WikiLeaks
 

Assange granted Asylum by Ecuador, just one small snag, once he leaves the Ecuador Embassy he will be arrested by British Police so they can honour the extradition to Sweden to face questioning for Sexual Assault claims.

http://news.sky.com/story/973139/wik...lum-by-ecuador

There are suggestions that Assange could leave in a 'Diplomatic Box or vehicle' and would still be protected, but others say the Police may still seize Assange.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

They said he could be seized in the airport as the diplomatic immunity will not protect him as he boards a plane.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

I thought the snag was that the Diplomatic Status of the Embassy can be revoked, so the Police can simply go into the Embassy and arrest him there?

IMO, it would be a travesty if they'd revoke the Diplomatic Status of the Embassy though.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

In our burning desire to repeatedly suck up to the Americans* we are now prepared to ride roughshod over diplomatic protocol.

This would be a new low.


* Sweden is just a stopover.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Definitely because we all know how hard it is for the Americans to extradite people from the UK! :p:

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Yep - UK Government is threatening to do that and if they do then not only would it cause a massive diplomatic row with Ecuador, other nations may feel some unease that the UK can storm it's embassy.

News just in: Sweden has just entered the diplomatic row by Summoning Ecuador's Ambassador and calls Asylum decision 'Unacceptable'.

Cannot help but think there is some serious heavy leaning going on here from across the pond...

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Sweden haven't entered the row, they were already deeply in. They are the ones who want for him for questioning...

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Do you really think Sweden would allow themselves to be pressurised by the US?

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Yes.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

You forgot the smiley.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

No I didn't.:p:

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Exactly.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

No I'm sorry the Swedes aren't as slavishly bound to the US as we are..;)

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Why would the US go via Sweden? We have proven ourselves very willing to send people over to America and yet suddenly it would be easier to use the Swedish as a proxy? So the US applied pressure to Swedish police who then went to court to apply for a extradition request which was approved. Then he hasto go though all the legal processes of this country to get sent to Sweden where the US will then apply formally for a extradition from Sweden?

Why not directly apply to us?

It may be a conspiracy but if it isn't two women have been denied an investigation while the man they have accused is cheered on around the world as a hero....

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

The 2 women most like have been allowed a nice large sum of money though

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

indeed like we already bend backwards.

whether the charges are trumped up or not. Questions must be raised.

why sweden let him leave
why sweden refused ecudors proposals of swedish police interview assange at embassy
why sweden refuse to give assurances no future granted deportion to america.

makes me very suspicious of the whole affair makes me wonder snatch squads already on standby to get him in USA.

crazy thing is why ecudor would think any north american nation would be anything but safe for assange.

I have strange funny feeling also ecador may use him as political pawn for own ways hand him over anyway.

Like USA got big bounty who they will pay handsomely for which country delivers his head. We got 3 way scrap.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Well I'll guess we might never find out if they are telling the truth or not since Mr Assange is evading any questioning or ability to be charged and go to court.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I didn't think he was evading questioning. I thought he just doesn't want to be questioned be questioned in Sweden?

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Anyway we're the ones getting screwed here.

We are obliged to abide by Sweden's extradition request by law. This isn't the Government deciding to help out the axis of Evil (i.e Sweden and America), it's the law. Sweden followed all the proper processes for making the request, we let him avail himself of the legal system here but there were no grounds for halting the request and so we had to extradite him. He runs away and hides in the Ecuadorian embassy but it's still our problem!

So now we have a minor international incident with Ecuador whilst trying to execute our legal obligation to Sweden who, some allege, are a front for the United States. This is the worst game of Piggy in the middle ever.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Perhaps its easier to get a dodgy conviction in Sweden compared to one in the UK? This is all to convenient mind you I am surprised he wasn't disappeared although I guess that would have stunk more than this

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

He said that by my understanding is that if the Swedish police wish to charge him they need to do so in their own jurisdiction, he can't be charged in absentia. Additionally part of the process is an interview/questioning before the charges are made. Sweden can 'question' him here but it serves no purpose because they have no legal authority in Britain.

