Sunday trading laws to be suspended during Olympics?
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17419351
Ridiculous, what's anti-Christian about trying to help the economy?

Re: Sunday trading laws to be suspended during Olympics?
 

wheres Clarkson, he'll single handedly handle whoever objects. didnt he take a dig at Italy recently.

Personally Sunday trading laws should be stopped altogether rather than just relaxed. This law in its current form stems from the late 40s but initially its what Christians imposed or wanted to impose years before. We are, I would like to believe a secular society & should cater for all not just bow down to the ideals of the Christian church.

Re: Sunday trading laws to be suspended during Olympics?
 

I am not going to come from this from a christians point of view as i am agnostic, what is exactly wrong though in having just one day without shops going full steam and people just take time to chill.?

Most of the larger supermarkets open 24/6 as it is,and 6 hours sunday why the rush to 24/7 they say the brits do longer hours then people on the continent and have no proper time with their families, is dragging your backside around a supermarket sunday really quality time.

I think the economy aspect is overplayed myself people can only spend their money once if they cannot shop in the time available now 24/6 and 6 hours sunday there really is no hope.:(

Re: Sunday trading laws to be suspended during Olympics?
 

I vote for ditching sunday trading laws....delia behind me shouting "lets be having you!"

Re: Sunday trading laws to be suspended during Olympics?
 

Totally agree ,forget about the religious side of sunday trading that is a nonsense nowadays ,allowing an extra few hours trading on sunday will not make much difference to the economy if any and will only serve to take free time from workers .

Re: Sunday trading laws to be suspended during Olympics?
 

Sunday trading laws should be ditched completely as the is no logical reason in modern society for such an archaic law to still be in place, it is not as if the majority of people go to church so Sunday should be classed the same as any other day.

We need to realise that nowadays many people work of a Sunday and it should be treated as just another working day, remember that the employees that work of a Sunday still only work a 5 day week the same as everyone else.

Re: Sunday trading laws to be suspended during Olympics?
 

I used to work at airport..did most if not all public holidays..and my days off used to be tuesday and wednesdays...which I deligently went to uni...and to be honest...having sunday off is a pain..as I can do more when everything is open

Re: Sunday trading laws to be suspended during Olympics?
 

Families need at least one day that they can call there own .My wife works every sunday (8am-5pm)and most saturdays ,the days off in the week she has i am usually at work and the kids at school

Re: Sunday trading laws to be suspended during Olympics?
 

That is the choice you have made as do most people who work nowadays we do not want to take a backwards step and allow the church a foothold in our modern way of life.

We choose the hours we work by accepting the jobs that we do if you want to have Sunday free then the only real option is for your wife and every other person who works on a Sunday to look for another job because if the Sunday trading laws were ever rescinded we would lose many jobs within our economy which could include her position.

So what do you prefer a Sunday day of rest or a lower family income, my vote is for an increase in jobs by extending normal working hours to Sunday it makes more sense.

Re: Sunday trading laws to be suspended during Olympics?
 

I am quite surprised peter as a former trade union rep you take the position you do,if all uk PLC is going to do is commerce 24/7 with families under pressure to work ,work, work what time to actually relax.?

In France they have a much more sensible approach even though it could be argued they are much more secular then us most of the small shops are shut if not all outside of the Major towns and so are the larger shops as people spend time together and have long lunches over a bottle of wine,one of the people i work with has a son living in france and its much less uptight there then in the UK ,and the pace of life is much slower,they do not believe in a work work work society.

I work sundays as i work in the NHS but realise the importance of free time together.

Re: Sunday trading laws to be suspended during Olympics?
 

There always been strange abnormalties uk.

Seaside reosrts allowed opening due to tourist industry supermarkets, shopping precients.

The one in me due to back ground say it should be all closed but other says it creates jobs and jobs is needed. Small shops not sure would open due to costs its ok opening up 8 weeks but do this throughtout year having to employ extra staff no guarantee of upturn in customers might put them off.

The other is many got cristian/catholic beliefs would this negate whether its actually viable.

The other is before we know it all holidays negated its open 365 days a year. After all we been peddled we get too many by MP's but infact we dont get as many some abroad.

Its definate thought provoking discusion whether it should be permenant change I cant say.

Re: Sunday trading laws to be suspended during Olympics?
 

