Coalition to set minimum alcohol price
 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/20...ohol-price-40p

Coalition to set minimum alcohol price.

l said no because it is all well and good setting a minimum pricing but this will adversely affect the normal moderate drinkers which are the vast majority of people in this country and the drinkers who consume copious amounts of alcohol will still continue to drink large amounts of alcohol no matter what the price is so in essence you are penalising the normal drinker in order to try to curb the large consumption of alcohol by the small minority of heavy drinkers.

Re: Coalition to set minimum alcohol price
 

I have said yes because i have had personal experience of the idiot kids who are drunk because they have nothing better to do than create trouble. You see them on a Friday night walking out of Morrisons with crates of special brew at a price so cheap they are giving it away.

Re: Coalition to set minimum alcohol price
 

I voted no, because why penalise the majority over a minority. And those who are going to drink to excess will continue to do so regardless of the price. This is a bad move.

Pretty much word for word the same as denphone's post. :tu:

Re: Coalition to set minimum alcohol price
 

First they came for the smokers...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came%E2%80%A6

I object in principle to the dead hand of the State interfering in free choice of it's citizens. No matter how good their intentions. And particularly when their 'good intentions' conveniently raise more tax revenue.

Re: Coalition to set minimum alcohol price
 

I voted yes so we can have the nanny state that we need to exist.

we buy our baccy on the black market because of the extortionate taxes. looks like we'll be buying our lager on the black market as well now instead of Tescos.

well done Dave. you're almost there in making everybody so poor that they might just give you that slap you need. and for giving them an excuse to rebel and riot.

There's going to be a few puzzled looks from the police when they see a drunk in the street.
they'll be wondering how he can afford it, and come to the conclusion that he's a rich drunk.

can we categorise 4 cans of lager as the same as a big plasma TV and an iphone when discussing benefit claimants and what they buy with their dole money now?

LOL the 2ltr bottle of cider that was £1.95 in Aldis, will now be £4.24. it's gone up 118%

the 2ltr bottle of Strongbow at Asda is £3.22. does that mean the Strongbow will be the same price as the cheap stuff. or will they increase the price anyway because it's a better brand name than the cheap stuff?

£5.67?

I haven't worked it out, but I think it will be cheaper for people to switch to Vodka.

Re: Coalition to set minimum alcohol price
 

I don't see how this will affect the occasional drinker of wines or spirits - the proposal is for a minimum unit price for the alcohol content, not a blanket increase in duty. Most wines and spirits are already priced well above the 40p per unit level which I think would result in a bottle of wine being no cheaper than about £3.50, maybe a little less.

Generally I prefer Government not to interfere in setting prices but on the other hand I do believe government has an important role to play in public health and this has become a public health issue. I am hoping Derek may spot this thread and comment on it - he may be able to confirm just how much of his workload is the result of his customers' excessive alcohol consumption, and whether the measures already taken in Scotland are having an effect.

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Clearly there needs to be a balance, but I still think we have reached the point where the persistent misbehaviour of some is blighting the lives of the rest of us more than a few pence on a bottle of grog would.

Re: Coalition to set minimum alcohol price
 

While I don't know the official figures, it seems to me that we are (as a society) suffering an increase in Alcohol-related crime and injury. It also seems to me that these increases started occurring around the same time the Supermarkets started actively competing selling alcohol, so I do think these increases are linked to Supermarket low prices and multi-buy deals.

I've seen bottles of wine in Sainsburys that don't cost much more than a bottle of water. That can't be a good thing.

I know that when talking about drinking, the media tends to show rampaging mobs of drunken youth staggering up the road, apparently having fallen out of some late night pub or club, but I'll bet a lot of them have had a fair amount of cheap supermarket booze to drink before they left for the club or pub.

I don't think Multibuy offers for Alcohol are a good thing whether offered by a supermarket or a pub/club/bar. Nor is buying Alcohol in bulk. Say what you like about pub prices, but they do make it more expensive to get drunk.

It does concern me that I can buy 15 cans of lager for just over a tenner. This is well under 1 pound a pint. There's also the problem that my local Sainsbury's would also sell me a 3 or more boxes, each with 15 cans. I am fairly certain I would not be too healthy if I sat down and drunk 33 pints of lager in one sitting. A good barman or barmaid would have cut me off long before then. There's also the fact I would have trouble affording the 33 pints of lager at the pub in the first place.

So, on first reading, I would say this minimum price per unit is actually a good thing.

