yet the rich can thrive like anything.

Nothing is being done towards getting Britain back to work, yet all his policies are hitting the vulnerable, such as the lady in the papers, His cutbacks are hitting the hospitals now, yesterday there was a major protest outside Ealing Hospital., as the hospital is facing the axe.

This is a major London Hospital, so if there is a major accident in London where are thwe LAS going to go - no where. there won't be any hospitals left.

Re: David Cameron -hold your head in shame
 

That's always been the case, no matter what colour the rosette.

Re: David Cameron -hold your head in shame
 

Nothing to do with cutbacks.:erm:
Link

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Arthur's still trying to propagate the delusion that nothing went wrong under Labour and it's all down to the Tories. He refuses to acknowledge the debacle at the Staffs hospital (and others) in which many hundreds people died and were treated appallingly happened when Labour were in office. At the same time he routinely demands Cameron's head and the govt. be removed from office every time some red top prints a story about someone somewhere losing out. Ask Arthur why Labour has been so quiet over the Staffs. revelations and suddenly he's got nothing to say.

In his rose tinted world PFI, illegal wars, the banking crisis and the nation's massive debts weren't down to the failures of a govt of 13 years, they were all down to the previous govt. Odd how he seems to have forgotten that absurd 'logic' 3 years into a new govt tasked with trying to undo so much which went wrong in more than a decade whilst wrestling with a massive economic crisis. The supreme irony in Arthur claiming to be fed up with people constantly defending Cameron is lost on him and says everything about the sort of person he is and the quality of his argument.

There's really no point trying to educate or even respond to Arthur, he's proved himself as unable/unwilling to accept reality and post rational and coherent comment as he is to provide links. Politicians love people like Arthur because they know they'll just carry on putting their little cross in the same box no matter what.

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Whilst you're half right and I agree with what you're saying, but putting the blame onto past govt seems to be a bit of a cop out, it's always the same. Arthur is also right in saying that this govt is picking on the most vulnerable and in true Tory style the rich are seemingly untouched. Also the new measures so far are ill thought out, but again it doesn't matter much as it's only those at the bottom of the pile is going to be affected the most, so you're saying just push the blame elsewhere and just so everything seems fair doesn't it.

And does it matter if Arthur start threads about subject matters that are current and is affecting a lot of people. At least it gives this forum a purpose to discuss these matters. It is much more boring and annoying to hear the same people moaning and responding about 'Arthur threads' without contributing to the actual subject. If you don't like his posts, then put him on ignore and move on.

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He is on ignore which I why I haven't addressed him, my point was directed at another poster if you care to look again.

I have no problem with people criticising this lot for what they've done but doing that whilst totally ignoring the reasons why much of it is being done and what went on before is absurd and undermines any valid point trying to be made, if indeed there is one and it's not just another incoherent one-sided rant.

Do you realise why Labour are being so quiet about their policies and failures? Has it occurred to you that there's going to be more of the same under them or do you think they have another magic spell to make it all go the same way as the cycle of boom and bust? The mess we're now in is going to hurt people here in just the same way as it's hurting people in most of Europe and for years to come. Anyone who's in denial about that needs to wake up and smell the coffee. It really is no good coming here and ranting on endlessly then sticking your fingers in your ears when people point out the bias, contradictions and hypocrisy in what you've posted.

Post away about the failures of this govt. but at least do so coherently and have the common sense to question the alternatives on offer, that way we can have the forum you claim to want - one in which sensible discussion of FACTS can be engaged in. Who knows, if we all do that we may wind up with better government to boot. Now wouldn't that be nice.

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ultimately the economic state of this country and the lack of industry dates back to the privatisation under Thatcher who was yes you got it Tory

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It would be nice, but there's no need to point anything at me (not sure why you have). Firstly, I don't really care much about politics but for your arguments sake, 'yes I do' to the bolds above. Secondly you've missed the point of my post.