I have been a union rep in many businesses that have worked on Sunday and by virtue of the businesses involved the is no way around Sunday working, in fact many companies offer 5 out 7 or 4 on 4 off shifts which is the norm in this day and age as Sunday in many businesses is just a normal working day excluding retail which is the business in question are not affected by Sunday trading laws.

I have worked for Sainsbury's distribution and B&Q distribution and both worked the weekend because the stores still required stock to be delivered, in my new position the will be the occasional Sunday shift required but that is the way of the world and unions accept this as normal.

Re: Sunday trading laws to be suspended during Olympics?
 

Do the unions accept it peter , i have just been on the shopworkers union site USDAW this is what they had to say about sunday trading laws.

The shopworkers Union Usdaw has welcomed today's announcement by the Government that they are to leave the laws covering Sunday trading in England and Wales unchanged and will seek to simplify the legislation dealing with age-restricted sales.

1. A survey of over 10,000 Usdaw members completed in April this year found that:

91% opposed large shops being able to open all hours on a Sunday

95% thought the current ban on large shops opening on Christmas Day and Easter Sunday should continue.

2. A Gfk/NOP survey carried out last year found that 89% of the public were opposed to any relaxation of the Sunday Trading laws.

It would seem many unions are concerned workers might be co-erced into working ie have pressure put upon them. USDAW seem very unkeen on any relaxation.

Re: Sunday trading laws to be suspended during Olympics?
 

That is the case ,anyone in retail will tell you that they are required to work sundays there is no choice.Many retail outlets do not take staff on specifically to work the weekends they simply rota in existing staff for those days regardless of any weekend activities that the workers participate in

Re: Sunday trading laws to be suspended during Olympics?
 

Sainsbury's in Haydock is a USDAW unionised and they have full time officials on site, it is a distribution warehouse and they need to work 24/7 to ensure that the stores are kept stocked, the only day they close is Christmas Day.

They are not affected by Sunday trading laws so they have to work on a Sunday otherwise the would be little point in the warehouse being open.

The examples above are only in relation to store opening times plus most of the stores do not just finish once the doors close as most big stores have staff replenishing the shelves throughout the night even on a Sunday and from 10pm on on a Saturday.

It is only trading hours that are affected and not everyone realises that part because they have never worked in that area.

Sunday trading is archaic and has no place in modern society if you go to Scotland and go to a Tesco it is open 24/7 they do not close on a Sunday or at 10pm on a Saturday.

Re: Sunday trading laws to be suspended during Olympics?
 

I find myself agreeing with your entire post Peter ;)

Re: Sunday trading laws to be suspended during Olympics?
 

Retailers are happy with the current laws ,there is ample maneuverability within current legislation to accomodate any company that wants to trade on sundays ,i see no reason for them to be changed ,especially in such a devious manner .We already have some of the most lenient sunday trading in the EU why bother to change them especially when there has been no debate and no consultation and to do it at the time of the Olympics is just plain stupid .

Re: Sunday trading laws to be suspended during Olympics?
 

I thought they were doing because of the Olympics, that was the point. Hence at time of Olympics becomes moot

Re: Sunday trading laws to be suspended during Olympics?
 

:clap:

I'm surprised the Welsh Assembly talking shop haven't tried to ban Sunday shop opening and alcohol sales in Wales. Or perhaps they are waiting for more devolved "power" from Westminster.

Re: Sunday trading laws to be suspended during Olympics?
 

If a retailer such as Tesco had the opportunity to open 24/7 as in Scotland they would because customers would be flocking to their stores, if that did not happen then it would not be viable but I can guarantee that people would shop all day Sunday if they could, no retailer is happy be shackled to such short hours on a Sunday.

Re: Sunday trading laws to be suspended during Olympics?
 

From the op's link



---------- Post added at 13:43 ---------- Previous post was at 13:32 ----------

No it doesn't ,performing such an experiment at the time of the Olympics ,using the Olympics as cover for emergency legislation is very much undemocratic because i am willing to bet that the changes become permanent shortly after with very little debate and consultation .There has been no concideration for staff that will be forced to work the extra hours during the temporary relaxation .

---------- Post added at 13:48 ---------- Previous post was at 13:43 ----------

So if all the major retailers started opening 24/7 how would help the economy ? all that will happen is that retailers will have longer opening hours ,income won't suddenly go up ,people won't suddenly start spending more money because the shops open longer

Re: Sunday trading laws to be suspended during Olympics?
 

I suspect there are a lot of workers out there who will really welcome this chance to work longer hours, especially those caught in the WTC change that will see workers losing WTC if they work under 24 hours per week.

