Hillsborough Report
 

The Hillsborough report is set to be released today, after a long time coming. Already the Independent seems to have had access to some of the documents which apparently show the police changed statements to make themselves look better.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...e-8126233.html

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

I've always been pro-police and that won't change but I can never shake the strong feeling that they were more responsible for the deaths than we know and those involved should (metaphorically) hang for it.

I'm not saying I think the police were completely responsible but they way it appears they made it all out to be the fans is beyond contempt.

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

I suspect that the Liverpool victims and victims families are going to be disappointed. I think there is nothing that can ever satisfy and assuage their grief.No report,inquiry will ever give them the answers they want.:(

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

You're right, of course Maggy. But I'm sure that won't stop them trying/venting at every opportunity. Perhaps it's now time to let it go.

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More news/leaks coming out. It's looking very, very bad for the police.

https://twitter.com/JimBoardman

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

It must have been very difficult for the families to get closure when there was so clearly a coverup and (mis)information appearing in the press.

Hopefully the whole truth coming out will allow them to move on.

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

Not long now....The Guardian is reporting that the Hillsborough support groups are pleased.

---------- Post added at 12:37 ---------- Previous post was at 11:50 ----------

Here we go:

"Lessons had not been learned from previous problems, failure on every level to protect fans".

"Delay from emergency services, failures all around".

"Authorities sought to blame fans".

"Source of the The Suns' allegations were the police as part of a police effort to blame the fans".

"Police drew blood from victims in order to 'impune their reputation'"

"No evidence the Government took part in a cover-up".

---------- Post added at 12:41 ---------- Previous post was at 12:37 ----------

A new inquest may be made as the new evidence raises questions and wasn't covered in previous inquest.

---------- Post added at 12:46 ---------- Previous post was at 12:41 ----------



---------- Post added at 13:29 ---------- Previous post was at 12:46 ----------

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

As a liverpool fan for over thirty years i am of course happy that finally the truth is out and that the blame is no longer being put on those fans there that day. 164 police statements altered to coverup incompetence by the south yorkshire police 164 is a coverup way beyond what i thought and i always as a fan knew they were lying about the events that day. For many years some people in this country labelled liverpool fans many things because of the lies spread about hillsborough well for every south yorkshire officer involved in covering up the truth let me just say this YOU ARE THE **** not the fans.

Truth is out but justice is not yet done and won't be till people are charged and prosecuted and from what we have been told there are at least 164 cases to investigate. Also hearing a lot of people saying how the sun and kelvin mcscumzie should apologise, well for this one fan and i suspect many others they can shove it so far a damn gifted proctologist couldn't get it back beccause whilst they may have been lied too that will never ever excuse the enthusiasm they took in spreading such despicable lies about the fans that day and no amount of false apologies or false emotion will ever take back the absolute disgusting crap they published.

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

Someone just said on twitter that it's probably too much to ask The Sun to have their headline tomorrow saying 'The REAL Truth'.

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

I am so happy for all of you.

(Thought I'd mention that after my previous comment; just in case someone wanted to try and paint me as a non-supporter (of the cause, I mean) or something :))

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

Will those in the police involved in ordering the changing of statements and the misinformation campaign be investigated for perverting the course of justice?

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

Shamefull cover up seems to have taken place,the problem is for every 100 good things the police do 1 bad thing totally wrecks there reputation,the stephen lawrence case,birmingham six etc now this.No wonder conspiracy theories about princess diana make people think "it cant be true but hang on......".The more things like this go on,the less people trust and respect the establishment .Could an incident like the hillsborough cover up happen today?,i hope not,with everybody having camera phones etc but hang on....

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

If anyone wants to read the report in full and download a copy its here.
http://hillsborough.independent.gov....HIP_report.pdf

Truly shocking reading

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

My thoughts too. Normally I'd say not likely, but given the high profile nature in this case I think it just might happen.

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

It's not like Mackenzie had a choice really...

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

No evidence of any government trying to conceal the truth

i find that hard to believe. They government and Ministers and in particular the PM, would have known.

