Scrap Heap For Britain's 'Barmy Bin Rules'
 

My local council will fine you for having your bin lid open by only one inch, They even issued the bin men with a handy guage to check with.

So removal of barmy rules and fines is about time.

http://news.sky.com/home/uk-news/article/16149322

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-16564592

Re: Scrap Heap For Britain's 'Barmy Bin Rules'
 

Yes and about time too Sirius in my mind.

Re: Scrap Heap For Britain's 'Barmy Bin Rules'
 

There has to be a catch somewhere. there always is.

I've never understood this thing about getting a discount if you pay a fine early.

if it's a £100 fine for killing somebody, and it's proven that you actually did it beyond any doubt. then why do they let you only pay £50 instead of £100 if you pay it within 14 days?

it sort of makes the punishment a lesser crime.
before you would have thought twice because of the expense it will be. but you can go out and kill 2 for the price of one now.

Re: Scrap Heap For Britain's 'Barmy Bin Rules'
 

Yes Gary lets have fines for murder. :rolleyes: :dunce:

Re: Scrap Heap For Britain's 'Barmy Bin Rules'
 

Don't worry Sirius. the government aren't considering it yet.

but it is silly why they reduce the amount if it's paid early.

If nobody commited the offences then you wouldn't make any money, would you?
we know. that's why we offer discounts.

Re: Scrap Heap For Britain's 'Barmy Bin Rules'
 

From the BBC link

And you can bet that would have increased as councils have there ability to increase the council tax reduced. Here they are increasing the cost of parking, considering charging for you using the waste site, Changing bin collections to once fortnightly in opposition to the government plans.

Basically squeezing every penny they can out of you by any means. Its what i have come to expect from my local Labour council :rolleyes:

Re: Scrap Heap For Britain's 'Barmy Bin Rules'
 

How many of those fines were for fly tippers..Because those are the barstewards I want hung ,drawn and quartered because they are the ones who make our back lanes and parks and verges and open land look a total mess and cost the local councils and us millions each and every year.:mad:

Re: Scrap Heap For Britain's 'Barmy Bin Rules'
 

Well it does say in the qoute the fines were for using the "wrong sacks for recycling or overfilling wheelie bins"

Re: Scrap Heap For Britain's 'Barmy Bin Rules'
 

Well flytippers do tend to chuck their stuff where they see other stuff apparently dumped..but my point is that the local councils do have flytipping to deal with and this maybe what has led to the over zealous nature of the fines.
After all how many times have you seen rubbish dumped alongside legit rubbish at the kerbside and the dustmen won't take it away and then it's sits there for days and others decide to add to it?

Not that I'm saying that the ridiculous nature of some of the fines are right.:erm:

Re: Scrap Heap For Britain's 'Barmy Bin Rules'
 

I see the results of fly tipping as i drive around and its not the best site. If councils reduced the cost of using landfill sites it might reduce some of the fly tipping that occurs. However i only see it increasing as councils look into charging for using waste sites for household rubbish

Re: Scrap Heap For Britain's 'Barmy Bin Rules'
 

I'm glad the stupid fines got binned ,but it didn't give a person a criminal record if they did get fined ;)

Re: Scrap Heap For Britain's 'Barmy Bin Rules'
 

I have to wholeheartedly agree. :clap:

My local council went from a weekly black bag collection and coloured boxes for recycling, which nobody knew when they were to be collected, to 2 huge wheelie bins, one for refuse and one for all dry recyclables collected fortnightly. They also supplied a tiny caddie for food waste that they said would be collected weekly. However they made absolutely no provision for the disabled, elderly or people unable to use wheelie bins due to lack of space, flats etc. They also provided no means of labelling the bins as to what address they belong to as other authorities seem to.

As a result because I could not use the system and despite twice weekly phone calls I had no refuse or recycling collected for 6 weeks. Eventually an occupational therapist got involved and I was issued with bags again :confused: but I now have to live with a fortnightly food waste collection and a back garden full of superfluous wheelie bins.

As for fly tipping, IIRC it costs £12.00 per item to get bulky items, old domestic appliances, furniture ETC, carted off by the council. A bit expensive IMO but you ring up, give all the details and your CC number and wait and wait and wait and nothing ever happens.

The last thing I got disposed of was an old freezer that they finally collected after 3 years or so. It is little wonder that people turn to other contractors who purport to remove rubbish but in reality, probably fly tip it.