Closing shops on Sunday morning so that the "masses" can go to church is a bit of a daft thought when congregations are falling as people leave religion back in the Dark Ages where it belonged. And why just shops? Why not close down all industry on a Sunday. All Hospitals, Emergency services, the Military? What is so different about shops that they get singled out?

Re: Sunday trading laws to be suspended during Olympics?
 

I don't see it as anything to do with going to church anymore ,my argument against this barmy idea is all to do with promoting family life .From a government that is supposed to be promoting that idea they are going about removing the time families have to spend together in a very efficient way

Re: Sunday trading laws to be suspended during Olympics?
 

Opening for an extra 3 hours 1 day of the week will not magicially put disposable income in people's pockets.

Re: Sunday trading laws to be suspended during Olympics?
 

The whole idea is a barmy one and should be consigned to the scrap heap of barmy government ideas .Fair enough if they insist on allowing shops to open extra hours during the olympics as a special one off then fine ,but the shops should only use volunteers ,but any idea of permanent change should be scrapped we have a good compromise at the moment that seems to suit all parties and should be left as is .

Re: Sunday trading laws to be suspended during Olympics?
 

It works in Scotland so why not here.

Re: Sunday trading laws to be suspended during Olympics?
 

nobodies saying it won't work ,i am saying why bother ,all that will happen is staff will be forced to work more unsociable hours for the same money ,it will not increase profits for the retailers and will adversly affect other smaller retailers who ,such as corner shops ,may earn more when the big shops are shut

Re: Sunday trading laws to be suspended during Olympics?
 

Well USDAW are clearly agaist it in the stores i worked for Tesco for 10 years in the 80s so have a fair idea of what it will affect this debate was going on then ,and still know people who work for Tesco in their stores anybody who thinks current staff will not be co-erced into working is living in a dream world,which is possibly why the 10,000 USDAW members who were polled over 90% were against the idea.

Why does it have no place in a modern society as i have explained to you France is even more secular then us,and their shops barely open on sunday the French prefer family time over a day,families are fractured enough in this country without commerce makining people work 24/7.

I fully realise distribution warehouses are different most operate a "just in time" delivery method so engage their workforce accordingly.

I wonder has there any evidence opening for longer will provide more jobs.?

---------- Post added at 14:43 ---------- Previous post was at 14:38 ----------

Yes i fully agree,it was said when the compromise was reached big chains like Tesco would not be satisfied and lo and behold they are not.:(

The compromise is sensible but yes i agree about the olympics opening but as you say volunteers only.:)

Re: Sunday trading laws to be suspended during Olympics?
 

It would create more jobs due to the extra opening hours but it is probably unlikely to ever happen.

Re: Sunday trading laws to be suspended during Olympics?
 

where's the extra profit coming from to pay fo the extra workers ?

Re: Sunday trading laws to be suspended during Olympics?
 

If it has been announced that longer trading hours in Scotland has made it the region of the UK with the best performing retail economy then I missed that news bulletin.

There are arguments for and against changing the hours that shops can open on sundays but it having anything other than a negligible effect on the economy is not one of them.

Re: Sunday trading laws to be suspended during Olympics?
 

So true. Apart for convenience, it won't do much else. Though it gives more time to spend the money, the amount of money available to spend is basically the same.

Re: Sunday trading laws to be suspended during Olympics?
 

It doesn't work in Scotland. The economy here is not roaring ahead of the rest of the UK. The shops do not sell any more. All that happens is, the same amount of stuff is sold over a more extended period, more people have to work Sundays and fewer people get family time with children while the children are out of School.

Extending Sunday trading hours (by which I mean, permanently, not the temporary lift during the Olympics) can't be defended on any grounds other than the rather selfish demand for people to go shopping at 4pm on a Sunday because they damned well want to go shopping at that time and why should anyone stop them.

Peter, as an avowed Union man I'm gobsmacked that you of all people should be so in favour of what is basically a further erosion of the rights of low-paid workers to a decent structure and time off during their week. And let's be clear about this, the people who will be hit hardest are the low-paid retail shop floor workers who, while technically having the right to derogate from Sunday hours, are the ones who are least empowered to actually do so.

Re: Sunday trading laws to be suspended during Olympics?
 

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

Re: Sunday trading laws to be suspended during Olympics?
 

I agree with this went scotland couple years back we went on sunday we got there late. We had to go shopping previsions by heck the shop was ghost. literally 10 shoppers max.

