Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

I got STM'ed during Happy Hour again. :mad:

I downloaded 4gig between 1.00pm and 3.30pm. As my tier gets allowed 7gig between 10am till 3pm and 3pm till 4pm is supposedly un-metered, to be STM'ed is taking the proverbial IMO.

Although I had no need to download anything else today, the fact that VM make up all their stupid traffic throttling schemes and then don't even bother sticking to them got right up my nose.

That, the abysmal Indian support, the abysmal superhub and having to wait for about another year for speed doubling has pushed me over the edge and I have ordered Sky Fibre 80/20 and Sky Talk.

I got Free Installation, the Sky Fibre is the same price as my 30meg VM and Sky Talk is way cheaper than my BT phone so overall I will save a little cash and hopefully get a better BB experience.

Fingers crossed anyway. I've been told to expect at least 67meg down with absolutely no throttling of any kind whatsoever. Install date is 20th August.

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

Doesn't the traffic management depend on the type of download, P2P is treated differently to 'other' traffic, that's been discussed ad nauseum on here anyway, good luck with Sky.

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

STM doesnt care what type of traffic it is.

Although I just ignore STM now as its a 50% theottle now instead of 75%. I can download at 15mbit/sec even when STM'd.

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

Ah ok thanks for clarifying. Yes when I downloaded mountain lion and all the associated updates I was throttled to 15mb but it doesn't really bother me that much to be honest.

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

when your speeds lower due to stm, the ping did got higher ????thanks

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

I don't think so. Speed just went from 34/3 to 17/3 at just past 3.00 pm.

It's happened before a couple of times.

I just got tired of clock watching just to make a few small downloads.

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

More than 7GB - new definition of 'small' I hadn't come across before.....;)

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

Probably wants to download the https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...012/08/124.jpg or believes should be allowed to.https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2012/12/10.gif

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

Keep us posted how you get on Mick , this will probably be my next move when we finally get fibre.:(

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

Please get the facts right.

Nowhere have I said I downloaded "More than 7GB".

Anyway I have no need to as I downloaded the Internet years ago and these days just need the occasional update. ;)

Anyway this is not about how much I downloaded it's about VM not honouring the Traffic Managing rules they themselves set.

---------- Post added at 12:58 ---------- Previous post was at 12:57 ----------

Done that and got the T-Shirt. :)

---------- Post added at 12:59 ---------- Previous post was at 12:58 ----------

Will do.

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

well with sky fibre he will be allowed to without being throttled.

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

Not being funny but its really not that hard these days to hit the traffic management limit. So the sarcy comments about him wanting to download the earth are a bit stupid. 2 HD films at about 2.5 - 3 gigs each and a game demo and your done ... i've done it myself a few times, Download a film from Sky anytime watch it, download another while im watching the first downloaded, once films are watched pop onto xbox live and download a demo or a new game if im feeling a bit flush with money that weekend and boom. Cannot wait for my Sky Fibre install to be honest so i can get rid of this jittered, congested overly managed mess that is virgins network...

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

Me to :tu:

---------- Post added at 15:05 ---------- Previous post was at 15:02 ----------

End of the day i don't give a fig about STM, my connection goes from 100 meg down to 50 meg which is still a decent speed and far better than any of my friends on ADSL :LOL:

I download what i want, when i want, how i want,. ;)

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

heres my parents upto 20mb speed :(

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2012/08/36.png

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

Ok then, really happy for you ...:clap: not everyone wants, needs or can afford 100mb the point i was making is the usage caps before you hit traffic management are low by todays internet usage standards. Netflix streams in HD, Lovefilm streams in HD, game demos, patches or a full game, Sky Anytime+, HD youtube streaming, bbc iplayer, 4od etc etc take your pick from the plethora of bandwidth hungry services the internet is used for. End of the day virgin are forcing peoples hands into either living with permanent traffic management or taking the higher end (more expensive) internet packages. Funny on this forum i read all about Sky forcing peoples hands into taking up services because of thier greed, seems like virgin are doing the same thing here.

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

But that's like complaining that when you bought a Mini, it was fine for just you and your partner, but now you have four kids, it's not big enough.

More services require more bandwidth, VM and other suppliers now offer bigger packages to allow customers to use more services - it's like being peeved your six year old PC won't play black Ops, and Blaming Activision.

ymmv.

