Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism
 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/...lligent-design

Well that's a victory for common sense. To be clear this is for any schools which receive government funding. I guess schools which receive their funding from other sources could do as they wish, which is kind of worrying. Still, this is a good step.

Re: Governments withdraws funding for Creationism in Science Classes
 

Excellent news.

Re: Governments withdraws funding for Creationism in Science Classes
 

Shouldn't the title be 'Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism'? Right now the title implies that the Government is is specifically funding the teaching of Creationism, which it isn't.

Anyways, good news.

Re: Governments withdraws funding for Creationism in Science Classes
 

i assume it can still be taught as a theory along with the other theories of God which have no scientific evidence .

Re: Governments withdraws funding for Creationism in Science Classes
 

No, it can't - you are confusing Religious Studies with Science.

Re: Governments withdraws funding for Creationism in Science Classes
 

Good point, changed.

Re: Governments withdraws funding for Creationism in Science Classes
 

thanks for the clarification Hugh -its a very confusing subject .

Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism
 

You have to enjoy how this happened with a minimum of fuss. America have a constitutional separation of church and state and this issue still comes up again and again with court battles and people shouting at each other on TV. Here it's pretty much 'yeah, that makes sense' and everyone moves on.

Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism
 

ON average, Americans are a lot more religious than Brits though.

Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism
 

there will still be parents who will move there offspring to schools where this theory can be taught ,its not just going to go away .and it still goes on in the privacy of people homes .

Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism
 

The privacy of people's home is not a Science class.

Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism
 

A refreshing victory for common sense :tu:

Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism
 

but its where the seeds are first sown into the minds of the vulnerable .

Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism
 

Along with Conservatism, Liberalism, Socialism, elitism, dogmatism, laziness, et al.

Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism
 

And a lot more nuttier too. which unfortuantely is part of the problem.

Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism
 

Good stuff, now let's get rid of all government funding for faith schools that don't have open admissions policies, remove their ability to teach as they please within RE rather than having to follow Ofsted rules and not open any free schools that even remotely hint at teaching creationism outside of RE and we're there.

Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism
 

As long as it's not the state paying for it then it's none of our business what they teach within their homes. Privately funded schools? That bothers me slightly because they will grow up with a misunderstanding of science but we can't ban it.

Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism
 

You're confusing, imho, a vociferous minority with normal Americans (but, having a population four to five times the size of the UK's, that's quite a large number...;)).

Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism
 

but if mum and dad teach one thing at home and the school teaches a totally different view where does that leave the poor confused child who is stuck in the middle of this argument ?

Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism
 

That could be said of a number of things (vegetarianism, communism, use of the Oxford comma, supporting Manchester United, etc etc).

Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism
 

but we aren't discussing carrots are we. we are discussing creationism v/s evolution being taught as fact .

Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism
 

And the same could be said about racial abuse, women beating, and thieving.
taught one thing at school and another at home.

we'll take notice at what's being taught at home for some things. but not some others.

it's a no win situation.

Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism
 

Well I can't say I think this has been that much of a problem.How many publicly funded schools teach creationism as a science?

How many proposed free schools are there to beset up by Creationists?

I think this is a storm>teacup issue myself.;)

Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism
 

True ,non of the schools i attended taught creationism and non of either of my sons did ,so if there are any then it is a very small number

Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism
 

from little acorns

Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism
 

The good thing about this is that it's not a storm at all ;)

Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism
 

Only if you give equivalence to discussing religion and things that are criminal offences.

Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism
 

Ok, let me change it so that they don't fall under criminal law.

Disliking skin colours other than your own, disliking women, and selling goods not as described on ebay.

still no good?

see. a no win situation with religion.

Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism
 

Thats true, its amaxing how often 'god' is a part of american tv shows and movies. I think at least 80% of american stuff I watch has it.

Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism
 

You appear to be describing something you know well....

Let me try to decipher your meaning - are you saying that if someone states/tries to bring their children up in line with their own Church of England Christian beliefs, that it is akin to stating to one's children that it is ok to dislike people with different skin colour to one's own, to dislike women, and to defraud customers on eBay?

Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism
 

That's slander.

Yes. unless it's any different to what you said. and you don't assume that the religious teachings/upbringings are let's say as an example, homophobic?

Quote:

That could be said of a number of things (vegetarianism, communism, use of the Oxford comma, supporting Manchester United, etc etc).

Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism
 

Why? I didn't make a false spoken statement.

I try not to assume anything, but I can state for a fact that any religious discussions in our house do not involve, let's say as an example, homophobia (in fact, totally the opposite - our family are very anti-homophobic).

Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism
 

Agreed, it's not like we're in the mid- west of the USA

Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism
 

What the government should also do is shut down faith schools (of all faiths) and repalce them with secular school replacements, they are not right for Britain and they cause a lot of problems, Take Northern Ireland for example!

Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism
 

At last, a sensible comment.

I knew you had it in you.

Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism
 

You are welcome! :angel:

Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism
 

Law of averages, surely?

Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism
 

As a swift update to this thread a number of free schools with 'creationist' undertones have been rejected by the Department for Education from proceeding with their applications.

The concern still remains, of course, that groups on the fringes will continue to attempt to use the free schools system to get this pseudoscience into the classroom despite the funding withdrawal.

For the time being though it looks as though it's being confined to private schools.

Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism
 

Bit of a bump as one of the lunatics running the asylum up here wants to change things about a bit.

http://news.stv.tv/scotland-decides/...ols-no-really/

Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism
 

Back to the middle ages then :rolleyes:

Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism
 

Nothing wrong with it being taught in schools as long as it's alongside Science etc rather than instead of it.

Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism
 

hmmm science and fiction yes they do have a place but its not in education its on the telly one small step for man one giant leap backwards for mankind .

Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism
 

Unsure whether you mean in science classes alongside evolution as an 'alternative' or elsewhere in curriculum.

The funding was removed from schools teaching creationism as an alternative to evolution in science classes. As far as I know the various creation myths, including the Christian one, have always had a place in RE :)

Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism
 

Corrected that for you ;)

Yes, alongside as a separate subject like Maths, English etc. If schools want to put Creationism as part of RE then why not. It's exactly how it was in my Catholic primary and secondary schools.

Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism
 

It was correct the first time ;)

Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism
 

Clarifying, the Creationism causing issues here was I believe young Earth creationism. Hardcore cosmology isn't anywhere in the syllabus and what caused the Big Bang is something we don't make any solid claims on understanding.

When the heads of both the Anglican and Catholic denominations agree Genesis is allegory not theory it seems fair for me to defer to them :)

I would run with the same thoughts on the other world religions too. There is simply too much evidence opposing YEC to consider it anything else and those trying to present it as in any way scientific are, at very best, doing themselves a disservice.

Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism
 

Agreed.

Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism
 

but it makes him feel warm and fuzzy ,if you listen carefully you can hear him purring like a cat ;)

Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism
 

Opinions are like butt-holes remember....

---------- Post added at 19:48 ---------- Previous post was at 19:43 ----------

I see a difference between Creationism and youth Earth Creationism, I favour the former.

Selectively deferring to them then :angel:

You appear to be comparing evidence with belief/theory - I'm not a supporter of Creationism being taught in favour of or replacing science. In fact I don't know of anyone who had that at school (other than the essential atheist collective who will happily tell us the same tales of wild-eyed schoolmasters 'demanding' they believe every word of the bible.....).

Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism
 

As long as it is taught as part of religious studies.

I.e. Some religions believe this, but it's bollocks

THEN, there's nothing wrong with it.

---------- Post added at 19:59 ---------- Previous post was at 19:57 ----------

Theory?

As in unsupported idea theory, or scientific theory?

The two are very different.

---------- Post added at 20:04 ---------- Previous post was at 19:59 ----------

Before anyone spouts out that evolution is a just theory etc, etc blah blah.

Read this first.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_theory

Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism
 

You're the only one who has mentioned it - in fact I'm not sure I've ever heard anyone on CF suggest that.

Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism
 

Nah not really.

Any institution teaching the Accelerated Christian Education curriculum teaches YEC. There are about 50 of those.

Independent Islamic schools, amongst others, will likewise be teaching YEC.

---------- Post added at 20:30 ---------- Previous post was at 20:27 ----------

Absolutely. Anyone who defers to anyone or anything completely either has profound disabilities and is forced to do so by these or is a waste of grey matter. :)

---------- Post added at 20:31 ---------- Previous post was at 20:30 ----------

I have. Completely with quotes from Answers in Genesis as I remember.

No matter.

Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism
 

Neither you or I know enough about teachings in Islamic schools to be able to comment with any authority ;)


Indeed no matter - clearly I was talking about proponents commenting on it.

Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism
 

You forget that I'm a member of an organisation that actively campaigns against such things in state schools and have actively campaigned against faith schools and against teaching of creationism in state funded schools, alongside changing of the inspection regime for all schools, independent and state, hence have a few bits of knowledge on the matter more widely :)

---------- Post added at 23:21 ---------- Previous post was at 23:15 ----------

Said poster was most definitely a proponent of YEC and raised arguments straight out of the AIG playbook to try and undermine the mass of scientific evidence behind evolution and the old Earth model.

This was years ago though. This site has been around a while.

Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism
 

As long as you remember it just your opinion that it's a theory ;)

Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism
 

Said organisation is unbiased and 100% neutral then? ;)

---------- Post added at 07:15 ---------- Previous post was at 07:14 ----------

Of course it's my opinion, who else's opinion would I be giving??

Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism
 

Should it be?

Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism
 

:banghead: :disturbd:

Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism
 

to every one else its a myth ,"a widely held but false belief or idea."

Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism
 

Nope, of course not, but that's the good thing about statements of fact backed with evidence from source, it leaves little room for bias, especially when stating something so binary.

If the criteria for something being considered a 'fact' is that it's presented by an organisation with no bias that's 100% neutral we can pretty much disregard all information presented by a campaign.

If you think the BHA are factually inaccurate I'd highly recommend you let them know. The schools named as using Creationist curricula seem fine with it though given none of them have taken any kind of legal action regarding what would, clearly, be a case of defamation.

Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism
 

You're kind of moving away from the point I was making - my comment was that neither you or I really know enough about the teachings in Islamic schools to be able to speak with proper authority (I hasten to add that's not a dig of any kind) and you being part of a group that actively campaigns against it is hardly likely to give a balanced view. I'm not saying your group is wrong etc but it would be like Dick Dawkins chairing a debate about whether or not Religion is good for you.

If the BHA found some evidence that keeping faith schools or ensuring RE stayed mandatory I'd have to question whether they would publish it so hastily. Maybe they would, but I'm not so sure.

Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism
 

It's a binary statement, Russ. There is no 'balanced view' to be had. Either there are independent schools teaching YEC or there aren't. If they aren't they can sue the BHA for claiming as such and accuse them of faking the evidence indicating they are. They have not.

I'm not moving away in the slightest. I stated a fact and, for some reason, you are trying to say that I am making a point about the teachings in Islamic schools more generally and claiming to be able to speak with 'proper authority'. I wasn't. I merely stated that there are Islamic independent schools teaching the Islamic creation myth as literal scientific fact. Nothing more.

Step back for a moment. The above was all I said on the matter. This is not even remotely controversial on any level, and I'm not going to defend this statement of fact further or try and defend what you think I wrote over the very simple binary premise I actually put forward.

Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism
 

If you've missed the point fine, let's move on.

Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism
 

This is entirely irrelevant to the matter. What charities that campaign don't choose to publish has absolutely no bearing on the accuracy of what they do publish.

However just FYI there is no evidence that, based on the demographics of incoming students, faith schools produce any better results than state schools, and the BHA do not advocate the position that RE should be removed from public schools.

The BHA is secularist, not aggressively anti-religious.

---------- Post added at 15:02 ---------- Previous post was at 14:55 ----------

Actually let's not, this is somewhat ridiculous but still.

Let me help you - this is what I've been responding to.

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2015/01/4.png

So what am I missing? Have I somewhere claimed to be able to comment on teaching in Islamic schools more widely with authority, or are you saying that I am unable to claim that Independent Islamic schools teach YEC despite there being evidence from said schools, themselves, that they do?

EDIT: I should mention that this isn't all of them, by any means. In common with 'mainstream' Christianity 'mainstream' Islam actually believes the Qu'ran is supported by modern science in this regard and that evolution is on the whole quite compatible with their faith. There are, of course, the extremists who disagree and that's the rub there.

Sorry, but you have missed the point by claiming I said something I didn't. I made a very specific, evidence backed claim about such institutions however for some reason you are claiming I made a broader claim and claimed that I have no evidence to back up my original statement.

Russ - I think you misunderstood what I was saying. Let me move onto some evidence.

The below quote refers purely to state schools incidentally:

From the prospectus of a free school and part of the reason for this thread:

As noted above the Islamic mainstream is that Darwinism is not against Islam as they hold to an old Earth view, the Qu'ran not actually covering creation in the depth the Bible does.

Going elsewhere from the Accelerated Christian Education curriculum:

if you feel like having a child indoctrinated with this nonsense here's a non-exhaustive list of schools teaching it.

http://www.christian-education.org/s...ol/uk-schools/

TLDR: Independent schools across multiple faiths can, and do, teach YEC at very least as an alternative to, if not entirely instead of, cosmology, evolution and an old Earth.

These are fundamentalist points of view in their faiths in many cases, and at odds with scholastic interpretations of their holy texts and/or mainstream views and reconciliation of faith with modern science.

Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism
 

Carl - grow up. You're not going to agree with me and I'm not going to agree with you. You've missed my point several times and I'm pretty certainly you'll continue to do so, intentionally or otherwise.

Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism
 

hey watch where your chucking that dummy it nearly hit me

Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism
 

I'll come back to this thread in a few days and see if this part of it makes any more sense. :tu:

Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism
 

So these are all theories? :D

Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism
 

Unfortunately, some of the nuttiest are politicians. This guy denies man made climate change because...

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/at...8&d=1422220179

Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism
 

That's what happens when you go "full retard" :D

Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism
 

Would you Adam and Eve it.