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denphone 24-03-2012 16:36
Serious accident on M5
 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-17497711

M5 crash leaves coach passenger dead and 39 others hurt.

Quote:
One person died and 39 others were hurt when a coach and lorry crashed on the M5 in the West Midlands.

The motorway was shut after the collision in foggy conditions on the southbound carriageway, between junctions 3 and 4 at 06:24 GMT.

Police said a 35-year-old man from Birmingham, who was on the coach, had died.

The lorry driver, from the south west of England, and another coach passenger, are in a critical condition.

West Midlands Ambulance Service said it had treated 40 adults at the scene.

Twenty-seven of the injured were transferred to nearby hospitals including Queen Elizabeth Hospital and City Hospital in Birmingham, Alexandra Hospital

thenry 24-03-2012 17:08
Re: Serious accident on M5
 
R.I.P

best wishes to those recovering

Hom3r 24-03-2012 17:41
Re: Serious accident on M5
 
Any bets the coach driver was going to fast.

Every day they fly past me doing 70mph, regardless of the weather, in my opinion buses and coaches should be limited to 60mph.

Cobbydaler 24-03-2012 17:51
Re: Serious accident on M5
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hom3r (Post 35404891)
Any bets the coach driver was going to fast.

Every day they fly past me doing 70mph, regardless of the weather, in my opinion buses and coaches should be limited to 60mph.
If you see the pictures, the lorry ran into the back of the coach...

martyh 24-03-2012 18:00
Re: Serious accident on M5
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hom3r (Post 35404891)
Any bets the coach driver was going to fast.

Every day they fly past me doing 70mph, regardless of the weather, in my opinion buses and coaches should be limited to 60mph.
Quote:
The coach carrying local workers to Evesham in Worcestershire had broken down and was sitting in the slow lane when the lorry slammed into the back of it.
Quote:
A bus driver has been arrested on suspicion of causing death by dangerous driving after a motorway collision in which a 35-year-old man died.

http://news.sky.com/home/uk-news/article/16195395

Cobbydaler 24-03-2012 18:06
Re: Serious accident on M5
 
From the BBC page:
Quote:
Ch Insp Carl Flynn, of the Central Motorway Police Group, said the coach had broken down on the motorway minutes before the accident.
It also said that it happened in fog. Must be something more to this...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-17500107

Hom3r 24-03-2012 18:16
Re: Serious accident on M5
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobbydaler (Post 35404894)
If you see the pictures, the lorry ran into the back of the coach...
If the coach drive was innocent, why has he been arrested.

Jayster 24-03-2012 21:04
Re: Serious accident on M5
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hom3r (Post 35404905)
If the coach drive was innocent, why has he been arrested.
He clearly wasn't trying to say that the bus driver was faultless.

Cobbydaler 24-03-2012 21:33
Re: Serious accident on M5
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hom3r (Post 35404905)
If the coach drive was innocent, why has he been arrested.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayster (Post 35404962)
He clearly wasn't trying to say that the bus driver was faultless.
Correct, I was just saying from the pictures, excessive speed by the coach didn't cause it.

Which it didn't, the coach was stopped in the slow lane. I can see why they might have arrested him for not pulling onto the hard shoulder, but what if there was some mechanical failure of the coach that precluded that?

looselipsuk 24-03-2012 21:44
Re: Serious accident on M5
 
So a 999 call is sent 12 minutes before the crash reporting the stranded coach and then, after a call is received saying a large goods vehicle has collided with the rear of the coach, they are able to dispatch police officers who manage to arrive within 6 minutes.
Maybe a shame they were not dispatched after the first phone call as they could have been there 6 minutes before the crash and maybe have stopped it happening.

mertle 24-03-2012 22:17
Re: Serious accident on M5
 
Its sad someone lost a life RIP my heart goes out to family for there loss.

Its sad 2 critical the lorry driver and another passenger

Seems strange why coach driver been arrested.

By the reports from witnesses the coach was stationary for ten minutes in hard shoulder. If thats criminal act now god forbid us.

The others which I would assume all drivers would have done in any situation is put his hazzard fog lights on. As its thick bloomin fog doubt would be much use only give drivers seconds warning not enough time.