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

That is awful, a contended area I am guessing.

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

Its nothing like that at all, personally i think that is a really poor analagy. 60 meg package for example between peak hours you are allowed 5gb of bandwidth before you are traffic managed. So your telling me that someone who pays for 60 mbps of download speed should have 5gb of bandwidth to play with in the evening? Sorry mate but come on that is rediculous i dont know of any other ISP providing a fibre connection that has this in place. Ok with Infinity 1 you get a 40gb monthly usage allowance which is another cheap tactic to get people to take up the more expensive infinity 2 option. But none of them to my knowledge have a daily download limit before your connection is halved for 5 hours.

Also are you suggesting that a family lets say 2 parents and 2 teenagers should all take up the most expensive option on virgin to get 10gb of usage per night, so that even if they were under STM they would still have 50mbps to play with? That is pure nonsense at the end of the day you and i and everyone reading this knows that downloading 5gb online between 4-9 pm if you have 3 or 4 people using the internet all at once is done in no time.

As i said i fail to see what you were saying as far as the mini goes, 60mb should be PLENTY for the average family but with rediculous restrictions on how much you can download before you're speed is halved. It is like i said forcing people to take up the most expensive packages that they do not need.

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

But they would be halved to 30Mb/s, which surely is more than sufficient for their needs, as HD streaming is 5Mb/s, which would allow 6 people to stream a HD movie each.

What would being STM'ed to 30Mb/s stop them doing?

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

30 meg just means the Linux iso's take longer ;)

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

And this is exactly the point. What can you download at 100mb that you can't at 50?

---------- Post added at 18:59 ---------- Previous post was at 18:56 ----------

Here's my "up to 30mb" speed :)
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2012/08/37.png

---------- Post added at 19:00 ---------- Previous post was at 18:59 ----------

I can do the same on 30mb though :)

---------- Post added at 19:02 ---------- Previous post was at 19:00 ----------

But it doesn't STOP after that 5GB has been downloaded. It does slow down by 50%, but that's still 30gb and only for 5 hours.

---------- Post added at 19:04 ---------- Previous post was at 19:02 ----------

Exactly. So things take a little longer. Big deal :(

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

But we all know that from reading on here and other forums that ones people are under STM it seems to have an adverse effect on the qaulity of connection, i know for me it certainly does. Anyways im gonna make this my last words on the matter because this forum is known for its bias towards VM which is fine considering its a cable forum. :)

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

Really? Anyone else spotted this bias lying around? I keep losing stuff so it was probably me :p: :D

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

I can spot a bias right now, it goes under the name of Carl Waring posting a speed test with an invisible caption that says "My internet is fine, theres nothing wrong with Virgin Media".

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

Well here is my 30Mb connection which appears to go past the up to 30Mb download and the 3Mb upload and this is normal for me at any time of day.

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2012/08/35.png

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

That's not bias, of course. That's just confirming that not everyone has such a bad connection. It's called balance and is actually the exact opposite of bias.

The OP obviously does have a problem with their connection. Nothing I can say will help with that, but they should certainly get it sorted out.

Not that there was an 'invisible caption' but if there were it would have actually said "My internet is fine. There is obviously something wrong with yours."

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

This is me on an up to 30MB package for BB.

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2012/08/34.png

I would like a better upload speed, but it serves me adequately so I have no real complaints.

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

No need for that. VM operate a large network (actually several large interconnected networks). Just because you (or anyone else) get a bad connection it doesn't follow that everyone does. Similarly, because Carl, Peter and I (or anyone else) get a good connection, it does not follow that everyone does.

Bias goes both ways. There appear to be large group of people on here who think that VM never provide a good service. That opinion is just as biased.

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

Did you get 30mb as an upgrade from 10 when you asked for it?

If so then that explains the slightly lower upload speed; which will increase to 3mb (inkeeping with VM's 10:1 speed ratio) when your area gets the free speed upgrade.

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

That's interesting - I'm on 60/3 and although the downstream will normally exceed 60 the upstream resolutely remains below 3.

My upstream config is

Primary Upstream Service Flow
SFID 58061
Max Traffic Rate 3072000 bps
Max Traffic Burst 8160 bytes
Min Traffic Rate 0 bps
Max Concatenated Burst 8160 bps
Scheduling Type BestEffort

Now I'm assuming that 3Mbps max rate will always give me less than 3Mbps up because of overheads. Is your 30/3 config different or is something else coming into play? Be interesting to see your config.