---------- Post added at 15:54 ---------- Previous post was at 15:52 ----------

Why does he even need a conviction? We're not the ones charging him with anything (other than breaking his bail conditions). You don't need to be convicted to be extradited.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Well technically that's not true. Sweden have requested extradition from Britain. No diplomatic tensions existed. Britain has to honour extradition laws. No row existed.

Britain sent a threatening letter to Ecuador, telling them the UK could remove diplomatic status from Ecuador Embassy and then enter it to retrieve Assange should they choose to do so but that is a last resort.

This has now flared up tensions with Ecuador and a row has now erupted between Britain and Ecuador. As far as I know, Sweden has not made any demands to Ecuador until this afternoon, when it has summoned the Ecuador Ambassador and labelling it's decision to grant Asylum to Assange, unacceptable. Hence my original statement that Sweden now entering the row is correct.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Ok. Either way Sweden would have got involved because it's they he is running from. We're just the mugs in the middle.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Or, radical suggestion here, maybe he is actually guilty and is desperately trying to get off the hook for serious sexual assault charges.

AFAIK the rules allowing revocation of status were put in place after PC Yvonne Fletcher was murdered and the killer fled justice. It's not a new law they have just come up with and I believe it's only been used once before.

Why? It's not a citizen of Ecquador who is hiding out. It's someone trading on the fact the President of Ecquador was slagged off by the US and is willing to let him kip on the couch in their embassy as a GIRUY to the USA.

He was also happy to grab money from supporters to get bail and leave them hanging in the wind when he went running for cover.

Let him sit there as long as he wants and lift him the second he comes out for air. That said it would be terrible if there was a fire alarm there causing the building to be evacuated...

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

As I said previously, the puppet strings are far reaching from across the pond.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

But there isn't any proof of this and it doesn't make sense that they would go via Sweden instead of ourselves. This presumption may be letting someone accused of rape avoid the authorities so you would want something stronger than assumption...

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

If that was remotely true, why were they both 'supporters' of him, and if they are going to make up a story, why not make up a more serious one and straight away.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Because The UK would (seemingly) be the only country in the world that seems willing to not respect the international convention that Embassies are part of the territory of the country in question. In doing so, the UK is sticking two fingers up to the rest of the world, and saying 'We don't care about diplomatic convention'. If we want to invade your embassy we will.

The fact that this case happens to be about Assange is neither here nor there. I'm not a great fan. In fact, I think he's an irresponsible moron. I just think that diplomatic convention is there for a reason, and we should not pick and choose when we do and don't follow it.

I might be wrong, but there's no mention of it ever being used on Wiki, so my guess is that it would be a first.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

The Evidence is right in front of us Damien, since when would we risk a potential diplomatic falling out over one man ?

This one man, who has been accused of Sexual Assault, big wow, he is only at the accused stage, you or I or some Joe Bloggs in the street can be accused of doing something, doesn't mean they are guilty of it. Assange has technically not been charged of the crime.

Sweden cannot storm another Countries Embassy on British soil. But Britain can and has made a strong threat that it can do so. Nothing can happen until someone makes a move, which is why I am guessing someone from across the pond, is leaning on Britain to make the first move and quickly.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Yeah he's not been charged with the crime as he is going all out to avoid extradition so he can be questioned.

As I see it there are two choices

1. He did it and is trying anything to save his skin
2. He didn't do it. The USA made it all up but instead of extraditing him from a country they have good ties with decided instead to frame him for a crime from a third country in the hope he goes there and gets extradited from country three to the US

I know which one my money is on.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

It's a good job Assange is only alleged to be a serial rapist and a traitor.

Had he been fitted up on a really serious offence like some trumped up copyright infringement BS the Yanks might well have "persuaded" us to use our SAS to storm the Ecuadorian Embassy to take him out "dead or alive"

:)

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Good thing that the Diplomatic and Consular Premises Act 1987 has been passed for just the purpose of extraditing alleged rapists, and not for minor incidents. It seems wholly proportional to storm the Embassy of a Sovereign Nation in order to ensure that justice is seen to be done.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

We're legally obliged to arrest him. When he steps on British soil we've have to do it. We can't let it pass. The statement was stupid but it was really only clarifying the law as it stands.

