Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans cleared, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-17781842

Now I am confused. Both were accused of raping the same woman but one is acquitted and the other is found guilty.:confused:
I cannot find why one was found not guilty.What have I missed about this case?:confused:
Or is this just a badly reported court case?:confused:

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans jailed five years, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

Mcdonald went to the hotel with the lady. Evans came to the hotel later on...

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans jailed five years, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

And how does this makes a difference?

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans jailed five years, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

Guess we had to see the evidence, they did both admit to having sex with her however.

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans jailed five years, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

It shouldn't ,if he was watching Mcdonald and joined in then he must be guilty of something ,all i can think is that there must be some technicality or lack of evidence

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans jailed five years, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

Well I've read several reports over a the days of the trial and I haven't spotted or heard anything.

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans jailed five years, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

I think they should have both been found guilty of the same crime. *******s.:mad::mad::td:

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans jailed five years, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

I know ,it is curious .They where both there and both took part so it is a mystery to me why one would get off and not the other :confused:

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans jailed five years, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

She was visibly too drunk when going to the hotel with MacDonald. If she was too drunk with Evans, she was too drunk with MacDonald, and MacDonald was in the much better placed to judge her drunkenness. Weird decision, and scary as it seems to based on the whims of a jury rather than facts.

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans jailed five years, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

I think there's something relevant which hasn't been reported.

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans jailed five years, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

Isn't there this thing that not only must Justice be done; it must also be seen to be done? All names(apart from the victim) have been reported. Any possible influence on a future jury on a related issue has therefore already happened. There would be no other reason not to report something.

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans jailed five years, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

So you know as a fact that they were both guilty of the same crime then ?

I prefer people to be found guilty of what they did, not what you think they did ...

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans jailed five years, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

I'm not suggesting that the information has been deliberately witheld, just that it hasn't been reported for some reason. Poor journalism perhaps?

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans jailed five years, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

I agree ,and Maggie said as much in her post .It does seem that only half the story has been told

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans jailed five years, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

I hope this case serves to be an education to our young men and young women, many of whom don't seem to think very much about the possible consequences of their actions.

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans jailed five years, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

The BBC website has various reports during the course of the trial and looking at different newspapers(Guardian, Telegraph, Daily Mail, Independent) there are no extra pieces of info. All you have is the Judge and the CPS referring to the victim as being too drunk to give consent, and that the evidence for that was when she was with MacDonald.

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans jailed five years, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

No doubt more will become apparent in due course.

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans jailed five years, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

McDonald got the benefit of doubt, she went with him to the hotel drunk (she couldn't legally consent to sex but....). The implication is Evans took advantage of her drunkenness but McDonald .....

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans jailed five years, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

There must have been other circumstances that allowed them to have different verdicts, if the evidence was the same then wouldn't the judge have directed the jury to return the same verdict for both defendants?

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans jailed five years, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

The evidence was different. MacDonald would have seen her fall over, stagger etc, whereas Evans wouldn't have.

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans jailed five years, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

Strange but juries often come out with baffling decisions.

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans jailed five years, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

Again. If it was the exact same situation wouldn't the Judge have prevented the Jury from reaching differing verdicts?

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans jailed five years, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

You don't happen to hate women do you?

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans jailed five years, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

The way i see it is that the jury came to the conclusion that she gave consent for MacDonald but not for Evans .In other reports i have read it mentions some other men in the room recorded the attack on their phones so maybe that evidence was crucial in showing that she was incapable of giving consent to Evans and so he was found guilty of rape

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans jailed five years, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

:confused: I'm criticising the strange differences in the verdicts of the two MEN. If Evans is decided to be guilty then automatically MacDonald also should be. They BOTH took advantage of her. MacDonald planned to, by taking her to the hotel, Evans acted on the spur of the moment after seeing MacDonald. Whatever Evans did or didn't do to her, MacDonald agreed/went along with it.