This is a cable forum, not a the Tory party appreciation society, I can hold my hands up and say I know nothing about politics, Europe, whatever as I have too much on my plate to even bother to spend time trying to understand anything about these subjects but I do have the common sense to know what is going on. And I'm sure a lot of people here are the same. But it doesn't or shouldn't stop people from posting their 'rants' as you call them if they are valid and which are affecting people (myself included) right now.

Of course I'm very interested in what is happening right now, how things are affecting people right now, and it is good to discuss these things and also in terms for those that aren't political experts, but this place seems just against anything bad against the Tories and it's always the same, eg blame the last govt etc.

Arthurs posts are sometimes annoying, one sided etc but he is voicing what a lot of people will not say here especially on this forum because of how harsh this place can be. So for one I welcome his posts.

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Which in turn goes back to Callaghan,Wilson allowing unions to run the country.Those same unions didn't allow investment in car plants ,dockyards,steel works and pits turning them into state run money pits and those PM's where ,yes, you got it ,Labour.

Because of our history we have ended up with 2 mainstream political parties

Labour= state dominance ,state control

Conservative = self sufficiency ,private enterprise ,less state dominance

It doesn't take a genius to work out that those 2 ideologies are not compatible so we will continue on the merry go round that is politics in the UK .If labour win the next election state dependance will rise ,we will have more and more of the population dependent on the state .If conservative win we will see a continuation of self sufficiency ,less state dependency ,it's that choice you are making when you tick the box

Re: David Cameron -hold your head in shame
 

Whaayy Heyyy,

I was waiting for when Maggie would cop for it.

Yes, it's Thatchers fault, 'course it is..........................

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What has to be remembered is that a lot of peoples idea of good government is based on the Blair/Brown era ,an era i suspect you yourself are basing you political allegiances on .It was a "giveaway" era ,with more and more people entering the welfare system .When people get used to that, it is very hard to take away when the money runs out ,money i should add that was put in the bank ,so to speak,by the conservatives

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I don't think they're not compatible, I think they represent two different visions and this country and it's electorate prefer a mix of the two with elections indicating a temporary preference for one or the other. More realistically I think that both parties pitch for his middle ground anyway so elections are decided by the perceived competence of the parties rather than strong ideological grounds.

As an example I think most people want the NHS, which is more of a Labour concern and is run by the State at a large cost to the taxpayer. Labour support it, The Conservatives do as well despite their small-government ideology.

So I disagree that the parties are that different from each other, even if there are members within those parties who wish to be, and that they aim for a dodgy compromise between a large state and private enterprise.

Re: David Cameron -hold your head in shame
 

Whichever way you look at it.

The Poll tax was Maggies downfall (Conservative)
The Bedroom tax will be Dave's downfall (Conservative)

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That is a valid point ,i seem remember Blair getting a lot of flack because he wasn't enough of a socialist .

Politics is evolving in this country and the middle ground is becoming more of the norm but it will take generations still to reach that middle ground successfully .I think we still have a massive labour/conservative divide in this country

---------- Post added at 09:53 ---------- Previous post was at 09:48 ----------

If that proves to be the case we will see exactly where the populace stands on state welfare spending ,more welfare= less investment in other areas less welfare =more investment in other areas ,we can't have both

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You probably could if it the new reforms are better thought out more.

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I think we're at the middle ground now. The last few elections suggest that.

I agree that there is still a Labour/Conservative divide but I think that exists in a large minority of partisans who aren't that well represented by their respective parties - hence the existence of UKIP. These voters are taken for granted whilst the leadership chases the swinging voters who tend to be moderates almost by definition. That is until you find your core vote leaving for the smaller party, or staying at home, and suddenly you need to call an EU Referendum. :D

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Every single government come up with short term answers. Thatcher helped the present when she was in power but that's left the future stuck like this. Lack of industry means lack of jobs Banking and Insurance is not enough for this country all we are now is a warehouse. Immigration and freedom to travel means even less jobs for native Britain's

Those who said the country was a mess under labour and the unions well at least the working classes and the weak and poor were not being targeted by the rich and wealthy.Also at least there was a difference between the parties back then now they just blur into one.