That doesn't matter. Just because you're not charged with a crime doesn't mean your entitled to flee from investigation and any criminal proceedings nor does it mean it's not worth following. How can he be charged or guilty of a crime if he is a fugitive from justice? Sweden cannot charge him until he is caught.

Besides it's not our problem if he is charged with a crime or not. We're simply enacting our legal obligation to arrest him and pack him off to Sweden. He probably has now committed a crime in Britain anyone since he has skipped bail.

There is a good analysis of our 'strong threat' here: http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/po...ssy-be-stormed

Basically we're not storming the embassy but reminding them we can start legal proceedings to revoke their status as an embassy. The justification being that they are misusing their status as an embassy, the author points out that harbouring someone accused of sexual offences probably is gross misuse.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

But it would no longer be deemed an Embassy of a Sovereign nation. It would just be a house.

You seem to be sarcastically implying that you consider rape to be a 'minor incident', or is that definition just reserved for 'darlings' of the left(eg Strauss-Khan, Polanski)?

Should he and others be able to get away with crimes, even ones such as murder, by simply skipping the country?

Why would the US have to manufacture a criminal offence in order to extradite him?

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

No one has explained to me the logic of the US routing this process via Sweden either...

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

And nobody seems have to said where the phrase "storming the Embassy" came from (which seems a helluva leap from revoking the status).

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Once the Diplomatic status has been removed, surely it will be 'Stormed' by UK cops. Like any other address, if someone has a warrant for their arrest, and they are refusing to answer the door, the next step usually involves 'storming' the house surely?

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Storming a normal house to get someone who we're meant to arrest. It won't be storming the embassy nor will it be breaking any international conventions, nor would it be going onto another countries soil. It would be a normal process. However it would take months or years to go though the courts to complete such a process.

As the article I linked to above points out, 'storming the embassy' is far more dramatic than what the UK government said. People to think that government said 'we can go in and get him' when they actually said there is a law that allows them to start proceedings to revoke their embassy in London.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Why use a simple accurate phrase when a nice emotive one ups the ante quite nicely?... :D

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

True, but the process of revoking the diplomatic status would be (as far as I know) unprecedented.

I'm not sure what political leaning has to do with anything. I've already stated that I think that Assange is an irresponsible moron. I have absolutely no time for the man. However, in the greater scheme of things, I think that rape (especially in the loose Swedish definition) is a minor offence that does not justify the steps that the UK govenment is suggesting it's considering.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Strange - when the Police arrested six terror suspects earlier this year, it was 'an early morning raid', they didn't 'storm their houses'....

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Do you *really* think that if the US could extert enough control over us or Sweden to guarantee an extradition against his will, that they couldn't do the same to Ecuador?

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

raid:

storm:

Yep. Nothing in common at all...

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

I don't think rape is a minor offence and what is he accused of doing would still be rape here. Sex without the woman's consent.

However it doesn't matter from the UK's point of view. We're not the ones pressing charges. We're executing our legal obligation to extradite him, it's not out job to decide if such a request is serious enough. He has been afforded due process and we have followed the law.

We can't just let it drop.

---------- Post added at 17:56 ---------- Previous post was at 17:54 ----------

Sorry but revoking a embassy status is different to storming the embassy. For a start we wouldn't be breaking any international conventions as you said earlier.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

But we would be breaking international conventions if we revoked the diplomatic status, and that would be unprecedented. What's more, while rape clearly is a serious crime, we need to weigh up the seriousness of that offence against the unprecedented move of revoking diplomatic status. In that context, I do think that rape is a relatively minor issue. It is not a matter of national safety or something like that, and it's going to look very odd to other nations if the UK is suddenly saying that they will revoke diplomatic status pretty much at will.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

No we would not. It's an established law and we'll be doing it via the courts. It's ultimately our decision who has an embassy in our country. It's not unprecedented to revoke such status either, it's just this use of the law has only been used once. What international convention would we be breaking?