BTW and probably nothing to do with anything, but my local extortionists are Tory. I guess the political leanings have nothing much to do with incompetent, self serving councillors and local council madness though.

Re: Scrap Heap For Britain's 'Barmy Bin Rules'
 

Yes ,not paying the penalty would result in a court appearance and a criminal record in much the same way as not paying a parking fine or fixed penalty for speeding

Re: Scrap Heap For Britain's 'Barmy Bin Rules'
 

So my local council has decided to move us to fortnightly refuse collections, they have also said that any excess refuse can be taken to the local tips.

Now here's just how loony my local Labour council is, they are going to charge you £5.00 a visit to the local tip to dispose of excess refuse.

There are going to be a lot of little black bin bags popping up all over the parks and back alleys in Warrington because of this.

Re: Scrap Heap For Britain's 'Barmy Bin Rules'
 

I just jump up and down on the bin till it compacts and get really heavy lol

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Then you find there is a bag left at the bottom that the handy dandy lift on the rubbish cart can't dislodge and the bin men won't remove.:(

Re: Scrap Heap For Britain's 'Barmy Bin Rules'
 

They have another rule here as well and that is if your bin lid is open by more than 1 inch they refuse to empty it and charge you if they have to send a special vehicle out to empty it.. :mad:

Re: Scrap Heap For Britain's 'Barmy Bin Rules'
 

Ours and nearby streets have just got a letter from our council about leaving bins out with rubbish in them .This is as a result of the bins not getting emptied when we had all the snow on the ground ,the drivers where all on gritter duty so couldn't drive the bin wagons because of driver hours .Anyway the bins where left out on the usual day (last thursday) but the bin men did not turn up for the aforementioned reason ,we weren't told they weren't coming and had no idea when they would come so we left them out ,on the wednesday and thursday the following week we had really strong winds which inevitably resulted in the bins being blown all over the place .The bins eventually got emptied a week late ,had we been notified of this when inquiries where made with Envirocall we could have bought the bins back in

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There is a nice picturesque park at the back of my house which i fear will become black binbag central.

Re: Scrap Heap For Britain's 'Barmy Bin Rules'
 

Yep,at least our council have kept visits to the local recycling center as free ,they only charge for commercial dumping.Charging for taking extra bags is only asking for trouble .

I think our council has it backwards as far as bins are concerned we need our fortnightly recycling waste collected every fortnight and the general waste every week it should be the other way around .

Re: Scrap Heap For Britain's 'Barmy Bin Rules'
 

Our council and councilors are a waste of space. All there interested in is fighting amongst themselves and working out what they can charge you extra for.

Re: Scrap Heap For Britain's 'Barmy Bin Rules'
 

To be fair ours isn't too bad ,they are despite the cuts, still keeping pledges made like new windows in the houses even though they are not strictly needed for another 10 yrs and some major investment in run down areas

Re: Scrap Heap For Britain's 'Barmy Bin Rules'
 

Problem here is they are using council tax money to help fund that sort of work to council houses. So if that's the case and I pay council tax why can i not have my windows and boilers funded by the council. Of course they will never agree to it because i am in my own house. Maybe i should get a reduction in my council tax.

Re: Scrap Heap For Britain's 'Barmy Bin Rules'
 

well re. the windows and being a cynic i think it will be justification for a big rent rise next year because ours have been frozen this year ;)

and other investment in run down areas will actually earn the council money

Re: Scrap Heap For Britain's 'Barmy Bin Rules'
 

They used to refuse to take them here too, citing health and safety reasons. Even went as far as saying a binman was seriously hurt when some rubbish fell out of a bit that was overfilled. Yet when they changed to 2 weekly collections to save money, all the bins were massively overflowing but they decided it was now ok to have them overflowing and bin lids open. Every bin around here has been overflowing with open lids every week now since they changed to fortnightly yet they are happy to empty them and not issue fines...go figure ;)

Fly tipping does increase and people will go as far as having one bag for paperwork/identifying information and another that can be dumped with no trail back to them. Unbelievable.

Re: Scrap Heap For Britain's 'Barmy Bin Rules'
 

Thats what i am expecting to happen in the park behind my house. Wonder how much its going to cost them removing dumped rubbish from all the parks and woods ?

