Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

....against fine for turning away a gay couple.

From the Guardian.

"Court of appeal judges uphold ruling that Peter and Hazelmary Bull acted unlawfully by refusing to let gay couple stay"

More here.

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

It is stories like this that make me proud I summoned the strength to just walk away from a quite successful business venture I had worked hard for several years to put together having later discovered my gay associates where not suitable and that as is often the case had ulterior motives they had concealed from me. I have to say I am glad today I made that decision as criminal cases past present and future will be an ongoing situation from my ordeal once I realised I was being both used and bought. I will never work for or with or serve such like minded people again period, I would prefer to spend whats left in solitary confinement than bow down to those who encourage such behaviour amongst men especially to the younger generation wether below the age of consent or not.

This is a clear breach of article 9 of the human rights act, these people have had that right denied to them by the law in their place of business of which I hasten to add is a business that is often also ones home.

The law has violated these peoples right to moral conscience regardless of its foundation within their home and business and I dont doubt as a consequence placed them in a position of serious personal and economical compromise.

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

Eh what?

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

Yeah Nitro I have to agree can't make sense of your post?

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

I think he dislikes gay people.

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

So you had a bad business experience because your business partners were gay???? Well take away the gay part, and lets just say they had ulterior motives.

You can rufuse admission to someone if there is good reason to believe that they will in some way affect your business, for example by maybe damaging or stealing your property, or disturbing other guests. This is why many B&B's don't allow large same sex groups in places where stag and hen weekends are popular.

However there is no evidence to suggest that someones sexuallity is going to cause any harm to a business. It was clearly a simple case of predjudice.

I have also had a bad business experience with a business partner who was gay. But the problem was nothing at all to do with his sexuallity.

---------- Post added at 13:57 ---------- Previous post was at 13:56 ----------

What makes you think that? ;)

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

Somebody did something bad to him, so everyone else like the person who did the bad thing are equally guilty.

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

Dunno. Call it a hunch...

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

What puzzles me is a shop or club can refuse to serve you or let you enter, and you cannot do squat.

But a B&B cannot.

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

They can, it just has to be a valid reason, of which, 'because you are gay' is not one of them

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

I know. it's not as if they're going to insist everything has to be pink.

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

The law doesn't say you have the right to discriminate. There is no excuse for homophobia.

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

Nice to see an enlightened viewpoint.

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

I struggle to get my head around why there is so much support for gay people these days yet so little support for religious expression citing it as outdated etc. Surely if you support people's rights to express themselves sexually then you should also support people's rights for religious expression?

Obviously there will be people who support both but there is a vocal bias towards this even on this site.

I don't know the details of the above case but if someone wishes to not allow potential customers into their own home for a reason that conflicts with their own values then I fully understand them. Just like I would if they didn't allow teenage drunks or smokers or "no dogs" etc.

The thing I don't agree with is persecuting those individuals for their lifestyles.

Should bouncers allow anyone in to their nightclubs? Should the gents be open to ladies?

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

From my personal viewpoint, I am not supporting gay rights, I am supporting equal rights.

People should not be discriminated against for their gender, sexuality, race, disability, or religion - this should not be confused/conflated with not allowing drunken troublemakers into a nightclub.

If someone stated that I, as a member of the CofE, was not allowed into a hotel because of my beliefs, I bet there would be outrage because of that - there should (imho) the same outrage if people are not allowed in due to their sexuality, gender, etc etc.

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

It's got nothing to with 'Gay Rights' as such, it's about equality.

The B&B owners said they didn't allow unmarried couples to share a double bed which personally wouldn't fall foul of any laws as long as you apply it equally - however the gay couple were civil partners, which currently is as close as you can get in the UK to marriage for same sex couples. As far as I understand it, because they were then treated differently, that was the issue.

Bouncers can't discrimitate by sexuality, age, or colour, so why should a B&B. Also quite a lot of clubs and other venues these days operate mixed toilet facilities

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

It's not about support for any group, because that would be saying that they were different. It's about not discriminating against any group due to race, religion, sex, sexuallity, or disability.

If you advocate discriminating on religious grounds because that person doesn't have the same beliefs as you, then that makes you just ad prejudice as the people with the B&B.

If you are prejudice, then don't run a business where people from all all walks of life will want to visit.

---------- Post added at 17:28 ---------- Previous post was at 17:26 ----------

:clap::clap::clap:

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

No they just make up any excuse to stop you entering.