Re: Coalition to set minimum alcohol price
 

Stuart, just because you got 33 cans of lager. you don't have to drink all 33 in one go.

you save them and drink them when you want.

Re: Coalition to set minimum alcohol price
 

Personally dont drink but think its horrendous idea. Theres other ways to deal with this problem.

One no more slap on wrist by courts.

A scale measure of how much damage/violence of sexual crimes/disturbing the peace they done.

No more oh he nice lad but drink changes him hit them hard and fast.

Make it really punishment they might think next time drink more sensibly the rest of the uk who want a drink gets left alone. Keep doing it get jail time. May start to take back the town centres at night. Nobody wants be kill joy but if drink makes them loutish then better punishment for that loutish behavour should be the way not this.

Make intosacated individuals pay for the healthcare they get provided is another idea maybe thats another way not sure this completely as I know there illness which makes unknowns to his health think they are drunk.

There better ways to handle this not the softly softly approach then hit everyone. Drink drivers should get jailed 2 years they might learn lesson.

Anybody else think harsher penalties will solve issues.

Re: Coalition to set minimum alcohol price
 

Sage advice Gareth, but that simply proves you're not one of the ones the government has concerns about. Sadly there are plenty of people who would neck the lot - or plenty of teenagers who would split a crate between half a dozen of them and use it to get tanked up in the park before harassing passers-by and upending wheelie bins.

---------- Post added at 09:55 ---------- Previous post was at 09:52 ----------

No, I think harsher penalties alleviate the issue for as long as the offender is off the streets but they do not address the underlying criminality. Once they get out of jail, it's back to business as usual. There is no way you can lock up someone for drunken behaviour for long enough for it to make a difference to our streets. You think a few pence on a bottle of beer is inconvenient, just wait until your taxes start going up to pay the millions it would cost to build all the extra jail cells that policy would require.

No, prevention of criminal behaviour is infinitely better than allowing it to happen and then punishing it.

Re: Coalition to set minimum alcohol price
 

It's Gary, Christopher.

is it possible to drink 33 cans of lager in one sitting?

Re: Coalition to set minimum alcohol price
 

If it is set at 40p per unit it will only really affect cheap cider & suchlike..

Re: Coalition to set minimum alcohol price
 

Touché dear boy. I expect the cry of "Gareth!" brings back memories of a sound telling off for some boyish misdemeanour or other. Certainly that's the effect "Christopher!" has on me.

My worst misdemeanour involving cans of lager was one Christmas when I, in league with my brother and one of our friends, worked our way through a dozen cans of Castlemaine XXXX, which we found in the garage. They were the friend's dad's holiday supply. I had 4 cans and a couple of large whiskies before being very sick.

I was 14 at the time and have never had more lager in one evening since that night.

Re: Coalition to set minimum alcohol price
 

So who gets the extra profit? The shop or the exchequer?

The cynic in me says that someone from Tesco went to HMG and said "Lidl is hammering our profits in the cheaper booze sales. What can you do about it?"

I can't see this move doing anything at all, except penalise those on low incomes who enjoy the occasional tipple at home because they can't afford pub prices.

Shop bought alcohol is not "cheap", it is just "cheaper" than pub prices which have been racing upwards for years. So maybe the pub chains have been moaning to the exchequer too, as drinkers moved from pub to home?

Re: Coalition to set minimum alcohol price
 

I'm not convinced.

There are potential health benefits if alchohol consumption is reduced. Recent reports say incidence of liver desease is increasing dramatically as well as other risks. This is perhaps the similar argument to smoking. Realistically if either alchohol or tabacco had been "discovered" today, rather than centuries ago, would they be legal in any form? Home consumption is ever increasing and whereas for many a take out bottle was possibly a treat for many we might have reached a stage where it is just a normal part of their lifestyle.

There is also the anti social behaviour issue. But is it cheap booze, or simply ease of access to it, combined with a lack of peer pressure for moral responsibility and restraint? The reality is that for many, drinking large quantities is seen as evidence of a good night out, and unless that perception is changed then excess consumption will continue unless pricing is prohibitive. I suspect that can only come from dealing with offenders in a harsher manner.

But if alchohol is priced too high, we know the black market will increase. The Channel Ferry companies will be rubbing their hands with glee at the return of the booze cruise punter.

We do also know that times are tough. Most people are responsible, and take advantage of the cheaper supermarket deals to buy in bulk for consumption over a period of time. Given the general lack of feelgood factor is restricting on one of the few ways seen by a majority as many to relax and enjoy themselves a good idea, simply to deal with a minority?

