Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18521468

and yet...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...ens?CMP=twt_gu

Hmm! I'm sure someone will be along to inform me as to why the two cases are not the same.:erm:

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

Ask how much Jimmy Carr contributes to the Conservative Party?

I'm sure there's a level of contribution that would have resulted in Cameron praising Jimmy Carr. :(

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

He's not a tory which conveniently answers Maggy's question re the difference between cases

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

Jimmy Carr's tax arrangements are morally wrong. There is something to be paid for being sensible and using the tax system to ensure you don't overpay tax, so you abide by the sprit of the regulations and ensure you're not accidentally getting taxed twice or getting taxed on items that were not meant to be considered.

However it's something else entirely when you use loopholes that are only there because it's something the Inland Revenue hadn't yet considered, like a hacker exploiting a series of software bugs to break a system. When you pay a fraction of the relative tax rate that everyone else pays then that is morally wrong. You can't justify that imo, it's not being overtaxed, it's paying hardly any tax. When Carr says he pays the tax he is meant to pay and not a fraction more he is wrong. He is not paying what he is meant to pay, he is abusing the system as close as he gain without getting throw in jail to ensure he doesn't pay anywhere near what he is meant to pay.

That Cameron's father was also morally wrong doesn't detract any responsibility from Jimmy Carr.

Society should make these kinds of actions shameful and unacceptable. I can't stand the defence that a lot of his fans are offering that 'he hasn't done anything illegal'. Is this really is how little we've come to expect of each other? The standard to aim for in a person is not to break the law?

/rant.

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

True, but generally you should make sure your own house is in order before passing judgement on others.

Ken Livingstone found this out the hard way ;)

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

Having read The Times yesterday the tax avoidance scheme seems quite simple and could be used by any taxpayer quite easily (but no doubt there was a simplification)

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

Yes, Fair enough. Cameron should be quiet about tax avoiders if he has done the same or is content to have people in his Government who have done the same. I am actually unsure if that's the case. Although I won't hold Cameron at fault for the actions of his father unless he continued to the trend.

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

Quite agree imo there's no difference between Carr and a benefit cheat.

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

To a certain extent, the tax system deliberately encourages avoidance. For example, different levels of road tax are designed to encourage drivers to buy more economical cars, thereby avoiding the higher rates of tax associated with gas-guzzlers.

However, there is a continuum which starts with avoidance that is encouraged, through a sort of simple, classic avoidance like opening a bank account in a jurisdiction with more favourable rates, ending in the sort of aggressive twisting, turning scheme that is right on the very fringe of what's honest.

I'm not going to start trying to judge whose tax affairs sit where in that continuum though.

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

As Robert Peston put it https://twitter.com/Peston/status/215524260234543104

So I'm sure we'll find out ;)

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

True.

Reminds me of an ongoing thing in my family. Two cousins are on an apparently high salary. High enough that they are in the top tax bracket. One will only stay in this country every 90 days. The other happily lives with his wife and children up north, and is constantly needling the one who lives abroad to avoid tax. His reasoning is that he considers that high rate tax payers have been given a good deal by this country. They owe it to the less fortunate to put something back.

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

Surely the line is crossed when you're moving from intentional tax avoidance measures that the Government puts in place, such as the car example, to schemes which exploit loopholes that were not to be used in such a way but the set of circumstances in which they can be exploited were not envisioned by the Inland Revenue.

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

Possibly, however if a loophole is acknowledged and yet not closed, what do you make of it then?

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

If there is a morally wrong amount of tax to pay, when does it become a morally right amount? Or is all dodging wrong? And if it is, do I have to get rid of my ISA?

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

That either they are working on it or someone in a position of powers stand to benefit from it. I am pretty sure HMRC said they are looking into the loophole that Carr, and about 1000 others, are using but presumably they need to consider how to close it without impacting upon genuine investment. Unfortunately as The Times' story mentioned, the company involved are used to this and will simply go and exploit a different loophole.

---------- Post added at 22:38 ---------- Previous post was at 22:35 ----------

An ISA is a scheme designed to promote saving and using the tax system to do it. You're abiding by the sprit of the law and the system when you use it, just as I benefited when my student fees for University were tax exempt.

It's morally wrong when you know you're exploiting a bug, an error, in the system to pay less than you're meant too. It's a cheat.