Why do you keep saying unprecedented? There are several times embassies have been kicked out of a country.

Not at will. They are harbouring someone we need to arrest. We will have to go though months or years of process to get them to hand me over or risk being kicked out.

---------- Post added at 18:16 ---------- Previous post was at 18:14 ----------

And still no one has told me the logic of America routing this via Sweden rather than applying directly to us.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

The Vienna convention, if I'm not mistaken.

I suppose they could revoke a person's diplomatic status, or break diplomatic relations altogether. But revoking the diplomatic status of the premises in order to get at someone residing there would be unprecedented.

But the question then becomes how badly we want to arrest that person, and the message it sends out to other countries. It's not going to look good. How do you think the UK would react if another country (say Ecuador), would use similar local laws to arrest someone we'd granted asylum to. I think we'd kick up a mighty storm, and rightly so.

Edit:

Me? Is there something you're not telling us, Damien? ;)

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Which part? All I can find is the part where we're not allowed to go into their embassy. Nothing about us revoking their ability to have an embassy or our ability to revoke it, we just have to allow them safe passage out of the country if we do.

Well how many times has this exact circumstance occurred? We have done it before to get squatters out of an embassy, exact same law too. So that we didn't break the convention.

Which is why we would rather not do it. However we have abided by the law here, he is wanted for charges of sexual assault in Sweden and we're obliged to honor the extradition treaty. So as soon as he steps out we'll arrest him.

We haven't actually started these proceedings because it would take a very long time, it's messy and nobody wants to do it. We're just reminding them that we can.

The Asylum claim is rubbish anyway, being investigated for sexual offensives is not a reason is claim asylum.

---------- Post added at 18:47 ---------- Previous post was at 18:46 ----------

Oh good! Assange is going to issue a statement outside the embassy. Get ready! We'll nab him then!

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Why don't the Ecuadorians, Sweden and the UK simply ask the US if they have any interest in him ,if they reply no then send him off to sweden when he can prove ,as he maintains, his innocence.If they reply yes we want him then tell thhe US they have him after he has been questioned and tried in Sweden .Removing a countries diplomatic status should not be done in this case as we will lose all the trust of the other nations who have embassies in our country .

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Do you have a link for that, as I'm not aware of any cases where this has happened. Also, do you know of any foreign countries have or have used similar laws.

We could refuse on the grounds that the negative consequences would far outstrip the benefit of having Assange put on trial.

Yes, but the rape claim is a little dodgy as well. If I recall correctly, he was first cleared and then the case was re-opened. I do think there is more to this than just the rape claim (or actually, I think it's a claim for assault: consensual sex without protection).

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

I find myself terribly worried because I'm tending to agree with Danielf. Must remember to alter my medication... ;)

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Some interesting points regarding this: http://pme200.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/assange.html?m=1


I respect the work that Wikilieaks has done, but I think that Assange is a slimeball, and that if he genuinely believes that he is at risk of extradition to the US to be executed for espionage then IMO he is delusional.


The idea that it would be more likely for him to be extradited to the US from Sweden instead of the UK is absolute nonsense, as is the idea that he would be extradited to the US at all if charged by the US with a capital crime (and he has not been charged by the US, let alone had an extradition request made against him!).

To me, this all appears to be a case of avoiding facing the Swedish allegations, rather than the conspiracy theory rubbish that he is avoiding US persecution and alleged potential execution.

It is easier to extradite to the US from the UK than from Sweden. Why would the US go via Sweden using some bizarre conspiracy involving rape allegations, when it could simply make use of the allegedly rather one-sided extradition treaty that it has with the UK?