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

I am no lover of Politicians but I would be interested to hear any evidence you know of to show that the Government at that time were involved in the cover up. I would certainly have liked to have a full independent enquiry before now but that is another matter.

Glad to hear that the families of the 96 will now know the truth and can take a step forward in getting justice for their loved ones.

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

No, but he had a choice of words. Saying that 'the lies' would have been more accurate is quite something after 23 years.

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

Why would the government have known the truth about this i don't know how it works but i assume the government would have asked south yorkshire police to give them a report and probably would have taken that at face value. As we now know the police in this instance were working very hard to coverup their own failings in this incident so i doubt they would give out one story publicly and then tell the government another. Also and i don't know for sure but Derek may clarify on this (sorry Derek your the only police officer i know on this forum nothing personal :)) the government wouldn't go along with such a big police coverup because of how this could affect future convictions by the officers involved seems to me that any case those officers were involved in after this incident could be tarnished by having officers that perverted the course of justice.

I'm not saying for 100% the government didn't know and would welcome anything that shows they did know (not rumour or hearsay something credible) but i just cannot get my head round that big a conspiracy but then i wouldn't have said as many police as did would be involved in something and would have been wrong about that.

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

The most you might be able to say is that governments had a intentional blindness to the issue. Preferring not to delve into the dirt in fear of what they might find.

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

Valid point, unlikely any proof will see light of day.

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

The fact he said it took more that 20 years for him to realise it is also quite something.

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

I think this is part of an effort to shift the blame to the source of those lies, the police and the local MP. I don't think people expected quite as damning a revelation as that which gives him and The Sun the chance to portray themselves as mere unwitting conduit for lies told by the authorities. He'll position this as a nothing more than poor judgement in wording and taking the police for their word. When he says 'The lies', he means other people's lies.

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

McKenzie and the Sun always thrived on sensationalism. For years, he has been able to claim that his headline was the newspaper's consistent approach to scandalous information from reputable sources. IMO he held that line for a lot longer than was decent. Even if today's report had found that everything the Sun reported on that day was true, the manner in which it was reported, and the timing of it, were grossly insensitive given what had just taken place and how many were dead and injured and he should have apologised for that years ago.

Given that the wave of outrage today is rightly concentrated on those within South Yorks Police who orchestrated this smear campaign and cover up, McKenzie has chosen possibly the only time he could reverse his position and tender an apology without becoming the centre of attention as a result of it.

Ultimately, however, everyone except Officialdom knew the truth of matters years before now and McKenzie could have offered a sincere apology without waiting for the results of this inquiry. Trevor Hicks has probably summed it up as well as anyone, quoted in the Mirror* today:

* not that I think the Mirror has anything to crow about. People in glasshouses shouldn't throw stones.

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

So 164 statements were altered to place blame on the Liverpool supporters for causing the deaths of the 96, I hope the are 164 people not getting a good nights sleep tonight as they contemplate a potential prosecution for perverting the course of justice.

Also the were potentially 41 possible survivors of this tragedy but they set a cutoff point of 3.15pm even though the is proof of more being alive well after that time and one of them Kevin Williams died at 4pm in a policewoman's arms.

I as many people disbelieve that the government of the time had no part of the coverup as that simply must be untrue as the South Yorkshire Police would be directly answerable to the Home Secretary of the time who in turn would have the ear of the then primeminister.



============================================

Are you for real have you not read the news, you should post a retraction regards "Letting it go" it is people like you who thought we were wrong to go forwards for justice.

In answer to an old post have you seen the news.
http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/35292024-post43.html




http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...86436164_n.jpg

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

That part has been removed and it was put their in anger and I am sorry for posting it do accept my apologies.


It is up to you guys if you feel the need to leave the comment in your own posts, just been watching the coverage on the BBC News channel.

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

I've likewise removed my earlier post. ;)

This is a very emotional day for a lot of people - I nearly had to stop the car while listening to the World at One today. :(

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

My original post was made on the fact that it's been however-many years and nothing's happened so perhaps it's time to consign it to history.