I even question how succesful 24 hours shopping I know the stackers would have more time with pest shoppers around messing there stacking;). Getting in there way disrupting what they doing asking where so and so.

There lies another really shops need the breathing to replenish stocks without the pesky shoppers.

Re: Sunday trading laws to be suspended during Olympics?
 

:clap::clap::clap::clap:

Quite frankly i agree and was quite surprised at Peters stance myself.:(

Re: Sunday trading laws to be suspended during Olympics?
 

My stance is towards it being an archaic law introduced purely for people to go to church, we live in a modern society with modern needs and the is no need for a shops to open later and shut earlier of a Sunday, they could easily open 9am to 6pm without any issue.

Re: Sunday trading laws to be suspended during Olympics?
 

There is also no reason at all for them to open 24/7 .Just because the original aim of the law has changed doesn't make it any less valid in modern times ,indeed because we are in modern times an more advanced as a society i think we should really be working less hours

Re: Sunday trading laws to be suspended during Olympics?
 

Your argument that something must change because it is 'old' and society is 'modern' is a fallacy. There is no logical reason why something must change just because it has been that way for a long time.

The fact that shops open for more than essential purposes for any time at all on a Sunday is precisely the issue because it increases the number of people who have to work on a Sunday and erodes the seven-day cycle our society has been built around for many centuries.

I'm also a bit sad at your somewhat prejudiced implication that the seven-day cycle's association with 'church' in some way makes it less valid. The fact is, it works. The French revolutionaries tried to decimalise the calendar in the late 18th century and eventually had to give it up (ironically, after an old fashioned dozen years). The seven-day cycle persists because it's a good one that is attuned in some way to a basic human rhythm.

That may be God-given, as the Bible claims, or if you like it could be a natural thing that the Bible simply sought to offer an explanation for (I'm with the former idea personally, but hey ho ;) ). Either way, the seven-day week is discussed in some of the oldest texts in the entire book, which gives the lie to any historically illiterate notion that it is some sort of medieval English invention designed to force people to go to church. It has been around in one form or another for millennia.

I think our put-upon descendants will not forgive us if we give it up.

Re: Sunday trading laws to be suspended during Olympics?
 

And so the real reason for your stance on this is revealed :)

Re: Sunday trading laws to be suspended during Olympics?
 

People would prefer to worship at the till rather than the altar.;)

Re: Sunday trading laws to be suspended during Olympics?
 

By bringing in this temp measure will bring in extra business - BUT, what about the staff that have to work it.

I believe that ALL shops should close on a Sunday, its the only day off some staff get to be with there families, Its fine to say that staff can get days off during the week, but this is not right.

The big problem is and always will be, the staff that have to work these days, will they get the offer of saying yes or no, some employer could be tough, as to them its money through the till. Will they also get extra payment, guaranteed the shop keepers will increase prices, supermarkets will increase prices - but not pay extra wages.

Sunday's is regarded as a day of rest - some hope.

Re: Sunday trading laws to be suspended during Olympics?
 

What about the bus drivers, the train drivers, the pilots, the nurses, the doctors, the nursing home staff, the power station workers, et al - should they also have Sunday off, Arthur?

Re: Sunday trading laws to be suspended during Olympics?
 

I think you'd have earned more respect if you'd have been more honest from the start about what fuels your stance on this.

Re: Sunday trading laws to be suspended during Olympics?
 

Re: Sunday trading laws to be suspended during Olympics?
 

There is always going to be a need for essential work to be done on a Sunday, but if Sunday is not just another day spent worshipping at the temple of mammon, fewer people will be out and about and therefore fewer people will be required to work in those industries that support their out-and-aboutness.

Our society has undergone a creeping change in this regard over the past couple of decades and I really am struggling to see who has benefited from it.

Re: Sunday trading laws to be suspended during Olympics?
 

indeed some jobs they cant shut down it cost millions to restart generators, the chemical plants etc.

there many jobs that need to be done and even the stackers work at shops sunday ready for the week even small shops.

Dont think any nation can have blanket sunday rest.

Although shift paterns should ensure people get flexable days off.

Re: Sunday trading laws to be suspended during Olympics?
 

24/7 is not reached by opening 9 til 6 on Sundays... ;)

Re: Sunday trading laws to be suspended during Olympics?
 

Yes but as has been discussed, the second paragraph is invalid. It would not have any noticeable effect on the economy and I suspect you already knew that.