This country needs political change we need to stand up and stop being the doormat of Europe and the USA's puppy dog

Oh and it does not get past me how in all these threads the comfy middle classes can sit in judgement of these policies safe in the knowledge that its not gonna make a gnats penis difference to any of ya

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It depends. If you aren't affected by the policies, then you would have a greater voice, but when you are affected then obviously it becomes personal. Do I care (or should I) about everyone else when myself is up poo creak without a paddle...

It doesn't mean I have to agree nor disagree with policies that do affect me either. I personally think benefits really need to be reformed, and as a claiment I think I can speak a bit more about it than those who think their taxes are being spent on 'scroungers'.

I can say that myself included is being paid too much in benefits, but on the other hand I don't know if I'm going to be paid anything at all in a year or so time. They are not listening to the people, nor seeing how it is affecting people now, they are not interested in the little people, just the self sufficient rich.

I have to think for myself because I can't afford to think about other people but I don't want to get tarred with the same brush.

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A compromise would be to only apply the HB reduction to 2 spare bedrooms but would then be unfair to those in the private rental market,also it would apply mostly to pensioners .One reason why pensioners are not affected by this in the new rules is because they free up large houses quicker in comparison ,they are more willing to move to smaller more suitable accommodation so are not that much of a problem imo

Re: David Cameron -hold your head in shame
 

Or you could say the elderly are the key Tory voters, and you don't want to pee them off now do we.

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It's gone beyond a welfare spending problem.
he's hacked at it that much that you can now see that it's all about punishing the poor, the old, and the disabled.

if a government is prepared to do that to its own people then they won't be surprised when the same people fight back.

they keep saying point blankly that it does not and will not affect pensioners. but it's clearly there about pensioners that in October a couple both have to be over a certain age otherwise the bedroom tax will apply.

they've said that in October they estimate that the figures who are affected will be I think 90,000 more than the 660,000 in April.
that's the pensioners they've added. nobody else.

yep. Dave is going down.

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What comfy middle class is that then ? I am most certainly not comfy middle class ,i work for about £8 p/h my wife works 10p above minimum wage ,we live in a council house .I watched my wages in one year drop by about £300 p/w when i was on the building sites.During that year i was forced to re-evaluate my lifestyle so i could get another job and not be left with a load of debt that had to be paid off .I now drive lorries ,i work very unsociable hours for not a lot of money but i am financially sound with no debt,i am most certainly not comfy middle class and i daresay others that post as i do are not either.Some may be but isn't that simply down to the way they have worked hard ,planned for the future as i have done ? instead of waiting for it all to go tits up and let the state pick up the tab

---------- Post added at 10:19 ---------- Previous post was at 10:16 ----------

How on earth do you come up with that conclusion .I would say that the voting preference amongst the elderly (lets say retired elderly) is about equally split ,getting them to change their allegiance is the hard thing

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Forecasts say we will be in 1.500 000 000 000 in debt by 2016 where pray tell is the money coming from to invest then?

He is chipping away at a 1000 foot oak tree with a plastic spork all he is doing is scratching at the edges but its the poor who are there suffering for it. This country needs out of the EU and a closure to the tax loopholes until the or a government are strong enough to do this and so no to the puppet masters in big business this country will not recover

---------- Post added at 10:22 ---------- Previous post was at 10:20 ----------

I seriously do not understand your stance on political threads then

There are still only 1 job for every 5 unemployed. The unemployed can not go into full time education to try and improve things as then they will lose benefit. There is no magic wand that will suddenly make these peoples lives better but there is Cameron's axe which makes it worse. Fair play to you though

Re: David Cameron -hold your head in shame
 

Only to people like you ,who think that the state should provide everything

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This is the exact same line that Dave and his mates are trying to feed to everyone else.
it explains it all.
it's all about relying on the state for free money and nothing else.
there's no real hardship and poverty in the country. it's all self made.

so punishing them is the answer.