"That area is renowned for heavy fog... it was quite horrendous at the time."

The only other was should he removed passenger to safety embankment now this might been against policy of bus company. Ideally they should been out of harms way.

To me I cant see A how the charges can be made he did the correct thing by getting to the shoulder. B how the hell police think there was any dangerous driving. Dangerous driving packing it in lane 1, 2 or 3 thats dangerous.

Now only going whats reportedon that note feel it is peposperous. You may as well arrest every driver in fog, dangerous conditions for driving in it.

I think the police should be bit more tactful. That driver would be shaken by whats happened dont need the police cautioning him at this time when all it looks a TRAGIC ACCIDENT.

Like posted in past there seems air with police today death involved then someone should be charged. Police not inflamable so why do expect motorists. We all been there made decision which was wrong we either got away with it or sometimes did'nt. Driving all about judgement calls.

At worst he made judgement error that judgement error should not land him in jail in my view unless he did something stupid.

---------- Post added at 21:17 ---------- Previous post was at 21:14 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by looselipsuk (Post 35404969)
So a 999 call is sent 12 minutes before the crash reporting the stranded coach and then, after a call is received saying a large goods vehicle has collided with the rear of the coach, they are able to dispatch police officers who manage to arrive within 6 minutes.
Maybe a shame they were not dispatched after the first phone call as they could have been there 6 minutes before the crash and maybe have stopped it happening.
If this true why not arrest the call centre or police who failed to see how dangerous situation was. that makes me :mad: now.

martyh 24-03-2012 22:50
Re: Serious accident on M5
 
I would suggest that the arrest of the driver is all to do with him not evacuating the passengers from the coach .The most dangerous place to be on a motorway is in a stationary vehicle on the hard shoulder,especially if it was foggy,the driver should have immediately got the passengers off and made them stand behind the crash barriers regardless of how cold and foggy it was

mertle 24-03-2012 23:47
Re: Serious accident on M5
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35404989)
I would suggest that the arrest of the driver is all to do with him not evacuating the passengers from the coach .The most dangerous place to be on a motorway is in a stationary vehicle on the hard shoulder,especially if it was foggy,the driver should have immediately got the passengers off and made them stand behind the crash barriers regardless of how cold and foggy it was
Only conclusion I can gleem from this but still think timing not right. Still though dont know that he following company policy.

I think it was most sensible thing to do like you said but factors make it just as dangerous.

He may felt they was safer on the bus with conditions fog.

There may not been barriers only in central resevation thats hugely dangerous expect them to cross carriegeway.

Without barriers standing away on verge could been just dangerous.


Safety passengers hugely open to interpretation whats best for them. It was just unlucky they got hit by lorry.

martyh 24-03-2012 23:59
Re: Serious accident on M5
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mertle (Post 35405003)
Only conclusion I can gleem from this but still think timing not right. Still though dont know that he following company policy.

I think it was most sensible thing to do like you said but factors make it just as dangerous.

He may felt they was safer on the bus with conditions fog.

There may not been barriers only in central resevation thats hugely dangerous expect them to cross carriegeway.

Without barriers standing away on verge could been just dangerous.


Safety passengers hugely open to interpretation whats best for them. It was just unlucky they got hit by lorry.
This from the highways agency

Quote:
Leave your vehicle immediately via the left hand door. Make sure your passengers do the same. You should leave any animals in the vehicle, or keep them under proper control on the verge.
and looking at the news pics there was plenty of room to evacuate the passengers to the other side of barrier

mertle 25-03-2012 00:05
Re: Serious accident on M5
 
yep could not argue the highway code but not seen the location if was barrier then he had no defence not too.

swoop101 25-03-2012 00:09
Re: Serious accident on M5
 
why does nobody question why the LGV hit the bus anyway???
He was obviously driving too fast for the conditions.

martyh 25-03-2012 00:18
Re: Serious accident on M5
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mertle (Post 35405008)
yep could not argue the highway code but not seen the location if was barrier then he had no defence not too.

