Very High Latency (Hayes)
 

This can't be right...

Noticed a bit more in the way of lag spikes whilst gaming so set up this monitor.

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2012/12/40.png

Downstream Channels
Lock Status Channel ID Frequency Modulation Rx Power SNR Pre RS Errors Post RS Errors
Locked 54 307000000 Hz QAM256 4.9 dBmV 41.9 dB 64116 0
Locked 49 267000000 Hz QAM256 4.2 dBmV 41.9 dB 160793 26
Locked 50 275000000 Hz QAM256 4.6 dBmV 41.6 dB 244464 32
Locked 51 283000000 Hz QAM256 4.4 dBmV 41.4 dB 161643 22
Locked 52 291000000 Hz QAM256 3.5 dBmV 40.4 dB 191164 23
Locked 53 299000000 Hz QAM256 5.0 dBmV 40.9 dB 181343 0
Unlocked Unknown 0 Hz Unknown 0.0 dBmV 0.0 dB Unknown Unknown
Unlocked Unknown 0 Hz Unknown 0.0 dBmV 0.0 dB Unknown Unknown


Upstream Channels
Lock Status Channel ID Frequency Modulation Tx Power Mode Channel Bandwidth Symbol Rate
Locked 7 45800000 Hz ATDMA 58.0 dBmV 16QAM 6400000 20480 Kbits/sec
Unlocked 0 0 Hz Unknown 0.0 dBmV Unknown Unknown 0 Kbits/sec
Unlocked 0 0 Hz Unknown 0.0 dBmV Unknown Unknown 0 Kbits/sec
Unlocked 0 0 Hz Unknown 0.0 dBmV Unknown Unknown 0 Kbits/sec


Started a couple of weeks ago. Any help would be appreciated.

Edit: Just performed a reset by powering off the modem for 15minutes (hence the red bar at the right had side)

Re: Very High Latency (Hayes)
 

that looks a mess but in my opinion is a fault rather than utilisation related.

Re: Very High Latency (Hayes)
 

Never seen a graph like that before, something seriously wrong.

Can't blame the Croydon network for this one though!

Re: Very High Latency (Hayes)
 

Sigh called up support, Indian support. First guy that took the call couldn't understand what latency means. Still on the phone with them.

Edit : He finally understood it as 'ping' :P Claims it's due to over utilisation. Not buying it so waiting for a supervisor now.

Re: Very High Latency (Hayes)
 

i had this problem. a reboot sorted it. new upstream channel. talking of upstream, your power level for UP is high. you need a tech out to move you at the cab.

Re: Very High Latency (Hayes)
 

Spoke to the supervisor who kept insisting it was an over utilisation issue. He did correctly say from his readings that the problem occurs after 11:30am (and yes it does get worse then), however he was unable to explain the spikes between midnight and 11:30am so opened up a fault request and gave me a number.

He never asked about the Upstream power levels.

A reboot did help but I don't think it's going to last. I'll poke them again soon if it's not resolved and this time mention my UP power levels.

Re: Very High Latency (Hayes)
 

Looking at his graph he rebooted already and the problem went away already...

Re: Very High Latency (Hayes)
 

whys this has been happening recently qas?

Re: Very High Latency (Hayes)
 

the possibilities are there is 'also' high utilisation and thats making them misdiagnose.

also my diagnosis could have been wrong :)

did you take a note if your US channel changed after the reboot? if it didnt then this is either a modem issue (superhub) or a fault which the symptons go away after a recconect.

Re: Very High Latency (Hayes)
 

The issue appears to be better now after the reboot. However I did a reboot a week ago and then a couple of days later same old story with latency shooting up to the 150ms region.

Leaving from work now, when I get home I'll post the Upstream details again as well as graphs from the previous reboot.

Re: Very High Latency (Hayes)
 

You need a tech out to get that upstream power level sorted before you worry about anything else.

151 from a VM phoneline and settle for nothing less than a tech to correct your out of spec power level.