I will admit that I did not know that this report was due today. So I am very pleased that those people affected have now got some sort of "closure" (as they say).

As this is my very-first post on the subject in any Forum ever, I cannot even begin to see how you could possibly know any of my previous thoughts on this subject. For the record, you are completely and utterly wrong. So would you now care to apologise.

(Not that you have apologised for any of the previous innuendo and lies you have previously posted about me on this forum recently.)

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

I know and fully realise that, my father went the year before and was in the Leppings Lane End and only because he contracted terminal cancer he could have been there in 1989, I sat and watched it unfold live on Grandstand or whatever Saturday afternoon sports programme was on and could not believe my eyes that is one reason I have always felt so strongly about this issue.

So please do not be be offended by anything I posted in anger as maybe now you will understand why.

---------- Post added at 19:51 ---------- Previous post was at 19:49 ----------

Ok Carl but that final comment could have be worded differently as I guess you were unaware of the facts as many people were even after 23 years.

If anyone is interested in reading some articles about the tragedy printed over the years a link can be found HERE

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

I am sorry for your (and anyone else's on this forum) loss from this tragic event.

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I think maybe you can understand the raw emotion in the city at this time so do not feel offended as what more can you expect on such a momentous day as this with all the revelations and facts coming out being angry should not come as a surprise.

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

I was playing football with my brother and some friends down on the seafront and listening to the radio. Someone walked past and asked what the score was, and all we were able to tell them at the time was that the match had been stopped because of some sort of crowd trouble. Of course the story was only pieced together as the hours went by and the enormity of it didn't really come across on the local radio commentary. It only began to sink in for me that evening when I got home, put the TV on and saw the pictures. The next Monday at school the flag was half mast and it seemed everyone knew someone who had been affected. Two boys from my school were injured, thankfully not seriously.

The pain of it is somehow a communal thing for all those of us who are from that part of the world and were immersed in it through acquaintances and through continuing coverage in local media long after the national attention moved elsewhere.

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

First i would like to say how shocked i am at the depth of cover up that has happened and would like to congratulate the families of those who lost their lives for pursuing this to a conclusion over the years .If it wasn't for their tireless pursuit for justice then this would have remained covered up .They have in my opinion done the whole country a service

Secondly, i don't find it surprising that the police found it so easy to cover it up ,to most people football at the time was the purview of drunken hooligans hell bent on violence and destruction so they used that impression to put the idea across that the "hooligan supporters" where to blame and most people believed the police after all they where the police ,everyone trusts a copper.

Which brings me onto my third point ,which is trust .How much will this affect how people trust the police now ,what else has been covered up .I am a firm supporter of the police but cannot help wondering what else has been going on we don't know about

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

I think we sort of knew something like this happened, just surprised by the extent of it. So I choose to believe that we would also have heavy suspicions of other incidents if they were covered up.

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

I too sat and watched it unfold..absolutely terrible images..

However as I don't read The Sun,in fact I wasn't reading any papers at the time so I only got my news from the BBC and radio at the time so my perceptions are at more of a distance after the event.. I missed most of the dodgy reporting as a result.

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

Absolutely. No problem.

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

What appears to have been the most successful tactic by the police was their use of the sun in promoting the idea that it was the supporters to blame .At the time the sun was the biggest selling daily in the country and most people who read it felt that it must be true because it's in the sun

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

i haven't read the sun since early eighties, but as an ex-bookbinder, point of principle. Oblivious to what they printed, but more reason to the name used when I think of that paper..the ****, but that seems a new low even for them

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

Not me.In fact I had learned early that they weren't to be relied on when the DM misquoted a letter I had sent them in some article I hadn't written to them about.Also the local evening newspaper had written a heading on a paedophile article as if the local teachers were paedophiles.After that I gave up on them as being unreliable.