here you go ,you can see the barrier but it looks like it is a 2 lane stretch of motorway it's unclear if there actually is a hard shoulder on that stretch which makes it more imperative to get the passengers off the bus and don't forget the driver has a duty of care to the passengers which is why he has been arrested in my opinion

http://news.sky.com/home/uk-news

---------- Post added at 23:18 ---------- Previous post was at 23:15 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by swoop101 (Post 35405009)
why does nobody question why the LGV hit the bus anyway???
He was obviously driving too fast for the conditions.
probably because 38 tons of steel travelling at 56 mph does not stop that quickly and he would not be expecting a bus full of passengers stopped in the slow lane :rolleyes:

mertle 25-03-2012 00:37
Re: Serious accident on M5
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35405011)
here you go ,you can see the barrier but it looks like it is a 2 lane stretch of motorway it's unclear if there actually is a hard shoulder on that stretch which makes it more imperative to get the passengers off the bus and don't forget the driver has a duty of care to the passengers which is why he has been arrested in my opinion

http://news.sky.com/home/uk-news

---------- Post added at 23:18 ---------- Previous post was at 23:15 ----------



probably because 38 tons of steel travelling at 56 mph does not stop that quickly and he would not be expecting a bus full of passengers stopped in the slow lane :rolleyes:
I just seen location martyh stand by he was absolute spot on regardless the highway code.

I firmly believe the embankment way too steep it would be extremely hard and even dangerous to have a bus full passengers in that location. In hindsight maybe he should told the last 2 rows to stand out there behind it and told rest buckle up and stay seated as there not enough room behind barrier safetly stand.

I accept rules are rules this case highway code but it should be common sense decision this location not safe. Book tells you all things but still judgement call would like to ask the highway police were should they stood safetly when its bus full.

Maybe family in car could get bit protection but line a coach full behind the barrier you would have some exposed.

Now if they could walked back there was area with lot room to stand but considering conditions partly its not barriered it was huge risk.

I hope the charges dropped for common sense prevail.

Dude111 25-03-2012 05:53
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone
M5 crash leaves coach passenger dead and 39 others hurt.
Very sad...... I hope all 39 recover straight away!!

[img]Download Failed (1)[/img]

denphone 25-03-2012 07:23
Re: Serious accident on M5
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dude111 (Post 35405030)
Very sad...... I hope all 39 recover straight away!!

http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/435/grouphugym7.gif
Yes it is very sad but lets hope all the others recover from their injuries.:(

swoop101 25-03-2012 08:13
Re: Serious accident on M5
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35405011)
probably because 38 tons of steel travelling at 56 mph does not stop that quickly and he would not be expecting a bus full of passengers stopped in the slow lane :rolleyes:
Precisely... he was travelling too fast for the road and weather conditions, as a professional driver he should have been moving at a much slower speed than he was. The distance the bus has moved (with the handbrake on) shows that he was not hanging around.

Cobbydaler 25-03-2012 09:55
Re: Serious accident on M5
 
The hard shoulder was cordoned off for road works.

After getting the call they put a warning on an overhead sign.

It's all in the video here:

http://news.sky.com/home/uk-news/article/16195395

Derek 25-03-2012 11:06
Re: Serious accident on M5
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by looselipsuk (Post 35404969)
So a 999 call is sent 12 minutes before the crash reporting the stranded coach and then, after a call is received saying a large goods vehicle has collided with the rear of the coach, they are able to dispatch police officers who manage to arrive within 6 minutes.
Maybe a shame they were not dispatched after the first phone call as they could have been there 6 minutes before the crash and maybe have stopped it happening.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mertle (Post 35404982)
If this true why not arrest the call centre or police who failed to see how dangerous situation was. that makes me :mad: now.
The Police were probably already dispatched, a broken down vehicle isn't automatically the highest priority there is. If an accident occurs the obviously the seriousness increases and the fast response becomes more important.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mertle (Post 35404982)
To me I cant see A how the charges can be made he did the correct thing by getting to the shoulder. B how the hell police think there was any dangerous driving. Dangerous driving packing it in lane 1, 2 or 3 thats dangerous.

Now only going whats reportedon that note feel it is peposperous. You may as well arrest every driver in fog, dangerous conditions for driving in it.