Re: Coalition to set minimum alcohol price
 

I am still undecided, I rarely drink at home and at the pub but around Xmas time I like to get a 2-3 crates to enjoy over the holiday (not all for me) but its going to be annoying if I can't buy a multi buy deal for my beers its only carlsberg lol.

Re: Coalition to set minimum alcohol price
 

The exchequer should get the money.

If we're going to pay over the odds I'd rather it went to the country's balance book and not the retailer/wholesaler

Re: Coalition to set minimum alcohol price
 

Which maybe will affect those at the bottom of the income scale who may like a cheap drink at the weekend .:mad:

Re: Coalition to set minimum alcohol price
 

Given that the government seems to think everyone requires their help on this issue and because it really isn't just another way of generating cash for the exchequer, why not green light the ID Card instead?

The fact of the matter is that the only people in society this price rise solution will affect, are those with less disposable income.

If we're all to be targeted by their concern on this issue, having a card containing information that's required at the point of sale would target everyone equally, and be far more effective than this nonsense.

The card could contain information relating to whether you've been convicted of alcohol related crimes (The courts could black list your ability to purchase from legal sources) or are on an alcohol rehabilitation type program.

Obviously the card can be circumvented by those willing to do so (but then, so can the proposed measures) but it would at least be targeting all binge drinkers, not just the poorer ones.

By the way.. I rarely drink alcohol, so whatever happens, it won't be hurting my pocket :)

Re: Coalition to set minimum alcohol price
 

I wonder if the minimum price will be index linked or whether any increase will be set on a whim by the government. I imagine it could have a small inflationary effect, which might be useful too.

Apparently the plan is supposed to encourage people to go to pubs but I can't see that effect being strong.

Re: Coalition to set minimum alcohol price
 

Try living in Scotland where multi buy on drinks is already banned!

Re: Coalition to set minimum alcohol price
 

I voted no because i do not see how this will stop binge drinkers and to be honest a lot of the problem isn't just the alchohol .Taking drugs even the new type of legal highs have a very adverse effect on people when taken with only a small amount of alchohol so the idiots that this is designed to stop don't actually have to have a lot of alchohol to go nuts in town centers

Re: Coalition to set minimum alcohol price
 

increase in shoplifting then.

Re: Coalition to set minimum alcohol price
 

Have you been in Asda lately? All the wines that used to be 3 for a tenner are now just £3.33 each.

Re: Coalition to set minimum alcohol price
 

agreed every so often society has menace it will I think faize out itself in time. Kids change habits as it gets boring/not cool.

I see only way educate at school hard hitting facts if we like pics to shock what happens. Get in there heads at younger age might mean we save the future nations.

Re: Coalition to set minimum alcohol price
 

I actually agree with that .I'm currently trying to get it through my 21yr old student son that the idea of going out to drink is to socialise not get off your face and puke into your rubbish bin in his bedroom :dozey: .The only coherant answer i got was "well whats the point then" :mad:

Re: Coalition to set minimum alcohol price
 

Bonus: 1 penny saved for every 3 bottles bought, and artificially inflated prices for buying just one bottle removed...

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Don't worry everyone. it's going to have to be another U-turn due to legalities. they don't call him U-turn Dave for nothing.

When I was a young man, we had a Prime Minister with a great big slap head who always said one thing but did another. we called him U-turn Dave.

Re: Coalition to set minimum alcohol price
 

You do seem a little obsessed with our Prime Minister - do you have a "man crush" on him, and your constant bilious comments a method of compensation? ;)

Re: Coalition to set minimum alcohol price
 

Don't be ridiculous. a man crush on David.

he wouldn't look twice at me. would he?

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Re: Coalition to set minimum alcohol price
 

voting yes,
I'm afraid it's the kids that have ruined it for all the responsible drinkers.
The same as those who liked the odd spliff, spoilt by kids.

Re: Coalition to set minimum alcohol price
 

I vote no because there is no proof that it will work.Only a small minority abuse cheap alcohol and frankly if they won't listen to all the advice then they won't worry about paying more for alcohol either.They will still go out and get bladdered on a weekend.

After all smokers were paying silly money (and still are) but it didn't stop them smoking.The only thing that worked was a public smoking ban.

I suggest something similar has to be introduced and the rules on supplying alcohol to underage drinkers should be implemented far more than they are and the punishments should be far more stringent and vicious.And yes I know many of those in the city centres are not all underage but I bet they got the habit as underage drinkers.
That's the group that really should be targeted because they turn into the irresponsible drunken yobs of the future.