Re: Very High Latency (Hayes)
 

Here are the readings after the reboot yesterday :

Downstream Channels
Lock Status Channel ID Frequency Modulation Rx Power SNR Pre RS Errors Post RS Errors
Locked 54 307000000 Hz QAM256 5.1 dBmV 42.4 dB 9296 0
Locked 49 267000000 Hz QAM256 4.5 dBmV 42.5 dB 8548 0
Locked 50 275000000 Hz QAM256 4.7 dBmV 42.4 dB 8120 12
Locked 51 283000000 Hz QAM256 4.5 dBmV 42.0 dB 11289 0
Locked 52 291000000 Hz QAM256 3.6 dBmV 41.4 dB 19208 0
Locked 53 299000000 Hz QAM256 5.0 dBmV 41.9 dB 11942 0
Unlocked Unknown 0 Hz Unknown 0.0 dBmV 0.0 dB Unknown Unknown
Unlocked Unknown 0 Hz Unknown 0.0 dBmV 0.0 dB Unknown Unknown
Upstream Channels
Lock Status Channel ID Frequency Modulation Tx Power Mode Channel Bandwidth Symbol Rate
Locked 7 45800000 Hz ATDMA 58.0 dBmV 16QAM 6400000 20480 Kbits/sec
Unlocked 0 0 Hz Unknown 0.0 dBmV Unknown Unknown 0 Kbits/sec
Unlocked 0 0 Hz Unknown 0.0 dBmV Unknown Unknown 0 Kbits/sec
Unlocked 0 0 Hz Unknown 0.0 dBmV Unknown Unknown 0 Kbits/sec


I spoke to tech support again. They say it's a fault in the area with a resolution time of one week (should be fixed on the 20th). Even if she was to book a tech to come out it would automatically be cancelled since this was flagged as an area fault.

As you can see on the Live Graph it's starting to get bad again.

Guess I have to wait a week :(

Re: Very High Latency (Hayes)
 

Live graph just shows moderate utilization issues. I've seen far worse (though less so recently).

But as mentioned above, your upstream power is too high, indicating some sort of physical impairment somewhere along your line.

Re: Very High Latency (Hayes)
 

Qasi is absolutely right as was The Installer.

Your SH is maxing out on upstream power and is just about getting through. Actually if it wasn't always getting through, your Network Log would show T3 errors. Does it?

Upstream faults are always tricky to diagnose and fix. It could be in the optical node; it could be a coax section that needs replacing; or a demodulator.

Re: Very High Latency (Hayes)
 

Still no engineer sent out. Just phoned tech support (because they said it would be resolved by 20th Dec) and they said it might be another 30-45 days more before an engineer can be sent out to resolve the high utilisation issue. Until that happens they cannot send any engineer out to look at the high upstream issue because their system prevents an engineer to be booked for a property where there is local fault already being looked at.

Worse still I am not getting 100% packet loss for about 15-20 mins 10-20 times a day. So it's gotten worse.

Any way to escalate this because this takes the ****? Not prepared to wait two months for someone to come resolve an high upstream power issue.

Re: Very High Latency (Hayes)
 

Call retentions

Re: Very High Latency (Hayes)
 

Unplug the shub from the power.

Call faults on 151

Tell them that you have no lights on your shub and that it seemed to make a noise before the lights went out.

Follow their script, but DO NOT connect the power to the shub while on the phone to them.

Get a tech booked for total loss of service.

;)

Re: Very High Latency (Hayes)
 

Looks like I'll have to. I placed an order a few days ago for Plusnet Fibre which will be installed early January so there is a backup plan in the works.

Ideally would have liked to have had both at the same time but if push comes to shove will drop VM.

Haha love it :) Might just have to do this.

Re: Very High Latency (Hayes)
 

Took 5 months of removing fix dates before they told me it would be another 5 months to completely fix, so I left them. With you being close to Croydon I think you have 2 or 3 separate issues there that need resolving and they won't be quick.

Re: Very High Latency (Hayes)
 

Just a follow up. I gave customer services a call again and this time got through to the UK support area. This time the service could not have been more different. They immediately recognised this wasn't a high utilisation issue and sent out an engineer the following day.

The Engineer adjusted the power levels down a bit, replaced a couple of components in the house and told me a car had hit green cabinet which I was connected to.

No packet loss over the last 24 hours. Latency is slightly better but not great.

Re: Very High Latency (Hayes)
 

Glad you eventually got some help from VM, no thanks to the outsourced support as usual.

Lets hope you get better service from Plusnet who claim their support is based in Yorkshire,

Only time will tell, however it is unlikely Plusnet BB and support will be any worse than VM's so everything to gain and nothing to lose. :)

Re: Very High Latency (Hayes)
 

It's a real shame that VM put so many UK support people out of work. I know there are loads of great IT support experts in India but VM are not hiring them it seems. VM need to have a serious look at their service level agreement because they should be able to lay a good number of penalty charges at the door of their current Indian office going by the reports on this forum.

Re: Very High Latency (Hayes)
 

Latency is crap once more. Check out the graph on the first page. Would this now be over utilisation or something else ?

The engineer that came around said under 55dBmV for upstream is fine....

