Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

They seem to be stuck fast on the whole 10:1 ratio right now, so I'm wondering with BT having a 80/20 fibre product, whether they'll think about adding extra upload options for cable users?

I plan to start making high definition gaming youtube videos, but can't right now, as I'm on Sky's unlimited package, which has a paltry 1mb upload.

So I'm waiting on Fibre to be available here in Worthing, as it has the fastest upload speed (20 vs VM's 10)

Re: Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

I am sure they will eventually. They didn't because at the time there was no competition...

Re: Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

Plus cable broadband is by design downstream heavy i.e. it's much much easier to increase download speeds than it is upload speeds

Re: Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

VM had better start doing so soon Sky are already offering fibre in my area at the same speeds as BT & also with no caps or traffic management at all, this is all truly unlimited like the adsl version.

Re: Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

Not at the same speeds as BT, for instance the 40Mbit Sky product has a 2Mbit upload

Re: Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

BT has a 40/2 option too. They just don't call it Infinity any more.

Re: Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

Sky also offer 80mbps down and 20mbps up. Sky Fibre Pro or something like that.

Its still called infinity, its just not available to new customers as the package was changed to 40/10.

Re: Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

No, there's a 40/2 package for new customers as well.

Re: Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

They have the capacity forn10meg upstream on 1 channel, they can bond four upstream channels so technically it's possible. Must be expensive tough

Re: Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

^^ 20Mb per upload channel where I am, just need to see how many they add with bonding. We have 8 downstream channels enabled in my area when I've seen some people are only getting 5 or 6.

Surely if they can add one more upload channel that means the equipment is capable of four and the only thing that costs them is engineer time, making sure it is working correctly?

VM will have to think of something eventually, I feel 10:1 will not cut the mustard in a couple of years.

Re: Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

VM have to do something soon. 80/20 may be a better option than 120/12 for some people.

Re: Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

I'd like to think you are right, but VM are of the view, ( Customer Services anyway ), that nobody ever looks at their up speed.

Re: Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

Sky don't see upload as a big selling point either - their basic FTTC offering only has 2Mbps up I believe. Presumably this is to reduce the impact of heavy duty torrent seeding.

Re: Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

Or to push more people on to the 80/20 service who otherwise wouldn't for just the download alone.

Re: Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

In 3-5 years upload speeds will be just as important as download speed. With cloud computing getting popular and more media sharing you will just need better upload speed to do it. I think a move towards 5:1 would be good. For today's climate and demands it is fine, but planning for the future is important and the way we use the net will be just as important to compete.

Re: Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

I I'm sure like a number of people run a home server .. the upload is very important to me as I often pull stuff off the server from work etc. I'm currently on VM's 100/5mb and due to various issue & the upload speed considering the jump (after years with cable) to BT.
As mentioned with cloud computing upload is key .. virgin offer so called unlimited online storage but with my key family pics music and video at 500Gb it would be a joke to try to upload hence the server (backs up the family clients etc. as well)

Re: Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

WRONG!!!!
They hope it will get people on to Sky fibre pro with a 20Mb upload.

Re: Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

i don't believe (even if they can) will give more upload than the ones we have now,at the moment or very near time apart the ones was planned
For normal customers i think will be always 10:1
Can get a business line with VM with more upload for little more cost

Re: Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

Even the business service does not have higher upload speeds.

In terms of overall network capacity the maximum available under DOCSIS 3 is roughly 10:1 so that's where it's likely to stay.

Re: Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

I went for 100Mb because of the upload speed.

---------- Post added at 00:43 ---------- Previous post was at 00:33 ----------

You might find it more secure, to use a paid service like Livedrive. I use them for all our work files and media. Currently 2.1Tb. You can stream video from them via FTP into clients like XBMC.

Re: Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

Not from BT there isnt.

Re: Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

Yes there is.

Re: Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

Care to prove it?

Re: Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

Nope. Can't be bothered.

Re: Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

So basically you cant back up your claim.

Re: Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

BT have stopped the 40/2 product
http://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php...-for-free.html
also at bt sale page is not there anymore
some i learn today & thanks for point it guys

Re: Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

Since when have network capacity limitations stopped VM selling a service. Maximum upstream with two bonded channels is ~ 36Mb so if VM thought they could grab a bit of business by letting a single customer take most of that they would just as they did by selling 100Mb product on 200/18 local pipes.

Re: Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

At the end of the day VM probably set their network up at 10:1 because that's all they thought would be required. And most people were happy with that. Now that BT are installing their fibre network, they can take a look at modern technology, and the needs of the consumers, and install a network that has higher upload speeds.

