Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

http://seekingalpha.com/article/3525...all-transcript

Am I reading that right?

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

What does the £5 cover?

---------- Post added at 13:02 ---------- Previous post was at 12:44 ----------

Does anyone know what the £5 is for? It obviously not a sub for the record features as no provider charges tv subscribers extra to record anymore. So what exactly does it cover?

If its for wishlists then if I user turns off wishlists do they also get the £5 fee removed? Anyone?

What is the £5 TiVo for? Surely not just to have a EPG...

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

And mine can roll right back !:mad:

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

Is that now £5 per box? Because at the moment I'm paying £3 per account for 2 TiVos. So...if I'm reading that article correctly, when my current contract expires, I'll be paying £7 more per month than I do now.

If that's the case then it will be bye-bye Virgin, cherrio TiVo-Blog, and hello YouView and BT Fibre-Optic broadband. I'm not paying £7 extra for two PVRs which don't even have a dynamic EPG between them.

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

Don't like to say I told you so, but I did.

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/35374024-post99.html
http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/35374988-post245.html

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

i signed up on a retentions deal in November and have been told that my bill will increase by £4.30 come this April.

if that is true then i am receiving the Tivo increase in April

is this right?

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

How much do they think they can charge and still offer value?

VIRGINMEDIA.
Broadband L
TV XL
Phone M
TiVo Service
ESPN

£58.40


SKY

Broadband upto 20Mb
TV Entertainment xtra
Phoneline
Sky+
ESPN

£56.75

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

Looks that way -if the transcript is accurate - will let you know early September when my contract is up!

Cheers

Grim

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

"And in 12 months time, as current TiVo customers roll off their first 12-month contract" doesn't even make sense unless every Tivo customer starts their contract today!

I'm already off my first 12-month contract. So despite previously saying that existing Tivo owners would continue to pay £3, they're going to increase it anyway..

VM in 'no ability to communicate with customers' shocker...

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

Quite simply it says that TV, internet and telephone charges are increasing in April
The additional charge for TiVo was £3, and that has stayed the same for subscribers who are currently in contract period. For new subscribers from April, the additional fee will be £5, and the £5 charge will apply once the 12 month contract has expired.

I certainly don't see that as per box, just simply £2 extra once the 12 month contract is over, but then of course subject to any other additional packages and discounts which might be added.

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

Why wouldn't it be £5 per box?

It will be for new customers from April, why not for existing customers when their contracts expire?

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

Very well spotted, so bill going up £3.50 now, probably go up in August time when they like to stick abit on Phone rental, and then going up £2 in september when i migrate upto £5 charge and they tell me if i want to watch F1 i have to pay an extra 22.50. not happy so for them reasons I'm OUT.

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

LOL. I started a thread to advise customers of this on the support forum. It's been deleted as I've told its SPAM (?) More like they don't want current customers to know.

Fortunately I've managed to add it to the end of another thread. No doubt that will get deleted soon too.

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

I've wanted to change the second box in my VIP50 package to a Tivo for some time but until they sort the red button out I can't as it's my only way of using it.
You watch them roll out the red button on March 1st just as the £5 charge comes in and is per box rather than originally it was per account. :(

---------- Post added at 14:29 ---------- Previous post was at 14:28 ----------

I saw that 1 minute and the next it was gone.
They are not going to be able to keep this quiet so I will post it in other threads also

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

Can anyone explain just what this £5 actually pays for?

Not just TiVo services I mean what are the actual services this £5 pays for?

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

The VM luvvies seem very quiet in here....

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

There going to have to work hard to spin this one.;)

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

TiVo ;) :D

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

What does it matter what the monthy charge is for or if it is for anything at all?

At the end of the day, when you bought the Tiov server you agreed to pay an additional monthy charge.

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

Who is a VM luvvie? :confused:

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

Yeah but what actual services? The Apps anyone can get on a smart-TV or Smart box for free. The recording feature is available on freeview, freesat, for free once you buy the equipment. Recording is free with Sky if you subscribe.

EPG's are free on all platforms they're even built into TV's now with freesat/freeview ect. So again I ask...

What is the £5 paying for?

---------- Post added at 15:49 ---------- Previous post was at 15:48 ----------

Yeah but what actual services? The Apps anyone can get on a smart-TV or Smart box for free. The recording feature is available on freeview, freesat, for free once you buy the equipment. Recording is free with Sky if you subscribe.

EPG's are free on all platforms they're even built into TV's now with freesat/freeview ect. So again I ask...

What is the £5 paying for? This is looking more and more like a case of the Emperors new clothes.