---------- Post added at 23:50 ---------- Previous post was at 23:43 ----------

The two other men weren't in the room.
The ability for her to give consent was based mainly on:-
How does that exclude MacDonald from culpability?

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans jailed five years, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

Well at least he will now find a new way to kick balls about whilst inside:erm:

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans jailed five years, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

At the end of the day we aren't privvy to all the information and the verdicts are down to what can be proven .If it can't be proven that MacDonald raped her then he must be found innocent regardless of how immoral his acts where

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans jailed five years, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

Evans was convicted purely on how drunk she was. MacDonald was more aware of how drunk she was than Evans could have been, unless MacDonald told him. Perhaps the jury were judging it on how they thought she might behave if sober. IE sex with one person, yes, sex with a 2nd person at the same time, no. But the conviction was on the basis of her being drunk, which equally applied with both men.

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans jailed five years, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

Sad as I am for the young girl's ordeal and not to minimise it I am glad to see I'm not the only person confused by the result.

What surprises me is the lack of comment from the press, court and police about the two differing results.

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans jailed five years, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

I think there will be ,especially when Evans starts his appeal next week .

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans jailed five years, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

This was in today's Times. (behind pay wall)

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans jailed five years, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

But how was it different apart from pick up location?Surely in both cases she was still drunk and incapable?:erm:

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans jailed five years, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

There are a few bits and pieces in today's paper but nothing much. The Daily Fail is reporting on one of his team mates slagging off the victim on twitter and explains a bit more that one of them too the girl to the hotel while the other turned up a bit later on.

---------- Post added at 11:10 ---------- Previous post was at 11:09 ----------

I'd have said so but juries can be a funny bunch. :(

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans jailed five years, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

If the jury felt that in going willingly to the hotel room was a form of consent to sex then either they have been wrongly advised by the judge ,or the bias of men against women on the jury came into play .I favour the latter which i feel sums up everything that is wrong in rape trials

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans jailed five years, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

Well something stinks.They were both charged with the same offence so obviously the police and CPS thought that they were both guilty of the same crime. I'm going to be puzzling about this for a while.:confused:

No wonder the police get dispirited?:(

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans jailed five years, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

Thats nothing. It's different up here as the Police decide when to charge without having to jump through the CPS hoopla but when the charges are dropped/bargained away or they get a slap on the wrist after pleading guilty is pretty disheartening.

Someone having a damn good go at taking my head off with an axe and getting 9 months (out in 3) after going all the way to trial was a particular highlight... :mad:

Anyway this isn't over yet. I've no doubt the one found guilty will appeal the decision.

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans jailed five years, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

I agree but if there was no evidence to support 1 but other was thats only thing I can conclude for different verdicts.

I had read somewhere that police seized the videos before deletion but it may been only one was videod or it got deleted.

The hotel lad might heared one not the other reconised the voice.

I read since one players has called this lady out on twitter calling her just shows the mentality some players today.

I wish FA got more involved and PFA started to educate them better. Would go along say due to they are in public role model maybe those convicted serious crimes banned for life. It maybe sharp deterent now wanted. Young hopefuls and kids look up to these players. With that in mind think FA needs to punish players for off field activity.

If players wont behave then nanny state is only solution. Make them scared.

It shows to me they paid way too much maybe time for wage cap to re-introduce. Fast cars, fast lifestyle has made them think they above the law, can take what they want do what they want. If they caught they just say they wanted it they gold diggers there been loads cases recently surely clubs should take more responsibility in what there players get upto.

---------- Post added at 09:54 ---------- Previous post was at 09:46 ----------

Totally agree

Biggest one I hate CPS drops it to lesser charge as they think they wont get conviction or worse in case the costs of the trial. They even dropped them completely its not about justice anymore about costs. I can tell alot when CPS muck about its pretty disheartening for victims to you want to throttle them your so angry. Another seeing **** get 10 years then see them serve less on the streets do the same again to another victim.

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans jailed five years, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

So they didn`t both have sex with her then against her will or without her consent?