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

But that's a different thing, and still if you could prove that their justification was hiding a different reason you might still have a case

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

To be fair to the couple, you don't know that. And in some respects, that statement itself is prejudiced

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

A B&B most certainly can. We are a B&B. We don't get many walk-up guests because we're normally full with pre-booked ones, but on the odd occasion when someone just turns up on our doorstep we can, and do, make a decision on whether to let them in based not just on the number of empty rooms available. ;)

I should add, we don't make that decision based on whether they look gay or not. It would have more to do with the possible use of alcohol and, most of all, how late at night it is (we live in a remote spot and have no guarantee that we can discover the identity and home address of someone who just turns up on our doorstep, so are quite likely to have a blanket 'no availability' for people who arrive at 10pm, or young couples who have tried camping in their car, are fed up of it, but then want to haggle over the room rate on the doorstep. Basically, if we have reason to believe they're not going to cherish our lovely room and appreciate everything that makes it worth the price, they're not likely to get a foot in the door).

The Christian couple in question here made the cardinal error of telling the gay couple, truthfully, why they were being refused entry. They gave the couple an avenue for legal redress, because the reason they were given was one disallowed by law. They could simply have refused admission and would have been under no obligation to give any reason whatsoever. The guests might have had a civil claim for expenses suffered as a result of this but given that this sort of thing happens all the time without people going to court I can't see it having ended up this way under those circumstances.

Now, despite pointing all that out, I'm not saying the couple should have lied. That would have been somewhat dodgy from a faith point of view IMO. I also happen to think it is dodgy from a faith point of view that they are rejecting people who do not live a Christian life. That's no way to reach out to a fallen world and it's not the way Jesus operated.

There was a lot of argument when this case was first aired (and another similar to it) over whether the HRA was being used to over-ride someone's right to religious freedom or family life. We got into a lot of detail over whether a small B&B, which for fire and food safety purposes is not treated as business purposes, was therefore a private dwelling where the owner's religious preferences are sacrosanct. Clearly, the court and the appeal court have determined that a B&B, guest house or inn, no matter how small, is operating as a business and therefore has to follow anti-discrimination laws just as any other business does.

---------- Post added at 18:56 ---------- Previous post was at 18:50 ----------

Don't put the cart before the horse. Everybody is brought up with a certain moral code. Religion isn't a cover for prejudice, it's the source of morality for a great many people, and not just those that actively practice the religion.

People don't think, "I don't like that, and I can use my religion as an excuse for not liking it". They think, "My religion teaches me that this is wrong - therefore I don't like it".

This is not a semantic difference, it's a crucial one. It's all very well railing against religious people from the safety of your keyboard, especially on a forum where you feel comfortable that the majority will agree with you, but the fact is, we all need to get along out there in the big wide world, yet the view you have expressed here, IMO, is not just prejudice but teetering on the brink of outright intolerance.

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

Didn't they also have a notice on their website saying that they only allowed married couples, or am I confusing this case with something else?

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

There were a couple of similar cases around at the same time, I don't remember which one this was. They may well have done, and in one of the cases there was some suggestion that this was a 'sting' operation by a gay rights group which planned to fund a civil court action if, as they expected, the couple were turned away.

Despite any and all of this, I simply point out that Jesus never erected a banner over his pitch, whenever he stopped to preach or to heal, insisting that only people whose morals he approved of could stop by.

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

He just got his disciples to mingle and usher them away without attracting too much attention :)

Have you ever turned away a known gay couple due to other reasons?

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

As of right now, we have only got a double room. We have had people stay who we knew to be gay and it never occurred to us to turn them away.

We have also had Mormons, Jews and Muslims. We never turned any of them away either. Why would we?

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

Because you said this earlier.
Was there any gay people when Jesus was alive?

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

I also said, in the very next paragraph:

... though I appreciate that post may have had too many words in it for you to read to the end. ;)

Yes.

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

So I'll ask again, and so we don't go backwards and forwards.. you said you can and do. so have you ever turned away a gay couple for any of the reasons you say you can and do turn people away for? :)

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

Does it matter if they were not turned away for being gay but for one of the other mentioned reasons?

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

I have absolutely no idea whether any of the people we have declined to put up in our B&B were gay ... had we known, it would have made no difference to our decision one way or the other. We turn people away if they arrive too late at night, if they look like they might cause trouble, or if they try to haggle the room rate (because we're not a commodity - we're only interested in having people here who want to be here, not people who are just looking for a cheap bed for the night).

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

It might do.

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

No, it really wouldn't. Gary, in all seriousness I think the concepts under discussion here may be a tad beyond you.

