Humans are Plague on Earth - Attenborough
 

Link

I have to say I agree with him 100%. For most of my adult life I've believed that we need to curb our population otherwise nature will do it for us. Its just a shame that we're likely to destroy much of the planet/environment before we eventually learn, if we ever learn. Its all so very tragic.

Re: Humans are Plague on Earth - Attenborough
 

The Earth is a self correcting system. The Earth will go on and so will life, but if we don't change then it will be the end for us.


EDIT:
Hans Rosling: Global population growth, box by box

Re: Humans are Plague on Earth - Attenborough
 

I don't worry about any of this stuff, Jeremy Clarkson has all the answers and he'll see us through. :rolleyes:

Re: Humans are Plague on Earth - Attenborough
 

Well you can't argue with that really.....

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2013/01/61.jpg

Re: Humans are Plague on Earth - Attenborough
 

Cats. Cats will take over the world. :erm:

Re: Humans are Plague on Earth - Attenborough
 

Obviously my views lean towards the spiritual but even on those terms as well as evolutionary, we are vastly over-inflating our own importance on the planet. We are only the (self-imposed) dominant species because God/nature/whatever-you-believe-in allows us to be.

A good example is the weather. We may think we're awesome enough to get a Short Circuit-type robot on another planet but all it takes is for nature to slightly alter the Gulf Stream to give us the chaos that the rain caused last year.

Re: Humans are Plague on Earth - Attenborough
 

Cats with opposable thumbs.

Re: Humans are Plague on Earth - Attenborough
 

What we need is some form of human culling.
it's just deciding who to start with.

Re: Humans are Plague on Earth - Attenborough
 

If you believe you are a plague, feel free to stamp yourself out. ;)

I subscribe to the Christian belief that the human race was put on Earth to tend and keep it, and it is our failure to be faithful to that command that causes problems for our planet, not the mere fact of our existence.

Re: Humans are Plague on Earth - Attenborough
 

Our brains! :D

But yes controlling the climate is a step too far for us at the moment. Ultimately even if we manage in reign in the earth and manage nature we'll still face the prospect of the sun burning out.

We need to colonise other planets!!

Re: Humans are Plague on Earth - Attenborough
 

And l gather you are going to put yourself forward as the first volunteer.;)

Re: Humans are Plague on Earth - Attenborough
 

Anyone who isn't meek?

No culling required, just need to start venturing into the solar system, that's why we have projects to mars.. So eventually we can colonise mars and the moon.

Just needs doing sooner rather than later... Lots of species are threatened and nobody learns, whales, tigers etc

Re: Humans are Plague on Earth - Attenborough
 

We don't need to go even that far. There's still vast capacity here on Earth. I'm surprised to hear Attenborough blaming overpopulation in Ethiopia for famine, for example. That's thinly-disguised 19th-century Malthusian nonsense. Ethiopia's population density is considerably lower than, say, the UK or France. What it lacks is not breathing space, but the technology and infrastructure to sustain itself. Time and time again, wherever in the modern world a society has become developed, it has overturned Malthus' prediction that population would outstrip agricultural production, resulting in famine and death.

Re: Humans are Plague on Earth - Attenborough
 

We were killing right from the very start. God, we even killed Jesus of all men.

---------- Post added at 10:05 ---------- Previous post was at 10:03 ----------

I was going to give you £50 to get the ball rolling :)

---------- Post added at 10:10 ---------- Previous post was at 10:05 ----------

I think we should give them a break. they've already got the British government on their backs.

Re: Humans are Plague on Earth - Attenborough
 

You spelled "rats" wrong. ;)

Re: Humans are Plague on Earth - Attenborough
 

There is still plenty of space around for humans but a) making that space available for habitation, agriculture etc. involves an environmental cost and b) if it is done, it simply promotes further population growth which then adds to the original problem. There's a vast amount of space in places like Australia, Canada and Russia which could in theory be habitable but would in practice be highly susceptible to further adverse climatic changes which could quickly render it uninhabitable. We're already suffering the problem here where land designated as flood plains has been built on - all very well until the rain starts falling and the rivers overflowing. Even where such land is left as agricultural we face the problem of much needed food supplies being destroyed. How much more serious would that prospect be if our population was significantly greater and our resources overstretched.

So far as I can see, the argument isn't about whether the planet could become terminally overpopulated, it's just a question of at what point that happens. The only conceivable 'solution' I can see is controlling population but how's that ever going to be achieved in practice?

Yep the belief is that we was created by an extra terrestrial race of beings originally to serve them, which is why in lots of ancient texts like ancient Egypt and also civilisations before them it pictures strange images of rocket shaped objects and what appears to be who we know as the greys. Which is how the whole concept of worship and gods occurred.. Because to early humanity, we was probably very open to suggestion and nieve and all it took was for people appearing to make miracles happen which we didnt understand to make us believe them to be gods more powerful than us.

