National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17411117

I can see this causing some problems

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

I can see this costing more that it saves..

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

I think it's hard enough to attract,for example,decent teachers to inner city schools ,dropping their wages will only make things worse.

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

I've always understood the concept of a London allowance as it's unique situation, however to extend the concept in reverse to the rest of the county seems perverse

Surely if you do the same job as someone else, then you deserve the same wage, no matter where you live?

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

that's how i see it ,setting pay rates based on where you live just seems wrong

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

Move all the senior civil servants to somewhere extremely cheap and see what happens to this idea.

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

[img]Download Failed (1)[/img]

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

Middlesbrough ? :)

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

Great idea Ben :tu: and not one Mr AF would have suggested.:D

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

Yet again the government is targeting us rather the people they need to target, like this guy

[Mod Edit - pointless picture removed]

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

Sorry, but I am just making my point, you do know that getting rid of the picture makes the post useless, becuse members would not know what people I am talking about

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

you think posting pictures in your posts makes them any more usefull :shocked:

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

It helps show my point

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

:rofl::rofl:

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

I still have no idea who you're talking about. :dunce:

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

Why on earth should be pay the price and be under the welms of the rich and major businesses? :mad:

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

What's a "welm" ?

:dunce:

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

concider yourself lucky ;)

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

Maybe he meant "whims", which is appropriate, since most of the postings are, at best, whimsical and full of whimsy.....


(imho).

---------- Post added at 15:30 ---------- Previous post was at 15:28 ----------

Not if you do not explain who the person in the picture is, and what the context of it is in relation to the thread - otherwise it is just a random picture.

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

I think the government have caused a problem which will seriously damage the economy and is senseless.

What is the point of scrapping national pay rates, all over the country there are different rates due to the cost of living. In London the cost of living is three times higher than living in the north.


There will be a general strike over this, and l for one will seriously consider on strike with my fellow colleagues.

WHY do the government always pick on the public sector.:mad:

Does the the chancellor have a heart.

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

So how do you suggest that they address this anomaly?

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

There is a good way that this can be solved, the government has to deal with taxes first, we pay more tax for everything moveable going in this country, VAT for example, they can lower this, tax on fuel, they can reduce this.

A good mate of mine runs a garage, he pays MORE tax on fuel than anything, this is why garages charge so much for food and beverage, they make no money on fuel, as it is heavily taxed.

Fuel duty can be reduced, All this government is doing is finding a way of hitting the public sector again and again.

I think they have sufferd enough, why doesn't the government reduce some of the luxuries they get.

Sit Richard Branson was asked this question the other day, and he said that the government could scrap the 50p tax and this should start the economy running.

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

I hope thats not scrap the 50% income tax rate because thats about as dumb an idea as i have heard for quite a while. This is completely stupid so what we will end up with is lousy people in the cheap areas or good people massively underfunded\paid and stretched to breaking point while in the good areas they get better. What the hell is it with this government they are going around systematically screwing about with everything and the savings on many of their interferences is minimal at best. Never ever thought i would say this but if i had the cash right now i would be out of this country faster then the bullets i used to fire.

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

I think scrapping the 50% tax rate is a bad move - use that money instead to raise the basic tax allowance.

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

It think it would be a bad move because even if ,in the long run,it has the intended result ,at the moment public opinion of government policy is such that doing this would cement the cons as the party for the rich

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

i can see that to..
i can see why the government wants that..
i agree.. all people who do 'this' type of job should get the same wages in the private,counil and govenment jobs..its only fair..

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

Yes l think that is a excellent idea.

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

That's just it, people in certain areas are effectively being paid more because their living costs are less. Public sector employees in certain areas are being very overpaid, compared to Private employees doing the same type of job. Is that fair?

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

I once saw a poster that suggested that if the Liberals got into power the country would grind to a halt and no one would be working.
I scoffed at it.

Now I'm not so sure..:erm:

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

Perhaps it is because the government are actually the employer and thus it should be the govenment that sets the terms of renumeration for it's employees.

Once upon a time there was something called London Weighting, in salary packages. That was supposed to represent the extra costs of those who worked there.

Why shouldn't salaries be determined by region and location? As a private sector emplyee in the south east I don;t earn as much as if I worked in London, where I could communte. But if I commuted I'd want a larger salary to compensate for that time and cost. So why is it wrong for such regionalisation to be spread around the country to reflect real value of those locations?