Re: Scrap Heap For Britain's 'Barmy Bin Rules'
 

Don't worry it'll just be added to the council tax... :erm:

Re: Scrap Heap For Britain's 'Barmy Bin Rules'
 

along with the cost of litter wardens and cctv to monitor the areas

Re: Scrap Heap For Britain's 'Barmy Bin Rules'
 

So in the end it just costs them more and they don't make any savings.

Re: Scrap Heap For Britain's 'Barmy Bin Rules'
 

In my experience most LA cost cutting exercising do

Re: Scrap Heap For Britain's 'Barmy Bin Rules'
 

This was amusing, I emailed my local council to ask why our recycling and normal household waste wasn't collected during the recent light snowfall.


Dear Sir / Madam,
I write this in frustration with regard to the lack of refuse and recycling collections during the recent inclement weather. The household waste was eventually collected (more than a week late) however the recycling has not. I noticed that throughout the snowy conditions the Postman, paper delivery person and many courier companies were able to continue their work. I would be very appreciative if you could provide a reasonable, and plausible, explanation as to why your contractors were unable to carry out the job that they are paid to do.

I await your response.

Good morning

Thank you for your e-mail.

Our crews were only able to collect from areas that were deemed safe. The service team have heavy duty wheelie bins they collect the refuse from and in some areas this was not possible. I would like to add that when the crews were not collecting refuse/recycling they were out helping Amenity Services gritting the byroads paths for elderly residents of Crawley.

We have been better equipped this year at collecting the refuse/recycling and having grit bags available at designated areas.

I am sorry if you have experienced any delay in the services from the refuse/recycling crews.

Regards

Angie

Re: Scrap Heap For Britain's 'Barmy Bin Rules'
 

You might want to remove your email address, especially in plain text form.

Re: Scrap Heap For Britain's 'Barmy Bin Rules'
 

Seems about right, councils have cut the facilities down that much they cannot cope even with the lightest of snow falls.

Re: Scrap Heap For Britain's 'Barmy Bin Rules'
 

That is one of the reasons .As i mentioned earlier the main reason ours wasn't collected was because the drivers where driving the gritters so where unable to drive the bin wagons because their driving hours would be too high .Usually agency drivers are recruited for the gritters as needed but because of cut backs they now don't use agencies as much

Re: Scrap Heap For Britain's 'Barmy Bin Rules'
 

You can bet the managers and pen pushers have not been cut :mad:

Re: Scrap Heap For Britain's 'Barmy Bin Rules'
 

But in most cases, where's there contract telling them that you agree to there terms of agreement before they hall you to court....... no contract no fine or criminal record, they may try but all you have to do is prove them wrong just but asking three things: (court)

Don't stand up, when everyone else does, sit > no contract
When asked for, stand up but answer, I represent .......(name) > no contract. Tip the crown government owns all our names under the copyright act, so all we are is a number not a name!

Hello, may I see your oath before we start? (have a copy) if they haven't got it they got no power to over see the case, case closed.

Then ask for the contract telling the council you agree to thier term of agreement ..... no contract no power against you.

Have no binding contract with them hence they have no power over you or anybody else. If you asking I have used this twice once a parking fine th other speeding x 3 times, walked out of court as free man no points or fine. The whole contract thing is base on the book law > maga carter what the uk was built on from the very beginning not the current "acts" they try to make us think are law > they illegal uninforcable to any person with knowledge.

Have fun all
Toonlight

Re: Scrap Heap For Britain's 'Barmy Bin Rules'
 

The above post was brought to you courtesy of some very funny herbs, and a lack of knowledge of modern law....

Re: Scrap Heap For Britain's 'Barmy Bin Rules'
 

And then you woke up...

Funnily enough the whole freeman nonsense you get on the Internet is just that. Nonsense.

Re: Scrap Heap For Britain's 'Barmy Bin Rules'
 

I see care in the community is working just fine and dandy :rolleyes:

Re: Scrap Heap For Britain's 'Barmy Bin Rules'
 

It's all true. it's something to do with your name not being yours or something. it's just some name on a piece of paper.