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

Not really ,did the sun know the truth? ,i doubt it .They maybe had doubts about what info they where being fed by the police and where at fault for not being an independent reporter of the news .
If you think about it the sun did themselves a disservice in printing what they believed to be the truth because a bit of real investigative journalism would have uncovered the real truth and made a much better story and sold many more papers

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

I spoke too soon.... http://twitpic.com/atxgf4

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

In relation to the sun they were completely wrong in the approach they took on this incident they were lazy and rather then ask questions investigate a bit they took what they were told and were happy with it as they got their headline with no work. That was bad enough but they continued to back that headline and state they had no reason to reproach themselves for many years to come. The context they reported hillsborough was also highly questionable all in all the sun has no one but itself to blame for the hatred L.F.C fans and people of Liverpool in general have for it.

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

Doubt it will be accepted. It's interesting they went with 'Cops smeared' the fans. This is true of course but my initial reading of those headlines furthers my suspicions that their tactic is going to be that the police fed all this information and they were just naive pawns....

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

It will NEVER be accepted. This along with Mackenzie's apology was damage limitation and just about the only thing they could do.

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

Yep that's my opinion to, they were up to their necks in it and I doubt anyone's foolish enough to think otherwise, chickens have well and truly come home to roost for Rupert over the last few months and it just goes to show if you keep fighting the truth will get out in the end.

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

Charges Likely Over Hillsborough Cover-Up which is the best way forward but will they bring charges against the high ranking officers of today who are still in the force,,,ooops sorry service. Link

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

and so there should be ,i would think that some of the "beat cops" involved have risen through the ranks and are now in positions of power

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/...l-8134410.html


Good point (poor article).

It was a combination of issues around the ground which, individually, didn't seem to amount to much but together created a massive safety risk. Standing areas with little thought for capacity, the design of the gates which led people to the pens in question, the fences, a lack of trained stewards and a general lack of concern for safety.

Sometimes we see trifling safety measures and from time-to-time it will be excessive but the general principle is worthy and often times has been well thought out. Next time a paper or politician pontificates about 'elf and safety' it's worth remembering why such measures are important.

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

By a Newcastle United fan.

http://www.nufc.com/

Article found under: Hillsborough:
There but for the
grace of God, go us....

or http://pastebin.com/YKPz0tD0

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

indeed ,whilst i am no friend of blindingly stupid H&S rules invented by some power crazy jobsworth i appreciate that real H&S rules are of great benefit to everyone and it is a result of incidents like hillsborough that we have these rules

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

Which is why I did have some concerns at the reports that this government is thinking of relaxing H&S rulings..Lets hope they don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.:erm:

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

ah that's just populist nonsense from them. The most they'll do is issue some minor little changes wrapped in a lot of PR talk about ,no nonsense, common sense, changes. It comes down to how people interpret the rules which they have little control over.

It's like all that stuff about getting rid of the Human Rights Act and replacing it with a British Rights Act. All that can be is the same darn rights but reworded to make them sound more popular. Probably changing the right to a family life to explicitly state 'unless you've committed a crime' which is already covered in the European Human Rights act but hasn't been phrased for idiots.

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

They are defined by European law and enabled by the Health and Safety at Work Act 1974.

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

Only rules enforced by the HSE ,local authorities and companies can make up any rubbish under the guise of H&S which is the problem imo .Events like Hillsborough taught us that clearly defined H&S rules and procedures are invaluable but allowing local authorities and companies to muddy the waters with their own rules just confuses the issue

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

They are not rules, they are enabling Acts, Regulations companies and local authorities cannot make up their own rules as that is illegal and would be a criminal act punishable by a hefty fine and possibly jail.

You cannot make up your own health and safety rules regardless of how big a company you may be that is why the law is there to prevent such things from happening.

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

I have worked on many ,many building sites and each and every one has there own H&S rules unique to the main contractor who follows HSE regulations such as hard hats, boots, high viz,etc and then they supplement these with there own ,which are then further supplemented by sub contractor rules .
Example ,nowhere in HSE rules does it say that ladders cannot be used and yet one company i worked with does not allow ladders on site as part of their own h&s rules which any company is perfectly at liberty to do.The good thing though is that the HSE can be contacted if there is a worry that some jumped up jerk compromises H&S by enforcing ill thought out rules such as the no ladder rule and they can overrule ,i personally have been involved in such a case

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

I am talking about the law not petty little rules that companies try to use which in many cases are illegal for which they can be prosecuted.