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

We very rarely do know what you are talking about ;)

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

Why do I get the feeling we will soon hear about regional minimum wage given the torys were never in favour of the nmw. If this goes through they will see it as the justification to start messing about elsewhere. For those supporting this how is it fair for someone to do as much work for as many hours and be paid less because of where they live the job is the job.

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

Nope, still don't understand, as it appears to be some wierd language ;)

---------- Post added at 00:54 ---------- Previous post was at 00:48 ----------

I think you have this the wrong way around.

At the moment a teacher for example, gets paid the same in Newcastle or Bedford, although the cost of living is far higher in Bedford. The government want to lower the pay in Newcastle to bring it in line with the cost of living there.

The only place where earnings are above the national level is in London with the London Waiting. And the fringe London Waiting in couties around London. However even this varies between different jobs at the moment.

---------- Post added at 00:57 ---------- Previous post was at 00:54 ----------

And in other areas public sector workers are paid far less than private. But I bet they wouldn't increase their pay.

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

How about the private employees being paid more rather than the public ones less, is that fair and how does this work for MP's, are the ones up north going to be paid less than their southern counterparts all of a sudden, course not.

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

Of course what the government wants for public sector employees of which i am one will not apply to mps (even though they are effectively public sector employees) as they are hypocrites of the highest order.:shocked:

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

tbf, MPs spend most of the working week in London....

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

I can only give my opinion of this proposal based on my experiences as a Civil Servant.

I worked out of an office situated in a poorer area of Manchester, located there as the premises were cheaper for the Government and i had no problems with with that what so ever. I live in a much more affluent area of Manchester where housing and associated cost are a lot higher. I am assuming that the wages would be linked to the office and this seems highly contentious and I wouldn't put it past the Government to relocate offices etc to less prestigious areas if it meant they could manipulate the wage bill in doing so..... As an illustration the offices dealing with the UK Retirement Pensions have been centralised and located in Fleetwood, Lancashire. What is to stop all other departments being centralised and located in areas which would allow the Government to pay the lowest wages possible despite the employees commuting from more affluent areas. I know a case can be made for relocating work to areas of greater unemployment but this work is already being done by existing employees most of whom already being paid less than their Private Sector equivalents.

At one time in the past Civil Servants wages were negotiated with the National Whitley Council acting as a go-between and in the main wages were assessed by comparing the wages paid to employees in the private sector. This went on for several years until the Government found that the private sector wages were invariably higher than those in the public sector and decided to change the basis of wage increases to a negotiated percentage increase which allowed the gulf to widen. When the percentage increase was under dispute we were always reminded that, compared to the private sector, our jobs were more secure and that our Pensions prospects were a lot better. ( Both these things being no longer true for current CS employees, so don't get me started on those issues)

This is the link to a site I have found interesting if any one wants to spend a few hours reading about the Civil Service :D How to be a Civil Servant.

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

To be honest nothing would change, they would just claim back more in expenses.

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

A jokey aside:

http://www.newsbiscuit.com/2012/03/1...-be-paid-less/

I wouldn't put it past them though.....

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

Yes cosseted in a nice bubble of expenses, who knows what Dave and Gideon's next plan will be, do they know women are paid the same as men.

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

Yes, they do - nice ad hominem attack on them, though...;)

My point was in response to a suggestion that MPs outside the South of England be paid less - since most of their working time is spent in London, not a reasoned proposition, IMHO.

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

I think it is reasoned as they go home in the many recesses and how much of their costs down here are covered by expenses and not wages. Doesn't matter what we argue anyway Hugh, they won't be joining in on this policy for sure.

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

Very few spend most of the week in London. They are supposed to spend most of the time in their constituencies.

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

Why? They aren't governors or mayors of their constituencies, they are the representative of that constituency in Parliament. They should spend more time in London and go back once or twice a week to consult with their constituents. The rest of the time they should be appearing in Parliament and debate and vote in the best interest of those constituents, theoretically anyway.

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

Indeed ,i think half the problem is getting the MP's to spend time in parliament voting and debating

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

I thought politicians spent most of their time mass debating?

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

Maybe so in theory. But have you ever been to parliament? Apart from big issues it is almost empty most of the time. Most of the debates are for relatively minor issues, and only those with a direct interest (or direct interest to their constituents) will usually turn up. So their time is often better spent in their own constituency.

This of course is different at minister level, where they are based in London for their ministerial duties. In these cases it's often their constituents who lose out.

---------- Post added at 13:04 ---------- Previous post was at 13:03 ----------

Now that's another issue completely ;)

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

We'll see.I think this may be a bit of spin to make us sigh with relief when it doesn't happen.