---------- Post added at 10:23 ---------- Previous post was at 10:22 ----------

And there it is again.

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Is that an 'I'm okay Jack, if I can do it then so should everyone else, the sick included' statement, as it would explain your stance.

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how's about we have a cull? a national lottery say where we wipe out 5% of the population? Or maybe we really do need a war to sort it all out?or the bird flu to do its stuff ? population is growing at a ridicules rate there will be more and more unproductive OAPs out there reliant on the state for care. Perhaps we should have an age limit? a maximum life span like in Logan's run? Perhaps this should be global?

There are at least 2 million people that there is no job for perhaps we should just abolish JSA and let them stave? that will sort it all out eh

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In a lot of cases it is .Labour made it possible for large swathes of the country to live on benefits with little encouragement to get off them

At least we are clear where you stand now .Benefits as a way of life is acceptible.

---------- Post added at 10:30 ---------- Previous post was at 10:29 ----------

So working hard ,planning for the future is a bad thing then is it ?

Re: David Cameron -hold your head in shame
 

Not at all, but the sod the rest of you attitude doesn't help you much though.

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Oh, you're harsh Marty.
all them little boys and girls going hungry and suffering.

and the attitude of tough.

go on. do that thing where you say "Oh I don't mean all of them"

but you have to mean all of them. you say so in your posts.

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What you don't understand is that it is not a "sod the rest attitude" it is a "sod the ones who won't help themselves attitude" big difference and one you and others would do well to note .I am not well off ,i am not secure financially for the rest of life ,the cuts and the recession have affected me massively ,in the space of 2 yrs i have gone from being reasonably stable financially to totally changing my way of life so i can cope financially with vastly reduced income and possible unemployment.

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Lol, too late... :D

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There it is.

you don't mean all of them.

but what I can never work out is how you know who is who.

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One thing that is clear is whilst people such as yourselves are so entrenched in the state support model then the country is screwed .

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but these policies effect both sides of that dude this is the point everyone on the same side as me have continually tried to get across to you.

Its great it effecting those who won't help themselves but and this point you just have to concede the evidence is incontrovertible those who simply can not help themselves are being hit as well an just as hard.

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Oh, I'm sure we'll manage.

just have to reduce the hundreds of thousands of pounds a year wages to a lot of individuals.
stop the one person lunches that cost the equivalent of a families entire weekly income.
stop the thousands of pounds bill companies get paid to turn up for a meeting.
stop the bedroom tax because it's going to cost a hell of a lot more than it's going to save.

feel free to add to the budget cut list.

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The only way to get what you want is to have a means tested system personalized to each individual,which would be unfeasibly expensive and lead to more perceived discrimination amongst claimants .The size of the system dictates that it must ,for the large part ,be a one size fits all policy and unfortunately that does mean that some will be worse off than others ,that is life and will always be the case

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well you replied to me there but you said nothing

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Yes i did ,i said that the system you want is unworkable ,it would certainly be the fairest but just not possible

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so you are happy sitting back watching the innocent poorest amongst use suffer?

Your views lead me to think that is the case. As far as I am aware I have not mentioned a system? I just do not want ATOS ruining peoples lives or the Bedroom Tax. I just do not want Cameron to continue chipping away saving a few quid here and a few quid there when bigger better money saving solutions are out there but they are the tougher less popular with big business decisions so the poor are left to suffer

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This is the problem as far as i can see ,you are only concerned with the bits that affect you such as mentioned above, most people look at the big picture.I am not happy that poor people suffer that is an idiotic thing to say ,and i must say the only argument you and some others here seem capable of using,it is very insulting and extremely shortsighted.
I fully realise that in any society there will be be people who get tough breaks ,thankfully we live in a society that caters for them ,but catering for them does not mean it should be done to the detriment of those who are capable of supporting themselves either through will or just plain good luck

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I am getting fed up with people blaming Cameron, blaming the current government for the awful mess that Labour left the country in when they were finally given the boot. Absolute *****.