Re: Scrap Heap For Britain's 'Barmy Bin Rules'
 

We are allowed one uplift a year free for heavy items & then £30 for each one after that in South Lanarkshire. It is a disgrace. God knows where all the council tax goes too. We also have to cut the grass in the back greens. We have six people in the block, 3 are disabled. The people in the top are not going to buy a lawnmoor & carry it up & down stairs. Because we are at the bottom & have a garden. we will be left to do this, to keep the place tidy. When I asked the council about this, they had the cheek to say " can your husband cut it & ask the neigbours for money"

Re: Scrap Heap For Britain's 'Barmy Bin Rules'
 

Correction. It's costs US more but creates jobs @ Civic HQ... lol

---------- Post added at 16:57 ---------- Previous post was at 16:55 ----------

Not to mention punctuation. :D

Re: Scrap Heap For Britain's 'Barmy Bin Rules'
 

So you'd pay all there fines & taxes to fund the higher piers life style? You want to be in debt, like paying most of your hard earned wages to the tax man?

Form what I've said works all too good, if you know what your doing martyh but if you like paying all those illegal stealth taxes go ahead but I won't be once I've finished with them holding them to the rules set down from start when the all Magistrates Court where put to the books.

Did you know martyh Magistrates Court can only sentence you but not fine people in the same building? Only the crown court can fine you :shocked: If they try all of there past & present rulings are void including when try to pass that sentence on the person. FACT Try reading up common law buddy & wake up


Yes it's all about the birth certificate, if you don't have one they cannot apply there "corporate act's" law on you, more if you are or have been born in bath road London (scene of the great London fire). For others it about the "The Copyright and Related Rights Regulations 2003 rule".. it basically says the copyright holder own all the rights to all it's property nobody else, so look on your birth certificate see the "crown copyright"
So nobody has name but is just a number on piece of paper, so if the court want to fine you with your name.... they only fining themselves how fu*k up is that.... so the charge is void. Sample >>>> look at bottom hint:
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2013/02/67.jpg

Re: Scrap Heap For Britain's 'Barmy Bin Rules'
 

Daft thing is, if done properly it works well (barring weather).

Alternate weeks household residual waste collected 120 ltr.
Opposite weeks garden waste collected 240 ltr.
Every week food waste 23 ltr
Recycling boxes 55 ltr as many as you need, also collected weekly.

It can be done but you have to provide year planners. :rofl:

Or the smart have weekly e-mails ;)

Re: Scrap Heap For Britain's 'Barmy Bin Rules'
 

Well I have used in real life sorry to say, some are to engrossed in the system way of thinking, pay up....give us all you money........ trust us. Give me a break buddy, believe it or not it does work if set out & presented right.

Once you give in to these modern day light robbers, you'll never be free of them just paying all you money them in mean while, does sound a good deal?
Just don't give me a line of it funds public services; it doesn't wake up all courts are today are place to collect money, rob the public blind to fund the government spending not justice or severing the law of the land. If you don't see this in every cases well you gone past the point of return sorry to say good buddy.:dozey:

Just say no, let them prove you wrong as that's how the law works, your innocent until proven guilty in legal court of law. No evidence no case

Re: Scrap Heap For Britain's 'Barmy Bin Rules'
 

So if they can find a birth certificate for you they can fine you, if not they can't?

The just as important question should be...should I be burning my birth certificate and throwing the ashes out in an overflowing bin with a note attached to the open lid saying :upyours: ?

Re: Scrap Heap For Britain's 'Barmy Bin Rules'
 

Everytime i see one of those videos i want to smack the idiot right in the face with a baseball bat.

---------- Post added at 19:33 ---------- Previous post was at 19:31 ----------

You could try :tu: :)

Re: Scrap Heap For Britain's 'Barmy Bin Rules'
 

Modern law is unenforceable if you stand to your rights good buddy, these "acts" are just corporation laws to repay on added % on the government borrowing from the bankers that puts up all their front money to spend. The real law is common law from the maga carter which only works on contracts nothing else. The only point to included are three things... Hurt Harm Loss which one does one case cover... if not it's not law.

Re: Scrap Heap For Britain's 'Barmy Bin Rules'
 

As a fully paid up drone of the system can I ask you to provide a link to ANY court case in the UK where this defence has been accepted. I can find links where the pseudo legal mumbo jumbo gets someone jailed but none where it's worked

Re: Scrap Heap For Britain's 'Barmy Bin Rules'
 

Well you don't put one forward as you haven't got a name, then point out about the copyright 2003 rule which on the birth certificate, in which the court (court/crown of the land) owns the deeds to the name/title, so if they want to precede they would be charging themselves with that crime they charged under that name. They do need a name to charge you for there "contract" but without one... no charge can be made. That's why you hear the phrase in the pace procure of arrest "your have right silence" Your right not to contract with them. I hope cleans the floor with your court issues.