Re: Humans are Plague on Earth - Attenborough
 

if someone hadn't I was gonna lol

---------- Post added at 12:04 ---------- Previous post was at 12:01 ----------


what is going to happen is this. Water levels will rise taking away land. The planet will continue to Warm up. Arid land will spread from the equator. Land masses will flood leaving less land to go around. There will be war and genocide 3rd world countries will be taken over by the better armed countries and there will be endless fighting for resources

Re: Humans are Plague on Earth - Attenborough
 

Well you've successfully blended several mythologies there.

Just FYI, the typical "grey" alien image didn't really take off until 'Close Encounter' was released. Then every alien sighting and abduction involved one of these guys.

Re: Humans are Plague on Earth - Attenborough
 

Plus the interior of 'alien craft' started having clocks and dials from around the time human machinery began using them.

Re: Humans are Plague on Earth - Attenborough
 

very similar thoughts. I have always thought we are virus to the planet more akin to locusts.

My thoughts is the planet like living breathing thing which tries to eradicate those who attack it.

Might wanna tell the Egyptians that, although to be fair it's not grey lol but it resembles what people perceive now as a grey.

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2013/01/13.gif

And the Sumer who came before them

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2013/01/1.jpeg

Remarkably similar for civilisations that were a long period apart.

But back on topic, apart from making species extinct earth is indeed self healing, but population control isn't the answer for a developing world, solution is moving out into the universe and colonising other planets.

Which is what the work behind mars exploration is all about
.

Re: Humans are Plague on Earth - Attenborough
 

Egyptian carvings contain a lot of strange things - but mostly the strange things are humanoid figures with animal heads. Are those alien visitors too, or is it just the ones that fit the conspiracy theory?

Re: Humans are Plague on Earth - Attenborough
 

Erm, the Egyptian and Sumerian civilisations were at approximately the same time (founded approx. 3100BC - not counting the disparate city-states that preceded them) - the Sumerians settled around the Tigris/Euphrates (today's Iraq), and the Egyptians around the Nile.

They were around 800-1000 miles apart.

Re: Humans are Plague on Earth - Attenborough
 

You who else the Egyptian's worshipped? Cats. Let again placing cats at the center of our history. The question is what are their plans for us? What are they waiting for? When will they ascend to take what is rightfully theirs?

We're through the looking glass here people....

Re: Humans are Plague on Earth - Attenborough
 

For the first time in ages I've rated a thread..keep it up I need a good laugh..:D

They didn't worship cats, cats were just considered guardians of the afterlife.

More astonishing though is how some religions today worship cows!

Re: Humans are Plague on Earth - Attenborough
 

those are the group sagittarians going amok, do keep up chris;):D

seriously lots weird ancient carvings all over the world point to some mysteric past we may never know. That I have no answer for other than those carvers had creative minds.

Re: Humans are Plague on Earth - Attenborough
 

Thanks for that Chris, so very spiritual of you..lol but I'm sure you're just teasing.
I don't think Sir Attenborough ever intended to suggest its the mere existence of humans that's the problem so much as the choices mankind has made and continues to make, and if so then I agree with him.

I'm a "dyed in the wool" environmentalist, I live within my means, come from a small family and don't go around breeding.
Plague? Well I suppose that depends on your definition. If everyone lived as I do, I'm sure our planet would be a lot better off. And I think we'd all be better off too.
But yes, I do realise that even as an environmentalist my actions are leading to the destruction of the planet too, since I'm still a consumer and I buy all sorts of unnecessary junk. However, I do feel powerless to bring about positive environmental change as do many people. In my view, it's not people like us that can be (entirely) blamed for the environmental destruction, but rather those within our society who've been entrusted with the power to bring about change but yet refuse to do it. Historically it's nearly always the case that those who can easily bring about change, are the primary beneficiaries of the then status quo and hence have a vested interested in maintaining it. These people also tend to be very wealthy, and so their interest is usually driven not by survival, but by one form of greed or another.

So although as a consumer I'm still part of the plague, I nibble on the left over corn stalks or whatever the upper echelon master locusts deem too menial for their own privileged consumption. I serve my masters with humble protest, usually preferring not to feed in swarm, but never without a sense of guilt.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y15...lyconsumer.jpg

They do indeed, but most religions are based around some kind of external influence manipulating people and playing on nieve people.

Think about it, if you went back today 2000 years and started treating people with modern medicine they too would probably think you are a god because you have miraculously healed somebody that would of normally died.

And it is completely plausible that some kind of alien race did that thousands of years ago.