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

yep only got see parliment tv channel to see the lazy swines either asleep or decided to be not present.

Would like to see fixed rate of attendance paid on presence of being in the chamber.

They then get small rate to cover there constituency £5,000. They then get £10,000 for position of importance like cabinet and oposition post.

Ban the whips and lobbyist any coverting MP's to vote certain way by bully's should be delt with banned permantly from parliment.

I would argue banning parties though its thought provoking but would not work insane abit. However MP's should always vote constituents wishes first.

I could argue people should be consulted on policies take these latest crazy policies should we not have a say. Some will say you vote the manifesto but whats to stop party changing it. Many either vote on one issue or the party.

So therefore we should as nation shape polices it would then be sense of involvement rather than we told we going to do this to hell with your views.

It certainly prevent crazy policies being put through.

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

You appear to be confusing our representative democracy with a delegated democracy....

How would the delegated democracy work - every time there was a vote in the House, would the MP have to go back to the constituency and hold a ballot amongst the voters?

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

yes only national issues should be voted by polititians like war etc.

Policy issues should be part of a democracy of the people.

At least then people have the right to say no or yes. Infact would say people might just be more interested to vote if they had power.

It should never be upto 1 individual who gets bullied to tow the party line. We also should have the right to vote them out too. Mandate to remove polititians who not do what the people voted him in for. MP's should be more accountable to there actions more.

Power to the people

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

You do realise there are usually 130-150 divisions (voting calls) in the House of Commons each year - how would that many votes be held in each constituency, and how would you suggest it was done in a cost-effective manner in the 646 constituencies?

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

catagorise them. Many which dont really have national implecations could be voted by MP. However if there link to particular constituency they get vote on it.

Major policies should be voted by us the people. ALL these policies which major gets voted either during council elections or at election time. It could easily be done surely dont think anybody in right mind would be against it. If we can find funds for referendums on constitution. Find euro voting for MEP, the planned police comissioner then we can do it for catagory A level major policies. Onbudsman independant arbitory will delegate which policies should be voted on by us. MP's or government would therefore not be allowed to dictate which we can vote to ensure no corrupting.

Its argumentive that all manefesto's should be voted during election. Allowing us to choose party then policy of all parties. Serving government forced to enact our wishes whether its there policy or not.

Hugh honest it can be done with little thought.

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

Be careful what you wish for.....

Benefit cuts

Spending cuts

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

Why don't you ask the CEOs during their holidays in Monaco?

---------- Post added at 06:10 ---------- Previous post was at 06:02 ----------

What the government should be doing is that insted of having a go at Public Sector workers and MPs, they should force the private sector to offer the same standards as the public sector, also they should also deregulate Unions as well, if they are going to do the same to businesses

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

More waffle

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

And l thought he had gone on a permanent holiday to Mars.:)

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

If only that was the case.

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

I thought he had been arrested...only a matter of time:D

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

Can they arrest the tax evaders and avoiders first before they come to me :mad:

---------- Post added at 06:30 ---------- Previous post was at 06:29 ----------

I meant offer better pay and conditions and deregulate unions (i.e. scrap anti-trade union laws)[COLOR="Silver"]

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

So it's ok for you to cost the tax payers, as well as businesses millions, due to inciting rioting, and other acts of violence is it???

I am a trade union member, but I wouldn't want it to go back to what it was like in the 70's when the unions had far too much power.

I have a friend who went to the USA a few years ago to set up a specialist haulage company. But due to the unions refusing to let people multi task. The company folded, and they all lost their jobs...good old unions eh?

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

All I have said is thar radical reform is needed by any means, how it can be done is up to whoever reads this article, I am not targeting small businesses, but the poltical and weathy elite and the governments they back.

What happened in the 70s was not the trade unions fault, they were the side effects of the problem, most trade union members want decent pay and conditions (some did want left wing poltical change), but it is clear to see what has happened due to weakened union power.

My point is that if the government is no longer willing to represent the working people of the UK (and only the business, poltical and rich elite), then we need organisations like trade unions to represent our interests as well

If I was running a union, yes I would except changes to the workplace try to help the businesses in times like these, but not at the long term expence of our members and not without their consent

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

And by any means you have made it quite clear what you mean....violence, rioting, terrorism, and murder!

I see your facebook page has also been shut down, probably due to your extremist posts.

Now stop tring to move all the topics towards your political agenda, and let us get back on topic.