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

Ok. I'll go and do the washing up then :(

I just realised I only had the mug to wash.

it might matter if a gay couple were turned away for another reason other than being gay, because they may look at it that the person was just using that as an excuse.

it was their own fault for giving the real reason.

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

In the article it says the couple where turned away for being unmarried ,acording to the owners it was the unmarried bit they objected to so i am struggling to understand how they make a living given the number of unmarried couples out there who have weekends away

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

haha yeah, that's a point :)

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

And Gary derails another thread...:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

Well yes, they might claim that. Anyone can claim anything they like. Fortunately, in this country, courts do not convict (or in this civil case, hold liable) without evidence. That's the subtle point that you can't, or won't, understand.

The evidence would be a statement on the website advertising a policy that is illegal under UK discrimination laws, or the owners telling a gay couple to their face that they can't have a room because they are gay. Not the couple in question offering an opinion on the 'real' reason they were turned away.

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

It's a rant Jim, but not so we can understand it.....:D

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-19991266

Judge rules that they were discriminated against and ordered damages

:clap:

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

I don't get it.

So how was she discriminating against their sexuality?

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

The orignal news report stated "She admitted she did turn the couple away because it was against her policy to accommodate same sex couples. "

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

Does it say that though? From my limited knowledge of this case (happy to be proven wrong) it seems she refused them a double room and they chose (albeit dramatically) to leave.

It would seem she has done the same with unmarried hetro couples.

---------- Post added at 13:58 ---------- Previous post was at 13:55 ----------

That makes a bit more sense then. I can see how some would consider this a victory (and to an extent I agree) but it does present a worrying precedent of how someone's beliefs can be legally overruled.

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

Sorry. I deleted my post after spotting that. I don't really have time to read the article now, so I'll refrain from commenting for now :angel:

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

Been through the BBC new articles on the matter and at no point did it say that she gave them any other room option.. Anyone got a link? Just that yes it does seem strange if she gave them the option of two singles but I can't find that she did??

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

You might have to read the court transcripts? The reporting on this is poor.

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

I think the reporting depends on the agenda of the publication.

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

The BBC, Guardian and Telegraph are all quite similar. I suspect it's based of the same report and syndicated across the sites with minor changes. We might see more in-depth reporting tonight/tomorrow.

---------- Post added at 17:31 ---------- Previous post was at 17:18 ----------

It appears Nick Griffin has tweeted part of the address of the gay couple in question and said they're going up there to stage a 'demo'.

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

Oh it's nice to see he's spreading the hate a bit. Not nice to think he was reserving it for non-whites only.

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

One could argue that the B&B owners religious beliefs are being Discriminated against aswell.

Personally live and let live.

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

The rest of Nick Griffin's tweet.

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

I have to admit, Nick Griffin's command of his native tongue is...

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

Had his account suspended apparently

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/media/ne...e-address.html

Makes me wonder why twitter let people like Alan Fry carry on using the service.

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

Surely that's a hate crime by Griffin?

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

I am not sure. I think it must come under something to do with threatening/menacing communications....

The last few gasps of a dying party.

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

One could argue that it's a straw-man argument to argue that it is discriminatory not to be allowed to be discriminatory...;)

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

I'd say so. Definate potential for a charge under the communications act. It would be a pish charge but I've seen charges for less.

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

If the party died along with all it's members, the world would be a much better place. ;)

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

You've become rather attached to the straw man haven't you Hugh?

As we don't live in America, but in the UK, the correct terminology is "Aunt Sally" ;)

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

a) I am not attached to them, I was pointing out that others may be using them - big difference; but then again, logic, reason, thinking things through and you are usually non-contiguous
b) "Aunt Sally"? Bless... I'll just go get my smoking jacket, and ask the staff to prepare the kedgeree.

fwiw, if one should search on 'aunt+sally' on CF, you get 13 results* - should one search on 'straw+man', it shows 200 results (there are probably more, but the search is limited to 200) - perhaps the usage is more prevalent than you realise...

*of which, only 1 (besides our two posts) uses it in the context you have put forward...;)

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

Such a shame that being committed to religious beliefs the way they did has cost them so much.

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

Hard to justify being a Christian and prejudiced though.Apart from that, what they choose to practice and who they let into their own home is up to them ,but a place of business is subject to laws that trump personal or religious beliefs

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

They were being prejudice against unmarried couples. It's the media (and gay rights pressure groups) that turned it in to something else.