It is far easier to install a complete new network that is capable of higher upload speeds, than it is to upgrade an old network. Although I should think VM will gradually upgrade their system on a replacement basis.

On the other hand VM could take the view that 99.9% of their customers are quite happy with 10:1, and not change anything.

Re: Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

I'd put my money on that. OK so there are some people that need a lot of upstream but I suspect that your 99.9% isn't far short of the number that don't.

Re: Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

PersonallyI don't need any more than the 10mb I've got.

Re: Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

Bear in mind that the majority of VM customers right now only have 1Mbps and if that was a big problem they would have moved on. Where to I don't know as ADSL is often even less. It's only FTTC that is offering high upstream and that is probably more because it can than because there is a major call for it.

IMO what VM need to address before upstream is the high levels of congestion they seem to be happy to allow which leads to poor download and massive jitter - that's what will be costing them more business than upstream. At least it's certainly why I'm moving on. My ~ 19Mbps up will be welcome but it wasn't the deal clincher - VM's poor performance due to congestion was.

Re: Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

If people only have BB with 1mb upload, then they obviously aren't concerned, otherwise they would upgrade.

1mb wouldn't be enough for me, so that's why I am on 100mb with 10mb upstream.

The congestion issue is being tackled as part of the speed doubling.

On a brighter note, the more people who leave VM and go to BT, the less congestion there will be on VM :D

Re: Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

I don't think that the VM shareholders would consider that to be a brighter note....

Re: Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

Can't be bothered.

---------- Post added at 12:13 ---------- Previous post was at 12:12 ----------

They haven't stopped it, they've just stopped selling it under the Infinity name.

---------- Post added at 12:16 ---------- Previous post was at 12:13 ----------

Which until recently was only 512k, and during that period there were a lot of people moving on (net additions basically dropped to nil).

Average speeds on ADSL are lower, granted, but maximum speeds of >2mbps were well in excess of the best available on even VM's top 50mb tariff here until a couple months ago.

---------- Post added at 12:17 ---------- Previous post was at 12:16 ----------

The same could be said of the majority of people only having BB with 10mb download.

Course the whole VM forcing automatic and "free" upgrades on people is just to massage their figures, since most people would not bother to upgrade otherwise.

Historically most people have always remained on the lowest tariff available on VM, and once again VM are increasing the minimum available despite most people not really caring or needing it, to the detriment of those who do. Remember, surveys in the past have shown the majority of people don't care how fast their broadband is, as long as it just works - i.e. reliability is more important than speed.

---------- Post added at 12:19 ---------- Previous post was at 12:17 ----------

Let's not even go there :dunce:

Re: Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

We have BT Inifinity at work which is sync'ed at the 80/20 rate. Prior to install BT estimated we would get about 56/15 speeds. In reality no matter how hard we try (even quiet times of day) we get about 73/8, i.e. the download is more than expected but the upload is only just over half the estimated speed and well under half the sync speed. Tried all sorts of speed tests including the BT test site.

Tried to complain but am told we have the max sync speed with no evident errors. The limit on the upload is is down to local network restrictions or other traffic within the network. Also the upload speed in particular is not guaranteed even to their own test site!

So, as they say, the grass is not always greener, etc.

I should say we also have a VM 50 Mb business modem connection of the 50/5 spec. and does hit those speeds, to within 10% to test sites, most of the time.

Re: Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

Actually none of the speed is guaranteed over the wider internet, but is guaranteed on the Openreach fibre leg.

Note that there are a few teething problems on the 80/20 service, in particular, some people are being capped at 10mbps upload due to a systems error. This usually solves itself over the first few days with a few modem and router reboots. Unfortunately BT don't let you see your sync speed, though Sky do, and Sky also provide a different service level over the same infrastructure. The fibre infrastructure does provide the ability to guarantee upload speeds, whereas VM's doesn't at all. Incidentally Sky also provide a faster service than BT Retail over the same FTTC infrastructure.

Sadly BT's first-line support can be hit and miss - but I would suggest chasing to get the upload speed fixed. Uploads are disproportionately high on BT so if you're getting 80 down, then your line should be capable of around 30 up, and it does look like you've hit the 10mbps upload "bug".

Re: Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

Where are you getting all your information from???
Sky dont let you see sync rates as they use the same openreach modem as bt which is locked meaning you cannot see sync rates without unlocking it. They dont provide faster speeds than bt. Not sure where you got that from either.
And again BT no longer provide a 40/2 service for new customers. They do provide a total broadband option3 which is fibre not under the infinity brand, but that also uses the 40/10 option.