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

I wonder how many millionaire 'celebs' who've cajoled ordinary people into giving their hard earned to charity have used similar schemes and what they did with the money they saved...

If all our glorious leaders avoided commenting or acting on things they or their families had done, the Houses of Parliament would be full of tumbleweed. Ask Bros Miliband about IHT...

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/avoidance/vision-strategy.htm

this is what the HMRC has to say on the subject .It all sounds very good and looks like they are taking strong and immediate action on the problem which will result in every taxpayer paying what they should .Of course you have to remember that this is the HMRC we are talking about and at the present time opening a letter and getting it to the correct dept for actioning takes about 4 months .

In my opinion the whole UK tax system needs tearing down and re building from scratch .It has become a bloated monster that no one can control or even understand and it is not surprising that people take advantage of holes that are less of a "loop" and more of a "gaping chasm"

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

If we are talking about what's morally wrong then may I add that imo, making people who earn more pay proportionally more tax is also morally wrong. Everyone should pay the same percentage of tax on what they earn......
I don't see why I should have to pay 40 or 50% of my income to the government when someone else pays less......that's not fair :confused:

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

I think one of the problems will be in seperating Jimmy Carr the person (when he performs) from Jimmy Carr the business (where he employs others to run his back office).

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

Again, what is the difference between an error in the system and the limitations of the system? The Grauniad clearly wants to paint Cameron's family in the same light as Carr, but is failing to capture offshore investments an error, or simply a limitation inherent in a national tax system in an international context?

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

I think the Guardian should probably get their own house in order if they want to take the moral high ground (according to Private Eye they tax evade too)

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

All I see is double standards, how can Dave have the balls to comment when they are all doing the same but in different ways. If judged on morals, then who's morals are we basing them on?

I don't get the part where Dave says 'People work hard, they pay their taxes, they save up to go to one of his shows' - How long does it take to save up £30? Does Dave think £30 is a lot of money then? Clearly must do when he thinks people should live on nothing these days.

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

What about the Q continuum? how much do they pay?

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

We shouldn't get too far into blaming 'Dave' or saying it's double standards because it most certainly is not .Camerons family took advantage of laws or flaws in the system that where available to everyone as they are now .The government has decided that the economy is in such a bad state that these avoidance schemes need addressing so they will do that or at least attempt to sort it out so any changes will affect him just as much as it will affect anyone

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18531008

He claims to have pulled out of the scheme

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

Well I am not really sure about the Cameron's arrangements which is why my initial post sort of glazed over it and focused on Carr whose reported tax avoidance I understood better. I haven't read about Cameron so didn't really want to get into it.

Offshore investments being untaxed I think is more difficult. If they genuinely earned that money abroad and then store it abroad then I don't have a problem with it. If they are using offshore accounts to avoid paying tax on income that they have earned in the UK then it's immoral.

My understanding is that Carr was funnelling money, after a bunch of bizarre formation of companies of which he then resigned and rejoins, into this offshore K2 scheme and then getting back as a 'loan' which circumvented a lot of tax?

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

I look forward to hearing who else Cameron thinks is morally wrong now he has taken the step of singling individuals out.

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

:tu:

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

I personally think all tax avoidance schemes are morally repugnant except the ones that pay for charity.Off shore,onshore I don't care.Pay the taxes you are supposed to pay.

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

Wonder if he will say if any of these are morally wrong in minimising the taxes that they pay in the UK

Google
Amazon
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I much prefer it when the law is guiding what is right or wrong, and not the PM deciding on a particular day what is right or wrong.

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

Oh and if Dave wants to talk about what is morally repugnant perhaps he should take a look at the case of soldiers being made redundant days before their pension dates are met..Been very quiet on that one.:mad:

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

:clap: Well said, this country is losing £billions in corporate tax avoidance schemes, but I haven't heard Cameron attacking Amazon, etc !!!

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

every big business is the same and equally morally wrong and these said big businesses are what really run this country and not the government

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

If they don't like it then put a stop to it. Why this half-arsed approach where something is perfectly legal, and then appeal to people's moral judgement to not take advantage of it? Legislate against it and stop moaning ffs.

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

They will not do that they like having greased palms and without big business support their palms will only be sweaty lol

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

Puts a whole different perspective on 'morally wrong' doesn't it?

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

I moved location with a company and took my relocation expenses in the form of a loan which would be written off if I left the company. This meant I paid 0% tax.
100% legal. Morally repugnant? Well I didn’t lose any sleep over it.