Downstream Channels
Lock Status Channel ID Frequency Modulation Rx Power SNR Pre RS Errors Post RS Errors
Locked 49 267000000 Hz QAM256 13.7 dBmV 43.2 dB 28021 15
Locked 51 283000000 Hz QAM256 13.4 dBmV 42.8 dB 33542 15
Locked 52 291000000 Hz QAM256 12.6 dBmV 42.0 dB 57381 0
Locked 53 299000000 Hz QAM256 14.6 dBmV 43.2 dB 29012 0
Locked 54 307000000 Hz QAM256 14.9 dBmV 43.0 dB 24099 0
Locked 55 315000000 Hz QAM256 14.8 dBmV 42.5 dB 36451 0
Locked 56 323000000 Hz QAM256 13.8 dBmV 41.4 dB 194795 0
Unlocked Unknown 0 Hz Unknown 0.0 dBmV 0.0 dB Unknown Unknown
Upstream Channels
Lock Status Channel ID Frequency Modulation Tx Power Mode Channel Bandwidth Symbol Rate
Locked 7 45800000 Hz ATDMA 54.8 dBmV 16QAM 6400000 20480 Kbits/sec
Unlocked 0 0 Hz Unknown 0.0 dBmV Unknown Unknown 0 Kbits/sec
Unlocked 0 0 Hz Unknown 0.0 dBmV Unknown Unknown 0 Kbits/sec
Unlocked 0 0 Hz Unknown 0.0 dBmV Unknown Unknown 0 Kbits/sec

Re: Very High Latency (Hayes)
 

Irrespective of the possibility of congestion, we have to resolve the power levels.

On the UPSTREAM, it shouldn't require 55 dBmv to push through to the first active node - especially when your downstream power is so high. So something is very wrong with this imbalance. You should check the upstream again by refreshing it and seing if it tips over 55 dBmv. The SH is incapable of pushing out more than 58 dBmv and 55 dBmv is the increment setp before that. Basically there is no upstream headroom.

The DOWNSTREAM at c. 14 dBmv is too high IMO. My SH craps out at > 7dBmv as do many others.

So your power levels need to be bright under control. There is no tap point scenario at the street cabinet that would provide this power mismatch. The upstream issue could be anywhere; at the cabinet amplifier; at the optical node. If it's at either of those locations, then others in your street will have similar problems.

Once the upstream is fixed, that cause of high latency will have been removed and we can consider the question of congestion at your local node in Hayes.

HTH.

Re: Very High Latency (Hayes)
 

Thanks. Will give them a call in the day tomorrow so I get through to the UK again.

The thing I figure with over utilisation is that the latency should cycle over the course of a day. This isn't. Let's hope the power levels sort things out.

Re: Very High Latency (Hayes)
 

Spoke to someone at UK Tech support. He said my upstream was fine, downstream was high and he would check for faults in the area. He then immediately started to quote the 'High Utilization' issue....

I kept insisting it's not because of that because :

a) The latency never improves at any point throughout the day.
b) If I reset my superhub the latency returns to normal for about half a day.

So I pinged bbc.co.uk for two minutes and told him the average which was around 86ms at 2pm. Then reset the superhub another 2 minute test and it's down to 21ms. He couldn't explain it... so put me on hold whilst he discussed it with his colleague and came back with "I am afraid it's a high utilisation issue, I've just checked with my colleagues."

WTF... makes me want to rage. I just did a test there and then with him on the phone and he still refused to believe anything different. Spent the next 10 minutes asking him why my latency drops after resetting my modem if it was an area wide high utiliasation issue. Of course he couldn't answer. In the end he agreed to send me another superhub.

The area fault for high utilisation has an estimated fix date of 6th Feb -_- . Let's hope the superhub replacement does the trick. Oh and he refused to do anything about the downstream powerlevels until the area fault was fixed.

Just ordered my Makitrok Router for load balancing and failover. Can't wait for Plusnet.

Re: Very High Latency (Hayes)
 

make a thread posting everything here > http://community.virginmedia.com/t5/...nt/bd-p/100_mb

Re: Very High Latency (Hayes)
 

Will do. You can see my latency graph now on the first page of this thread. After resetting the router everything is back to normal.