Re: David Cameron -hold your head in shame
 

:clap:

Thats bang on target.

---------- Post added at 12:23 ---------- Previous post was at 12:22 ----------

100% agree Paul

Just look at Labours track record whilst in power

They spent all the money so then then sold off the gold for as little as they could get. having then spent that monet they raided the pension plans and spent all that money. Meanwhile they took us in to 2 wars and one of them by lying.

To top it off they then borrowed even more money and spent that as well.

As for the EU they sold us down the river by handing over more power than any other Government ever has.

Labour are as trustworthy as a snake oil salesman and Arthur supports these idiots

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Tony Blair did not exactly inherit a booming economy from Major did he this economy has been boom and bust in repeated patterns over and over again

you do all of course realise that a party loses an election because something is going wrong so both parties are equally unable to develop a working system

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Some people are blaming Cameron for the policies and cuts he's doing saying that he's only doing it because of the previous government.
they believe that he'd do them anyway, but fortunately for him he can keep using the same old excuse. it's absolute *****.

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Wow ,that's a statement and a half ,one that goes against what leading economists,the figures themselves and Blair himself has said .Blair ,upon his election, decided to continue with Thatcherite policies and continued to have a stable economy similar to the one he inherited from the conservatives untill he decided to go his way and announced a massive increase in public spending ,buried us deeper into Europe and abandoned Thatchers policies in the run up to the 2001 election .After he did that it all went wrong .

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Well he's done nearly 3 years now, and he's got 2 left.
how much as he reduced the debt by, and how much more is he going to reduce it by 'if' he manages to stay in for the other 2 years?

pretend that he was in for another 5 years after this. no doubt he'd still be blaming labour for everything even though he's just had 5 years to reduce the debt.

how much as he reduced it by so far again?

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The present government is very limited in what they can actually do simply because people like you won't give up the freebies handed out by Blair/Brown .Most of the changes won't show any appreciable difference for a few years yet ,much the same as when Thatcher was in charge .Her policies introduced when she took power didn't take effect untill well into her second term .Equally policies used by previous governments take a long time to get rid of .It's a very short sighted and naive view to think that major change in society and economical revival can take place overnight in political terms .
The main objective for any government coming into office is to survive the next election.Many have already said when Cameron got to power that he will never win the next election because the decisions he has to take for this countries economic survival will be so unpopular labour will return What most ,like you ,don't realise is that if Labour do get back in power the NHS reforms,welfare reforms, etc will not be repealed because labour will have to continue the cuts

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That is so far from the truth it can not see the truth because it is a tiny spec in outer space

None of these effect me mate at all the Bedroom Tax did but I can claim Child benefit so it does not for 2 years. Oh and I am thinking about the bigger picture we need radicle changes. I do not have the answers I do not know most of the questions and perhaps I remember the past and Thatcher differently to you or Paul but one thing I know for sure is the boom and bust cycle just shows that what we are a county are doing is not working so its time for something different

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If it doesn't work like that, then why did Nick say that "his government is wiping the slate clean of debt"?
is it the case that the muppet made it up?

we don't hear or see a lot from him lately. is he on the Xbox all day or something?

Re: David Cameron -hold your head in shame
 

the second part is correct though whether you believe the first or not

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The first part is not a case of me believing it ,it is historical fact .