They would have refused accommodation to an unmarried straight couple too but you don't hear anyone banging on about that. Doesn't make the same kind of impact in headlines.

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

even from a business standpoint they where daft.Society has changed a lot ,unmarried couples ,gay couples are the norm nowadays so if they can't allow their business to move with the times then they are bound to fail

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

Neither you or I can comment with any certainty as to whether their policy had affected their business before all this kicked off - I can only presume that it hadn't.

The point I'm making was this was jumped on by Tatchel-esque idiots as "another example of homophobia" as if they had a "No gays, everyone else welcome" policy.

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

Countless believers in different places, right down through history, would disagree with you.

There are tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of Christians in China right now who are breaking the law by attending underground churches that are not sanctioned by the Communist party. They do this because they find the Chinese state's restrictions on the full expression of their faith to be intolerable. A similar situation existed in the Soviet Union.

Christians have been breaking the law for their faith for as long as there have been Christians, and the further our own society travels from its broadly Christian outlook, the more it will happen here too.

As it happens, I believe this couple's actions to have been wrongheaded, even if they were sincere. It is possible to welcome someone who you believe to be living in an immoral way, without condoning the way they live. Jesus did so frequently, always welcoming, never compromising. Nevertheless, I think our lawmakers have overstepped a mark, in that they have seen fit to over-rule a homeowner's own rules of conduct for their guests (guest houses very often are still private homes).

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

Perhaps if they had made it clear what their stance about unmarried couples was on all their business literature then maybe,just maybe the whole situation wouldn't have happened.

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

I agree. I can't help wondering how they would have enforced it though. And if they'd enforced it, would they only just be going out of business now? Easily fewer than half of the couples that we have staying with us are married, if we had a clause saying "married couples only please" we'd be out of business in one season. Maybe that's what's happened here - they have finally got what they said they wanted.

We have single sex parties often enough, even though we dont have any twin bed rooms, although that is usually because we're on a popular walking route, on a stretch where there is a shortage of accommodation and sometimes people leave it too late to arrange their accommodation, so they end up sharing a bed with their mates. But I honestly couldn't tell if any of those couples w gay or just friends. I can't honestly think of any reason why I would want to know, or any polite way of asking. As a Christian, I'm called to live, and to advocate, the life Jesus called us to live, but not to give third parties a moral check list before I'll have anything to do with them.

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

Asking for marriage certificate..

Personally I think that eventually they were on a hiding to nothing to think they could stay in business with that attitude in the 21st century.1950s perhaps but not this side of 2000.

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

It could be that they may have advertised a lot in Christian-orientated magazines or something and word got around in such circles about them?

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

Maybe but even so I can't imagine many Christians explicitly choosing a place that only allowed married couples. I suspect most wouldn't factor such a consideration into their choice of accommodation. Maybe they got some out of solidarity but otherwise it's not the smartest business to run.

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

Trust me, there isn't enough of that sort of business around to fill all your rooms, all year. We experimented with an ad in a Christian holidays brochure this year, we got precisely two enquiries out of it, and zero bookings. We haven't renewed our advert for 2014, much to the disappointment of the publisher, who all but told me he thought it was my duty to support his brochure to prevent it folding.

I don't think there are enough Christians in this country who are minded only to go on holiday to places run by Christians. I suspect anybody who was inclined to do that, would probably be so picky that they would spend their holiday finding fault with their hosts and questioning the standard of their Christian living.

I just don't see how the couple in question here could have had a functioning "marrieds only" policy in their double rooms. There aren't enough married couples any more and there aren't enough Christians who will only book a Christian holiday. I can't help thinking that, accidentally or otherwise, the only times they ended up enforcing their policy, was when it was blatantly obvious the couple couldn't have been married, I.e. when presented with two men or two women.

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

Hmmmm, and I'm pretty sure that fact was not wasted on Stonewall and co.

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

A true Christian that follows the Bible will never accept homosexuality. What I have never understood is why one set of beliefs and rights mean nothing when another set of beliefs and rights do. I wonder if the same result would have ensued if it was an Islamic ran hotel turning the couple away

BTW I am not saying I am a true Christian

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

Nothing like those moral crusaders Stonewall telling other people how to live.

---------- Post added at 14:38 ---------- Previous post was at 14:37 ----------

Someone who accidentally or deliberately misquotes the bible will never accept homosexuality. A true Christian who follows the bible will have nothing against it.

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

lol really?? funny mind you yours is quite a new faith using newer edited versions is it not ? how is Leviticus 18.22 misquoted?