Re: Very High Latency (Hayes)
 

could you post your connection stats for downstream and upstream again

Re: Very High Latency (Hayes)
 

Downstream Channels
Lock Status Channel ID Frequency Modulation Rx Power SNR Pre RS Errors Post RS Errors
Locked 49 267000000 Hz QAM256 14.2 dBmV 43.2 dB 533 0
Locked 51 283000000 Hz QAM256 13.9 dBmV 43.2 dB 484 0
Locked 52 291000000 Hz QAM256 13.1 dBmV 42.0 dB 575 0
Locked 53 299000000 Hz QAM256 15.0 dBmV 42.9 dB 597 0
Locked 54 307000000 Hz QAM256 15.4 dBmV 43.2 dB 625 2
Locked 55 315000000 Hz QAM256 15.3 dBmV 43.2 dB 632 0
Locked 56 323000000 Hz QAM256 14.2 dBmV 42.1 dB 675 0
Unlocked Unknown 0 Hz Unknown 0.0 dBmV 0.0 dB Unknown Unknown
Upstream Channels
Lock Status Channel ID Frequency Modulation Tx Power Mode Channel Bandwidth Symbol Rate
Locked 7 45800000 Hz ATDMA 54.5 dBmV 16QAM 6400000 20480 Kbits/sec
Unlocked 0 0 Hz Unknown 0.0 dBmV Unknown Unknown 0 Kbits/sec
Unlocked 0 0 Hz Unknown 0.0 dBmV Unknown Unknown 0 Kbits/sec
Unlocked 0 0 Hz Unknown 0.0 dBmV Unknown Unknown 0 Kbits/sec

Re: Very High Latency (Hayes)
 

high utilization shouldn't stop techs being booked. not when the fix is soo far away. the forum team should get a tech booked for you. ask the tech when he comes to be moved at the cabinet to lower your upstream and then adjust downstream. a new SH wont do much, the network fault/glitch is happening everywhere (your ping monitor). a reboot sorts the instability issue. power levels being high is something else.

Re: Very High Latency (Hayes)
 

Unfortunately it does.

Re: Very High Latency (Hayes)
 

what part does qas?

Re: Very High Latency (Hayes)
 

Can't book an engineer if there's an area fault of high utilization. They couldn't even book me one for a complete outage because of high utilization I reported the month before...

Re: Very High Latency (Hayes)
 

reps can override it. while i had the heat issue cooking the cab or local a ticket was raised, the forum team still wanted a tech out to lower my power levels a notch. calling 150 = rejected tech requests. forum team = PMs to get a tech booked.

Re: Very High Latency (Hayes)
 

VM seem incapable of accepting there can be more than 1 fault at once, so if a fault is raised and confirmed they usually wait for that to be cleared first.

Re: Very High Latency (Hayes)
 

My uneducated hunch is that it is to do with an amp that you are connected to. Not sure if there is any way to test this though.

VM have probably found it more cost efficient to not send engineers where over utilisation is outstanding. Probably better than sending engineers to so many houses when there is nothing they can do to fix the problem. Doesn't help in cases like this though.

Re: Very High Latency (Hayes)
 

Like I said in #24, if it's a cabinet issue or other common cause, the neighbours will be affected.

That's a reasonable check to make so that the visiting engineer can be handled appropriately.

Re: Very High Latency (Hayes)
 

Worth asking although many wouldn't even think or know they had a problem with 50% packet loss effecting them. A confirmation would be good but if none have noticed any degradation, I wouldn't accept that as factual.

Re: Very High Latency (Hayes)
 

Fair point.

Re: Very High Latency (Hayes)
 

Trust me, most people would.

Re: Very High Latency (Hayes)
 

What are you basing that on?

So often I have seen friends or family go to show me something at their house on the net only for it to be slow or they have to click a link many times before anything happens. Sometimes they say their internet has been slow for months, sometimes they say their pc is slow, not knowing the difference. Others just think the net is supposed to run at that speed. Usually when I look closer its down to their broadband having issues.

Re: Very High Latency (Hayes)
 

Thats a big problem, those not having the knowledge its easy to just the blame the PC.

Re: Very High Latency (Hayes)
 

Got an engineer coming out now on Wednesday. Not letting him leave until the power levels are perfect.

Re: Very High Latency (Hayes)
 

You said it very well, the isp's get off lightly because of this.

Re: Very High Latency (Hayes)
 

.. and then they claim that the majority of their customers are satisfied. Which then leads them to say that the wretched SuperHub is fine for all those happy customers stuck using wireless in one room!

Re: Very High Latency (Hayes)
 

Exactly that.

1-2% packet loss will cause the above behaviour. 50% will make the connection literally unusable.

I'm pretty sure people with a completely unusable internet connection would notice they have a problem.

Re: Very High Latency (Hayes)
 

As I have said, I have seen people with severe packet loss, only half of web pages actually loading and yet they still think their pc is at fault. We can be pedantic over percentages but I still wouldn't take a neighbours answer as completely reliable unless it was confirming they have also had issues.

Re: Very High Latency (Hayes)
 

Half or none? When nothing loads, ever, for weeks, that's slightly different from people thinking it's slow or flakey. The average joe cares more about the reliability of their internet connection than anything else, "as long as it works". They'd notice if it doesn't.

Re: Very High Latency (Hayes)
 

Qtx is trying to tell you even tho they may have to be retrying to get images to load they still think the internet is working.

Re: Very High Latency (Hayes)
 

One problem is that the ISP's are not responsible for the total end to end connection (or not usually) so the problem could be outside the ISP control.

And if there is an area fault that will need to be cleared before a more local issue can be sorted. (Or in many cases anyway.) It is annoying when you have an issue and get told it's an area fault so you need to wait until that's resolved. On the other hand an area fault is likely to be a higher priority than an individual user, it's just individual users don't see the results as clearly.

Re: Very High Latency (Hayes)
 

A very sound response from tweetiepooh.

Re: Very High Latency (Hayes)
 

Engineer visited today again. Unfortunately I wasn't there since the wife went into labour so busy at the hospital.

There was someone around to let him in though and I gave him access to the PC so he could access the superhub admin page and see the power levels.

Just got home and the in-laws passed on the message "There was nothing wrong with the line"

Downstream Channels
Lock Status Channel ID Frequency Modulation Rx Power SNR Pre RS Errors Post RS Errors
Locked 49 267000000 Hz QAM256 14.2 dBmV 43.2 dB 37315 195
Locked 51 283000000 Hz QAM256 13.9 dBmV 43.1 dB 40075 27
Locked 52 291000000 Hz QAM256 13.1 dBmV 42.5 dB 54176 330
Locked 53 299000000 Hz QAM256 15.2 dBmV 43.1 dB 47469 197
Locked 54 307000000 Hz QAM256 15.4 dBmV 43.2 dB 41241 66
Locked 55 315000000 Hz QAM256 15.5 dBmV 43.2 dB 43323 38
Locked 56 323000000 Hz QAM256 14.4 dBmV 42.4 dB 55275 30
Unlocked Unknown 0 Hz Unknown 0.0 dBmV 0.0 dB Unknown Unknown


Upstream Channels
Lock Status Channel ID Frequency Modulation Tx Power Mode Channel Bandwidth Symbol Rate
Locked 7 45800000 Hz ATDMA 56.0 dBmV 16QAM 6400000 20480 Kbits/sec
Unlocked 0 0 Hz Unknown 0.0 dBmV Unknown Unknown 0 Kbits/sec
Unlocked 0 0 Hz Unknown 0.0 dBmV Unknown Unknown 0 Kbits/sec
Unlocked 0 0 Hz Unknown 0.0 dBmV Unknown Unknown 0 Kbits/sec

Sigh. I've poked someone on the VM forums again. How on earth could he say there was nothing wrong and then do nothing and leave.

Re: Very High Latency (Hayes)
 

And what I'm trying to say is nomatter what they try nothing will work. And they will not think it is working when nothing works.

There's a difference between retrying a few times to load images and nothing ever loading nomatter how many times you try.

Re: Very High Latency (Hayes)
 

useless. you should have left a note asking to be moved at the cabinet to lower your upstream then for downstream to be adjusted accordingly.

Re: Very High Latency (Hayes)
 

Lol :P figured I'd be home. Didn't expect the labour to last over 24 hours... just got home to take a break and then I am back off to the hospital again :P

Re: Very High Latency (Hayes)
 

oh sorry mate i didnt read that bit. congrats :D

Re: Very High Latency (Hayes)
 

Yeah - mucho congrats.

With regard to TH's point about being moved to a higher attenuation tap point.

The thing that's wrong is that your SH is maxing out on the upstream because there's a struggle to reach the CMTS. The internet may well work, but upstream will potentially be sluggish (loading web pages).

The upstream should not be high when the downstream is high. The downstream does indeed need to be brought down and the VM tech will (usually) tell you this. A forward path attenuator (FPA) on your modem can achieve that. By moving you to a lower attenuation tap point the downstream FPA will need very high attenuation (c. 20 dB IMO). That might not fix the problem at all if the upstream impairment is such that the lower attenuation is insufficient to overcome that impairment.

So it is the upstream issue that needs to be identified because the downstream power can be attenuated at the modem.

Re: Very High Latency (Hayes)
 

or splitter

Re: Very High Latency (Hayes)
 

By a forward path adaptor.

Re: Very High Latency (Hayes)
 

You have to remember that some people only use the internet for a few minutes, a few times a week. Ask these users the same question as someone who uses it 10+ hours a day and....I dunno why I am either bothering to argue the obvious :scratch:

Re: Very High Latency (Hayes)
 

A few minutes a day of not working at all will still be noticed. Even by the dumbest users.