[Which, IIRC, was sold on the basis of making it easier to extradite terror suspects... not autistic hackers, bankers, or a man who ran a link site that was perfectly legal under UK law]

Even ignoring the fact that it is easier to extradite to the US from the UK rather than Sweden, if Assange were actually at risk of being executed in the US then it is also a fact that *no European country* would or could extradite him, because of the European Convention on Human Rights.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Well this is us closing the Iranian embassy. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-15966628

This is the case of the only, known, use of the law in question: http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=A...201987&f=false

To be honest it's rare someone would pull such a stunt so you can't expect the law to have been used much. It's only been around for a couple of decades or so.

Is there such a prevision in the EU extradition treaty? We're obliged to arrest him and hand him over, we're not meant to judge the benefit of having him on trial. He isn't going to persecuted and his crime is a crime here so our judges found no reason to halt the request.

Again. The Swedish courts are the ones who decide his guilt or the strength of the case. When we sign these treaties we do so because we believe in the integrity of the countries' justice systems. If they, via their legal system, have issued such a request we have to abide by it.

Also it's not consensual sex without protection. The woman in question alleges she consented on the condition he wear protection, claims he didn't, therefore the consent wasn't granted. There is also a accusation of sex whilst half-asleep and using his body to apply force against her will.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

What I would actually find quite amusing would be for him to somehow escape to Ecuador, only for *them* to then hand him gift-wrapped to the US...

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Nothing strange about it.

Raiding the house or storming it, one of the same thing.

Seen it used before - a google search shows it being used in the following news release:-

"In Friday’s early morning raid, troops stormed a house in the Bedouin desert town of Sheikh Zuweyid"

http://www.japantoday.com/smartphone...-sinai-attacks

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Julian Assange isn't a folk hero. He's a nerd with some sort of personality disorder that causes him to believe he's on a messianic crusade when in fact all he's doing is hindering the lawful business of various Governments - business which, shock, horror - sometimes involves confidentiality.

However, none of that is a reason to haul him out of the Ecuadorian embassy by his short and curlies. The fact that he needs to face serious assault charges in a friendly nation, which is a mature democracy that fully respects the rule of law: that's the reason why we need to give Hugo Chavez the middle finger at the soonest opportunity and then have Assange on the first flight to Arlanda.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Exactly. It is not "simply" an allegation of "consensual sex without protection".

The offences he is alleged to have carried out are also illegal under English law as well as Swedish law, and one of the alleged offences is still classed as rape here just as it is in Sweden.

If you have sex with someone while they are asleep they cannot consent, if they cannot consent then it is rape. It's quite simple. That is what he is accused of allegedly doing.


See here for the actual charges, how they are also offences in the UK, and how it is more than just "sex without a condom":

The decision of the High Court: http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/...2011/2849.html

And a piece from David Allen Green: http://jackofkent.com/2012/06/assang...r-english-law/

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

I agree somewhat with your post but how will forceably removing him under a law designed so murderers can't escape justice affect other nations with embassies on UK soil

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

That's why we don't want to do it and haven't yet started proceedings to do so. I don't we ever will. I think it will be a long, legal, stand-off. We can't go in but he can't leave, however he can't stay there forever....

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

From the "Jack of Kent" link, if anyone can't be bothered to read it:

Alleged Offence Number 4:


The ruling of the Magistrates' Court:


The ruling of the High Court:



---------- Post added at 19:56 ---------- Previous post was at 19:45 ----------

A legal blogger on the asylum claim: http://ffgqc.wordpress.com/2012/06/2...asylum-seeker/



David Allen Green on the "threat of storming":

New Statesman: Will the Ecuadorian embassy be stormed?

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Wikileaks have announced on Twitter, that Julian Assange is to deliver a Statement in front of the Ecuador Embassy on Sunday at 2pm.

Um, how can he do this surely once he steps out he will be 'Cuffed' and sent on his merry way to Sweden? :erm:

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Indeed. Political asylum is supposed to be for fear of persecution, not fear of prosecution...

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

You would think so, indeed the people on the news/twitter/live blogs are saying that they may try and do so. I suspect if police get to near he'll not go out or step back in.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

for "in front of the embassy" substitute "at the front door" ;)

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Be afraid. Be very afraid... :D

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Nah, he's not safe, not even at the front door, as Police are allowed in the Lobby, a corridor in the Ecuador Embassy as the building has shared ownership or something, so if he stood at the Front Door, I strongly suspect he will be Arrested.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

We can but hope.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Me too..Sweden is one of the most libertarian countries in the world and more than once has been at odds with the US.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

I have asked this constantly and no one has come up with an answer. Why fabricate a charge to get him sent to Sweden so that you can start the extradition process all over again but this time to go to America? Why not just do it here where we have shown little fight in extradition requests? Makes no sense.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Is that really a valid comparison - police attempting to arrest a rape suspect for extradition, and troops & security forces trying to capture militants who were suspected of involvement in an assault in which gunmen stormed an army checkpoint killing 16 soldiers?

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Stormed vs Raid isn't really a problem is it? As we've established neither are what was proposed in the statement...

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

and on that Hollywood note...

... I feel a major cinematic blockbuster coming on - an international political thriller called "The Ikea Conspiracy". Maybe Matt Damon could star as Assange and there could be several sequels...

:D

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Yes, no - I couldn't give a crap. Stop bloody badgering on about it. :rolleyes:

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

How about assault? :)

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

No, thanks - I've just eaten....

On a more serious note, how about sexual assault, which is one of the charges against Assange?

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Agreed, i cannot stand the bloke personally

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

I'm no fan of him either - I am more concerned about the Diplomatic row being escalated over one man. It just simply isn't worth it.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

What about it? Should we ride roughshod over diplomatic protocol, or sever diplomatic ties with Ecuador altogether in order to extradite one person who is alleged to have committed sexual assault?

---------- Post added at 21:06 ---------- Previous post was at 21:04 ----------

Oh dear. If Osem agreeing with me isn't bad enough, I now find myself agreeing with Mick. Gremlins!!! :)

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Well when he is extradited to Sweden and is then NOT handed over to the US we will see.;)

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

most definitely not ,why the hell should we risk alienating the rest of the diplomatic world because of a matter that is between Assange and Sweden.We should not even contemplate the matter untill he is on British soil and then we can fulfill our legal obligation re the warrant untill then it's not our problem

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

:eek: It's only taken 9 years, 57 days and 2 hours and 14 minutes for you to agree on a single post I have ever made.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Well first of all it's improper to grant Diplomatic Asylum anyway so Ecuador could be said to have rode roughshod over diplomatic protocol. It's also not proper to grant asylum for people on the grounds they face investigation for sexual assault.

However abiding by our own laws is not against diplomatic protocol no matter how many times people assert it to be so. Ecuador will be fully entitled to defend themselves in court if we took that route, which we haven't yet.

Finally if we do ignore Assange then we're breaking our legal obligation to Sweden. We we're in a catch-22 situation. I don't think we should let someone accused off sexual assault go without facing investigation because we're scared of a diplomatic row.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Soz. In my defence, we all have our weak moments, and I haven't had a smoke in 4 days. :D

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

We won't alienate the rest of the diplomatic world, Ecuador's behaviour isn't typical...All might end up doing is damaging relations with Ecuador and frankly who cares.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

I don't think it's right, but I'm not sure if it's improper. Second, it remains to be seen how the local law sits with international law, so there may well be an issue there.

I don't think anyone is saying we should let him go. He can stay where he is, and he will be arrested if he attempts to come out. I just don't think we should risk an international diplomatic row over attempting to smoke out someone who (and whose alleged offences) in the greater scheme of things doesn't matter one bit.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

That would be a issue for Britain and Ecuador to sort out

Even if we did go in and arrest him i think there would be an army of lawyers running to the EU courts contesting the legality of the arrest and tieng it up for years


we would only be breaking our legal obligation if he was on British soil and since he isn't then we have no obligation legal or otherwise .