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans jailed five years, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

As the two events took place only minutes apart and the basis of the charges was how drunk she appeared to be, then there are 3 possible outcomes. Both guilty, both not guilty, or only MacDonald guilty. My basis for the 3rd possibility is that the judge referred in sentencing to CCTV footage at which only MacDonald was present and would have been aware of her staggering etc. Anything Evans was supposed to be aware of, MacDonald must also been aware of, because he was there at the same time. MacDonald was at least complicit in whatever Evans did.

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans jailed five years, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

Seems police now investigating the player twitter remark as it breaches anomity for victims. Good news surely the dangers is women would be reluctant in future to report rape crime especially it involves promenant people/celebs. If this sort mud slinging ensues even if the trial shows she was victim of rape.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-17810574

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-17809268

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans jailed five years, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans jailed five years, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

But that's about new evidence..I still don't understand the original verdict.:confused:

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans jailed five years, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

I never understood it either, I suppose now, there will be one of three outcomes. Charge stands, acquittal, or retrial. I anticipate option #3 assuming this new evidence would make a difference to the defence, it'll go to trial again.

If it does, I'm not sure if that means the other guy gets to go too or not, it's all very strange, it would have been much simpler if both defendants had got the same verdict.

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans jailed five years, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-36099522

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans jailed five years, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

Much of the content of Ched's website has sensibly been removed (for the time being at least).

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans jailed five years, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

It'll be interesting to see what the 'new evidence' is.

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans jailed five years, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

What I find amazing is that his girlfriend (with whom he has now had a child) has stuck with him throughout this - she was his girlfriend when he went to the Premier Inn with the girl.

You would have thought she might have minded him copulating with someone else whilst they were going out together...

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans jailed five years, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

good for her, obviously a strong lady.

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans jailed five years, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

Various possibilities - she loves him massively and is very special and forgiving person; they had an 'open relationship' at the time; the prospect of future kids/marriage and financial security etc. influenced her to put up with it. :shrug:

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans jailed five years, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

"strong"???

Not a word I would normally use to describe "not minding your partner having it away with someone else"...

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans jailed five years, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

Amongst Osem Jnr's university mates, playing around whilst in a relationship is not unusual for both sexes.

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans jailed five years, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

She's loaded, what ever reason she stayed with him isn't down to money

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans jailed five years, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

I have a theory for this new evidence. I won't share because of rules, unless staff say I can say what my theory is. If I'm right though, a gross miscarriage of justice was done. If I'm wrong and IF, i do stress IF, a second jury convicts him he is the **** of the earth. But for now, he is again innocent until proven otherwise.

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans jailed five years, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

Shall l say what is wrong with this damn country, is that we find the person Guilty, till proven innocent.

From what l have read, in the news and on TV. The girl went voluntary with BOTH the players.

The girl was under the influence of alcohol. And that is no reason for both guys to have sex with her.

Evans, has been crucified by the fans, some certain directors of the clubs have said they would quit, if he went to them.

Yes, Evans has had the conviction quashed until a re trial. And this new evidence has come to light, which couldn't be used at the original trial. So there has been a great injustice done here.

This does not give a Male the right to have sex with a female, who is drunk. But the appeal judges must have seen something in the new evidence, to allow the appeal.

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans jailed five years, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

Actually, Arthur, he was found guilty.

This has now been quashed, and there will be another trial.

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans jailed five years, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

Yes, Hugh he was found guilty. But his conviction was quashed. Therefore he has to go a new trial.

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans jailed five years, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

Thank you for repeating what I posted...

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans jailed five years, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

I wonder if the CPS will have the balls to follow through, to have been granted a retrial, the appeal must have something of significance. I still can't get it straight in my head how one of the two was innocent and the other guilty yet the events were minutes apart.