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

I feel that HMRC need to chance its stance on Tax Evasion/Avoidance and crack down on it and reclaim tax money "stolen" from the goverment.

They should not leave any stone unturned and the sooner they do it the better

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

Surely one way to ensure expenses aren't cut by tax is for the payer to gross up the payment, pay the tax to HMRC and the receiver then gets the amount due? OK so the payer looses out (a little but they did force the expense) but the tax man and the receiver both gain.

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

I'm not sure why relocation expenses should be taxed anyway. They are legitimate expenses. You can always cap the tax-free aspect at e.g. one months salary.

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

That was the original plan, but apparently doing that would have affected people claiming tax credits resulting in them being worse off. This is why the company paid the relocation amount in the form of a loan.

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

It's legal. However it's not an intention of the tax system and is an error that occurs because of an unforeseen circumstance. I think the tax system must be so complicated now that these problems occur.

From HMRC (opens as PDF):

and, from ITV, what Jimmy Carr was doing:

This is clearly exploiting the tax system to pay as little tax as possible without going to jail.

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

+1:tu:

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

So they should reform the tax system and/or close the loopholes. It simply isn't good enough to go 'yes, we accept that this is legal, but can you please not do it because we don't like it'.

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

I think the right thing for people like Jimmy Carr should pay all the money back

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

Alan, Has the logistics company you work for ever taken steps to limit its tax liability? If so, with you being in the senior management team, have you raised concerns about this to your colleagues or spoken to the board to prevent this? If the company you work for has taken advantage of a loophole which is then closed, have you suggested to the board that, as above, they should pay any tax avoided?

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

I never said I worked in logistics, I work in the Rail and previously Bus sectors in London.

If I was a member of the senior managment of a logistics (Yodel for example), I would stongly critcise the company/board/colleagues for avoiding tax and yes I would demand the return of the "stolen" tax money

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

If it is morally wrong, close the fecking loop holes or is that too fecking simple for you Dave?

Or would that upset a few of your, 'We're in this together' let's support the Tory Rich fan club?

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

If he does not close them, he will lose further support, of course we will see in 2015 (if they are lucky!)

(The rich have provided the money, but the rest of us provided the votes for him)

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

So the company you are currently a senior manager with, have they taken steps to limit the tax they pay and have let you let them know of your unhappiness if so?

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

As for as I know the Rail company I work for, I have not heard of any attempt of them avoiding tax, if I did, I would let them know I would be against it

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

I have to admit I'm shocked you don't know. I was certain you would have investigated this before joining said company and on an on-going basis. After all you are very keen on criticising other people / companies on tax avoidance. I imagine if you do discover they are avoiding tax then the only possible outcome, for a man of your principles, would be to tender your resignation.

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

I have not found any plan to avoid tax in the time worked on for that company (its a TOC by the way), if I did find s secret plan, the first thing I will do is leak it to the press

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

Sorry about that! :(

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

What do you mean?

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

From what I understand, any corporation, business, or individual not on PAYE, who employs an accountant expects that accountant to deal with any liability for tax within the rules of the HMRC. Any accountant worth his salt will ensure that his client will pay the minimum amount of tax whilst staying within the law. It is neither illegal nor immoral to do this, it is business.

Mr Cameron may not like the fact that individuals, businesses and corporations are fully exploiting all the many loopholes that exist in our tax system and depriving the country of £billions in lost tax revenue, but the ball is in his court! Instead of lambasting individuals in the press he needs to put the effort into sorting out the system. If this means many extra highly qualified staff within the HMRC and the Treasury then so be it, supposing £50m in staffing cost to maybe collect an additional £50billion+ sounds like a fair deal to me!

The only answer is for the government to overhaul the tax systems to remove the loopholes and also to ensure that corporations doing business in this country are liable for tax on those transactions at UK rates payable in this country, not in some tax haven in which the company is registered!

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

What about if I think I'm paying too much tax and that the money raised is being misspent?

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

Then vote for the government that will follow the economic policies you want..;)

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

Tackling the myriad of tax avoidance schemes would be rather like trying to stop a colander leaking using the fingers of one hand I'd have thought. If HMG is going down the prohibition route wouldn't it make more sense to make all forms of tax avoidance illegal with the only exceptions being schemes which HMG has specifically given approval to such as ISA's etc. Having said that, I'd imagine doing any of this in a retrospective manner is going to result in a whole load of protracted, complex and extremely expensive legal cases which HMG has no guarantee of winning.