Re: Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

There is no point arguing, a lot of VM customers know that the superior BT network is rolling out fast with much superior upload speeds and they get jealous.

Re: Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

Why would people get jealous?

If there is another service that is better in your area, and for less money, then all you do is change...simples!!

Re: Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

Incorrect.

http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/fib...ttc-modem.html

Incorrect.

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/35...-post1510.html
http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/gen...ris-cambs.html

Since you are clearly clueless on the matter, I suggest you stop digging.

Re: Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

Learn something new everyday.

Re: Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

Unless they're locked into a contract or misled.

Re: Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

Even if you have just started a new contract, then 12 months isn't that long to wait.

And if the other provider is so much better, then just pay the penalty to leave.

If you have been misled, then take it to OFCOM.

Re: Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

18 month contracts are the standard these days, not 12.

And the latter requires the person to realise they have been misled.

Re: Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

18 month contracts aren't legally binding.

If you don't realise that you have been misled, then there is obviously no rush to move.

Re: Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

Yes they are, where on earth did you get that idea from?

Re: Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

No they aren't Ben. The companies involved tell people that they are, but the truth is that they can't legally enforce it. And I'm sure that the companies also tell their staff that they are legally binding, which would explain your view.

Unfortunately many big companies think that their policies are above the law. As someone who runs a consumer advice website, I see this all the time.

Someone challenged one of the mobile companies over it a year or two ago.

Re: Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

Elaborate please.. I'd like to get off o2 since the signal is absolutely pants in my house, pretty much have to lean my head out the window to talk or go outside..

Re: Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

Contact Trading Standards

Re: Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

Link?

Also if anything over 12 month is not legally binding, why did the EU (and OFCOM) take time out to only specifically ban contracts over 24 months
http://crave.cnet.co.uk/mobiles/eu-b...fect-50003718/
http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2011...year-contracts

therefore implying anything up to 24 months is quite legal and valid

I am aware that as part of that ruling 12 month contracts must also be offered, but I can't find anything to say that's the only thing that is actually legal

Re: Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

I agree.

---------- Post added at 10:26 ---------- Previous post was at 10:23 ----------

At the basic level contracts of any length can be legal and valid. Contracts of over 24 months in the communications industry tend to be unfair (Unfair terms in contracts legislation) and detrimental to consumer interests, but not necessarily so.

B2B mobile and fixed line contracts frequently still operate on 24 or 36-month minimum terms. If >24 month MT contracts weren't legal, BT and VM wouldn't be operating some of their most lucrative business on them.

Re: Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

I am surprised not much fuss has been made over this, we now in a era where to get modern broadband you have to commit to 18 months. (even small BT resellers cant do monthly now due to openreach been 18 months) yet the most common length of term for rented property is 6 months. So basically if someone wants FTTC or cable they need to commit to 3x the length of their tenancy agreement and hope they dont have the landlord not renewing.

I am still of the opinion if the companies had faith in their own products they wouldnt need to have such long contracts, I can udnerstand giving discounts with longer contracts but to have no short term ones available at all is bad.

Re: Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

I think the long contracts reflect the fact that most ISPs absorb setup costs and dish out free routers. There are usually reduced/free periods and cashback site payments too. My first year on O2 cost me £18. There should be paid install + own equipment options but the ISPs like to pretty much force their free offerings down everyone's throats because then they can script support for it and use cheap minimally trained (and paid) staff on the phones.

Re: Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

Most FTTC ISPs actually don't absorb setup costs, BT Infinity being the notable exception. Yet despite £60-100+ setup costs and no free router on some providers you're still stuck with the Openreach minimum term. Most ISPs there also charge you to move your service to a new address - due to Openreach charging them for the same, again BT being the notable exception

Re: Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

Virgin Media won't stand a chance to get 20 Meg upload, they won't do it. Only Sky and BT will do it. If BT or Sky FTTC is available to me then I off to Sky FTTC and bye bye as I don't mind 80/20 as it far better than 100/5 with virgin media (crap upload)

Re: Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

Are you saying they should guarantee the speed for a given sync rate? In general I believe they do not guarantee the sync rate, hence the need for the presales speed tester, which takes into account distance to the nearest cabinet and reports a lower than ideal speed. (Something which should not be a problem with VM due to the better quality cable for instance.)

First I believe if you use the BT test site (http://speedtester.bt.com/) the diagnostic option for the test results shows your sync speed and your performance against it. I am not sure where that info comes from? For us it reports the 20 Mb upload speed and the low performance in comparison to it.

I did not mention before, that although our service is carried over BT Openreach, we bought the service through Zen. They did not mention the possibility of a BT bug, I think after a couple of test power cycles on the BT modem, I will probe them as to whether this bug might be affecting me.