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans jailed five years, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

Found not guilty

https://www.theguardian.com/football...-of-in-retrial

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans jailed five years, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

i hope he sue's the woman for all his lost earnings

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans jailed five years, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

Might be best to just draw a line under it, I can understand him feeling bitter, it has wrecked his career but at the end of the day if he hadn't been there, behaving grubby this whole sordid mess would never have happened. You can only hope this serves as a warning and a lesson to other young footballers and certain types of women for that matter about the consequences of their actions, I won't hold my breath though.

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans cleared, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

Also a not guilty verdict is not evidence the accusor was lying.

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans jailed five years, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

i agree that he should have never put himself in that position, but the woman deserves to go to prison for this. it's to common now where someone famous sleeps with someone and the story is either sold to the papers or a rape claim is put in so they can get as much money as possible in my mind thats prostitution.

the real reason this angers me is there are people out there men and woman that have been victims of domestic violence or rape but it will never go to court because they see things like this and believe that they wont get any justice.

Anyone who makes a false claim of rape must go to prison

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans cleared, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

I've always been a believer of people who make up stuff, that if it's found out to be so (I know this case isn't that) then they get the same sentence that the accused would have got if found guilty, I think it would stop that kind of nonsense pretty fast.

I've read cases where someone's been accused of rape and worst and then it came to light that the person was telling porkies, most I've seen so far is a 6 month sentence - suspended. Not really deterrent worthy.

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans cleared, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

A lot of folk have called him a lot of things (and worse), I wonder what they'll be thinking now. I suspect some will cite this as yet more evidence that the system doesn't take rape seriously and conviction rates are consequently far too low. Accusers could never possibly lie after all...

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans jailed five years, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

You're advocating a system whereby a rape trial becomes a zero-sum game where one of the participants is going to jail either way. Either the defendant is found guilty or the woman was lying. There would be no grey between the lines. It would be a binary certainty that one of those two things would have to be true even though our justice system doesn't work this way.

You're not allowing for the fact there can simply not be enough evidence.
You're not allowing for the fact two people can hold contrasting views of the same event.
You're not allowing for the fact that a jury system is, while very good, fallible.

You claim this angers you because there are victims of sexual assault out there but do you know how many of them would come forward if doing so could see them imprisoned if they're not believed, the jury decides the other way or the case simply isn't strong enough? I imagine very few. Rape convictions would fall to almost zilch.

It's horrible.

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans cleared, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

It's simple really, people accused of crimes like this need to remain anonymous until a verdict is reached at trial.

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans cleared, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

Once case should not be used to draw conclusions about an entire system.

It could well be that rape convictions are too low, certainly many women feel that sexual assault in our society (not just rape) has not been treated well in this country and if that wasn't true then how on earth did Saville get away with it for so long?

Ched Evans is now innocent, people who say things about him now should watch themselves for libel. Hopefully he finds a club and gets to continue his career. This is a horrible situation all round.

---------- Post added at 16:08 ---------- Previous post was at 16:07 ----------

I think this should be the default with the one exception that the police can name them if it's deemed to be in the public interest but that decision has to be made by a judge whose guidance would be to use such a power sparingly.

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans cleared, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

Alas, wouldn't work, people would be screaming that anyone accused of such an offence who are on bail should be named as a public interest to protect potential victims.

People forget we live in an innocent until guilty legal society.

---------- Post added at 16:16 ---------- Previous post was at 16:11 ----------

Just as I think you have hit rock bottom and you cannot come out with anything more stupid you come out with this utter nonsense.

You have to be joking or trolling, no one in their right mind could be so stupid as to think this.

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans cleared, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

+1.

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans jailed five years, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

i think that this woman should be tried as there was gaping holes in her story that's why it was quashed in the first place and why he has been found not guilty.

on the second part i never said that if someone is found not guilty the claimant should go to jail, i said that anyone who makes a false claim should serve time man or woman

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans cleared, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

there was a similar local case, a woman claimed to be gang raped, the local paper was all over the story depicting how horrible the men were etc.

However a friend of mine was on the jury, mixed men and women, unanimous not guilty, as they saw the video footage which showed a completely different story to the one in the papers, where the woman, demanded more, from more men.