Of course we are forgetting that this all comes under the responsibility of william hague i believe so anything could happen ;)

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

We will if we claim we had no choice as we have an obligation to extradite him, and therefore must use this loophole we have. Any other nation might find itself in a similar position.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

It would be two South American Nations against us then though. We're becoming quite unpopular down there as it is. What with the Falkland Tensions with Argentina :erm:

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Meh. Not ideal but these are the cards we've been played. Ideally we can sort it without problems but we can't allow to just allow someone to escape justice without good reason.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

If that happened, then as he has shown contempt for bail conditions, hopefully he will be locked up on remand for even longer than if he had just given himself up in the first place.:D

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

good point :D

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Ok. We've debunked this suggestion we're going to invade Ecuador's embassy several times now. It's not just happening.

We would have failed for letting him escape in the first place. However he will be on British soil at some point, he can't get from London to a Ecuador without doing so.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

I am still puzzled by this Statement being read out, outside the Embassy on Sunday at 2pm. Will he give himself up or will he take heed off one his close friends who said on Sky News that he could use a loophole by becoming an Ecuadorian Citizen and be granted Diplomatic status and become untouchable this way?

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

No international law issues. We decide who has a embassy here. We expelled Iran already, no problems.

---------- Post added at 21:42 ---------- Previous post was at 21:41 ----------

He have to approve diplomatic status in our country so he can't get out that way.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Severing all diplomatic ties with Ecuador is one thing, but a thing that wouldn't be done lightly, as there's a reason for having diplomatic ties. Telling the Ecuadorians they can have an embassy, but the one they have isn't one any longer, as we need access to the building to arrest someone is a different matter, and one that'll likely see the International Courts in The Hague tied up for a while.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

Why would it? On what grounds? I haven't found anything that says a nation is entitled to an embassy.

Anyway it's very very unlikely it would ever get that far. The UK Government hasn't acted on that law yet and if they ever do then there would be months or years of court action (our courts) to sort it. No one wants that. However we need to keep challenging Ecuador because they've started this issue with us and we want to resolve it. We were just abiding by EU law, giving him his legal rights, and now he skipped bail and somehow has Asylum...

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

I think if the truth be known it will all boil down to who we value the most Sweden,USA (if there is any collaboration) or Ecuador ,and personally i don't think Ecuador have a look in

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

But that isn't the issue. The issue is that when you do have an embassy, then the premises of that embassy are part of the country's territory and therefore inviolable. That is the diplomatic protocol. Britain would be within its rights to kick the Ecuadorian diplomats out of the country and tell them they no longer wish to have diplomatic ties with them (which would create a considerable diplomatic mess), but that isn't what they are suggesting they might do. They are suggesting they can declare that the embassy is no longer an embassy and then go in to nab Assange. That is unheard of in the diplomatic protocol and is likely to raise a few eyebrows around the world, as it means that the UK isn't playing by the diplomatic rules that the rest of the world plays by.

Btw: I had a look at the squatters' case. It seems to me this can't be compared, as this case was never contested by the Cambodians who'd not actually been in the embassy in nearly 12 years. Quite different from an embassy that is in active use.

True. It'll be interesting to see how it pans out. We seem to be digging quite a hole for ourselves.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

We're dealing with what we've been given. We simply can't ignore it. If we risk upsetting Ecuador then so what? This is big boy politics now and they can't pull a stunt like they have done without facing consequences, they can either deal or face the pressure. Ecuador have granted a very unusual request for Asylum and given us a problem. We can't walk away because 'we're digging a hole for ourselves'. We have obeyed by both international and national laws and have done nothing wrong.

It would cause a diplomatic problem, which is why we don't want to do it (have said this many times now), but it's an option open to us. We keep it on the table. Ecuador aren't playing by the same rules anyway. I don't buy this apologist scenario where Ecuador can screw us and we have to take it to avoid upsetting them.

Re: Wiki Leaks Founder Julian Assange granted 'Asylum' in Ecuador
 

That is what was mentioned today on radio 2 ,declaring the building "not an embassy" removing Assange and then declaring the building an embassy again is fraught with problems and basically makes the idea of Embassies being a particular countries soil worthless and if the UK ever did that it would certainly raise a few eye brows ,
imagine if we ever tried that on the US embassy