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

Yes, I called to upgrade the phone package and they offered me a free upgrade to 30MB as part of the phone upgrade. Pleased to know it will go up when my area gets the speed upgrade.

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

It has always been this since day one.

Primary Downstream Service Flow Max Traffic Rate 33330000 bps Primary Upstream Service Flow Max Traffic Rate 3333000 bps

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

Interesting - I wonder if you'll get a reduction in upload to match mine when you get your doubling - or is that a doubled + 1 10Mbps?

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

As mine is in the New Year sometime I will have to wait and see, possibly by that time it should be sorted but then again we have very few issues in my area so you never know.

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

I reckon it will be the same for everybody so if anybody else has a doubled 30 your upload config would be appreciated.

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

Install went like clockwork. The BTO chap was on time, 10 minutes to install the filter on the master socket, 15 minutes to sort the Cab, 10 minutes to connect up and run a test.
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2012/08/15.png
And he was on his way.

However all is not good. I wanted to use my own router and had researched how to hack my rt n-16 running tomato to let it connect to the Sky system. For this I needed my sky router username/password which they obfuscate. Relatively easy to obtain from the Sagem router which I expected to receive however they have sent me their very latest Hub.:shocked: for which I have no idea how to obtain my username/password. So I am stuck with it for the moment. :(

No specs for the Hub although I believe it to be a 300 N device with 100meg ports :( It is a dual DSL/Sky fibre device. There is a dedicated DSL connector but the sky fibre is connect direct to the switch only leaving 3 ports for other wired devices. Providing the device proves to serviceable the easiest thing is to connect a gigabit switch to it.

I'm going to use it as is for a bit and see how it performs.

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

Never understood Sky's stance on this. By all means provide the router, even only provide support to people using it if you must, but don't actively prevent people from using something else. This was always my problem with the SH when it lacked modem mode - how arrogant to suggest that your router will be sufficient for everyone's needs.
I used the HH3 with my Infinity connection up until about 2 weeks ago as I was struggling to get the port forwarding to play ball. Now I'm using a WNR3300 with DD-WRT and a gigabit switch. I've got the flexibility to use what I want after the OR modem, as it should be!

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

I couldn't agree more.

I knew Sky were inflexable as regards routers but I really wanted to dump BT.

I didn't expect any problems with a Sagem. Getting this new Hub has flummoxed me for the moment but I am confident someone will figure out how to extract the relevent data from it soon.

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

That's not a bad connection,

Can you do a speedtest to Paris, France?


And am I right in saying 120 Mb will not have STM ?

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2012/08/14.png



Well 120meg is VM's "speed doubled" 100meg. As 100meg is micromanaged I would expect 120meg to be the same.

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

Well when 100 Mb launched as it was the top package it didn't have any STM.

I also heard rumours that when 120 Mb comes into force, as it would be the top package it also wouldn't have STM and I can't find any STM info on it.

Also could you please do one final speedtest to Wellington, New Zealand?

A pingtest to Maidenhead would be nice too, to see the jitter and ping.

The sky speeds + ping look impressive and I may have to consider switching if they match Virgins 120 Mb speeds or higher. I imagine they are using BTs fibre ?

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

fiber cant come soon enough here.

last 2 to 3 days I noticed severe issues, by severe I mean web pages not loading, emails not arriving ssh barely responding on an idle line.

here is a tracert.

Tracing route to bbc.co.uk [212.58.241.131]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms home.gateway2 [192.168.1.1]
2 8 ms 7 ms 8 ms cpc14-leic14-2-0-gw.8-1.cable.virginmedia.com [8
2.30.112.1]
3 * 1672 ms * leic-core-2a-ae7-775.network.virginmedia.net [82
.3.35.73]
4 1693 ms 1638 ms 1632 ms leed-bb-1c-ae5-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.253
.174.113]
5 1883 ms 1808 ms 1814 ms leed-bb-1a-ae10-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.25
3.174.21]
6 1775 ms * 1744 ms nrth-bb-1b-as2-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.253
.185.101]
7 1768 ms * 1843 ms tele-ic-4-ae0-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.253.
174.18]
8 * * * Request timed out.
9 * * * Request timed out.
10 1621 ms 1660 ms * ae1.er01.rbsov.bbc.co.uk [132.185.254.46]
11 1800 ms * 1725 ms 132.185.255.60
12 1672 ms 1659 ms 1661 ms 212.58.241.131