What about on VIP where we don't pay a TiVo subscription fee

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

You've answered your own question, Andrew ;)

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

Now if they get netflix or love films included in the price rise I'd be happy but more needs to come to justify a 66% price increase

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

*people who disagree with your viewpoint....;)

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

and you would defend VM's (not very good) deception over the £5 increase to TiVo for existing customers ? Come on Hugh I thought you were a sensible man.

My post about my post being deleted has been deleted on the support forum (!) ho hum i don't think they like me.......... At least you do ! ;)

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

Er, yeah. I'll assume I'm in the group you're referring to, and I must admit this is becoming increasingly difficult to defend. I can only assume that Virgin are confident that their pricing will remain competitive with Sky come September.

As for the fee, I believe it's for epg services provided by Tribune.

Cue complaints about error ridden, non-dynamic epg.

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

Everything. Neil Berkett, chief executive, said that unlike British Sky Broadcasting's Sky+ box, Virgin Media did not subsidise TiVo.


Economics of a TiVo migrate

Box cost ~ £100

Install cost £40

Monthly rental £5*

…therefore payback in… < 3 years

incremental installation fee £50**

…which reduces payback further…

… but can be waived if the customer has the potential to deliver long term value…

Economics are even stronger for a new customer


* Includes VAT. £4.17 exc VAT. Fee increases to £5 on Feb 28th, 2012

** Includes VAT. £41.67 exc VAT

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

I don't like price rises myself but won't those who had their existing STB relocated for no additional multiroom fee still be saving £1.50/month?

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

https://community.virginmedia.com/t5...-p/1015721#M67

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

That is some good news for you Tivo Guys.

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

Can we all calm down now and chill? :)

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2012/02/19.gif

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

No unless you know where I can get a hair transplant as I pulled mine out reading this thread:D:D:D

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

Are you a VM Luvvie though? :p: :D

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

Yes I have a love/hate relationship? I love everyone but hate them all the same:erm:

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

Please point out where I have defended it*, please..

I just don't feel the need to vent venomous spleen and extremely anti-VM diatribes whenever anything isn't how I want it to be.....

*I tend to wait for confirmation of a proposed rise before reacting, to save embarrassment.

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

What about customers who currently pay £3 per account?

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

We've not been advised it's being changed for existing customers.

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

Thanks.....maybe the CEO should have a chat with the Help & Support Team so they're singing from the same hymn sheet before the Q1 2012 results transcript is released. ;)

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

Well if this happens l can assure you they will feel my disgust from here to head office and l am certainly no luvvie Mr K.:td:

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

People power for the win whoop whoop....

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

Strikes me as being a little bit odd though that Neil B is saying one thing via the q4 results transcript and Mark etc are saying the opposite.

Anyone else a little sceptical here?


Phil

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

You do if you have a second box. Well at least I do.

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

You'd think that the CEO would know what's happening within his own company regarding price plans.....either that or the negative feedback from this thread has changed a few minds in a hastily arranged meeting earlier today at VM! :p:

If we can't trust the man at the top....who can us customers trust? (Media Boy & Digital Fanatic would both get my votes ;)).

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

I don't think a TiVo is worth £60 a year over a v+. Maybe if they made it free on XL like the v+ box I could see it working.

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

I think it's because VM have to pay TiVo per box, but yeah it could be "hidden" in the charges somewhere.

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

I got a letter saying my XL package was going up by £4.70 no Tivo 2 HD boxes also got a deal from retentions which has nearly gone with the price increase

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

Would you pay £5 for a TiVo? I wouldn't, it's better than a v+ no question, but why are we paying £5 or something sky has as standard

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

I will have to very soon :(

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

Sorry to hear that and slightly off thread DF have you found any other employment yet.

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

Not yet, but I'm going to have a break :)

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

Well l am not surprised at that after the way certain workers have been treated and a break usually does people the world of good..

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

Become a tech!

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

Oh nice one.

A couple of days ago I finally decided that I'd had enough of my V+ box becoming unusable at midnight everyday and would ring Virgin to see what kind of deal I could get on having a Tivo box installed and the V+ box moved to another room. Customer Services were very helpful but told me Tivo won't be available in darkest Battersea until April.

