Superhub 2
 

Not my area of expertise, but one of the lads in the office just received a new Superhub 2 to test a load of stuff on. So can't be too long before they start rolling it out.

Re: Superhub 2
 

It will be interesting to see what BenMcr has to say about this (If he is allowed)!

Re: Superhub 2
 

pictures?

Re: Superhub 2
 

yeah is a must, to see it
or at least...
Is netgear?
Has modem mode?

Re: Superhub 2
 

It is Netgear

It does have Modem Mode

It's unmistakebly a Virgin Media design, follows the same design principles of the hub/ superhub. Vbox HD and Tivo.

Re: Superhub 2
 

Good news for modem mode
Thank Youuuu ;)

Re: Superhub 2
 

Would love to see a picture though?

Re: Superhub 2
 

I have a picture, but I'm afraid loyalty to the company that pays my wages prevents me from publishing it.

Like I say, think along the lines of what has come before, it's not a massive departure design wise.

Re: Superhub 2
 

I might be wrong but i think they will not be allowed to post pictures yet.

****Edit**** Pierre beat me to it. :tu:

Re: Superhub 2
 

The email for testers said it would be some time in February. Let's hope it's earlier :)

Re: Superhub 2
 

Let's hope it's later and they get it right this time, so it's a more interesting challenge to break it!

Re: Superhub 2
 

Pierre might be able to hint at the firmware version. Also a little screwdrive job to see if there are indeed 5 antennae inside would be useful.

Re: Superhub 2
 

And possibly cause him employment trouble as discussing the number of antennae could be considered discussing the capabilities of the device in a public forum.

Re: Superhub 2
 

Even the initial post revealing the device is out for testing could be seen in a poor light...

Re: Superhub 2
 

5 would be a strange number to have

---------- Post added at 16:40 ---------- Previous post was at 16:39 ----------

For a device that is being released to the general public, public knowledge is harmful how?

Re: Superhub 2
 

Would like to hope this will be rolled out sooner, but I would assume if they have loads of testing etc. to carry out it could be months before Superhub 2 become available to the masses & that's on the assumption it’s not just an option for new customers or a chargeable upgrade.

Still very positive news that VM are looking at a replacement.

Re: Superhub 2
 

Go work for Apple, then discuss the capabilities of the next generation of any of their products. See how long your contract lasts.

Put simply, public knowledge per se is not harmful. What most companies do consider harmful is letting their competitors know the capabilities of their products before they are ready for release. They don't want to give their competitors advance notice of those capabilities as that would give their competitors time to react.

You don't think Sky and BT have employees that check out public forums from time to time? I don't know about BT (although I would be surprised if they didn't do it), but I have it on good authority that Sky do.

In regards to apple their staff aren't even allowed to discuss their pay.

It's why pay is never advertised on their job adverts and also won't easily find somebody online mentioning their pay either as its all in their NDA when they got the job.

Re: Superhub 2
 

I'll be honest, Apple are an extreme example, but most companies forbid discussion in public of the technical capabilities of future products. Even VM (from what I am told) require their testers to sign NDAs.

Re: Superhub 2
 

There's a difference with Apple though. Apple relies on the uniqueness of their products and competes primarily based on that exclusivity. VM has a monopoly on the supply of routers for their own service, and complete lock-in. In any case nothing VM come up with is going to be "next generation" or in any way anything but a generic commodity product that hundreds of others already have.

Simply put VM are not reliant on the exclusivity of their bundled CPE to compete for customers. Nobody switches to VM because their "Superhub (2)" has exclusive features you cannot get elsewhere.

Re: Superhub 2
 

Its in testing, everything I have ever tested for VM/NTL has usually come with an NDA.

That is why they want it out of the public eye until its ready to be released.

Re: Superhub 2
 

But as we know from the last time, they 'tested it' back then, in secrecy and with a limited bunch of customers. And from what I hear, they ignored complaints about the wifi, dragged their heels on modem mode and we got the superhub we all know and love.

Re: Superhub 2
 

It was what I gleaned from the CGD3700 spec. Maybe I misunderstood it.

Re: Superhub 2
 

They did indeed test it, I was on the trial it lasted many months.

However that's not the point, NDA are put in force to keep new products in the public eye until testing is over, usually as said products aren't stable enough or companies want it to be a secret to prevent others seeing or copying designs or hardware.

Re: Superhub 2
 

I hope that the lessons have been learned as to what has to be tested and how in relation to the subsequent weaknesses found in the current SH.

Are you still under NDA and can't divulge what was tested and what instructions you were given?

Re: Superhub 2
 

I honestly don't know any technical specs. All I can say is that I have seen, and held, the unit.

It's says Netgear on it, and it has "modem mode" written on the back.

I wont post any pictures because they will want to launch it properly and not by some dodgy photos on a forum.

I haven't divulged anything sensitive, we all knew the new hub was coming. All I've said is I've seen it.

Re: Superhub 2
 

the one you mentioned


---------- Post added at 19:53 ---------- Previous post was at 19:52 ----------

In this case maybe is safest ... Mods delete thread?

Re: Superhub 2
 

5 Antennae isn't unusual at all for a decent router. This might actually not be terrible for wireless.

I'd still rather have my own router, though, but only because I appreciate the likes of Tomato - if they give the SH2 decent wireless capabilities then it'll be fine.

Re: Superhub 2
 

My guess is not everyone will get it...maybe for now only higher 120mb users

Re: Superhub 2
 

They'll probably do it the same way they do the Superhub now - give it out as standard to new connections (starting with just the top-tiers until they run out of stock of the older models, then everyone gets it) and if you want to upgrade, you can pay a pretty price.

When the Superhub first appeared, they stopped handing out the Ambit 300 to 50meg and higher customers, but to get rid of the old stock they started giving them to people on the lower tiers. I remember a lady calling in to activate her Ambit 300 Modem on a 10mbit connection.

As an aside, the Ambit 300 really doesn't like 10Mbit speeds.

Re: Superhub 2
 

LOL, Kushan. On some 50 meg circuits, the peops didn't like the 10 meg speeds!

Re: Superhub 2
 

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/12...-a-page-3.html

---------- Post added at 22:08 ---------- Previous post was at 22:05 ----------

im glad you an ex employee at VM has said that. if you read through the thread above youll see i suggested pretty much the same but Peter and co said it wasnt likely and instead it'll be whatevers picked off the shelve... which is just insane in my opinion.

Re: Superhub 2
 

I should point out that I wasn't a tech and how they do things sometimes varies from region to region. That and not everyone follows the policy virgin puts in place.

Re: Superhub 2
 

flexibility is a good thing but total benders isnt. lost revenue/pr/business potential annoys me.

Re: Superhub 2
 

What does that mean? It annoys you if a company loses revenue? What annoys you about PR and business potential?

Re: Superhub 2
 

put me in VM and ill show you.

Re: Superhub 2
 

That's not answering my question.

Re: Superhub 2
 

actions speak louder than words Seph. plus i need a job. im done being a critic for free.

Re: Superhub 2
 

Yeah - but you spout this stuff and then don't back it up.

Re: Superhub 2
 

ive never had official VM employment to back it up.

---------- Post added at 23:59 ---------- Previous post was at 23:53 ----------

anyway back on topic... can we talk about the LEDs ? :LOL:

Re: Superhub 2
 

Urgh 3-stream at 5Ghz and 2-stream at 2.4Ghz. Why does everyone go for such a stupid and backwards configuration.

Re: Superhub 2
 

That are the specs at NG web page (for the specific)

Re: Superhub 2
 

Better than the current SH. Won't have to hang the new one up on the living room lampshade!

Re: Superhub 2
 

So you have senior management experience in running business and product development, Corporate PR and Marketing functions, including running multi-million cross-media programmes?

Re: Superhub 2
 

Why is that backwards? (Not a wireless expert, actually asking).

Re: Superhub 2
 

No, not any experience.

Re: Superhub 2
 

The main benefits of an additional antenna/MIMO stream/transceiver chain/whatever you want to call it are increased spectral efficiency (more speed at a given amount of bandwidth), improved beamforming (more signal strength and immunity to interference) and diversity (more robust signal and immunity to interference).

The 2.4Ghz band is bandwidth limited and prone to interference, so that is exactly where you would benefit most from having an additional antenna. The 5Ghz band already provides double the bandwidth with in most cases, pretty much no interference, and theoretically ten times more allowed transmit power, meaning that's where you get the least benefit from having a third antenna.

Also, in practice, 5Ghz performance is often limited by the speed of the router's CPU rather than wireless, especially at above 300Mbps (2 streams) so going to 450 (3 streams) often makes little difference. At 2.4Ghz performance is typically bandwidth and interference limited, so the 50% better efficiency is more likely to map to 50% more actual performance.

Re: Superhub 2
 

Good see all you fanboys wetting your pants over a new Superdud. Question is course , does it work ? Until you've and many other poor VM 'customers/guinea pigs' have road tested it for me, I stick to my nice reliable ntl250 modem.

Keep me updated and cheers for the testing ;)

Re: Superhub 2
 

Modem mode works, why dont you join 2013 and get some docsis3 kit!

Re: Superhub 2
 

Wow watch that big fat chip on your shoulder there ;).

Re: Superhub 2
 

I seen this...


But I read it as this...

Re: Superhub 2
 

Think I'll stick with Docsis1 - never been more reliable, presumably because VM pushing current and new customers onto an an increasingly overcrowded Docsis3.

So this modem mode, presumably 'Superdude2' won't need it, if it works. If it has got got it, that's an admission of a crappy device to start off with.

Re: Superhub 2
 

Excellent :)

Re: Superhub 2
 

docsis1 isnt something you want to be on. docsis 1.1 at the very least!

actually no. for the average customer the combo kit would be good enough. for others it wont be for various reasons. having modem mode is a must regardless of crap or decent hardware.

Re: Superhub 2
 

Oh yes - if there is better service of course I'll upgrade (if it's free of course...)

However 20MB is more than enough for me and I suspect 95% of punters. If I'm getting a reliable service now no need to change to a Superdud which has faults. 10 MB more will make zilch difference in day to day use, all for a less reliable service on which I have to mess about with Modem mode as the equipment is pants.

Pity VM didn't do some testing on version 1 - oh, wait they have by using their customers..... I won't trust whatever VM say about it, but I do trust customers who kindly test it and pay for the privilege.

Maybe this Superdud2 is the real deal, but I'll wait and see (or until my ntl250 calls it a day ;) )

Re: Superhub 2
 

It's not an admission of anything. The superhub2 (Superduperhub?) could have first class wireless and people would still want a Modem-only mode because many of us prefer to run our own routers, due to more extensive firmware options or additional features. Hell, some people might just want to run their own DHCP server - it's called choice.

You keep calling it the "Superdud", but you keep overlooking the fact that it's actually fine as a Modem - its the wireless side and other router functions that it has issues with. The superhub, as a modem, is absolutely fine. That also means it's just as effective as your Ambit 250 modem, except that it can do DOCSIS3 which means better load balancing. Every single time you say you're sticking with your Ambit 250, you're showng that you don't actually pay attention to what those issues are. A superhub + whatever router you're using now would be just as effective and stable.
However, that being said - it also means you don't need a Superhub, you're happy with your 20mbit and that's great, we're all really happy for you but it also means your opinion on the only equipment that can go higher than 20 (Ambit 300 aside) is pretty much void.

Re: Superhub 2
 

Well said.

Re: Superhub 2
 

Without detracting from the technical truth of what you say, from the consumers' point of view the wretched thing is considered in the context of what VM claim for it:

Virgin Media Super Hub
Using the latest wireless ‘N’ technology, our Virgin Media Super Hub gives you a fantastic range and fewer blackspots. Top that off with the most advanced and secure wireless encryption technology we could lay our hands on and you stay secure and connected, wherever you are.

Against that, the suffering consumer will call it a "Dud". And with good cause.

Modem mode was added at R30 to alleviate that dudness and it comes at a high cost for the user who has to shell out £60 or more for a router to do what VM claims for the SH.

So a sympathetic degree of understanding is necessary towards customers who chose to call the thing a "dud".

Re: Superhub 2
 

This is very true and you make an excellent point. I would still say that anyone comparing it to JUST a modem though is missing the point a bit but you're right that it shouldn't be that way.

Re: Superhub 2
 

I think the topic is about the New SH 2... and is not out yet to criticise but we can comment what may be about it

I don't think is fair to talk or involve about the old ones or the current ... in this thread

Maybe nobody wished good luck this time to VM :dunce:

I have one more question if is ok to the trialist 's

Was reading old gossips ... home visits (not personal but fixing power levels to customers etc) from engineers, was mentioned the New SH 2 will have external antenna ... is true???
Of course if is ok to tell
Thanks

Re: Superhub 2
 

5 external antennas?

Re: Superhub 2
 

Νo 5 external ... 1-2, but again maybe was just gossip

Re: Superhub 2
 

No home visit here but my levels are pretty much borderline and I'm in the trial.

Re: Superhub 2
 

Part of my objection is if I'm going to have to use it as a standalone modem, I'd rather just be given a standalone modem to begin with. I'm forced to take a router, so it has to be compared to a router. I'd rather they just gave me a SACM like they used to, then I'd be happy to compare it to a modem. But the fact is, it isn't. This applies equally to any successor VM are rumored to be bringing out.

Principally if I get given a piece of kit where I'm going to turn off 80% of the components of, then frankly it'd been cheaper for everybody to have the option of leaving them out to begin with.

Re: Superhub 2
 

Qasi, this can be viewed from many angles. You've chosen one. I could moot another.

The SH is a SACM with optional router functions to get you going while you buy your own higher spec router.

Indeed, that would be the best line for VM to punt.

Re: Superhub 2
 

I don't think anyone is going to argue that the Superhub has issues - both in terms of wireless and as a router. The real issue is how Virgin handled it - poor marketing, an unwillingness to admit problems and poor testing (all the problems were well known before the Superhub Launched - and I was at Virgin when this was going on, I was part of the people that tested it - we made it very clear about the issues and they released it anyway).
At least Virgin is doing something about it with this new model, hopefully they'll make it more stable and boost the range - we can only but hope that the testing is more thorough this time. I know for a fact that Virgin had a release date in place for the SH before it even went into testing and the person who trained it out to me made a point of saying "When the testing is a success, the modem is going to be released on XXXX" because he knew how bad it was going to be.
All that aside, all we can do is wait and see how this one does. Any improvement is a good step, but we all know that there'll always be SOMEONE who isn't happy.

Re: Superhub 2
 

It's not the one they *are* punting though, as you've said yourself.

In and ideal world everyone would be doing the best thing.

Meh, I vote the Comcast way, both in terms of SACMs and traffic management.

---------- Post added at 12:40 ---------- Previous post was at 12:38 ----------

That would be interesting to see. The existing Superhub theoretically already transmits at the legal limit. Unless I'm right, which would be bad.

Re: Superhub 2
 

It may well do, but if I recall correctly, it has either a terrible antenna or none at all (I remember someone opening one up and they found a bog standard wireless card in there - like what you'd get on a cheap laptop - please correct me if I'm wrong, though). It certainly gets sub-par range than most routers so there's room for improvement somewhere.

Re: Superhub 2
 

Any relation to what it could be?:

http://www.downloads.netgear.com/fil...oC_21Dec12.pdf

Re: Superhub 2
 

The Wifi cert quotes a "Model/SKU #: CG4000TD, VMDG485" so probably. The CM specs are identical (no improvement) over the current SH though, so if they wanted better wireless quite why they didn't go for the cheaper option of upgrading the upgradeable wireless card on its own is beyond me.

---------- Post added at 14:49 ---------- Previous post was at 14:13 ----------

Notably, the Wifi certification includes 802.11h, something the original Superhub was missing.

802.11h allows ten times higher transmit power and selection from a total of 19 channels at 5Ghz instead of just 4 channels without it. Without 802.11h, i.e. as is the case now, the 5Ghz band has no more capacity and considerably less range than 2.4Ghz

Re: Superhub 2
 

I am not sure of course but i think is this one
http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/35525122-post214.html

Maybe few modify specs for exclusive use with VM
http://www.netgear.com/service-provi...3700B.aspx#one

http://www.downloads.netgear.com/fil...oC_27Nov12.pdf

Re: Superhub 2
 

That's apparently in the same range as the Superhub. It's also not Wi-Fi certified.