The second part is largely true ,with the conservatives i remember it was the 'sleaze' aspect of their latter days in office with labour it was economic mismanagement that bit them up the jacksey,it is unfair to blame the worldwide crisis on them but being unable to withstand the crisis better and not needing such stringent austerity measures than we have is purely down to them.
One thing that does stand out about labour is their ineptitude in economic management and one thing that does stand out about conservatives is their ability to control and manage an economy, we do need a middle ground ,that much i agree on or the swings and roundabouts will continue

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But I thought Brown had sorted out the boom and bust thing? Mr Prudence told us that again and again didn't he? :confused:

Bliar and Brown inherited an economy in far better shape than this one was in 2010 and they didn't have to contend with the EU imploding too and having to help bail out other countries. It really isn't difficult to spend money, even money you don't have. It's popular amongst swathes of the electorate too. Couple spend, spend, spend with lies and spin and you have a recipe for a long stay in govt. and, as a bonus, a massive problem for the next incumbents to deal with. Buy now, pay tomorrow... We can and should argue about the rights and wrongs of specific policies and how far austerity measures should be taken but I admire this govt. for at least acknowledging what needs to be done and trying to deal with it by taking tough decisions which are unpopular. If Blair, or Miliband for that matter, was at the helm now they'd be lying through their teeth to win the next election, promising all sorts of goodies and delaying the inevitable pain just to get re-elected. They'd be whiter than white, have no plans to raises taxes, no intention of introducing tuition fees and every intention of spending more on the NHS, schools, welfare blah, blah blah. There'd be no losers except the rich, the bankers and the toffs who'd be made to squeal.* In opposition now, all you get from the architects of this present mess is denial of their huge failures, silence about their plans (if they have have any) and a pretence that somehow there'll be no pain for 'ordinary people' if/when they get back in power. After all the lies and spin, the fact that some people are still naive and/or desperate enough to believe this BS is quite staggering. One the one hand they can't bring themselves to accept what went wrong during 13 years of a secure Labour majority in parliament but on the other are quite happy to jump on the failure of the ConDems to sort it all out pain free after 3 years of shakey coalition and massive turmoil in Europe and the US which, as little as 5 years ago was unthinkable.




*Odd how the rich gort richer and the poor poorer under Labour but don't worry about that mere detail... lol

Re: David Cameron -hold your head in shame
 

It's not entirely unfair to blame them, and in particular Gordon Brown. In the mid 1990s he did sign up to changes in the banking system that allowed the kind of abuses that contributed to the current recession.

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I am no fan of Labour either. We have no left and right like we did in Thatcher/ Foot/Kinnock's day its all just a blur now

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That would be down to Blair and his New Labour 'third way' policies which seem to me to be a mix of conservative and labour doctrines ,sounds great on paper but doesn't appear to work in reality.It was a great political experiment at the expense of the UK voters

Re: David Cameron -hold your head in shame
 

I was saying almost the same thing yesterday :)

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To me it is absolute proof that finding the middle way in politics is very hard if not impossible in reality .I liken it to Communism which on paper is the perfect solution ,everybody equal ,no class system and everything for the people ,and we all know how that turned out don't we

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but capitalism is not turning out much better. Greed and the acquisition of material wealth above all other

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I think that a major problem is that have members thought about this.

The coalition are hitting there vulnerable, the poor and the working person,
YET, the banking system are getting away with murder and don't give a damn about the customer.
They wont apply the Mansion Tax, yet want to hit us with the Bedroom Tax - why, the rich members of businesses donate to the Tory Party.

Recently, Cameron and Osborne were seen having a major party which we paid for in our taxes, if that was one of us, we would get slated.

And today l was watching a programme where an elderly lady was hit by high bills and no one would help until the great Red Cross got involved.

We all know where the Coalition policies lay, and that's not with the working person.

Coming up soon you will have them taking away the Tv Licence for the elderly, free travel for the elderly and yet they will still send billions to overseas countries.

Re: David Cameron -hold your head in shame
 

At least with capitalism everybody has the opportunity for the acquisition of wealth .Socialism is about removing that wealth from individuals that have it and giving it to the ones that don't .Capitalism should(given the right circumstances of course) give people the opportunity to earn that wealth for themselves.