I don't think I'm being unreasonable. All I want is a set top box that's fit for purpose and will work when I want to use it. If that's going to cost me a £50 install fee and £5 a month to Virgin I'm afraid I will (much as I hate them)look at what Sky can offer when my current contract ends. Been on cable since Videotron so maybe it might be time for a change

Well the TiVo fee is a good thing and you might wonder why I said that. Virgin give box free, free unlimited repairs, free replacements. sky charge free then full price between £149 - £249 for additional boxes, then after a year £8.95 per month or £69 a call out ( installing / activation charges very )

When you total £3 per account or box is good value, even better if on VIP

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

Have you considered a VHD box ? They really are quite nifty, faster than V+ or TiVo, with none of the issues, nice and quiet too. Ok so you can't record but most stuff is on catch up. Join it up to a freeview hard drive recorder for the perfect solution.

I noticed your message, there was a deadline if you had TiVo ordered by near end of October I was per account and after that its per box, do if your on VIP you will see two charges but it's all worked out and discounted via the £51 VIP discount

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

But you can call to cancel then they give youa new box,

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

I could do I suppose but not being able to record on the box would seem like a real backwards step to me. I'll have to start checking my options in the coming months

I know what you mean but remember we can't compare what virgin do and what sky might do

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

It wasn't only Neil who mentioned the £5 per month fee - one of the other presenters further down also talked about increasing to £5 per month, costing them £3 cost per month (in the spirit of highlighting that the new pricing would increase income). They also drew attention to the fact they had done research and the price rises would not lead to excessive churn. If you can be bothered it is an interesting read.

If you were cynical, you would say their "reserving the right to raise prices but price rises won't affect existing customers" statement gets them out of the negative comments now on here and other discussion boards, and this will be revisited later in the year using their reserved right, as the statement to investors is in all likelihood true (they have the financial year to implement and were probably planning to impliment later in the year anyway!).

MrB

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

Can I just clarify that if someone with TiVo just now paying £3.00 per month, add extra services to their TV package further down the line i.e. go from L TV to XL TV and enter a new 12 month contract, will their TiVo fee remain £3 or will it go up to £5 under the new contract?

Also, based on the info posted on this thread, will current customers paying £3 for TiVo never have a price rise for their service if their contract expires and isn't renewed in anyway? Surely £3 for TiVo won't last for ever...... in fact surely it won't stay that way for even the next 12 to 18 months?

Right how it now works is your TiVo fee will remain at £3 but any new boxes after 27th feb will cost. £5.

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

That's the way I read it. Neil B's speech to investors yesterday wouldn't have been an off the cuff statement, but carefully prepared. Doesn't seem to have convinced them, VM's share price is down 4 % in 10 minutes trading this morning. It's obvious they want to get us all on the £5 TiVo charge at some point. Trying to quash this by issuing 'reserve the right' statements, banning people from their forum and locking threads is a mistake.

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

i think i need to order a new tivo before 27th then but im trying to work out if its worth the extra cost and do i need another one

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

l cannot see how gettiing us all on the £5 TiVo at some point is going to happen Mr K as l have no doubt it would be met by TiVo users with considerable opposition and anger.

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

Would point out that's not what they said:

To me they are talking about the increase to £5 TiVo fee from end of the month - which is why they use words like 'now' and 'immediately'

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

To me the statement .

"Then in addition, every single month, customers will now pay us GBP 5, and we're paying out GBP 3 a month for that TiVo service, over and above what they would pay for the package if they just had a standard DVR".


Means VM are saying that they have to pay £3 for the service so they are not making any money on it for themselves.

So they are upping the price for new customers at some point they are not going to be running a two tier pricing structure so in due course it wil be £5 for everybody.

Especially if it is according to them costing them £3,which is exactly what each customer pays in now.

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

I gave Mr Wilkin the opportunity on the support forum to GUARANTEE there would be no TiVo increase for existing customers this year. I don't think that's a big guarantee to give (if they're sincere). He didn't take up that opportunity.

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

Nope, and they wouldn't do either - because that wasn't what they were clarifying.

The quote from Neil was:

and the clarification was:

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

Thanks for the info Ben, but it's not exactly unambiguous, is it? The quote was that customers paying 3 will migrate to 5. The clarification wasn't a clarification, but in actual fact the opposite of the original quote.

What I can't work out is how Tivo customers got 12 month contracts in the first place!

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

Existing customers taking TiVo have 12 month contracts

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

18 for me-why would that be?

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

Probably connected to the bundle deal you were put on

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

Did you get any other discounts/deal when you got TiVo?

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

I took up the free multi room offer, keeping my v+ hd box which got moved upstairs. Nothing else.

Well it comes to £3 a month, you need to think would you benefit from 2 pvr, think of it as less than 10p a day and TiVo is set to increase maybe more in future, I would save money in future

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

I have never understood why people get all throbbing forehead veins and splodey-headed about price rises.