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

I wish there were one :(

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

There's been quite a bit of noise on this subject recently... maybe it's all a propaganda build-up to HMG having a go at the Channel Island's tax status?

They've already had a go at the VAT "dodge" between UK buyers and Channel Island vendors.

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

So after singling out Jimmy Carr why does the PM refuse to comment on Gary Barlow?

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

Because Gary Barlow is a Tory supporter with whom he campaigned at the last election!!!!

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

Surely it must be just a coincidence that the one he refuses to comment on is a Tory supporter. ;) :rolleyes:

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

Hmmmm maybe? NOT!

I'm just waiting for the hit list to appear in the press when they've done the digging into the tax affairs of the "great & good"!!!!

I think Cameron will regret this latest bit of knee-jerk politics, and it will definately come back to bite him!

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

Because David is an idiot. a hypocrite, and Barlow's mate.

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

Just in from 38 Degrees:-

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

Just a long line of Tory supporters who are fleecing the HMRC.

---------- Post added at 19:51 ---------- Previous post was at 19:50 ----------

Because Cameron is a idiot.

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

This whole episode was wrong and personally although not a fan of jimmy carr he had the right to privacy in his tax affairs with any wrong doing being sorted out by hmrc not by david cameron singling him out. Is it morally wrong to avoid tax i personally don't know having never been in ther position to consider it i am not going to pass judgement to be honest because if i were to find myself in that position i am not sure i wouldn't do the same and neither can any of us till we are in that situation.

What has disgusted me is the singling out of one person whilst so many others have skipped by on the issue and if cameron was going to name one he should have either named them all or printed the whole list on the net for the public to see. Why is it this government manages to hit out at all the wrong people all the time when even when they complain about something there are plenty of torys doing the same thing getting a bit sick and tired of it and i speak as a natural tory although my brand of toryism is the one where people get whatever they need to help themself and a safety net is there for those who cannot i am not a supporter of the current kick the teeth in of anything we don't like toryism that is prevelent these days.

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

Priceless. :D

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

Don't leave the labour supporters out of this! *cough* Red Ken*cough* :D

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

It's the government that sets the tax laws.

They decide 'this stuff is legal, that stuff is illegal. This stuff you pay x tax on, that stuff you pay y tax on'.

I don't see what there is to complain about if someone works within the legal boundaries that the government sets in order to pay the least tax.

If it's 'morally wrong' then make it illegal, or shut up about it.

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

There are far too many posts here calling Cameron an idiot.

STOP IT:mad:


Even us idiots have standards;)

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

Story told to me today. imo, a good illustration:
Let me give you a hypothetical (but probably typical) situation and see if you think if the tax 'management' is excessive......

Business takes about £260k, after expenses and wages for the jobs he creates (which put money back into the economy) the business owner makes about £160k.
Of that, he should pay about £50k tax according to HMRC.
So he has worked his little butt off to generate £260k of which he sees £110k!

On top of that he sees his tax money misspent by lying, cheating politicians and funnelled into the pockets of (some/many/take your pick) people who are out to defraud the DSS because they can work but choose not to or are health tourists or are claiming this/that/the other even though they haven't paid a bean into the pot 'cos they have been welcomed into the country by politicians who thought the well was bottomless.
He looks at the shambles of the NHS with it's terrible waiting times, awful service and overpaid GP's & consultants.......the way he can't rely on the police for much other than fining him if he strays 6mph over the limit & the way the council taxes him not once (domestic rates) but twice (business rates)

This guys accountant comes along as offers to legally reduce the tax bill from £50k to £10k.........no brainer.

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

He's not much of a business man if he can't see the difference between turnover and profit. Or are you just massaging the figures to make the poor old business man look unfairly treated. He's actually worked to generate £160k of which he sees £110k, but somehow he thinks he should pay less than 10% tax rather than the 25 to 30% most of us pay.

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

I think each and everyone of us would not pay (as an example) £80,000 in 'tax' if there was a completely legal way of doing it.

some people I have spoken to think that in the case of Jimmy Carr. that he doesn't pay any tax at all. that's how stupid people are when they listen to the news.
that's how stupid they are with everything that involves using their brain.

ignore Dave. he'll go away soon.