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

the main one been its anti growth.

---------- Post added at 09:59 ---------- Previous post was at 09:54 ----------

by increase the private sector pay rates?

adding a postcode lottery to job pay in the public sector is bad for growth but I do also agree with the point its bad as well for other reasons already stated such as.

attracting decent staff to poor areas, like good GPs and teachers.
people doing the same work but for different levels of pay based on where they live. I think its more likely to be based on the companys address tho, so it may be possible someone will live in an expensive area but travel to a poor located workplace. So it may force people to move to poorer areas.

So in affect it will make rundown areas even worse and good areas better widening poor/rich gap.

---------- Post added at 10:00 ---------- Previous post was at 09:59 ----------

I think the way they acting now they expecting to not be reelected so as such dont care about their public image and are just pushing through everything the tory donaters want (the rich want).


---------- Post added at 10:05 ---------- Previous post was at 10:01 ----------

people can be easily manipulated when the media backs government.

also proven with the voting referendum.

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

And reduce competitiveness in those areas? That would lead to massive closures and job losses.

Why is it a postcode lottery? If there are variations in the private sector, why can't those variations be reflected in the public sector. Having higher effective rates of pay doesn't guarantee better GPs and teachers. Why should those in the more expensive areas lose out on the supposedly better staff? Why should someone in the PUBLIC SECTOR be subsided to live in a more expensive area and yet work in a cheaper area?

How could it make run-down areas worse? If more people with jobs move into those areas, wouldn't that reverse any decline?

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

The trouble is that they are unlikely to increase anybodys pay, and it is just a costcutting excercise.

In my profession, if I worked 20 miles down the road I would earn an extra £6000 London weighting. If I worked 10 miles down the road I would earn and extra £550 as fringe London weighting. If I worked in my old home town in West Yorkshire I would earn the same as I do now, but I would be better off due to the cost of living, by anything between £4000 and £6000. The area where I work is an extremely expensive part of the country, yet in real terms we are probably in the worst financial position....but do you think the wages would go up in my area to compensate?....I don't think so.

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

the variations in the private sector however could also be accounted for different jobs for different companies tho.

with GPs, teachers etc. they working for the same employer doing the same work.

its nothing to do with subsidies but more to do with the private sector changing its priorities from salary levels to profit.

the only reasonings for this policy is probably company owners using their joke of a minister hotlines ringing up to complain their employees want pay rises (how dare they) and its harder to turn them down when the public sector pays better. Also the good old saving money as I suspect there will be a net saving from it.

Its funny how you consider it a subsidy, I wonder how much cash is going to the private sector from the NHS contracts and th high speed rail work.

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

No they don't. They work for the local authority or the local Primary Care Trust.

---------- Post added at 13:57 ---------- Previous post was at 13:50 ----------

I think the idea is that some areas will get smaller increases, because they are effectively being overpaid at the moment. Areas like London and the South East will still get pay increases.

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

But nobody in the public sector are getting increases, and haven't done for 3 years.

In real terms public sector employees are in general paid less than the private sector. So for example a teacher or doctor in Yorkshire would still be paid more in the private sector. And in London they would be paid far more in the private sector.

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

Doctors are not the biggest group of public sector employees. It is absurd to use them as a general example.:rolleyes:

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

I used doctors and teachers because their jobs are more or less the same in the private and public sectors. I could also add firefighters and nurses to the list if you want, with the same results. In fact the only direct private comparrison to public sector firefighters would be airport firefighters, who I believe on average earn roughly 25% more.

Many public sector jobs have now gone to private contractors, who make a profit, and then pay very low wages. But this now puts those workers in the private sector.

You have to remember that many statistics are manipulated to fit in with the governments agenda, so don't take them too seriously. An example is how they reduced the number of fire death statistics. Now someone who dies in a fire that was started through arson, is not listed as a fire death, but as a murder. And someone who gets drunk, then passes out leaving their chip pan on, is listed as alocohol related, and not a fire death. Then someone who has a fire, and calls the fire service, but manages to knock the fire down themselves. If there are no visible flames on arrival of the fire service (even if it is still smoldering), this isn't put down as a fire.

There may be exceptions, but in general for long term employment it is well known that public sector jobs pay less. Although during a recession, businesses whos profits are down, may pay lower wages. But this usually changes as the economy improves, and unemployment drops.

By the way, it is illegal to pay men and women different pay rates just based on sex.