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

well we where talking about petty little rules that are made by officious idiots .Hillsborough and other disasters are responsible for many of the modern rules that are law now ,Maggie was worried that Camerons latest announcement that he wants to relax H&S rules would erode the advances in H&S we have made since events such as Hillsborough ,but hopefully only the loony idiots who ban conkers , snow balls and tree climbing will get the boot

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

We now have Brussels and European laws to prevent any such relaxation of health and safety law.

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

In many cases, EU directives set out principles in general terms which national Parliaments then have to enact in domestic law. Unfortunately British fair play and pettyfogging officialdom tends to conspire to ensure such directives are interpreted as severely as possible and then enforced to the letter.

It is our bureaucrats' enthusiasm for making up rules and sticking them to the masses that is the problem, and that is where the UK government has room to 'relax' the rules.

Obviously major H&S changes like all-seater stadiums which came out of Hillsborough aren't going to be reversed, but there is definitely room for manoeuvre on issues such as which ladder you have been trained to use and whether you're allowed to ascend more than three steps without a harness.

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

Quite right ,and don't forget the caveat in all health and safety legislation ‘so far as is reasonably practicable’.

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

As before all such laws and regulations are enabled by the Health and Safety at Work Act 1974 even the European six pack regulations.

But more importantly this is now so way off topic that we in danger of hitting an iceberg.

What we want now is for Bettison to resign and be prosecuted for his lies.

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

I think you need to lose that ,it does nothing for your cause .There where many supporters of liverpools belief in a cover up throughout the country

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

I agree. That's quite a passive-aggressive image. It's creates and feeds into a sense of division between Liverpool and the rest of the UK, a sense of Liverpool standing alone. I get why Liverpool have that feeling but you need to understand, especially as time went on, the amount of support you had across the country. You don't want to feed that sense of isolation and victimhood that that image represents.

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

I think the image is okay. For a while (perhaps a couple of days). Then move on to something a bit more positive.

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

How many people believed the coverup version of events even right up to the release of the evidence proving otherwise and all the apologies of yesterday with regards to that attitude that stuck for over 23 years it is quite apt and in many ways truthful, in fact some people will still continue to disregard yesterdays news and still believe the incorrect version of events that unfolded on that day.

The post above is in many ways accurate and reflects the way many on Merseyside felt about how people viewed the events at Hillsborough and now we feel vilified.

I have stuck to my guns over the years even when people had tried to say otherwise about those events and that is because most of those people were never affected by those events, many people on Merseyside either knew a victim or a survivor and have heard their stories and recollections of that fateful day and those memories stay with you even years later.

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

it wouldn't have been much of a cover up if nobody believed it and as i said earlier in the thread ,given the reputation for violence and drunken disorder that football fans including liverpool fans had at that time it wasn't hard to get the general public to believe it .Those not involved in football, and strange as it may seem to you that would be most of the country had no choice given the available information but to believe the police .

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

Again I have to say that you did have support of people outside Liverpool. Especially in the football world.

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

Peter i am not a scouser m8 and my defence of the fans that day and condemnation of the police never wilted in 23 years. Whilst without a doubt the most pain from hillsborough was felt in merseyside it certainly wasn't exclusive to merseyside.

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

Im afraid Ive removed that image. It in no way reflects what a large part of the rest of the country feels or felt, and quite honestly is somewhat insulting to the rest of us.

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

Great article, I never knew that 14 police officers received 1.2 million compo after their insurers accepted top level negligence.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/footba...-reade-1318730

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

At least we still have the Bettison link as that man needs to be removed form his position and prosecuted especially considering the job he now has as chief constable of West Yorkshire, that is an insult.

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

I still cant believe 160 police officers altered notebooks and not 1 has admitted it and said why?

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

I can. Nobody is going to stick their head above the parapet in this. It may be done collectively and when it comes to court all will be revealed then. But no single officer will be brave enough to do that.