I think the police should be bit more tactful. That driver would be shaken by whats happened dont need the police cautioning him at this time when all it looks a TRAGIC ACCIDENT.
Good to see you can write off a death and serious injuries as an accident from some videos and web posts. Maybe leave the decisions about Policing to people who are there, in possession of the full facts and deal with serious RTAs on a regular basis.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mertle (Post 35404982)
Like posted in past there seems air with police today death involved then someone should be charged. Police not inflamable so why do expect motorists.
The hi-viz nylon makes them pretty flammable... :erm:

Anyway, if the Police don't seem like they are investigating they are accused of laziness, incompetence or corruption. If someone dies then it's only right the full circumstances are investigated and it's not written off before the blood has dried on the Tarmac.

martyh 25-03-2012 11:21
Re: Serious accident on M5
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by swoop101 (Post 35405037)
Precisely... he was travelling too fast for the road and weather conditions, as a professional driver he should have been moving at a much slower speed than he was. The distance the bus has moved (with the handbrake on) shows that he was not hanging around.
don't be so quick to judge that may or may not have been the case ,the tacho will the tell the story as to the trucks speed and you cannot possibly know that the driver of the truck was going too fast for the conditions .

martyh 25-03-2012 13:33
Re: Serious accident on M5
 
http://news.sky.com/home/uk-news/article/16195868

the lorry driver has died

denphone 25-03-2012 13:35
Re: Serious accident on M5
 
Thats very sad to hear.:(

swoop101 25-03-2012 13:47
Re: Serious accident on M5
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35405074)
don't be so quick to judge that may or may not have been the case ,the tacho will the tell the story as to the trucks speed and you cannot possibly know that the driver of the truck was going too fast for the conditions .
If he could not see the obstruction in time to stop or avoid he was going too fast, that is the hard and fast facts to the matter.
1) The bus was broken down, so was stationary.
2) The Artic was moving and did not avoid the stationary object.

Therefore he was moving too fast for the weather and road conditions, otherwise he would have driven around the bus with no problems.

Please note, I am a professional driver so I do know what I am talking about.

Yes it is sad news the driver died, I feel for his family :(

martyh 25-03-2012 15:18
Re: Serious accident on M5
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by swoop101 (Post 35405108)
If he could not see the obstruction in time to stop or avoid he was going too fast, that is the hard and fast facts to the matter.
1) The bus was broken down, so was stationary.
2) The Artic was moving and did not avoid the stationary object.

Therefore he was moving too fast for the weather and road conditions, otherwise he would have driven around the bus with no problems.

Please note, I am a professional driver so I do know what I am talking about.

Yes it is sad news the driver died, I feel for his family :(
and what was the correct speed for the conditions you being a professional driver and all

swoop101 25-03-2012 17:16
Re: Serious accident on M5
 
how the hell can I tell you that??
I was not there. Now take your stupid attitude and stick it up your arse

martyh 25-03-2012 18:15
Re: Serious accident on M5
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by swoop101 (Post 35405166)
how the hell can I tell you that??
I was not there. Now take your stupid attitude and stick it up your arse
Exactly ,you don't know so before you go accusing people wait for the profesionals i.e the police to finish their job

Hom3r 25-03-2012 19:23
Re: Serious accident on M5
 
I made a mistake in blaming the coach driver for speeding.

But I had car troubles in poor weather I would pull over to the hard shoulder even if ir was coned off, Unless the hard shoulder has holes. Better to have a minor scratches on the passenger side, than having another vehicle pile into you.

martyh 25-03-2012 19:36
Re: Serious accident on M5
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hom3r (Post 35405205)
I made a mistake in blaming the coach driver for speeding.

But I had car troubles in poor weather I would pull over to the hard shoulder even if ir was coned off, Unless the hard shoulder has holes. Better to have a minor scratches on the passenger side, than having another vehicle pile into you.
Exactly ,getting the vehicle out of the flow of traffic has to be the top priority even if it means squishing a few cones

Maggy 25-03-2012 19:50
Re: Serious accident on M5
 
Can we have a little less aggression in this thread please..Use the ignore function if someone is getting on your nerves.


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