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

so if the vote goes one way, it's democracy in action - if it goes the other way, it's manipulation.....;)

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

also how are these wage comparisons working.

is it private sector doctor vs public sector doctor.

or is it private sector mass employed mcdonalds staff, some tesco shelf stackers vs private sector doctors, teachers etc?

---------- Post added at 15:33 ---------- Previous post was at 15:32 ----------

given recent voting history over the past few decades I would say its media manipulation whatever way it goes.

what answer was you expecting?

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

Sort of yes!

Don't you remember that the Sun was a tory paper in the 80's, spouting tory propoganda. Then when the tories started to lose popularity, the Sun switched to Labour, spouting Labour propoganda.

Many peole will believe what they read in the papers.

All governments manipulate the press when it suits them. An example is in the fire service pay dispute in 2003. The government put a block on the press reporting anything that put firefighters in a good light. When you think that normally local papers will report on a bin fire. But during the dispute, a 2 year old boy and his mother were rescued from a house fire in Stevenage. They both only just survived by the skin of their teeth, but this didn't even get a mention in the local press.

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

You're cherry picking certain occupations which do not have widespread private employment equivalents. You're missing out large chunks like the clerical staff, cleaners, etc. Where are the Institute for Fiscal Studies(ie not the Government) getting their figures from?

When jobs are transferred from the public to the private sector, pay and conditions have to remain the same, under the Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment) Regulations 2006 (SI 2006/246).

Why the reference to equal pay? I didn't highlight the 'male public sector workers' bit solely because if refers to men. It is a quote from the IFS report as reported on the BBC news website. What it indicates is that female public sector workers in the South East are paid more than their equivalent private sector jobs.

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

The local press were probably too busy reporting on government censorship of the free press :rolleyes:

Honestly Tim i think if the government where blocking press stories of any kind so they appeared in a good light it would make headlines in the national press never mind local rags

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

It's all very well being sarcastic. But I'm not paranoid, this does actually happen on a regular basis.

Don't be nieve. This is a well known practice, and there is even a name for the process, but I can't remember what it is called at the moment.

---------- Post added at 16:45 ---------- Previous post was at 16:42 ----------

I'm not cherry picking at all. Many admin and cleaning staff are now employed by public contractors. And if the contractors paid the same wages, then where would the financial saving be??? The contractor still has to make a profit.

Do you really think that the government doesn't have any influence over IFS reports?? :rolleyes:

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

So you are maintaining that the government ,on a regular basis, block stories because they will make the government look bad ?:shocked::shocked:.If that is the case then can i please have some evidence so i can sell it to the Mail ,we can go halfers if you want

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

One would be a bit naive to think top ministers dont have direct lines to editors/journalists of newspapers etc.

cameron even went horse riding with the CEO of the NOTW.

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

That's not was has been suggested ,going riding with a ceo is completely different to blocking stories and interfering with the freedom of the press

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

So they block stories in papers about firefighters, but don't block stories about Tory Treasurers asking for £250,000 for access to the PM?

The phrase you were looking for, Tim, was 'DA Notice'* (which is for items of National Security, not house fires.....).

*used to be 'D' Notice

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

It is know as a D-Notice.

It is supposed to be used for national security only, but is often abused for political reasons, especially industrial disputes on a national level.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DA-Notice

And unfortunately the Mail will be very aware of the system. So no dosh for us two I'm afraid

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

If they're doing that, they're making a real hash of it aren't they........ :D

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

It is used for political reasons, as I mentioned above.

They probably made a very dodgy link to it being a national security issue, as the army were using the green godesses during that dispute.

---------- Post added at 09:33 ---------- Previous post was at 09:31 ----------

Why, are you thinking of putting your head in the oven? :D

---------- Post added at 09:36 ---------- Previous post was at 09:33 ----------

There would legally be a huge difference between it being used for a big cover up, and it being used to ask the media to not report any stories that could make members of a particular union look good.....one would probably be illegal, and could lead to a huge scandal. The other probably wouldn't be noticed.

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

So members of the NUJ and Amicus wouldn't object to stories about another union being spiked/suppressed?

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

whilst its quite obvious stories get blocked probably from time to time its also obvious that not every single bad story would be blocked. However its feasible eg. a minister may ring an editor of a newspaper to explain they think if a certian story was pubished it would negatively impact the country so for the sake of national interests it shouldnt be published. eg. to help push certian political agendas.

its not just political either there is harry redknapp football manager who gets on well with the press who probably have lots on him but choose to not publish it to keep that good relationship going, although if he became england manager it would probably all come out if england do badly and they want him sacked.