Re: David Cameron -hold your head in shame
 

I remember a few years ago our local council were found to have spent £110 on toilet seats in the council house.

You imagine how much money it costs to maintain the houses of parliament I bet you will find no austerity there

---------- Post added at 11:53 ---------- Previous post was at 11:51 ----------

But money and wealth are artificial we only need them to live on because are culture dictates it.

Re: David Cameron -hold your head in shame
 

Nevertheless we need it because that is how society works and has worked for thousands of years ,back to the times of swapping a donkey for a bushel of wheat .In a few thousand years we may achieve the "Star Trek" utopia where money is redundant but in the hear and now we need it

Re: David Cameron -hold your head in shame
 

but you are happy for those in need to lose some of what they need ;)

Re: David Cameron -hold your head in shame
 

Depends on who you mean by "in need" .Many of those in need are ,if examined closely ,aren't as in need as you think

Re: David Cameron -hold your head in shame
 

glad you said many there and not most. Have you done much examination recently you are on a council estate? Plenty of examples round me on mine of people in need. Living in virtual squalor undecorated houses no carpets damp. Private and Council the same. Paying more on electric metres because they struggle to pay the bills. Having to choose to be warm or eat. This is a reality. And some of those are going to be losing money soon so it will be even worse

Re: David Cameron -hold your head in shame
 

and how many of those will be living in squalor because they think more about getting booze ,fags ,drugs and other non essentials .I have repeatedly said that in the course of my work over at least 15yrs doing refurbs on council properties i have seen people living as you describe but they still manage to have 200 tabs and a box of beer ,they still go down the club on a saturday night and still manage a tv/bb subscription ,just don't see putting a bit of paint on the walls and getting a cheap carpet as essential

Re: David Cameron -hold your head in shame
 

perhaps you are hitting on the psychological cost of despair

Re: David Cameron -hold your head in shame
 

No ,i am hitting on the fact that different people have different priorities .Your previous post assumed that people live like that because they are forced to by financial circumstances ,i maintain that ,whilst that may be true for some equally some choose to spend the money given by the state on fags ,booze ,drugs ,tv subs and nights in the pub ,and then blame the state because they have no carpets and paint on the walls .Because someone lives in squallor does not mean they always desperate .I have a brother in law exactly like that.

Re: David Cameron -hold your head in shame
 

Many years ago, l worked for a deep cleaning company and worked at the Houses of Parliament for three months.

The amount of money that is waisted there is a disgrace, We were amongst FIVE companies doing the SAME work, towards the end of each day, food is thrown away which could have been given to the needy and the alcohol that is bought is not the stuff you buy out of Tescos.

Just before l started my present job (which is under threat) l delivered wine to them and my god it was always the best stuff.

And there was always building work going on.

The coalition have no problems in spending money on them self, but to us its freeze it here and there, last year an MP had his office redecorated at rolls of wallpaper at £300.00 per roll, now if people have never been inside the offices there, there offices are as big as a large house.

Now why do they get better options than us, IF they want us to have cuts, then it should start at the top or is it too good for them to go to Tesco for there sandwichs.

Re: David Cameron -hold your head in shame
 

Respect to you Arthur.
you've done and worked everywhere! :)

Re: David Cameron -hold your head in shame
 

Over the years l have worked in Kitchen Hygiene (not a dishwasher or like that, if a any kitchen was condemded by the Health dept, then it would be the company that l worked for would go and clean the crap up, thats why l was at the Houses of Parliament), window cleaner, wine delivery driver, wheel clamping, and worked for a beer company and now l work for the public service.

I have Four years to go before l pack up, and if this awful government has there way it will be moved to five/six years so they won't pay my pension till then and l will have to live on a paltry !50.00 per week with my wife.

I have worked all my life and putting thousands of pounds to the various government and keeping various PMs in luxury and yet when l live they will let to scrimp and scrapped, and l think that is a disgrace.