Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

After more than two years of wrangling BSkyB is set to find out whether its attempt to overturn Ofcom's order to slash the amount it charges rivals to offer its flagship Sky Sports channels has been successful.

For more go to: http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2012...ss+%28Media%29

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

So if they lose the appeal, could this mean that Virgin would be in a better bargaining position to carry Atlantic, plus the other 2 Sports channels in HD?

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

I give up on this story last year - Let just wait and see what happen next...

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

4.30PM today

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

is 4:31PM now, any news?

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Give them chance :LOL:

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

None yet Mr Stokes.

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

They have to wait for any redactions from all parties in the ruling and also if they need any more evidence?

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Expect a delay for another 6 months :banghead:

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

What makes you say that?

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Because that's what the person who wrote the article thinks will happen!

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Again it seems Sky are doing everything in their power to drag this out for as long as possible but then again thats no surprise given their track record on these things.:(:td:

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

The ruling has been published. Have I read it correctly in thinking that Sky have won their appeal or am I just being dumb ? (I must admit I did skim through it quite quickly lol)

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

No I think you're right. But doesn't it just mean the appeal is allowed? Or have they won? And what does that mean regarding VM users of Sky Sports & movies HD?

---------- Post added at 17:14 ---------- Previous post was at 17:14 ----------

http://www.catribunal.org.uk/238/Judgments.html

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Way I read it is that when OFCOM finally make their ruling, SKY are allowed to appeal against it. Which means that VM customers will be screwed over and over again.

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Good news, nice to see Sky loose an appeal.

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Does that mean VM etc now get Sky Sports channels at a cheaper price starting today?

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

The following will happen if the story on Eurosport is true.

1) Maybe just maybe they (BSkyB and Virgin) need to sign an new deal first for the price to be cut.

OR

2) BSkyB will give Virgin Media the rights to carry the rest of the Sky Sports HD Channels.

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

HANG ON I'm confused... I thought Sky WON their appeal not LOST???? HELP!!!

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Wait for official lines to come out before speculating ;)

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Also looks like Virgin will be getting money back just in case Sky won the appeal, they have still been paying full price and difference was kept aside untill the outcome of the appeal.

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Thats the option i see happening

Nice to see Sky get a kicking for once :)

I bet TELLY will be fuming :LOL:

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Yes l have to agree with you for once.

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

I dont see that option happening. If it does ill eat my hat, hair and toes in an Omlette :)

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

That's correct
That would be excellent if true , very few news sources seem to be reporting it yet.

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Its very hard to get any news link about it at the moment.

---------- Post added at 17:40 ---------- Previous post was at 17:39 ----------

Can we come and watch you do that Mr Stokes.:D

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Im sure i can put a video on Youtube :D

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

It is this part of the non-confidential judgement?

We will need to wait for the full and redacted judgement?

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Sky won the appeal, whats more the judgment extract notes about how virgin and others were the ones making things difficult.

Ofcom has attributed responsibility for the failure to reach agreement
largely to Sky’s failure to engage constructively with its counterparties. However
the evidence shows that Sky did, on the whole, engage constructively. On the other
hand its counterparties by no means always did so, and in our view regulatory
gaming on the part of some of Sky’s counterparties played a much more important
role in the commercial negotiations and their progress (or lack of it) than Ofcom has
recognised.

Ahhh glad im believing in better with my TV provider ;) :p:

http://www.catribunal.org.uk/237-654...Media-Inc.html

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Same here :D

---------- Post added at 18:12 ---------- Previous post was at 18:09 ----------

Oh i also guess this means i fone have to eat my hat, hair and toes :D

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

does this not show that Sky lost :confused:

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

MAybe they got ahead of them selfs MB?

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

So why did Eurosport report this then???

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/b...--finance.html

Now we know why Eurosport News did not work. :)

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Well said MB as what has been put online is the non-confidential parts of the trial that have been available throughout the case (as it states). We all need to wait for the full and redacted version of the judgement as I have said before.

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Somewhat surprised that the take up of Sky Sports is so low across the Virgin customer base. Somewhere between 10 and 12%. That can't just be because of price-the difference really isn't that great. I find it slightly surprising that ofcom think Sky's negotiations with several other companies have failed because of the other companies and not the common denominator-common sense tells you thats unlikely-but perhaps the reason why companies like Virgin haven't engaged fully, if that really is the case, is that there's no real incentive for them to do so because there really isn't the clamour for these channels that some would have you believe.

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Here is another take on it? If these do not know what they are on about god help us all?

http://www.nasdaq.com/article/bskyb-...20120808-01092

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

So what makes you think Sky won ?

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Sky won on this link:

http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...ports-channels

Link found by muppetman11.

The latest is Sky 2 Virgin Media 2.:)

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Conflicting outcomes

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...-channels.html


http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-...08-713163.html

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

This is so hilarious :)

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

At the moment l am utterly baffled by all these different links and the interpretations of who has lost or won in all this :confused::confused:.

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

It doesn't take much but I'm lost and haven't got a clue :D

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Then the master has failed and perhaps it is time for you to leave your throne.;):D

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

The lawyers will make a fortune decrypting all of this :LOL:

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

l have just found two quotes from DS and they are as follows.

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Not sure after reading this?

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

We cant have that, he is out master. If he leaves the throne we have no master

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

I don't claim to understand this but are the reports trying to say that OFCOM's concerns about Sky Sports pricing were unfounded but that they do have the right to require Sky to reduce their prices?

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

:shrug:

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Clear as mud..:rolleyes:

However there maybe some light ahead.OFCOM said...

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

I like this part of the article MM?

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

There is more to this than meets the eye and i think there will still be some maneuvering going on behind closed doors

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

The link that said Sky lost was the same story by the same mis in-formed reporter Karolin Schaps, just reposted on lots of different new sites. Read the PDF document which can be found on my link on page 2. To summarise Sky won, Sky are not being unfair in thier pricing, Sky were the ones trying to make progress on a deal while others were making things as arkward as they could.

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

lets hope so

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

I have been following this case since the inception and I same as the reporter that you have quoted I too am confused and will wait for the full and redacted version of the judgement.

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Direct link to the findings

http://www.catribunal.org.uk/files/1...act_080812.pdf

Summary of the grounds of appeal and of the Tribunal’s conclusions

I refer you to pages 7&8, sections 12-16, which state Sky's appeals are not upheld.

You are referring to the ruling regarding Ofcom's Challenged Findings, Page 9 Section 20, not the appeals.

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Doesn't help..I think old age is dulling my IQ.

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Come on Maggy 95 is not old age.:erm::D:D:D:D So that should not dull your IQ

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Good summary in the Guardian

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2012...?newsfeed=true

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

so sky did lose

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Tell me if I'm wrong lol

The regulator believes that Ofcom had, on the whole, ever right to tell SKY that they had to lower the price of Sky Sports to it's competitors but they found the evidence OFCOM gave for those reasons to be incorrect/misleading.

So in conclusion SKY both won and lost!

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

That part is about Skys challenge against ofcoms misinterpretation of power, nothing to do with the headline matter that i pointed out which is Sky won there appeal against having the charge less. End of the day ofcom have something against Sky and are on a mission but lets not forget this is the same ofcom that wasted hundreds of thousands of pounds pursuing late night phone in channels if a little bit of pubic hair was flashed or baby oil was rubbed in an overly suggestive manner. Ofcom are not worth a light my friend, they are well and truly chumming up to VM and are upset that they lost.

Just incase there is any further doubt.

http://corporate.sky.com/media/press..._pay_tv_appeal

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Yes BUT

"However, the tribunal did not find in BSkyB's favour on each of the grounds that it contested.

BSkyB was unable to convince the tribunal that Ofcom misinterpreted its powers when it ordered the pay-TV company to reduce its wholesale prices for the two sports channels."

So if Sky lose the part where it suggests OFCOM had no right to force it to lower the price of Sky Sports then they still have to lower the price, no?

This ruleing doesn't mean that SKY can begin to ask for ridiculous prices for its premium channels again!

As far as I can make out what we have now after the ruling is the same as what we had beore it.

Sky must offer it's premium chanels at a decent price.

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

You have posted the link to what I have previous? But this is good of them?

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Fuming about what? I won't suffer a financial loss or have a financial gain no matter what the out come of this will be. The only effect this "ruling" will have on me is I may pay £1 or £2 more or less for Skysports per month in the months a head.

Although having taken my kids to Splash Landings at Alton towers today and spent nigh on £300 for the day when I reflect tomorrow although I won't be fuming I may be slightly annoyed.

You do need to get over your obsession with me though, its slightly creepy as everytime I log on lately I have a flashing notification that originates from you. Or 8 out of every 10 of your comments either quotes me or mentions me.

Incase you hadn't noticed I've tried ignoring you, but you're very persistant I can only imagine its an age thing, I do hope when I'm your age I have better things to do with my time, I suspect I will be retired abroad though, Not arguing over a paytv provider.

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

That is correct.

Basically Sky won. But not for the reasons they contested. Ofcom was wrong to begin with. Sky had no justification to fight the appeal on the grounds they did. But too many people jumped on the bandwagon and thought Sky had lost, while ignoring the bigger picture and the fact that Sky had nothing to answer in the first place.

It seems a bit silly to me that Sky can be judged to be wrong when they had nothing to answer in the first place!

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

So what does it mean for VM?

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

It could be a Franz Kafka tale..a summation that makes no sense whatever.

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

It means nothing for VM by the looks of it. VM were at fault for poor negotiation/engagement in this case.

Off course the regulator still has a hump so will no doubt come back. But until then all VM got from this is more showboating by Sky.

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

I think basically Sky lost. The court said Ofcom was wrong to begin with but that Ofcom still have the right to tell Sky to reduce their prices.

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Its one of the strangest rulings i have seen in a long time.

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Yep, OFCOM needs to justify its existence, it seems it has chosen Sky as its target to show it has teeth. So it doesn't mean much for anyone.

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

I am sure we will find out in the next few days once the full ruling is deciphered by the various lawyers on all sides.

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...-channels.html

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Directly from the findings:

In point 16 it says that Sky was wrong for questioning Ofcom's authority.
Furthet in point 19 Sky is proven wrong again on its basis of contention.

But then if you read point 28, the conclusion was basically that Ofcom had no clue as to what actually happened.

Point 30 then states that they found no evidence that Sky is against the wholesale of its channels.

Point 32 is the killer blow. It says that the assertion that Sky is against the supply to cable is unfounded.

This is damning evidence for VM. The evidence shows that VM are lacking in bringing services to its platform.

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Don't like the sound of this bit

"The ruling from CAT could see rivals’ customers be priced out of access to prime sports coverage unless they move to BSkyB, critics suggested."

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

No it doesn't. It's OFCOM's view that they are saying is wrong.

In the Judgement the CAT say:

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

And what services dear Lex in your mind are lacking as this just sounds just like another anti-Virgin post in my mind.

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Will Virgin be making some kind of announcement about this to their customers?

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

The process hasn't completed yet. Sky have won the right to appeal OFCOM's judgement - the appeal itself hasn't happened yet

So until there is actual outcome one way or the other, there isn't anything to communicate to customers

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Paragraph 29 clearly states that abondment was not Sky's fault.

Sorry Den but your anti Sky assertion is wrong in this case. Looking at negotiations, the conclusion is that it was not Sky that is the reason that these services are not there on counter party platforms.

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

I just thought Virgin would release something to clear up their stance on the matter. The story is being covered by most news websites, and paints a very confusing picture. SKY have a statement on their site, and the fact this thread has almost 2000 views in 7 hours suggests Virgin customers want as much clarity as possible, ideally directly from our service provider.

Is that too much to ask? As a customer I'd like my provider to tell me something, even if it's just some kind of holding statement.

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Eh?

The appeal is in regards to OFCOM's ruling about the price reduction.

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

The clear reason that some channels are not on Virgin are one Sky's clear intent to withhold certains channels and their variants and two is their clear policy of asking ridiculous carriage fees for some of their channels as well.

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

From the Telegraph article:

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Look, Sky is the best UK pay tv provider.

Let the large players,BT talktalk build their content, and the small players Smallworld and Virginmedia cry to OFCOM because they are buried in debt and will never come to anything. Problem solved ;)

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

And paragraph 29 clearly discredits Ofcoms assertion on which its whole case is based.

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

All we need now is for all Virgin customers to visit the Telelgraph website;)

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Its laughable that anyone can think Sky have won this. The judgment that they aren't against the wholesaling of their channels at competitive prices might give them the opportunity to say "we told you so", but it also means that their channels have to remain available at competitive prices or it'll give their competitors the opportunity to say it back. In reality little will change here-there will continue to be little difference in sports package pricing across the various platforms, the majority of customers wanting to watch sport will continue to do so on Sky's platform and only a minority of Virgin customers will subscribe. Basically a case of "move along, nothing to see here".

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Just like there are clear reasons Virginmedia withhold access to its cable network, typical anti competitive behavior.

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Oh dear Telly why can't you come out with something constructive for once instead of your usual anti-Virgin ranting as the needle is getting constantly stuck on the record.

---------- Post added at 21:57 ---------- Previous post was at 21:56 ----------

As usual you simply have no clue what you are talking about.:rolleyes:

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Evidence suggests otherwise ;)

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Really dear Lex you must take off those rose tinted glasses your masters supplies to you.:)

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Ok, TiVo seems to be successful,the broadband in some of the fastest in the UK and Virginmedia offer HD for free that Sky charge £10.25 a month for. Although Sky offer more HD is it worth the extra £10.25. Virginmedia also include ESPN in the XL tv package where as Sky charge either £12 a month of £9 a month depending on your tv package.

I hope offcom find in favour of VM as Sky are robbing thieves over charging other providers to discourage a competitive market.

Is that ok Denphone?

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Whilst my position is that it's Sky's content, they bought it, they should be able to profit from it, I would have to just point out that withholding access from the Virgin cable network hasn't prevented Sky from being competitive in the market for any of the services that Virgin supply by cable. Given that Sky's dominance in the pay TV market has been built on it's Sports output, there is clearly a better argument that the withholding of this content is more damaging to competition than the withholding of access to Virgin's cable network.

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Well when in areas consumers can get Sky and VM the difference in TV channels is minimal, VM get ALL Skys sports channels just not ALL HD.

But in the same areas Sky customers maybe limited to 3Mb BB where as Virginmedia customers may be getting 100Mb, How is that fair?

Virgin should be forced to open the network that passes more than 50% of UK households.

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Clearly the CAT don't agree with yours or OFCOM's way of thinking , I'm sure they'll have been thorough in their investigation of the evidence.

Indeed , I guess some skipped that section :p:

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Touche

PS: CAT is not my master ;)

Re: Sky Sports pricing dispute: appeal ruling looms
 

Except, there is nothing stopping Sky investing in their own fibre network to give customers 100Mbit broadband.

However sports rights are a single shot thing. It's impossible for Sky's rivals to offer the same service at the same time as Sky - so they have to buy Sky's channels.