The first external hop looks normal, so this indicates an issue between my UBR and the rest of VM's network. I personally noticed this issue 2 out of the 3 past days at around 5pm. When I checked the TBB graph which I havent checked for a while I see a huge spike with much of it red, but not only at 5pm but also again around 10pm, checking historical data shows it almost daily at random points between 5pm and 11pm for the past 3 weeks. In addition my general jitter has been poor since mid may with noticeble congestion showing after 9 in the morning and I cannot remember the last time I had max download speed as thats also been affected.

BT put FTTC back to dec 2012 but work has been ongoing since june so I really hope its ahead of schedule because I will be off in a flash when its available. VM are acting like they want to lose customers.

Normally I contact the CEO office and start a 6-12 month process of waiting for the fix, not this time, the decision is made I will be parting ways with VM as soon as FTTC is here.

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2012/08/12.png

Ouch, it didn't like that server much.

[img]Download Failed (1)[/img]

Yes it is BT's fibre.

---------- Post added at 19:30 ---------- Previous post was at 19:28 ----------

Seems like it.

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

Thanks for that!

They are impressive results!

I shall probably move to BT when the 100 Mb is available in my area.

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

Its not all rosey in the BT world...

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2012/08/11.png

http://www.pingtest.net/result/68376288.png

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

I'm sure one day sky will also have STM once they are also over subscribed. Im on 100Mbps (Just been double) Had virgin since 0.5Mbps I have never noticed STM I average around 450GB per month on 50Mbps that's an average of 15GB a day. Sunday evening I downloaded a 21.2GB file never went slower than 8MBps

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

people were saying this 2 years ago, now sky are a major uk isp with subscribers in the millions. Still no STM or FUP, just investment in their backbones, FTTC is a test for them as its a huge jump from adsl speeds. I dont think any non cable isp has STM, thats something unique to VM due to them oversubbing a heavy use fast service on narrow shared pipes.

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

I agree and I hardly see the point in "doubling speeds" if when you use your connection they throttle you back down 50% :/

Seems pointless.

The top tier or top two tiers should not have any restrictions.

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

Actually it's a big improvement. A non-doubled 50Mbps user was throttled to 12.5Mbps after exceeding the threshold now a doubled 50Mbps user will still get 50Mbps under the STM plus the thresholds have been raised too.

What you should be complaining about is paying the same as new customers but having to wait anything up to a year to get the same speeds and thresholds.

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

Absolutely!

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

Which of course you don't have to do as they will upgrade on request at the price of extending the contract. If everybody actually did that of course and actually made use of their increased download capability then VM would be up that well known brown coloured creek with no paddle. This is what happens when marketing lead a company by the nose.

I upgraded from 10Mbps to 60Mbps for £2.50 a month. Others have done even better it seems.

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

The point is you should get what you pay for.

You wouldn't buy a race car and then get told after 20 miles the car will limit itself :/

So if you pay for 100 that's what you should get unless you are going crazy and running it 24/7.

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

you forgot 'if' adequate capacity is in place. On paper its a good improvement yes.

Seems a big coincidence my latest woes coincide with the latest speed bump from VM. This is with still with upload speeds on restricted configs as well, so its going to get even worse for me when those get unlocked.

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

Yes I didn't mention that. My area is back to very acceptable right now which is why I abandonned my switch to Infinity when they messed me about - I simply didn't trust BT to sort out problems in a timely fashion if my line was dodgy which it could well still be as that was why I left BT in the first place. If VM performance drops to the sort of levels I saw late last year and early this then they won't be getting a second chance and I will take a gamble on BT who may by then have got their act together.

I disgree that you don't get what you pay for with VM when it is actually working properly as the STM is well documented and it's unrealistic to expect 1:1 leased line performance from a consumer product that is the price VM charge for it.

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

yes STM itself isnt a huge hinderence when active, and I actually dont care about it much, I just want a service that performs well when I need it.

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

Well after going from an unlimited 100mb connection, to a half arsed 100mb connection, and not getting my 120mb upgrade on time, put back till unknown!!!