An interesting point was raised on Radio 2 about this. Whereas no-one would or could justify the police's attitude in this, one idea was suggested. Apparently some felt that had it all not been covered up and the truth was brought out immediately, the public would instantly lose confidence in the police and anarchy would have ensued.

I stress I don't agree with them covering it up or that particular view but I can at least see where they were coming from, if true.

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

There is a story of one in this weeks "mail on sunday" who said they tried to force him to alter to alter his evidence,but they done it anyway its worth reading.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-failings.html


Is tampering with evidence not an offence punishable by prosecution.?

Must be one of the few cases where the Police Fedaration (trade union) and bosses were on the same side.

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

There are two thoughts on this. One where our British Police are wonderful and honest, then there is the truth. As Russ said no officer is going to stick his/her head above the parapet they will support what their sergeant tells them and the sergeant will do what his/her inspector tells him/her and so it goes on.

Look at the cases where people have been in Prison and let off due other evidence found proving the Police officer was making up a pack of lies to fit the crime. The officers concerned in most cases go on long term sick and then retire from the Force/Service and are not prosecuted.

This must not happen with the officers who lied and made false statements. Some of these officers would have retired and some would have risen in the ranks. All of them should be arrested and put before the Magistrate.

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

Slow down a bit ,It is not right that officers either gave false evidence or embellished reports to give a false impression and should be dealt with ,but there is a big difference between giving false evidence to get someone locked up and what happened at Hillsborough.One thing that the attorney general will have to decide is what crime if any has been committed and i daresay that will involve trawling through the statements and reports to see what was reported and what actually happened and as far as i know changing reports is not a crime ,perhaps Derek can clarify that

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

Sorry got above myself but Police officers must be trusted when they enter information in their notebook it must be the truth. I think you will find Perverting the course of justice is a criminal offence in which someone prevents justice from being served on himself or on another party. It is a common law offence carrying a maximum sentence of life imprisonment.

All of those who were called would have lied on Oath...Grrrrrrrr and double Grrrrrrrrrrr

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

I think that is a gross over-simplification (ie too black-and-white) and I don't think you should be painting the entire police service as corrupt over this one incident.

---------- Post added at 12:38 ---------- Previous post was at 12:35 ----------

That said...

... I agree with this.

(Just in case anyone was going to accuse me of not caring or having rose-tinted glasses; neither of which are true.)

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

I think you will have to remind me what charges where bought at the time and how they where perverted .What crime was committed that was prevented from being tried by this evidence ,possibly corporate manslaughter but i doubt that would ever had happened simply because it was normal within the football league to have stadiums built in such a fashion ,blaming supporters for the deaths however morally wrong is not a crime .It may well be that charges will be bought relating to evidence given at the inquest ,i don't know ,but it must be considered that the whole affair was a tragic accident compounded by inadequacies by the police and other emergency services ,not a crime

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

There is no other word, most people would call it corrupt the Police call it filling the book, this may corroborate another officers version of events which then in most cases is accepted as fact by a judge or magistrate. My belief is all police forces do this and it has to stop.

The truth is the truth. Look at the shooting on a tube train, the notebooks all told the same story but it was not the truth, this was totaly wrong. Again a High ranking officer made a mistake and a person died.

---------- Post added at 13:22 ---------- Previous post was at 13:19 ----------

If a person or Police officer lies on oath he/she is Perverting the course of justice. It would appear that an inspector did make a mistake, humans make mistakes. The problem is a lot of people died and then the police and other emergency services lied to cover the mistake. We must move forward but not allow Police officers to fill the book with untruths. This is not a hate thing, I would like to live in a better world......Yes I know I'm dreaming

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

These incidents make the news precisely because they are so extraordinary. They are not "everyday" cases so I stand by my original point.

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

has there been a trial for them to lie under oath ?