If they happen on VM, or any other utility or service (except council tax and water, as there is a lack of competition in those areas...), I do two things -

a) check out the competition to see if I can get a better deal from them
b) if not, ask myself (and my better half) if we want/need the amount of services we are getting, and if not, reduce them, but if we do (and can afford it), pay up.

No need to get fraught, upset, annoyed, or very angry, because if one does, you are only upsetting yourself and those around you, as the large companies don't, to put it bluntly, give a toss.

YMMV

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

Indeed - at the end of the day, Virgin Media is a company, not a charity to provide free services. If the TiVo box licence costs them £3, and they're paying £3 to TiVo then they need to increase their margin.

At the end of the day - we're not paying additional for HD channels as Sky charges.

I get annoyed about fuel increases, but it still goes up by leaps and bounds

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

Myself i am not too concerned given that i kept my V+box as a second one for no extra charge,and VM did not charge upfront for the TiVo box or installation all of which i understand cost money and need to be re-couped somewhere.

I just wish VM would be upfront on their plans.:)

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

I am struggling to understand VM TiVo plans, they want everybody on TiVo but they are upping the monthly fee per box:confused:

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

Yes i must admit it is a bit confusing,but as i said i got free install and box on my TiVo so i am guessing VM are trying to re-coup that via the higher charge intially for new customers,but in all probability in the future existing customers as well.

That is the only reason i can think of for the increased TiVo charge being levied.

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

You will probably have a large minority of customers refusing to upgrade to TiVo and stick with their V+ boxes, so VM will long into the future have to support legacy PVR's!

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

Can I just ask a simple question here? What was the charge for the V+ before it was dropped?

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

its always NEW customers what do they do for existing ones???

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

Am sure a few years ago it was £5 we paid before upgrading to XL TV when it then became free?

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

Depends

When the V+HD was first introduced in 2006/7 then the inital costs were low but the monthly fee was £15 on what is now M+ and L and £10 for those on XL.

Then it was changed to drop the fee from £10 to £0 on XL and from £15 to £5 on M+/L. At the same time the inital cost was increased

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

It is the usual suspects that are out to moan. If the price increase was really that bad members would vote with their feet but they won't. They were here moaning last price rise and will be here again next price rise still

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

Thank you,I just thought that I would point out that we were charged before for the boxes. At least it is not the same prices that it was before:erm:

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

I had to pay a migration charge of £75 for my v+ to get rid of the monthly charge it should have been £150 as I was on the old v+ charging system

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

Hi
I phoned retentions just to find out my bill will be going up by £3.50 from April and that tivo will go up from £3 to £5 from end of February for new customers and later in the year £5 for ALL CUSTOMERS
Tivo is good but not worth £3 sub and definitely not worth £5 just to have the record function if this happens and it will
its buy buy virgin hello sky

I'm also not happy that i paid £50 for my tivo 500gig when now customers get a free tivo and instalation they should refund the £50 to previous customers who paid it

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

I am normally one to defend Virgin Media. I still have V+HD boxes and think I will stick with it purely because we can't afford £10 extra a month. I understand Virgin Media are trying to recover the cost of the tivo boxes but think that the extra charge is a disincentive for many people. I think the only way Virgin could get away with this for new tivo owners would be if they let people have them with no installation or setup charges, people who have payed out already for their tivos should have the current price honoured.

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

This has already been covered. The charge to existing customers is not increasing later this year.

http://community.virginmedia.com/t5/...-p/1015721#M67

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

But then again that does not rule out it increasing next year DF does it.:)

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

I'm sure if I'd have asked about any price increase at the beginning of January VM would have given me the same line. There's zero chance of any company informing us of a price increase before it's officially announced.

Now when they do officially announce that it will apply to all customers, they can just say that they've reviewed their prices as they've already reserved the right to do. :)

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

It cannot, because no company will ever state that prices may not ever change.

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

Yes you are right but one suspects that VM as with most companies will have already nearly decided what price rises they have planned for us next year and most customers just wish that companies would explain clearly upfront what is going up and in which area as there are many people who find it hard to get through the maze of different price structures and packages and therefore find it hard to work out what is going up and by how much.

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

Well, we are still planning our pricing structures for 13-14, so if asked, we could not answer that question - so, imho, your assertion that most companies will have already nearly decided may be a sub-optimal interpretation.

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

Staff knew of these rises in January, but we couldn't say anything.

Re: Er...what!!?! (TiVo Service Fee)
 

Ahem anything else you know DF.:D