Sky fibre pro is now available YAY.......:):):):):)

says i will get 51mb down and 11mb up with NO shaping,

2 calls made,

one to sky to order,

install on the 12th September

next to virgin to buy out remaining 3 months / reduce to lowest possible package,

good riddance!!!

No more waiting till 9pm till i can start using my connection,

No more throttling anything and everything...

No more lies

No more forever moving goalposts.....

(Throttling is only gonna get worse as speeds increase!!!)

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

Let's us know how it goes on the 12th !

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

FYI I was estimated 53 down and 13 up, got a full 80 down 20 up (line capable of about 88 down)

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

I was estimated at 64 down and get 75/16

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

I don't recall exactly what my estimate was just that Openreach CBA to turn up and do the install so I stuck with cable.

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

Cab's quite a distance to be honest,

looks at least 300mts,

at this point i could not care less if i only get 25mb,

as l just want rid of VM!!!

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

With vectoring on 30a you should be easily able to get about 150Mbps at 300M.

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

Except that isn't what's currently being used. From memory my estimate was 60Mbps and by chance I'm pretty much exactly 300m from the cab.

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

My line behaves like a 300m line and I get a theoretical max of 88-94, but an estimate of 53 as previously stated. Just sayin, when it eventually gets doubled upgraded his line will probably be able to keep up.

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

VM will announce some more jam tomorrow which might just might start getting delivered a year or so after the announcement. My VM area doubling date is currently set for March-August 2013 - any bets on which end of that timescale it will be if they actually meet it at all.

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

Measured with wheel 340 meters exactly!!!

Would 51mb be a bit optimistic?

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

My cabinet is more than 400 metres away out of line of site and I never have any speed issues because unlike BT copper cabling distance does not matter.

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

The actual cable may not follow a direct line path. For instance I'm on the same side of the road as my cab but the drop cable comes in from a pole the other side of the road. From what I've seen most people get better than their estimates - probably BT deliberately give estimates that are low so they don't get complaints.

---------- Post added at 10:09 ---------- Previous post was at 10:04 ----------

I think most people who move from VM to FTTC do so to reduce jitter and packet loss and increase upstream rather than worry about the top end Mbps which VM STM will crop off anyway after half an hour or less of full speed usage at most times people want to use their connections.

FTTC may still be cable length dependent but a lot less so than ADSL as the lengths are so much less. The rest of the technology seems to knock spots off VM cable at the moment as BT and Sky, unlike VM, don't seem to be running their network at insane utilisation rates at peak times.

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

Incidentally BT have been completely bang on time with their speed upgrades on FTTC so far.

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

even off peak utilisation can be high on VM, a 100mbit customer on VMs forums is seeing congestion at 9.20am which VM staff have told him they see nothing wrong and I also see jitter at early hours of the day indicating utilisation is still high enough to cause jitter. My speeds are only now consistently fast after about 2-3am and before about midday. Other hours it varies too much and at weekends its more like 9am before speeds drop off.

---------- Post added at 14:45 ---------- Previous post was at 14:43 ----------

you sure? lots of situations where estimated live data is pushed back 3 months at a time multiple times. My own area has missed its original sept 2012 date and new estimated date is now dec 2012.

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

I pretty much get full speeds all day everyday.

Ping is rick solid online too with 9-15ms ping on games like Cod and tf2.

The only issue is jitter which is normally 1-5ms.

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

Yes cable can deliver but for many it simply doesn't. Mines fine right now but it has been poor in the past.

My main gripe with VM is the huge delay between announcing speed doubling and actually delivering it. For me it's no big deal as I bypassed the wait by upgrading to a speed doubled product but probably millions of existing customers are getting a worse deal than new customers as they are paying the same price but getting half the speed - or sometimes more if they've neglected to visit the car boot sale known as retentions internally recently.

I was going to leave VM for BT Infinity but Openreach CBA to actually turn up and do the install so I cancelled and upgraded with VM instead. If the poor performance I've seen before returns I'll give them another chance.

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

For the many I'm sure it works, hence they millions of customers.

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

Same here.

Probably the same here too, but I never measure that :)

---------- Post added at 19:45 ---------- Previous post was at 19:43 ----------

Care to put a figure on that? Last time I checked, official figures were that 66% of their customers were getting the headline speed.

A fair point.

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

Pingtest.net is speedtests website for checking jitter which I'm sure you know.

Worth checking ad too pack jitter can degrade online gaming if that's what you do.

A good ping with higher jitter is no good.

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

Here's mine; done just now.

[img]Download Failed (1)[/img]

Ping's a little higher than normal :(

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

No I can't. My statement is based on the number of complaints I've seen here and elsewhere and the high level of vitriol exhibited by ex-customers whenever VM gets discussed on various boards.

Care to post a link to those official figures you are quoting? 66% seems rather low to me - I would have expected more.

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

Well yes. And we all know about 'negativity bias', right? :)

http://store.virginmedia.com/broadba...al-speeds.html
Well at least you found some negative spin to put on it. Well done! ;)

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

That's quite a bit of jitter.

Try pinging bbc.co.uk and see if the ping is stable.


On the same server I get 13ms ping and 1ms jitter.

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

Indeed, pinging some Austrian guy's 15/1 cable connection today (from my BT line mind you, so it has the jitter of both our connections added together):

RTTs of replies in ms: min/avg/max/dev: 56.109 / 56.982 / 60.922 / 1.511



Meanwhile in VM land (this is VM 100Mb EH9 on my ping page, so reasonably good for VM):

RTTs of replies in ms: min/avg/max/dev: 38.945 / 44.493 / 58.957 / 4.376



Meanwhile in BT land...

RTTs of replies in ms: min/avg/max/dev: 21.395 / 21.635 / 21.756 / 0.103

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

I just tried from here:

C:\Users\Carl>ping 92.235.190.31

Pinging 92.235.190.31 with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 92.235.190.31: bytes=32 time=47ms TTL=56
Reply from 92.235.190.31: bytes=32 time=33ms TTL=56
Reply from 92.235.190.31: bytes=32 time=27ms TTL=56
Reply from 92.235.190.31: bytes=32 time=27ms TTL=56

Ping statistics for 92.235.190.31:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 27ms, Maximum = 47ms, Average = 33ms

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

They only did two speed upgrades and neither of them were done by area. There was no estimated date, a precise date was given both times and the whole country was switched on that day.

You're talking new area rollout, not existing area speed upgrades.

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

The BT line is impressive however it could just be down to your own Virgin connection.

What is bbc.co.uk like for you on both?

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

I think youre mis understanding, he is on BT, those tests are from his infinity connection to those stated

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

Ah by "official" you mean VM's figures - I thought you meant some independent testing.

Actually it wasn't negative - I'd assumed that more than 66% would be getting somewhere close to their headline speeds. In fact 66% was a number chosen by VM to calculate their averages so is an arbitrary number. Measuring over 24hours makes the speeds pretty meaningless too though as it's what you can get at peak times that counts because by definition that's when most people want to use the service. Most really wouldn't care if they could get a Gbps at 3:00am if their peak time speeds were poor.

The devil is in the detail of course - how close is close? I'd accept that within 10% is close and I suspect more than 66% get that close even at peak. Where the problem lies imo is that the skinny pipes mean that when it unravels it unravels big time and VM seem to take an age to fix it.

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

I do indeed. Independent testing for VM by Samknows. They are also officially the fastest according to OFCOM; though I'm sure you'll now come up with a reason why that's not actually true either.

I wasn't being serious; hence the smiley. And I actually agree with you :)

Actually I would have thought that measuring over a longer period would give more accurate results.

The tests are conducted at random times throughout the day; mainly when your connection is otherwise idle.

Indeed. I was going to ask about that. It was the only thing left that could be the problem! Any way to reduce it from here?

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

I've edited my reply a bit as it didn't put across my meaning well and in doing that I also took out the VOIP comment.

Your 7ms speedtest is higher than I normally see - my JDA testing which runs 24x7 normally shows 1-4 unless I'm actively downloading or uploading something sizeable. VOIP should still work well with 7ms. It was the big variations of 20ms in your command box ping that I meant but as that was a one off it's not enough to base my comment on.

Where jitter affects VOIP is when it is bad enough for packets to arrive out of sequence because that will obviously screw up the speach to some degree. If lots are oos it will be awful - I make sure I'm not hammering the downloads if the phone is being used.

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

The BT line *is* pinging the BBC.