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100% agreement with the above maggy j.

Re: Coalition to set minimum alcohol price
 

Ditto!

Re: Coalition to set minimum alcohol price
 

have to agree i am against a minumum price unless its done via tax

Re: Coalition to set minimum alcohol price
 

This stupid idiot government comes out with all these silly ideas, l deal with drinkers every day, and the government will not stop alcoholics drinking what ever they do.

Shopkeepers and big stores will find a loophole that they can get round, and as far as l am aware, what Cameron is doing is illegal.

Re: Coalition to set minimum alcohol price
 

He gives the poorer people a tax break, then hikes up the prices of things they can just afford, knowing that the revenue and VAT will come straight back to the treasury.

You don't get something for nothing with this coalition.

Re: Coalition to set minimum alcohol price
 

I don't think they are trying to stopping alcoholics drinking. I believe they are trying to stop more people drinking to excess. As such, stopping them becoming alcoholics.

As for what Cameron is doing being illegal, since when has it been illegal to set a minimum price?

Re: Coalition to set minimum alcohol price
 

There was an article in one of todays newspapers, that they cannot do that by european law.

Re: Coalition to set minimum alcohol price
 

Another crackpot idea from the ever inteferring nanny state.

This will have zero effect on the drunken louts, who will think nothing of paying a bit more for their alcohol. All this will do is put up the prices for the rest of us.

What do our nannies have lined up next, a minimum price for the sugar in soft drinks ?

Re: Coalition to set minimum alcohol price
 

I am normally very sceptical of state interference but I think we have to recognise the potential distortion the state itself causes to our attitudes to our health via the NHS.

Having a comprehensive health system that is free at the point of delivery is fantastic but carries the risk of diluting personal responsibility. The state is not going to start charging people for treatment of self-inflicted illness like alcoholic liver damage or smoke-induced lung cancer, so I think looking for ways to prevent those illnesses from coming about in the first place is a legitimate pursuit for the state to undertake.

Re: Coalition to set minimum alcohol price
 

Then let's start with really cracking down on underage drinking and those who supply the underage with alcohol..Followed up by campaigns aimed at them because frankly the older binge drinkers are probably beyond redemption.;)

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I agree as well.

at weekends and summer holidays its a regular event to hear drunken school kids in the park across the road from me, in the summer they there until 2-3am drunk nearly every night.

There should be an agressive push to stop underage drinking instead of just randomly pumping up tax to punish everyone, of course the former doesnt generate tax revenues tho.

Re: Coalition to set minimum alcohol price
 

Most spirits are more than £11.20 anyway so the pensioner who likes a tipple (they tend to stick to known brand names) and the person who likes a drop of Famous Grouse isn't going to be put off or made to pay more by this. It's the idiots getting stupidly drunk on bar specials or the kids clubbing together to but a bottle of white cider who will be hit.

Saying that though I voted no as I'd rather see the idiots on their night out binge drinking or the shopkeepers selling to under age drinker being made to take a lot more responsibility for their actions..

Perhaps those with excess alcohol should be made to pay for NHS care the same way as you do with car accidents, the section 5 public order £80 fines should be doubled and the shopkeepers should instantly lose their off-licences if they sell to underage.

Let's hit those breaking the law or with no common sense than those who enjoy a sensible drink.

Re: Coalition to set minimum alcohol price
 

I don't believe the proposal is to use taxation to force the price up, rather it is to legislate to make it an offence to retail alcohol below a determined unit price.

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yeah I addressed the wrong thing but regardless its a bad idea.

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The trouble is that unless Scotland and Wales do the the same, there will just go on booze trips to those areas to avoid the price rise, like a lot of Brits do to France :D

---------- Post added at 12:59 ---------- Previous post was at 12:55 ----------

When that time comes, he will be out of a job! :D

---------- Post added at 13:03 ---------- Previous post was at 12:59 ----------

Remember, we all pay the NHS to deal with the short term and long term problems of alcohol! :(

I fell that there should be limits in where it can be sold

It would led to more "booze cruises" than ever before though, certainly this company will be pleased :D

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...rries_logo.svg

---------- Post added at 13:08 ---------- Previous post was at 13:03 ----------

I think that there had been strong lobbying from major supermarkets, pub chains and ferry companies

It would be better to raise taxes on booze insted!

---------- Post added at 13:11 ---------- Previous post was at 13:08 ----------

If there is going to be a tax on soft drinks, this company will not be pleased :D

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._logo_2008.svg