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

I think this all highlights the need for a universal 30% tax rate for everyone as per this thread


---------- Post added at 01:41 ---------- Previous post was at 01:40 ----------

I couldn't agree more :clap:

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

Is there a party that'll tackle this issue? Seems to me that this island is a tax haven for the obscenely rich and the rest of us pick up the bill, it's no wonder our best and brightest think their futures lie abroad when there is so little incentive in terms of cash and standard of living to stay here.

---------- Post added at 03:12 ---------- Previous post was at 03:08 ----------

And Jimmy Carr not only isn't he has also made it known how much of a liberal socialist type he is, he might not be a crook but he sure is a hypocrite.

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

I just think rather then highlight one individual no matter how much he deserved it given one of his past routines this government would be better off closing as many loopholes as they can. No system will ever be 100% secure but ours seems ridiculously easy to work around if you have the money.

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

Which is why I reckon specifying the acceptable avoidance schemes and making the rest illegal by definition is the way forward. No need to keep tackling new loopholes as they appear.


I'd really love to kmnow homw many of the 'great and the good' have preached to the rest of us yet avoided large amounts of tax by measures such as Carr used.

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

Ken Clarke outlined a general anti-avoidance law they are preparing to put to the Commons on QT last night, which would go some way to redressing the balance here.

In answer to the question "Why Jimmy Carr?" specifically, it was because of a routine he performed on Friday Night Live in which he pilloried Barclays for tax avoidance. Utter, utter hypocrisy.

Personally I am quite uncomfortable with politicians making pronouncements about what's "moral" in any sphere, tax or otherwise. Such things are for theologians and philosophers to argue over I think.

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

I too feel a tad uncomfortable being lectured on morals by politicians.

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

Just watched 8 out of 10 Cats. Now I'm under no illusions whatsoever that he only apologised for getting caught, not for what he did.

Usually I can't stand the smarmy arrogant *insert 4 letter word of choice* but kudos to him for taking all the flack on the chin. He made no effort whatsoever to defend his actions. None of the "I took bad advice from my accountant" rubbish you'd expect from a politician, he acknowledged one of the reasons the economy is in a bad way is because people like him avoid paying tax.

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

But is it though?
does the economy know that there's a few million missing out of the petty cash tin. or is it the case that it's surprised to know that it could have a few million more?

I mean I give you £5 every week for the past 10 months. I say I should have been giving you £8 a week if I did it properly, and you say wow I didn't know that. so all this time I could have been having £8 instead of £5?

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

Yes. One of the ways this country raises money is through people paying tax.

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

Actually Gary's right .HMRC have absolutely no idea how much tax revenue should be raised from self employed people .Self assessment sees to that ,you basically tell the HMRC how much tax you should pay and is very rarely questioned

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

The government gets money from people paying tax. That is an unquestionable fact.

If you doubt it then ask yourself what the purpose of tax is.

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

nobodies denying that Russ .I'm just saying that under the current system of self assessment HMRC are at the mercy of all self employed people as regards raising taxes ,what they should raise and what they do raise are two entirely different things .

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

Thanks for clarifying a point I wasn't making...

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

Then maybe you should be a tad clearer about the point you are making ;)

I'm saying that gary was right in that the economy does not know how much it is supposed to have .If all the tax avoidance schemes came to an end and everyone started paying full tax the economy would have a boost but not because it is recovering money it knows it should be getting but isn't ,
hmrc get what they are given not what they think they should get

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

The point I was making was...

I'm struggling to see how anyone could take more than one very simple and straightforward meaning from that.

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

Because I wasn't asking if it's tax that raises money. (we all know that) I was asking what Marty has anwered.

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

:clap: Well said!

Remember this is the same bunch of people who think it is OK to to fiddle their expenses then say "oh sorry I got it wrong" and get away with it! If I had fiddled my expenses to the tune of £40000+ as at least one cabinet member did I would have lost my job and faced criminal proceedings, very few of the offending MPs were ever dealt with in a way that justice was seen to be done!!

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

And the mud slinging continues even when it's legal.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18564187
Someone has opened a whole can of worms..

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-18569728

It's a truism that even bad publicity is better than no publicity.

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

Not sure what your implying by "even when it's legal". Nothing Jimmy Carr did was illegal.

Re: Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron
 

Yeah, Cameron made a gaff in commentating on Carr's tax arrangements.