---------- Post added at 14:04 ---------- Previous post was at 13:56 ----------

King James "Thou shall not lie with a man as a woman that is an abomination"

new international version "Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable"

New World translation "“‘You must not lie down with a male in the same way that you lie down with a woman. It is a detestable act"

so how can a true Christian who lives their life by bible teachings console themselves with this? The can come up with excuses as to why they accept it they can say we have moved with the times but at the end of the day they are breaking Gods law by doing so

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

No. You know nothing of my faith.

Read it again. That is homosexual sex, not homosexuality itself.

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

lol I read it fine Russ. I thought you were a born again Russ. If so then I do know a little if not then I guess I am wrong.Before I chose my faith I studied plenty and chose the one that I believed followed the word of God most closely afteral that is what it is all about

Hands up here anyone who believes a Christian homosexual couple does not have sex??? oh and only the new international version mentions sex

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

I'll do the hard work for you then.

The reason the bible speaks against homosexual sex is because it cannot produce children. In biblical times sex was a much more precious and respected act between married couples for the purposes of children.

This is why the bible is equally against adultery. Prostitution is equally frowned upon. If you read scripture it makes no real distinction between gay sex and straight sex outside of marriage.

This is why there is NOTHING mentioned against monogamous homosexual relationships, it's just some people choose to read things in to scripture so it fits an agenda.

All of them relate to homosexual sex, not homosexuality.

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

lol Morality is still the same today as it was back then the fact immorality is accepted today is not a plus point to todays society

I put it to you that the hard work is in fact staying moral in a world full of immorality and the easy work is to make allowances for said immorality at the expense of principles. I failed to live a moral life so I no longer participate in the faith I found closest to Gods word. I will not make allowances and say its ok to sin because when my day of judgement comes I do not want to be seen as a hypocrite

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

I've not said it is, I'm just debunking the common misconception that the bible is against gays.

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

it is not a misconception it is allowances made to move with society

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

It is a misconception. Read it in context with the rest of the passages those lines appear in.

In biblical times to "lay" or to "have relations" with someone meant sex. It's the same in any version or translation you wish to offer.

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

so again I ask you how many homosexual couples abstain from sex if they do it does not apply ( from your point of view) if they do not and have intercourse they it does apply

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

OK that doesn't make much sense but I'll try to pick the bones out of it.

Not all homosexuals have gay sex. Just because someone is gay does not mean they have sex. Being straight does not guarantee you some action on a friday night.

Looking in to it with an open mind, much the same would apply to straight couples (married or not) who do the same as gays.

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

as I said morality has not changed what was moral then is moral now as is immorality.

I sin and because I sin I do not taint the places of worship of God most sin and continue to consider themselves righteous

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

Morality has nothing to do with the point I'm making.

In biblical terms those that commit adultery (sex outside of marriage whether straight or in a gay context) are committing a sin. That is what Leviticus is talking about.

OK....

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

it has everything to do with it

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

God loves a sinner that's sorry, apparently...

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

Ok.

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

only if they are really sorry and do not continue to sin after realising their mistake

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

Whatever happened to "Management reserve the right to refuse service"

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

if it upsets someone in the new PC era it does not count

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

They still can ,just not for bigoted reasons

---------- Post added at 15:24 ---------- Previous post was at 15:17 ----------

so refusing to serve someone because they are gay is "PC" ? Your such a hypocrite.In one thread you insist that we should impose western ideals on other countries because they are best and yet some of our ideals that guarantee freedom and fairness you disagree with and say they are "PC"

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

refusing is not PC that is the point I am making

Freedom used to be a Western ideal freedom to be gay if that is what you are and freedom not to agree with homosexuality but one freedom is promoted now the other not

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

refusing to allow a gay couple to stay in a commercial premises because they are gay is discrimination and therefore illegal it's as simple as that ,nothing to do with being PC

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

But if you refuse service to unmarried couples (not simply sharing a room) regardless of sexuality then it should be OK since you are not discriminating. This is the stance of the owners I believe. Trouble is that it's been deemed discriminatory for some reason. If this is the first couple refused service there is no precedent. If part of the reason is also this couple claim that they can't be married so have no opportunity to comply then that's not the fault or failing of the owners either.

It really does seem to be a PC battle with this couple being used to make a point.

Re: Christian B&B owners lose appeal....
 

The gay couple where married or at least in a civil partnership ,which to all intents and purposes is as close to marriage as you can get for gay couples so the discrimination was because they where gay not unmarried