---------- Post added at 13:39 ---------- Previous post was at 13:35 ----------

I refuse to accept that the majority of our police are crooked or lacking in basic morals

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

I hope you never find out what I am saying is right and your belief is wrong. :)

---------- Post added at 14:03 ---------- Previous post was at 13:52 ----------

When officers attended the inquest they would have lied on oath.

Also And again when

Officers called would have again lied on oath..

There is much much more......... :)

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

I am happy in my belief that not all Police are corrupt, thank you very much :rolleyes:

Luckily I'm not the only one :)

Exactly, marty.

Personally (and luckily), I think yours (Viell) is the minority opinion.

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

typo its Vieil your rose clouded glasses are clouding your typing, me I just can't spell :)

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

Apart from all the officers involved in the Hillsborough coverup, everyone of the officers involved should lose their job if still employed by any police force and lose their police pension, pay back any damages they received and be prosecuted for perverting the course of justice which would be quite apt to say the least.

Now that is enough to be getting on with as everyone of those officers involved are not fit to classed as responsible and fit human beings and I would not care if they lost the roofs over their heads as innocent people lost their lives on that day through their inability to act as the professionals they were supposed to be.

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

Not the Hillsborough Case but another case of filling the book. All the notebooks backed the officer concerned that he was acting lawfully.

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

Which is what i said earlier

Don't get me wrong ,i am all in favour of prosecuting those police and officials that may have committed a crime by altering evidence and reports but the current feeling for the need for justice must be tempered with some common sense ,it wasn't the police who caused the disaster ,that was a combination of factors ranging from poor crowd control to the design of the stadium and all must be considered ,We must refrain from simply saying "it was all the fault of the police" because it most certainly was not

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

Perhaps it might be pertinent to pause for a moment and consider that if the police can keep the truth at bay for 23 yrs in such a high profile case involving the deaths of 96 people, then doing likewise in countless "everyday" cases which attract far less publicity, perhaps would be a walk in the park by comparison.

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

As mentioned before ascertaining if that happened has still to done,
yes written statements where changed but that is not a crime in itself ,if there was a conspiracy to change the statements in order to influence a verdict by the coroner/jury then i'm sure that is a crime ,don't get confused with 'moral crimes' and 'civil crimes'

---------- Post added at 15:11 ---------- Previous post was at 15:09 ----------

some would say that they didn't keep the truth at bay given that most people involved new there was something wrong

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

Sorry. :o:

:p:

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

Agree with you there, as I'm one of them. However, had plod been successful in keeping the truth under wraps, I'm sure that would've been the last we ever would've heard of it. Given the state of affairs however, sooner or later they would've had to have confessed the truth.

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

Which is why we don't (and never should) let the victims decide the punishment :)

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

Absolutely. In this case most of us can't begin to understand what the families of the victims have been through however for justice to be seen to be done it is paramount that the courts decide the punishment.

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

Well yes and no. The deths were a TRAGIC accident and an Inspector made a bad call which was partly to blame for the deaths. This was a mistake on his part, for that there would have been a hearing he would have had his knuckles rapped and lost the chance of promotion or he would have gone on sick leave, I don't know how it would have ended. Its all very sad but the problem is with the police (filling the book) covering up the truth with lies and changing some officers statements.

For this the book should be thrown at them even if they have retired.

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

I and most of Liverpool do not care what happens these illegitimate policemen, as long as something does happen as they changed statements so that is attempting to pervert the course of justice and they should lose everything, jobs, pensions, houses.

I honestly do not care how it would affect their families because altering their statements and not helping potentially 41 people to possibly survive makes them all responsible, how do you think their victims families feel knowing what those people did.

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

not necessarily.

You may also consider directing some of the hatred you have at ,the FA ,Liverpool fc and Sheffield utd all where more culpable in my opinion for allowing the game to take place there knowing that there where problems with the ground which led to the problems in the first place

Re: Hillsborough Report
 

The police where there on the day and did not help and then covered it up with lies and mistruths which has now been shown to be fact, why should they not suffer all 164 police liars should be prosecuted for their failure to be a human being.

Click the link below to a Facebook page nothing offensive just wants likes.

Bet i can find 1 million people who want justice for the 96



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