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

ok fair enough, if you still have my ip by the way you can test jitter on that also ;)

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

I've modified the test slightly to simulate a typical high-quality VOIP connection - 100pps, 80B payload size. On your connection:

Packets: sent=1000, rcvd=1000, error=0, lost=0 (0.0% loss) in 10.029377 sec
RTTs of replies in ms: min/avg/max/dev: 20.327 / 32.502 / 53.147 / 5.985
Bandwidth in kb/sec: sent=10.768, rcvd=10.768
Out of sequence packets: 21

VM in my area:
Packets: sent=1000, rcvd=1000, error=0, lost=0 (0.0% loss) in 10.020790 sec
RTTs of replies in ms: min/avg/max/dev: 25.218 / 30.334 / 54.009 / 3.774
Bandwidth in kb/sec: sent=10.777, rcvd=10.777
Out of sequence packets: 2

BT Infinity:
Packets: sent=1000, rcvd=1000, error=0, lost=0 (0.0% loss) in 10.021413 sec
RTTs of replies in ms: min/avg/max/dev: 31.378 / 31.789 / 32.796 / 0.170
Bandwidth in kb/sec: sent=10.776, rcvd=10.776
Out of sequence packets: 0

Statistics for pingbox1.thinkbroadband.com:
Packets: sent=1000, rcvd=1000, error=0, lost=0 (0.0% loss) in 10.001254 sec
RTTs of replies in ms: min/avg/max/dev: 11.144 / 11.257 / 12.889 / 0.085
Bandwidth in kb/sec: sent=10.798, rcvd=10.798
Out of sequence packets: 0

Note the Std. Dev figures don't tell the whole story, as packet to packet jitter on VM in my area is quite low, with occasional "gaps" of 20ms+ e.g.:

Yet on yours it's constantly variable but most jumps are <10ms:
And despite st.dev. being less than 2x as high in your area, out of sequence packets are over 10x higher, the latter being, as mentioned, quite disruptive to VOIP communications

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

Before you rewrite history you might want to re-visit where you thought you last checked your official figures and place them in the correct context?
I think you might find it was more like 66% of users got within a specific percentage of the headline speed? ;)

For example from Ofcom/SK/VM in mid 2010:
Of course I daren't even suggest or hint about the lack of information concerning the actual statistical sampling by node/cmts/area.
Nor anything regarding the way the actual data is "normalised"! :(

Not that 2+ yrs worth of data myself and 1600 other SK/VM trialists could ever be released publically anyway without VM&SK express consent.
Just to balance my implied critique - my own d/s from my latest calculations easily exceeds >90% of Max Configured thruput rate for >90% of time in one Brighton hotspot across 2 CMTS chassis.

Remembering that D/S is only 1 of a total of 10 metrics that we currently collate and probably (in my case until very recently) both the d/s & u/s were the only two more consistent measurements!

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

Fair enough. But the point is still valid :)

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

you think thats ok constantly variable during the morning?

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

To honour Mick Fisher's point about BS, VM is full of BS in other areas.

Here's what they currently say on their web site in relation to the Super Hub:

Welcome to wonderful wireless broadband
With a wireless network in your home, no-one needs to plug in with wires. That means everyone can connect to the internet at the same time using one fast, secure broadband connection – in different rooms and on all sorts of devices (like laptops, smartphones or games consoles).
The best bit? All you need is a Virgin Media Super Hub, which is included with all our broadband packages.

The Virgin Media Super Hub - our fastest ever wireless- Packed with the latest wireless ‘N’ technology for a really fast, secure - connection
- Built to handle speeds of over 120Mb
- 5GHz compatible

How fast is wireless broadband?
Don't worry - going wireless won't cramp your style. You can still do everything that you'd expect to do with a wired connection, only now you're not tied to your desk:
- Go online anywhere in the house
- Print stuff from anywhere in the house
- Get fast broadband on your mobile instead of using 3G
- Send photos from your mobile to your laptop
- Play music from your computer around the house
- Download a film onto your laptop to watch on your TV

I don't need to point out the blatant pieces of BS - surely even to die-hard VM geeks.

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

Go on... humour me :)

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

Why?

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

It gives his limited amount of brain cells something to do

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

Well if you can't then it doesn't matter. You said there was "BS" in there. I simply asked where.

Re: Finally had enough of VM BS...........
 

Well all of it is BS as far as I am concerned.