Re: Scrap Heap For Britain's 'Barmy Bin Rules'
 

The only evidence is in a mind swimming with herbal thoughts :LOL:

Re: Scrap Heap For Britain's 'Barmy Bin Rules'
 

Well what about parking fines, other public fines take your pick..... look for yourself. As the ones that have worked have very little coverage or information on them as it would open the flood gate to millions. The most covered on would be the TV licence that comes to mind... so have fun with finding them in the public lobby, some victims of modern law have come forward but you'll have look them up.

Re: Scrap Heap For Britain's 'Barmy Bin Rules'
 

I think he has asked you to produce the evidence because without evidence it means nothing, point to a real case that can be seen to have been won using this gobbledygook. Personally i think its just fairy tales and ramblings said over a pint of real ale in a pub by men with beards who look like catweazle. or in your case over a bong.

Re: Scrap Heap For Britain's 'Barmy Bin Rules'
 

You need a "wind-up clock" with your supper Sirius? It seam the spring has nearly ran out on you :D

Well I'm not going to do all his leg work for him ain't I....... evidence come in many forms so take you pick.

Re: Scrap Heap For Britain's 'Barmy Bin Rules'
 

Its not my job to prove your herbal ramblings, its your job to prove your statements with proof or there worthless.

Re: Scrap Heap For Britain's 'Barmy Bin Rules'
 

That'll be a "no",then.....:D

Re: Scrap Heap For Britain's 'Barmy Bin Rules'
 

Well where did I say I was going do someone else's job or just post all the bit need for him to say ..." oh my he was right". If you want to defend yourself & stand for your rights you read up it yourself I did, so has he. No point in saying prove it or it's false as you won't have any out come. If people want to use the rule of the land to there advantage you have look them up. Try the law society for one... so I've give you some but rest is up to you. End of matter. :Peace:

Re: Scrap Heap For Britain's 'Barmy Bin Rules'
 

I find it quite amusing and worrying at the same time that someone actually believes that crap.

Re: Scrap Heap For Britain's 'Barmy Bin Rules'
 

Indeed. I have these weird ideas if i take to many of my tramadol tablets :LOL:

Re: Scrap Heap For Britain's 'Barmy Bin Rules'
 

Here's the wind up clocks you need to put the thought energy to good use...
Don't over wind it you little bugger:D

Re: Scrap Heap For Britain's 'Barmy Bin Rules'
 

Well, I showed your post to a close friend of mine, who is a Senior Manager for the CPS, and who has been a lawyer for over 25 years - after she had stopped crying with laughter, she said she took one of these cases every couple of years, and not one has ever won on the basis you put forward.

Re: Scrap Heap For Britain's 'Barmy Bin Rules'
 

Here's a refresher for you then, pay close attention....... look where the human beings stand in our country.... then choke. Then look where the courts stand & rest. Look down to the part where is quote "corporations" that means courts, governments, banks. Last point look at the information at the bottom to clear things up Hugh.

[img]Download Failed (1)[/img]

Re: Scrap Heap For Britain's 'Barmy Bin Rules'
 

Thought as much.

Re: Scrap Heap For Britain's 'Barmy Bin Rules'
 

toon, you do realise UK Column is just as loony as WND, don't you?

btw, "God's law"? - are you serious?

Re: Scrap Heap For Britain's 'Barmy Bin Rules'
 

What a load of bull excreta, I am so glad i don't live in your fantasy world.

Re: Scrap Heap For Britain's 'Barmy Bin Rules'
 

tbf, he is only there part time (during the "puff puff" time...).

Re: Scrap Heap For Britain's 'Barmy Bin Rules'
 

Back on topic, what are people chucking away to have their bins overflowing on a fortnightly collection? Or do people have very small bins? We have a standard 120l wheely bin for landfill waste and it's 2/3 full at most after two weeks.

We get cardboard and kitchen waste collected weekly and landfill and recycling (bins for plastics and cans, a bin for paper and a bin for glass) collected fortnightly.