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

you're talking about a personal agreement between 2 individuals ,minister /editor or celebrity/editor ,we are talking about the government forceably blocking stories so as not to appear badly totally different things and totally against the idea of free press ,it's a ridiculous suggestion

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

Senior management in the media are rarely members of the NUJ. And they are the ones who get the pressure from the government.

And national press journalists aren't well known for their compassion and understanding for others are they?

---------- Post added at 15:50 ---------- Previous post was at 15:43 ----------

No we aren't. Read the link and you will see that it is supposed voluntary agreement. However I'm sure it would be made clear that a mutual back scratching agreement should be made.

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

I know what the link says but that isn't what you said ,you have stated that the government block reports which doesn't sound very voluntary to me

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

It's not a legal block. But when a government minister says that they don't want you to report something, then believe me, unless it is a huge news story it would be in the business interest to follow their withes. Otherwise investigations may start into dodgy reporting practices, that may otherwise be ignored.

If it is a big story of national interest, and it came out that the government had tried to hush it up, then the poo could really hit the fan. But with a story about a mother and child being rescued from a fire, then nobody cares if it isn't reported.

And if you don't believe me, then do a bit of research. It was during the pay dispute in 2003 (if I remember right). And see if you can find any story about a mother and a two year old child being saved in Stevenage.

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

I wonder how these stories made it past the censor....

http://www.thecomet.net/news/woman_a...omes_1_1080358 (woman and child rescued by fire service)

http://www.thecomet.net/news/stevena...tack_1_1111288 (woman and two children rescued by fire service)

---------- Post added at 18:51 ---------- Previous post was at 18:39 ----------

But the people who write the stories are - do you really believe that this sort of thing would not be publicised by journalist on blogs/forums/etc?

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

Probably because both of those were in 2011. The dispute was in 2003!!!:rolleyes:

Yes they may be. But that isn't national press that is read or viewed by millions.

It isn't a gagging order, it's just a request to not report on certain stories.

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

So the D-Notice was only happening during the dispute?

That point wasn't clear.

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

Well this one made it past any 'censor'.

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

so this has gone from the government "blocking" stories to a request .Have you considered that the local press may have considered the story not newsworthy ,i mean a headline that reads "mother and son saved firemen do their job" isn't that news worthy is it ,it happens all the time ,every day in fact

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

There a couple like this and this from the time of the strike, but I am sure there will be a reason why they got past the D-Notice....;)

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

Sorry if I didn't make that clear. But that was the whole point of what I was saying.

They don't put a D-Notice on making us look good most of the time, because as the fire service is part of the public sector it makes them look good to say to the public 'look what a great fire service we have created'. In fact just before the dispute in 2003, they were just about to release a report saying that the fire service was the most efficient of all public services. But they soon put a stop to that being released.

---------- Post added at 21:30 ---------- Previous post was at 21:29 ----------

And that's because they want stories like that released because it puts the unions in a bad light.

---------- Post added at 21:37 ---------- Previous post was at 21:30 ----------

You really need to know your subject before you comment.

Local newspapers will report on wheelie bin fires, and ducklings being rescued. On lighter news days a 2 year old and his mother being rescued from a house fire would actually make national news.

And no it doesn't happen on a daily basis...thankfully. The same as firefighters being killed on duty (doing their job for the safety of others), doesn't happen on a regular basis either...but it does happen far too often. And it happens more often now than at any time since the second world war.

As I said, a request using a D-Notice is as good as a block, if you look into other possible implications if they don't comply.

---------- Post added at 21:40 ---------- Previous post was at 21:37 ----------

The first one was more of a comedy story, rather than making people believe that firefighters were deserving of the pay rise they were after.

The second on was from earlier this month. There is no D-Notice in place at the moment.

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

Tim ,i suggest you read up on DA notices and find out how they work before you dig the hole your in any deeper.The government can't issue a DA notice without putting it through a committee made up of a few civil servants ,the associate editor of Sky News and currently 14 editors and executives from the media including Google ,not one single member of the government sits on the committee .So if you think that all those media representatives would allow the government to use a system that is only to be used to prevent sensitive material getting into the public domain be used on a poxy little story about firemen saving a mother and child from a house fire in stevenage then you are more deluded than captain deluded who lives on the planet deluded

you may wish to read this http://www.dnotice.org.uk/faqs.htm#5

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

You really are very nieve about how governments operate :rolleyes: