What a hypocrite
 

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...n-foreign-aid.

I’ll keep blowing billions on aid

PM risks war with Tory MPs



Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...#ixzz2GSWFNd8C

What an idiot David Cameron is in today edition, he has clearly stated that he will splash billions of OUR money to foreign aid, no matter how much of this country suffers.

I could not believe it, even the Tory support paper is making big headlines, it always amazes me that fellow members are asking where money is coming from to do this and that, yet he is cutting everything possible, yet he is quite prepared to give foreign countries money to look after the poor.

Some of these countries do not need this as stated in a national paper several months ago, yet we still pump money into it - most of this money falls into country where the money goes straight into the pockets of MPs there.

It never makes sense to me, this country is making cutbacks, hitting the poor, cutting the welfare system, hitting hospitals, hitting the police yet Cameron is gloating in the fact that he will send billions to other countries. The guy is nuts.

re: What a hypocrite
 

:omg::cleader::cleader::cleader::cleader::cleader: :cleader::cleader::cleader::cleader::cleader::clea der::cleader:



you did it -a real link;)

re: What a hypocrite
 

Well i have to say if this is true then he needs a slap to say the VERY least. Charity begins at home and i for one expect my hard earned tax money spent on the people of this country not someone else's country. Sod the rest of them our people come first. :mad:

And Arthur well done on the link, a well deserved thank you is on its way :clap:

re: What a hypocrite
 

I gather Dave still hasn't been forgiven for Leveson..;)

re: What a hypocrite
 

I thank the members of this site for teaching me to do it, it took time, but l got there.

I will be totally honest when l read it, and it was in The Sun, lhad to read it twice, This is why l have a go, and now have found the answer, Mr Cameron is not at all bothered about what cuts Osborne makes, it hurts, and this proud country is allowing this thing to happen.

Yes, you might say that previous governments may have done the same, but surely charity must start at home, IF Cameron in doing this in the hope it will bring business this way, well he is wrong.

One of the countries he gives millions in aid to in China, or Japan, and they are the richest you can get and don't want the aid.

Doesn't make sense

re: What a hypocrite
 

You can hear his words here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today...00/9781008.stm

re: What a hypocrite
 

Yep, apparently the UK has a 'moral obligation' to help world's poor :dozey:
No, the UKs government has a moral and legal obligation to help the people of the UK before thinking of spending money on anyone else......

edit......it seems that Cameron really is way out of touch with voters on this issue: link

Re: What a hypocrite
 

I was going to say, surely those who are struggling in this country, come first?
I mean, what about the pensioners and war vets who can't even afford to heat their homes, or cook food in the winter, then DIE in their homes?
Shouldn't that money be going to subsidise their electricity or heating costs?

We pay taxes to look after our own, at the very least, there should be an OPTION to decide where our taxes go, help our own people, or help other countries.

It's crazy.

Re: What a hypocrite
 

Cameroon splashes out with our money just so he can strut his stuff amongst the rest of the world leaders.

He thinks they don't realise that all he presides over is a 3rd rate banana republic.

Still let him make hay while his Sun is still shining because for him I fear the writing is truly on the wall.

Re: What a hypocrite
 

Well the UK has made a handsome profit from exploiting places around the world so we probably do have a moral obligation to help the world's poor...

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I find the information in the media regarding giving aid to foreign countries will not stop despite an outcry from your fellow MPs and the cuts that you are making to the British Voter, and the worst thing possible is the smirk that your leader David Cameron shows is an insult to the British workforce. We are a proud country, but the comments made are an insult to the poor and needy of this country.
We are having to suffer severe cutbacks and lose our jobs, and yet you send billions to overseas countries - total insult to the voter

This is a copy of the email that l have just sent to the Tory Party in London. I am furios with this item. We are having to make serious cutbacks, people are losing there jobs, we have people living in poverty. And yet he will still give billions away to other countries from our hard earned taxmoney that we pay.

I think his motto is, 'l will rob peter to pay paul' He borrows money, yet pays OUR money oversea's.

Re: What a hypocrite
 

Sorry but i think our poor come first.

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I think it's time for an adult public debate to be had by our leaders and for full disclosure of what we get out of aid, our caveats, our usury and whether the money actually does any good, until this discussion is had we'll never know what's actually going on and will be left thinking that we only do it so our leaders can strut about on the global stage, which I don't beleive is the the case, I think we make cash out of it and are to ashamed to admit it.

---------- Post added at 18:50 ---------- Previous post was at 18:49 ----------

We don't have any poor compared to some

Re: What a hypocrite
 

OK i will rephrase that, i feel that the money that is taken in tax from people hard earned wage should be used to support the people of this country who need it. Why should we have to suffer cuts in our public services if we seem to be able to give millions away to other countries.

Re: What a hypocrite
 

I think the only thing that l can think about is the large contract that we won from abroad for fighter jets l believe - but we don't give aid to that conntry - do we?

Within the next couple of weeks, we will have the bitter winter coming up and the poor of this country, the vulnerable will be scared to put there heating on - will David Cameron think about giving them FREE warmth, l dobt that very much.

Re: What a hypocrite
 

you mean this one ,we lost out to france to supply India with some fighter jets ,so in return we forced India to accept our aid despite them not wanting or needing it

Re: What a hypocrite
 

I think he meant Saudi Arabia, not India...

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Here's an example

http://m.guardian.co.uk/environment/...anddevelopment

I remember reading that for every dollar we give Africa in aid we take four out in export tax, how about we trade on a level playing field and we'll keep the aid cash.

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Wasn't the approach we took when we had the Empire was it? I just don't think we can throw around terms like moral obligation when you look back at our history and some of the more shameful aspects of the Empire. We used other countries resources to enrich us and we still feel the benefits of that whilst other countries arguably suffered the drawbacks.

We can say stuff the rest, it's about us but let's not pretend it's a moral obligation driving us to do it.

---------- Post added at 20:47 ---------- Previous post was at 20:45 ----------

Also TheDaddy makes a good point that it's often politicking and self-interest that drives aid donations anyway and besides it's not like it's a massive part of the budget.

Re: What a hypocrite
 

Does not feed our pensioners or heat there homes. I am sick and tired of hearing how we send millions abroad each year and then we see news stories of pensioners dying because they don't have enough money to eat or to heat there homes.

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Hugh, you are correct. The deal was done recently, David Cameron had a smile on his face when he shook the persons hand.

Trouble is parts of the deal will probably need the help of oversea's countries. As that is where all the top labour comes from - everyone has moved abroad.

Re: What a hypocrite
 

People are dying there too. There are people dying from simply not being able to afford antibiotics or other medications, from a lack of clean water or a infrastructure to support them. These people are not living it up whilst our pensioners suffer. That's not the choice that has been made. It's just an emotional appeal to make it seem like those who support foreign aid are doing so at the expense of the old people dying here.

News stories don't make the whole picture but we do have social safety nets and the examples of people dying from a lack of food(?!) are examples of the system failing not examples of there not being enough money. However, if there isn't a enough money then let's ask for our taxes to be raised because cutting foreign aid isn't going to do enough.

Re: What a hypocrite
 

don't you think there is a principle at stake though .At home there are stringent cuts because we don't have money and yet our government decide to ringfence foriegn aid .Giving the impression that other countries are more important than ours

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Well said, it's not a one or the other choice and these grotty little rags that peddle it as such are just attempting to create an agenda to fill the void left since they stopped reporting news. I wonder why it is the never mention the four million children alive today thanks to aid funded vaccination or all the schools built.

---------- Post added at 21:24 ---------- Previous post was at 21:23 ----------

Yes so important we 'give' them less than 1% & I don't even trust that figure, I think it's less.

Re: What a hypocrite
 

Then we need to have cast iron guarantees of trade to get a return .

and you do realise that the budget is going up don't you ,by 2015 it will be level or above the budget of the police

Re: What a hypocrite
 

No, we dont. We have an obligation to help our own.
Its about time we stopped worrying about other countries and sorted out our own.

Re: What a hypocrite
 

You do realise that politicians are full of bull plop don't you, going up, if it's going anywhere it's going down

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...m-6282998.html

Re: What a hypocrite
 

Exactly ,what appears to have sparked this outburst of morality from Cameron is that other countries are falling behind on their bribes so we have to pick up the slack

Re: What a hypocrite
 

We can do both and we can worry about other countries for reasons that don't include invading and exploiting them (although we still do the latter).

'Our own' doesn't make sense anymore anyway. What happens in one country can harm 'our own' too.

Re: What a hypocrite
 

I agree we can do both, but I think 50% of the aid budget should be used for our own people.
Or better yet, give the 50% that's normally sent to other countries, to those charities who specialise in helping poor countries, at least that way, in theory, less money would be wasted or go to corrupt government/army officials

Re: What a hypocrite
 

That's what the other 99% is for.

Re: What a hypocrite
 

yeah ,you may want have a look at the real figures

http://www.ukan.org.uk/index.php?id=87

it's gone up every year for 5 years while almost every departmental budget in the uk has gone down

Re: What a hypocrite
 

Indeed :clap:

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We spend 99% of the money on 'our own'. What's wrong with 1% for the rest? Morally what's the difference between a pensioner in the UK or a staving child in Africa (see, I can use emotive examples too)? Why is it being presented as either/or when this isn't the case.

And again. We've benefited from exploiting other people and countries both in the past and even now we're happy to overlook exploitation and abuse for cheap products or oil so I really don't think we can go around claiming some sort of moral high ground about helping our own. We would be a lot worse off if these things were really about morals.

Re: What a hypocrite
 

I was always taught that charity begins at home!
Obviously preceding governments and this one would rather give away our hard earned tax £'s let's face it those in power have never had to live on minimum wage and have little if no real idea of money and how it works.

Do/should we feel obliged because of our past for what we took from other countries or should we now say "enough is enough"
IIRC we give 0.5% of GDP to foreign aid, that is about £10-12 billion a year and rising all the time, one wonders what the actual return for this for this type of "investment"

Oh and Arfur, congrats on sussing out linkages :tu: long may you remember :)

Re: What a hypocrite
 

Its 1% too high is what's wrong with it.

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There not the real figures, well they might be but as with everything the devils in the detail, for a start there's no mention of tied aid, it including our contribution to the emergency aid disaster relief fund and the training of police in Afghanistan and Iraq for instance.

---------- Post added at 01:25 ---------- Previous post was at 01:23 ----------

In your opinion, personally I'd like to know how we've come by this 0.7% figure, it seems to have been spouted about for years if not decades now, it seems like a strange figure to have come up with and stuck to.

Re: What a hypocrite
 

Yeah I gathered that but why shouldn't be donate foreign aid? Isn't it fair that those of us lucky to live in a country that has wealth (some at the expense of others) donate some of it to those without? I mean a large degree of the relative wealth we have is a product of luck, it's certainly luck that caused us to be born here rather than in a place where death is everywhere.

Re: What a hypocrite
 

It doesn't make any difference where the money is going the foreign aid figures have and are continuing to rise

Why would the government doctor/embellish /lie about figures so that it makes them look bad to their own party and the electorate

When you consider the amount of money given to people coming into the country from these war torn starving countries and those that aren't, shouldn't that be considered as aid ?.All the asylum seekers claiming benefits and taking housing is that not aid ? and how much would that increase the figures .The true aid figures are far greater than the official figures ,you know how i know that ? because politicians are "full of bull plop" ;)

Re: What a hypocrite
 

In this country, we have tv shows asking for donations for charities - good thing and well applauded.

BUT, David Cameron has a morale right as PM to look after the people of this country who voted for his party to get elected, however since he came into power his government has made severe cutbacks without a thought for the voter.

But this news is an insult to the voter, we have vulnerable people, homeless people and above all we have OAP that are counting there pennies to save money for heating there homes during the bitter winter months ahead.

How many people will die due to this, And yet David Cameron is quite prepared to give billions in overseas aid to countries that simply don't need it. Yes there are countries that have starving people, yes there are vulnerable people that are being hit by the governments of those countries that are corrupt and spend OUR money on there own corrupt business.

Two years ago we sent a convoy over to a foreign country in aid, it got ambushed and it was found that the 'aid supply' had found its way onto the black market, and didn't get to its destination.

We MUST look after our own people before even thinking about overseas. Even if they halved the aid, and put it on the UK voter, at least that would help.

But there again Cameron thinks only of himself.

Re: What a hypocrite
 

That's one way of looking at it but when does that historical obligation end?
When do you suggest that the UK's population & government has finally atoned for past sins?

Re: What a hypocrite
 

In an ideal world nothing. When the amount spent at home is being reduced the thought of spending increasing amounts in other countries, in some cases countries that really don't appear to need it, is an issue.

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And this is where it goes

http://www.guardian.co.uk/global-dev...y-key-datasets

That would have paid for many things in my house that at the moment have to save up to buy.

Re: What a hypocrite
 

Well when we stop continuing to exploit other countries for their oil or cheap labour might be a start. My reason for bringing those up is not that they should be the reasons for our aid but that we cannot pretend that to cut Foreign aid is a moral obligation. The moral obligation would be to stop benefiting from exploiting workforces around the world, from oppressive regimes whose oil helps our economy, and to recognise that we're in a very privileged position to be born where we were. We should also note that part of our wealth and heritage has come from our past conquests of other nations. So when we try to pretend that cutting all help to other countries is moral, well, it's kind of hard to say it with a straight face.

People keeping say we have problems at home and we do, and most of our tax income is indeed spent on these problems. A previous poster mentioned of the horror of seeing news stories of vulnerable people dying of cold or hunger in this country. The reason that is a news story is because it's shocking to us, it isn't a common event, and it means the systems to do actually have to place to help failed. When a child dies in Africa because of easily treatable illnesses, hunger, a lack of water and so on it isn't news. It happens every single day and it happens hundreds of times each day.

We should help them because 1) we can 2) it's a small amount of money that would save thousands of lives 3) because the only difference between us and them is where we were born.

We should also help our own poor. So let's raise taxes and protest the cuts to vital services. People with disabilities are cutting their benefits and other services to help them cut without much concern from everyone else. So let's start there.

---------- Post added at 13:24 ---------- Previous post was at 13:21 ----------

Nothing especially wrong with that list. India is being cut. Some of this aid comes back remember so how much we spend isn't a accurate figure.

Re: What a hypocrite
 

How much good is actually done though .One year we give loads of money to country A ,we save some lives and a couple of years down the line that same country is getting more because they are back to square one .There isn't a year that goes by without some famine or war in countries that have already had millions from us .

Re: What a hypocrite
 

I think being able to eradicate the problems is a much more expensive task but we can help do something. Vaccines and medicines save millions of lives, where clean water is installed would help too.

Re: What a hypocrite
 

I wonder how many of these countries that are being given handout's are also spending some of there money on weapons when it could be used to feed there people. :rolleyes:

Re: What a hypocrite
 

I still think that charity begins at home. I am also disinclined to pay more tax to support the worlds 'poor' since a lot of it goes to countries that either don't actually need it or countries that are poor because of corruption in their government systems.
Whilst one deserving person in the UK suffers because there isn't enough government money for their needs then I am against most (probably not all) foreign aid.

Re: What a hypocrite
 

One major issue for me, of course, is does the money really help? and if so, how much of it?
How much of that money is accounted for and how much of it can be proved that it went to the needy and not some corrupt officials pocket?
I'm all for helping people less fortunate than myself, but every penny needs to be accounted for, if money is going missing and isn't seen again, something needs to be done about it
If 1 million pounds goes to country A, but only 500k is accounted for, then future aid, needs to go through a different route, like, a charity, so the money goes to the needy/poor.

Re: What a hypocrite
 

Asylum seekers aren't allowed to work so what would you have them do, starve? And they'd lie about them because the truths even worse, I seem to remember a certain Andrew Mitchell being very critical of lord cairns for turning the international development fund from poverty relief to a tool of privatisation of poor countries utilities and assets.

Re: What a hypocrite
 

Of course not ,but because they are asylum seekers then by definition the money given must surely be counted as aid .Maybe the government could call the benefits given to asylum seekers aid which would help in attaining the target of 0.7 gross income set by the EU whilst at the same time reducing the benefits bill ;)

see i can think like a politician too :)

Re: What a hypocrite
 

Yeah and if you wait a few weeks then reannounce it as new money, you'll have perfected the 'art'. :D

Re: What a hypocrite
 

normaly i would be against cuting aid and i am not against it because we are getting cuts still ( i am disabled and at the sharp end of the cuts ) but i wont suport any charity from now on that doesnt include in its aims the cutting of birth rate in the majority of these countries we help

birth control must be the main priority

Re: What a hypocrite
 

Remind me again why we bother trying to help these people with our Aid :mad:

http://news.sky.com/story/1032103/se...thern-pakistan

Re: What a hypocrite
 

Aside from giving aid to countries with their own nuclear weapons and space program's another needy bunch are being supported by the government in times of need.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/poli...crackdown.html

Re: What a hypocrite
 

My anger grows each day over this, we find that yesterday they were planning on what other cutbacks can be made to the police services, which we desperately need and yet they will still pump OUR money into overseas aid.

IF they stopped paying aid to say for example THREE countries, just imagine what that money could be put to. its a staggering figure, whilst this country rots, the coalition will pur money in aid to other countries - its a disgrace.

Re: What a hypocrite
 

Yes, that will put them off coming in the first place. Lets face it UK in NEVER the first country that they will have reached since setting out.

Re: What a hypocrite
 

:tu: +1

Why do Asylum seekers travel through all those safe countries to get here, i will tell you why " we are idiots that will give them everything whilst crapping on our own people" that's why

Re: What a hypocrite
 

Harsh but well worth a try :D

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Because this fact is misunderstood. Logically that wouldn't work. In the EU the idea is that they're shared amongst countries so that those on the border do not take all of them and the other member states have none.

This is actually what happens for the most part:

http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/sta...20121012123334

France: 57.355
Germany: 53,225
Italy: 34,114
United Kingdom: 26,430
Sweden: 29,670
Switzerland: 23,625

Re: What a hypocrite
 

I can't say that any one group needs help more than another. If someone needs help we should give it and in many 3rd world countries they need help now.

That said there is too much abuse of "the system" both here and abroad. There does need to be a difference between helping those who need it and those who simply want it because it's easy. (Can't work, get help. Won't work, no help.)

And it's easy to pontificate here on what priorities we would have the government follow but with a limited pot and seemingly infinite need how would you really make the decision? You can help people here but then see starvation in Africa, or violence increase to fight over what food there is. Even within the UK where do you put your resource? Keep pouring money into immediate need or try to find long term solutions? If the latter which will help more people over time (and be cheaper freeing money for other needs), what of the individuals who need help now?

Re: What a hypocrite
 

This is a good post and you are right ,the government are in an impossible position and a lot of the decisions that must be made are not ones that i wold like to make especially when the voters are as fickle as us brits ;)

Re: What a hypocrite
 

I take it those figures don't take into account the ones who get in here illegally and disappear.

Re: What a hypocrite
 

They can't do. I can account for nearly 26,000 of them being around the corner and just up the road :)

Re: What a hypocrite
 

Not a lot in your area then :D

Re: What a hypocrite
 

and that's just the corner shop ,even more in the kebab shop ;)

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Course not - the official figures are nonsense.

Re: What a hypocrite
 

Well it depends. A lot of illegal immigrants are people who abscond if their application fails. It doesn't take into account those who have got here and never had any contact with the authorities but then the same is true of the rest too.

---------- Post added at 22:36 ---------- Previous post was at 22:35 ----------

Why? Are the EU hiding applications for Asylum? Why would they do that? I don't see any reason for the EU to hide that as France and Germany wouldn't be happy with having almost twice as many applications as us!