He said it was a horrible thing to watch, both the tape, and the people's reactions in court, it seemed that she woke up the following day and regretted what she had chosen to do the night before. however them men's names were dragged through the mud, their lives made a misery.

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans cleared, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

Of course not but there have been many such cases I'm afraid. The problem in cases such as this is that it's very difficult to prove that rape has been committed but the answer to that cannot be lowering the standards of evidence required or worse still, turning justice on its head in favour of what amounts to a guilty until proven innocent presumption. Rape is an awful crime and those guilty of it rightly face severe punishment but in recognising that what we can't do is apply lesser standards of evidence to it. The often heard argument that women never lie about being raped is intended to create such a situation in effect. There's no real success in achieving higher conviction rates is that done by wrongly convicting more innocent men.

It's also about time that the punishments for false/malicious claims was increased. As it is, an innocent man, his wife and children can have their lives virtually destroyed by someone who walks away without anyone even knowing her name. That can't be right.

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans cleared, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

I still don't see how the jury returned the original verdict..and I guess I never will.

I just hope that he takes the whole matter as a worthwhile learning experience and that other young men(sportsmen or not) take this case to heart and learn that women should be respected no matter what the circumstances.

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans cleared, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

He joined Chesterfield in June, and has played 7 games this season (4 goals).

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans cleared, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

Don't the french have a system of guilty until proven innocent...

Tbf from what I remember she was treated as a hostile witness by the prosecution as she stuck rigidly to not being able to remember anything throughout the trial. I agree with you blatent false accusers should face prosecution but from what I've seen she isn't one of them.

Funnily enough I remember asking how on earth he was found guilty and was roundly jumped on by certain posters here, rape is rape I was repeatedly and helpfully informed, except in this case where it wasn't and never was. Your last line is worrying, take this case to heart and respect women or we'll throw you in prison for over 2 years and wreck your life it can be interpreted as.

Like Damien said, hopefully he can find a club and continue with his career because I doubt he's earning much more than a few hundred quid a week and these years without earning plus the legal costs won't have been cheap. Hopefully chesterfield will get a transfer fee out of it as well though

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans cleared, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

:tu:

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans cleared, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

People may find this informative - lawyer's interpretation of what the verdict meant, not the tabloids' emotive views.

https://thesecretbarrister.com/2016/...ed-evans-case/

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans cleared, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

A quick search suggests not

In France, article 9 of the Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen 1789, which has force as constitutional law, begins: "Any man being presumed innocent until he has been declared guilty ...". The Code of Criminal Procedure states in its preliminary article that "any person suspected or prosecuted is presumed innocent for as long as their guilt has not been established""

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans cleared, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

The verdict is the verdict but I can't get my head around his girlfriends actions - one for still being supportive if him after hearing the sordid details of what went on and also the offering of rewards to help in clearing his name?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/lif...bout-high-pro/

"Ched Evans’s girlfriend offered a £50,000 “bribe” to a key witness in his rape trial to help find new evidence to clear him, it can now be reported.

Natasha Massey sent Facebook messages to Gavin Burrough, a receptionist at the Premier Inn near Rhyl.

The 27-year-old wrote: “I’m literally begging ... If you know anything please help me.”

The prosecution described her actions as “akin to bribery”.

Her first message was sent at 12.12pm on May 6 2013.

“There’s a £50,000 reward for any new evidence.

“Do you know anything that could help Ched? X,” she wrote.

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans cleared, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

Worth reading this:

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans cleared, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

On the other hand she went along with the CPS accusation that she had never said or done anything similar before. She had, and the retrial found that way. If he didn't have enough money behind him to investigate things, he wouldn't have been able to bring the case this far. Anybody else would have remained unfairly convicted.

Don't know why the fact that he is a footballer is relevant to the case. What is relevant is that the woman had sex with at least 4 random men whilst too drunk. Only one of the 4 ended up being convicted. Women do go out with the express intention, formed whilst sober, of going out and getting drunk and having sex with a complete stranger. This woman did so on at least 3 separate occasions.