Re: Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

Zen always had a good reputation for support. If you think the performance is down on what it should be then give them a call - if the modem might need rebooting to clear the issue and they have heard that then they'll just ask you to do it even if you already have.

Re: Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

I must admit, I really don't understand how a minimum 18 month contract is allowed.

Re: Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

I have already complained to Zen and tried several reboots soon after the install. Contrary to earlier posts in this thread about speed guarantees their tech support said:

". In relation to your upstream result, I would consider this to be a 'normal' level of upstream bandwidth. Though your modem is in sync at 80/20, it may be that the bandwidth available at the exchange is reducing your own throughput due to other fibre users and the available level of data bandwidth to all customer at the exchange. "
AND

"In relation to the upstream speeds achieved being officially a problem, BT have no official performance expectations for upstream, and so it does not fall into a fault condition unless upstream throughput was hitting service impacting levels, somewhere around 0.2meg upstream would be an estimate of this."

I will try some reboots and do more tests at quiet times of the day (PC connected directly to BT Openreach via PPPoE so no router issue) then get back onto them if the speed is no better.

Re: Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

If you don't want to have one look elsewhere.

The 18 month contract doesn't commit you to use the service of course - it just commits you to pay for it. If I got tied into a contract I wanted out of I would seriously abuse the service. That's exactly what I did when I wanted out of UKOnline 3 months early because their IWF filter was breaking access to other services. They wouldn't oblige so I ran a crawler for http://www.majestic12.co.uk/ 24x7 at over 3TB a month for the final 3 months. They didn't bat an eyelid - now that was an unlimited connection.

Re: Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

Openreach guarantee 30mbps of downstream capacity and 20mbps of upstream capacity for each 80/20 customer, i.e. you'll always be able to get full upstream to your ISP. What your ISP does with it is their business...

That only ever reports the upstream speed as the maximum of the service you chose to subscribe to, and is not in any way linked to your actual sync speed.

Might be worth checking over on Thinkbroadband's forums, the folk over there have a lot more experience with BT/Openreach/FTTC problems. I do know a number of ISPs using BT Wholesale have had this problem, including BT Retail but it seems other providers are either worse affected or just have bad luck...

Re: Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

100/5??? I get 100/10

Re: Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

good for you, but you are aware new customers get 100/5?

Re: Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

I'm confused, I thought all VM broadband packages were using the 10:1 ratio?
Or did they change it recently?

Re: Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

The 10:1 upgrade programme was for the previous tiers i.e. L 10, XL 20, XL 30, XXL 50 and the higher cost 100Mbit

The work for those tier finished in March

The current tiers - L 30, XL 60 and XXL 100, have been increased on the downstream only at the moment - the upload increases come later

Re: Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

But isn't that just until the speed upgrade?

Re: Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

The upload will come later as they are just doubling the downstream at the moment, need to start bonding upstream channels before upload speed can be doubled.

Re: Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

So it should come eventually then?

Re: Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

need to finish

Re: Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

I used to be on 100/10 but when I downgrade to 30/3 then upgrade to 100 meg it change to 100/5 as I had ask virgin media why I didnt get 10 meg upload as I had it before with my 100 Meg but they say I had to wait until double speed upgrade next year. So, virgin changed their config file 100/10 to 100/5 sound a rip off really ? and those who already had 100/10 is very lucky because it wasn't double speed upgrade request.

Re: Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

To be fair it's more likely to be because they want to upgrade the downsteam all in one go, before the upstream, to speed the whole upgrade process up.

Lets just hope that when they have finished the downsteam, that they won't conveniently forget about the upstream.

Re: Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

they were having issues with upstream bonding so they put the rollout back after teh downstream ones

Re: Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

Yup it will do.

---------- Post added at 22:18 ---------- Previous post was at 22:17 ----------

The haven't started the upstream bonding yet.

Re: Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

yes they have, theres quite a few areas already have it

Re: Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

My understanding was that one area has it as part of intial testing, but the rollout hasn't started yet

Have asked a colleague as to why those posters show more than one upstream

Re: Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

My guess is because they have bonded upstreams, thats just a guess though, i could be wrong

Re: Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

Nowhere apart from one test area should have bonded upstreams yet.

Re: Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

Maybe they cloned it.

Re: Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

Not you too

Re: Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

Don't start him off!!!! lol

Re: Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

I'd totally clone myself a second upstream if I were still on VM.

Re: Will VM ever match BT's upload speeds?
 

it would seem this "test area" has major issues as I have seen a very large number of bonded upstreams being posted on the VM forum