The new one is most likely:
http://certifications.wi-fi.org/pdf_...p?cid=WFA17015

Re: Superhub 2
 

Hmmm intresting
Can not see its specs at netgear page

Re: Superhub 2
 

That's because it's not publicly available, VM had it "custom built".

Re: Superhub 2
 

On most dual band 3x3 / 2x2 routers, it's 3 antennas, with the middle one beng the extra on 5GHz and the other two being dual band.
Also to be hoped the the dual band is upgraded to simultaneous, so that it can run both 5GHz and legacy 2.4GHz kit.

To be honest, the 2.4GHz band is a MESS - with just Wifi, it would be congested enough, but add videosenders, 2.4GHz keyboard/mouse sets and it's a wonder you get any throughput, especially when these days, a Wifi enabled router may be standard kit even if the user only connects wired.

And the Wifi channel planning (lack of) is pretty stupid...
In the UK, we have 1-13 available, allowing for two 40MHz channel pairs (1+5 & 9+13) or 4 fully spaced 20MHz, but so much kit defaults to USA 1-11 and using 1,6,11

Re: Superhub 2
 

On that spec sheet, it's listed as "2.4Ghz and 5Ghz concurrent" which would imply running both at once.

Re: Superhub 2
 

any have leaked picture of the new super hub 2 trial ?

am banned from the new super hub 2 trial.

am banned for talking about
1) BT Infinity vs Virgin Media
2) end of the world 2012 (signs before end times)
3) NWO, illuminati, freemasons

they only gave me 2 warnings.
1st warning for BT Infinity

2nd warning about 2012 end of the world. some signs. the 2nd time i e-mail on the form why you deleted it? i said its a chatter group i posetd. he said he made a mistake and thought it was in the other group.

3rd they banned me for posting NWO, illuminati, freemasons. without e-mailing me.

i meant to get the super hub 2. but because they banned me. am not getting it now. i think they being BIAS.
when i ring them they say they gave me 6 warning which is a lie. only gave me 2 warning.

this was not in super hub trial group.

this was in Chatter group were i posted it. but still banned.
For all off topic conversations, from what was on the TV last night to the meaning of life.

i thought wile we wait for the new superhub 2 talk about something else wiles then.
sorry for the spelling mistakes.

Re: Superhub 2
 

wtf are you talking about. from what i see youve been banned from the trial due to a lack of trust and judging by the above im not surprised. have you got pictures of the SH2 or Hub4 ? dont post them. im just asking if you have images.

Anybody on the trial shouldn't be discussing anything

Re: Superhub 2
 

thanks mate for your reply. they banned me first then thats what they get...:D

Re: Superhub 2
 

dont be a nutcase troll.

Re: Superhub 2
 

thankz @thenry for your nice words. God bless you.
wise words from a wise person.

Re: Superhub 2
 

Please everyone stick to the topic and lay off the personal comments.

Re: Superhub 2
 

Until March 25th

Re: Superhub 2
 

nope.

Re: Superhub 2
 

@qasdfdsaq. just ignore thenry.

Nobody on the trial should be confirming or denying anything. When trailists are allowed to talk then I'm sure stuff will start coming out but until then everything should only be speculation and trailists should refrain from involving themselves in superhub 2 conversation / talk

Re: Superhub 2
 

Good point, RB. Of course, if people who are on the trial come here and don't tell the truth - or should I say specifically make an untruth ........

Re: Superhub 2
 

What, you think someone on the internet would just lie? Who would do such a thing?

Re: Superhub 2
 

LOL, Kush. Read the thread and you'll know!

Re: Superhub 2
 

Re: Superhub 2
 

All these images you (TH) put up are somewhat tiresome if not obtuse.

It seems to me that this thread is pretty well exhausted. It's in the public domain that there's a SH2 trial going on. Those on it have to keep commercial/technical confidence.

As for specs, in the public domain we have the VMDG485 wireless specification published by the certification authority which refers to a CGD4000T.

The Netgear site describes a CGD3700T. These three facts are all that is available to participants on this thread.

Re: Superhub 2
 

@Sephiroth i agree with you.
but only people of understanding will understand

Re: Superhub 2