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans cleared, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

No it doesn't. It merely means that just because you can doesn't mean you should. Ched Evans and the other defendant were definitely no gentleman..Taking advantage of a drunk is beyond the pale.

---------- Post added at 23:23 ---------- Previous post was at 23:19 ----------

FFS! Is that how you really think?

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans cleared, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

This case proves to me several things.

All the hypocrites who slagged him off. Clubs that were against him, sponsors who withdrew there sponsor ship dosh should be ashamed of themselves.

The case relied mainly on the evidence of the case. I have been on a rape case on a jury.

Rape is a very serious offence. It relies on the evidence put to the court, times, and what is stated by the victim.

The Victim was a willing partner in the first instance with the first player. Then the second player joins in and the victim accepted this.

Its only rape 'at point of entry' and the victim accepted the activity. IF, the victim had said NO, then that is rape.

And also the words that 'were used' l like it 'rough'

The idea that a 'bribe' was used l think is wrong.

I think that most of this case has been hidden from the press. I read some of the of the case on my phone via Sky News.

Rape, should be in the same legal line as Murder. Its a very serious crime. But at the end of the day, it all comes down to the evidence at the time.

I feel for the victim.

---------- Post added at 23:26 ---------- Previous post was at 23:24 ----------

And also, the vitim said that she hadn't taken any drugs, which would hve made her 'docile'. But she said that she hadn't taken drugs, But in urine tests that she had taken. There were traces of drugs in her urine/

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans cleared, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

Are you trying to imply he is wrong ? because he's not - some girls/women do that.

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans cleared, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

By your definition, the 2 others ALSO took advantage. How many other occasions are there where women have drunken sex with a random bloke? Yet all those are not classed as rape.

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans cleared, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

This. Is worrying, guess poor people just have to suck it up.

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans cleared, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

They didn't ,she gave consent ,the evidence said so

TD's post below is about right ,both parties to blame .He put himself in a vulnerable position and she's just a tramp



---------- Post added at 09:37 ---------- Previous post was at 09:35 ----------

Possibly ,but the only reason she was with them in the first place was because they had money and where famous .Poor people tend not to be hunted by things like her

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans cleared, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

Then maybe steering clear of anyone you think is behaving like that is surely the most sensible option? Not getting stuck in.

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans cleared, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

Things like her? Really

Seems to be a lot of discontent in the way this trial was conducted

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-37666228

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans cleared, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

Love it, "she's a tramp," what does that make him. A man of outstanding moral virtue?

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans cleared, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

Yes ,things like her .

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans cleared, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

Pretty poor way to talk of women like that. I don't see any reason when it's wrong for women to have many sexual partners.

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans cleared, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

Well he's just a footballer so intelligence isn't the biggest asset he has ,put the 2 together and we get a situation that should never have happened and costs the country fortunes and ruins lives

---------- Post added at 12:33 ---------- Previous post was at 12:27 ----------

Couldn't care less about how many sexual partners she has had ,that has absolutely nothing to do with it .Newcastle town center is full of women like her every weekend hanging around the bars the footballers drink in and we all know it's not to find love .

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans cleared, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

So what does that make the footballers who take them up on the offer?

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans cleared, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

as i said before ,idiots ,i'm not defending him but neither am i jumping on the sympathy bandwagon for her

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans cleared, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

Appalling mate, appalling. Prove you're a man by withdrawing that remark please and I will respect you for it.

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans cleared, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

I really don't want see comments like that again that she is a tramp or whatever, I think the social warriors attack on this girl has been over the top and pathetic, calling her a tramp, that was uncalled for, withdraw it or back out of the thread.

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans cleared, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

Nope ,that's my opinion of a woman who goes out seeking sex with men because they are famous ,rich and she could stand to score for a few bob and don't be so naive as to think that doesn't happen

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans cleared, Clayton McDonald cleared
 

Where is the slightest indication that she did that in this case? It started from a meeting by chance.