Yes it sounds absurd, but I still dunno why some people are narrow minded enough to believe we are the only living intelligence in the universe.

Say we did evolve on our own, no external influences on this planet.

We are a single solar system in the Milky Way galaxy, there's millions if not more star systems in the Milky Way, and the Milky Way is just one galaxy... There are also billions of galaxies... The Big Bang happened a few billion years ago and ever since the universe has been expanding at the speed of light so even 1 million light years is nothing in terms of the size of the universe... And there are people who think in that massive expanse we are the only intelligent living life?

Re: Humans are Plague on Earth - Attenborough
 

Interesting example, if I may broaden it slightly, the Mars mission launch (as impressive as it was/is) went ahead only when weather permitting...

Re: Humans are Plague on Earth - Attenborough
 

Which religions would that be?

(Not Hinduism, as the cow is regarded as sacred, but not worshipped).

Re: Humans are Plague on Earth - Attenborough
 

Re: Humans are Plague on Earth - Attenborough
 

if you count Jewish people in the Exodus as "early Christians", yes, they did....;)

Re: Humans are Plague on Earth - Attenborough
 

You are confusing the concepts of "imaginable" and "plausible". Just because you can construct a sentence that describes a scenario, it does not follow that that scenario is plausible. For it to be plausible, it must meet a number of conditions - the laws of physics being chief among them.

Sorry to pour cold water on all this fantasising, but Stargate SG-1 was a TV drama series, not a documentary. As was Star Trek. Both of those shows were guilty of dressing up their plot lines with pseudo-science, giving the impression that what occurred in them might not only be plausible, but an almost inevitable future stage of our scientific development. Sadly that is not the case.

Dr Brian May made an interesting point on Astronomy Live the other week - essentially that the chances of life occurring are so utterly slim, that despite the fact that exo-planets are now known to be common, it is entirely likely that Earth is still the only place where it has taken place. Even if life is common, and has developed into intelligent life on at least one other planet, Einstein established in the last century that it would take an impossibly long time for that life to cross from one planet to another.

Holding that Earth is the only place in the universe where intelligent life exists is not "narrow minded" - it's an entirely rational approach to the minuscule probabilities involved. And neither is holding that intelligent life could not find its way to Earth.

Re: Humans are Plague on Earth - Attenborough
 

Don't forget Battlestar Galactica, which might as well have been written by Eric von Daniken.

I always like to keep an open mind, I like the mystery of ancient times. But if we were visited by aliens in the past, I would have thought there would be more evidence, and that they might have been back by now.

Re: Humans are Plague on Earth - Attenborough
 

I like ancient mysteries too ... One of the reasons I studied Archaeology for my degree. However, an important lesson I learned in studying ancient artefacts is that the term "primitive" is rarely a fair one when applied to ancient humans and their civilisations. They were every bit as inventive and intelligent as we are and did incredible things within the confines of the knowledge they had discovered at any given time.

If anything, I think it's narrow minded to look at ancient achievements and to refuse to accept that they were actually made by human hands, as if it's only in the modern era that the human race has achieved anything of note.

Re: Humans are Plague on Earth - Attenborough
 

I think there probably is life out there, somewhere, but impossibly far from us. If it's intelligent and what that ever means on their planet is another issue entirely.

Re: Humans are Plague on Earth - Attenborough
 

The Fermi Paradox, for your delight and elucidation.

Re: Humans are Plague on Earth - Attenborough
 

Re: Humans are Plague on Earth - Attenborough
 

I've often wondered about the possibility of whether or not we're being visited, haven't we all.

I'm a keen sky gazer and always have been, and in my time I've seen well over a hundred shooting stars. I've even seen one fireball ! It was brief, but it looked like a green flare that came down and probably landed in the sea off the Essex coast (though it appeared to burn out before reaching it). After a quick search, it looked like this, but not quite as bright. Probably only lasted about 1.5 seconds or so. Having lived in various military air bases in my life, I've seen most military aircraft (even the F-117 stealth fighter) and have seen aircraft landing lights that hang in the sky for many minutes often fooling people into thinking they've seen an alien craft. As a teenager, for fun I made a number of "hot air ballons" akin to Chinese lanterns. I'd use thin transparent bin liners craftily constructed with an aluminium alcohol burner (using the bottom of a soda can so as to be heat resistant, filled with some alcohol) attached to the bottom of the bag to provide a heat source. Up in the night sky, they do look very UFO like, but I'd hardly see something like that and assume it must be aliens...as some people apparently do. I think I make a reasonably reliable witness, just sayin'.

However, despite my life long passion for night time sky gazing, it wasn't until 2012 that I finally saw something in the sky that I could not identify - and it was quite impressive at the time.

It happened during the 2012 olympics closing ceremony. I was outside on the veranda around 10'ish (or half 9'ish, can't remember, but it was quite dark), it was a perfectly clear night, probably thousands of stars visible. I saw what I assumed to be a satellite, as they appear regularly travelling from west to east. They are visible, because even late at night, they are still illuminated by the sun at their immense altitude. I watched this "satellite" for about 15 seconds, and then suddenly it reversed direction !! Very excited, I immediately shouted my partner to come out and take a look, and we watched it dart all over the sky for several minutes. It then hung in the sky (about the brightness of a dim star) for about 40 minutes. However after 15 minutes or so I went back inside and only checked on it every 10 minutes or so, beginning to wonder if maybe I was looking at a star (as the light has passed many stars), however it was parked next to a prominent star in the sky, and well, after about 40 minutes had passed, and after having checked on it several times, it was finally gone (confirming that this was no star afterall) - but I missed its departure.
I'm very certain, there is nothing man made that could explain this.

A few things worthy of mention, even if I'd had a special night camera at hand, all you'd see in the footage would be a little light on a black background, and it would still prove nothing. Furthermore, as this light was quite dim, you really had to be looking at that part of the sky to even see it. If you were driving on the motorway and it were above you, you wouldn't see it. And finally, I noticed a very slight trail on this light/object when it was moving. A bit like what you see when you look at a moving light using night vision, but not as pronounced as that. A number of UFO clips I've seen on youtube look EXACTLY like this, a little white light with a short fading trail behind it. Could just be coincidence of course.
I swear to God, the above it the absolute truth, just as it happened.

Its not exactly an alien abduction encounter, but it's my own little UFO sighting, and I was ecstatic at the time. My partner and I were quite excited, just watching this little light dart all over the night sky, no rhyme or reason to it, it wasn't even travelling in straight lines either, but the movements lasted for several minutes.
If you had seen this with your own eyes, what more proof would you need?

Re: Humans are Plague on Earth - Attenborough
 

Digressing, but this one always amazes me:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOVQOi2GVvw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eil_2WOv5VA

Re: Humans are Plague on Earth - Attenborough
 

them;)

Re: Humans are Plague on Earth - Attenborough
 

That's where I'd start too :)

Re: Humans are Plague on Earth - Attenborough
 

yup them are every where you look ,there like rabbits put two of them in a box turn your back and there's three of them.;)

Depends on if "you" hold more intellectual value or not than "us"

Re: Humans are Plague on Earth - Attenborough
 

A UFO is exactly what it means........"Unidentified". It does not mean it is not of this Earth.

It makes me laugh, that the default position is "alien spaceship". When, realistically, there is no evidence whatsoever.

I refute religious supreme beings on lack of evidence and by the same token I refute aliens.

Whilst still keeping an open on both, I might add. In so far as, I wouldn't completely rule it out and look forward to being presented with the evidence.

Yep and some of those UFO are disputed to be of American origin.

Because they did steal the nazi bell, it's scientists and engineers all the paperwork and documentation relating to that project.

Re: Humans are Plague on Earth - Attenborough
 

Was that the Nazi Bell spaceship, or the Nazi Bell time machine?

Re: Humans are Plague on Earth - Attenborough
 

Yeah they'll be Chinese copies. ;)

Neither, it wasn't any kind of craft or ship it was a scientific experimental project into cancelling out gravity.

All that remains of it is a few eye whiteness accounts and a giant concrete ring on top of pillars that was supposedly part of what made it work.

Americans took very thing related to it.

Re: Humans are Plague on Earth - Attenborough
 

Well, if there's going to be a human culling, they can start with a guy I saw on "Homes under the hammer", today, who proclaimed he wanted 12 kids, simply because his grandmother had 12.

And I agree with Sir Attenborough (and agent Smith)

I'm glad we're currently unable to spread ourselves to other planets.

Another quote I remember fondly is from the Day the earth stood still film.

Re: Humans are Plague on Earth - Attenborough
 

that's one of the theories - another one was that (if it existed) it was an attempt at a way of producing fissile material.

Re: Humans are Plague on Earth - Attenborough
 

I rarely agree with anything you post but 'hammer', 'nail' and 'head' with that. I saw a UFO next to the Eiffel Tower 20 years ago. It just hung there in the dark, a single light and not close enough to be part of the tower itself and unlikely to be a helicopter as there were no other lights on or around it. It then just vanished. Unidentified? Yep. Flying? Seemed to be. An object? Yes. Something from another planet? No idea and neither do I have any reason to assume it was.

Again, massive 'agree'.

Not surprisingly I don't agree with the first part of that (not gong any further with it other than there is plenty of room on Earth for infinite beliefs and views) however I think what we know (or think we do) about humans, life, the planet, it's history and probable future) is a tiny fraction of how it really is.