Re: Scrap Heap For Britain's 'Barmy Bin Rules'
 

Our landfill bin (120l) is collected weekly, although just a couple of large bin bags in.
Recycling bin (120l) collected every 4 weeks, cardboard/papers plus plastic and cans.

Re: Scrap Heap For Britain's 'Barmy Bin Rules'
 

Well, sorry for the long wait... but ain't most "loonys" proved right after the event/s has taken place...... history has proven this over & over; you have only to look for yourself to find this out people. No one should discount anything in this modern world as "loony" if it sound too good to be true.

Just getting back to the original point here, waste/recycling; the targets that where set out where never going to be reached, the people that put them in place knew that before hand; so when it happens they push up the council rates or cut more services to look to be doing some thing about it but really all there doing is getting kick backs from that govern us all > central European bank through our own corrupt government. That how big government works; for private interests not for the public that funds them.

---------- Post added at 14:57 ---------- Previous post was at 14:51 ----------


Many people don't see why like myself do we pay our council rates yet still have sort out our own rubbish..... we pay their wages to provide a service not for us to do their work for them !!! I say get the jailed prisoners to do the dirty work sorting out rubbish to earn their keep not just get 3 square meals a day & all the care they require for there jailed years. BTW I don't recycle anything much, just all goes in the black bag where it belongs as it should be, to sorted later by a service that I pay for in my rates :mad:

Re: Scrap Heap For Britain's 'Barmy Bin Rules'
 

Errr you do realise that for local government to pay someone to sort through your rubbish and sort it out would involve your rates being a lot higher than they currently are?

Re: Scrap Heap For Britain's 'Barmy Bin Rules'
 

That is not the case in his Herbal fantasy world :LOL:

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I do have to say there seems to be a rather alarming rate of puff-lovers that buy into this whole NWO rubbish....
That's why it's illegal,the government knows that if we all partook we'd be onto them!! :shocked: :D

Re: Scrap Heap For Britain's 'Barmy Bin Rules'
 

Mmmmmmm - you may have a point there (cue massive conspiracy theory....)

Re: Scrap Heap For Britain's 'Barmy Bin Rules'
 

I can't go into specifics,but I have papers proving that MI5 and CIA are behind it....

Re: Scrap Heap For Britain's 'Barmy Bin Rules'
 

Course he doesn't. He doesn't see the connection between what he pays in CT and the services he gets. I dare say that if his local council decided to save local taxpayers a few quid by paying their refuse collectors less and making a few of them redundant he'd complain about that too.

Re: Scrap Heap For Britain's 'Barmy Bin Rules'
 

Actually he may be referring to the lunacy of six or seven different collection bins/boxes that some folk in various cities have to use.My sister has at least 4 and my ma in law has 5.

I only have one recycling bin into which I put everything but glass but if I had to separate into more collection bins than that I'd get pretty peeved.

Re: Scrap Heap For Britain's 'Barmy Bin Rules'
 

We have separate bins for general non recyclable waste, food, paper, glass/metal/plastic and garden waste (optional). It's really not that hard to separate the waste, the main problem I can see is where people have very small or no front gardens in which case storing and putting out the various containers is a pain. IMHO, many a street has been ruined by the requirement to use large unsightly wheelie bins which tend to get left permanently in the front gardens. It's ironic that councils can enforce planning rules about such things as unsightly satellite dishes but then force residents to use large ugly bins they have nowhere to store out of sight. I know which I think looks worse.

Re: Scrap Heap For Britain's 'Barmy Bin Rules'
 

All I use is the black bag all burnable things goes into my multi fuel burner that heats my place & gives free me vast amounts hot water as a by-product so all my waste goes in the black bag + rest follows it too.

Your right Maggy... it four or five if you count the black bags; On a (fortnightly) 2 week cycle

Pink: plastics (second week)
Green: (different bags) Foil/paper/tins/card > (first week)
Green tub : food waste (every week)
Garden sack: garden waste >leaves/clippings (first week)
Black bag: normal waste (second week)

Oh yes not forgetting they don't provide you with enough of types of bags you need; so mid way though you will run out hence all goes in the black bag again... it isn't well thought out not at all. I have to do all that but still pay the council my rates to do what? I pay for there services eg: waste removal so there the big problem like many others view it as. Not for them waste it on unnecessary items/services :banghead: Oh yes & as Osem pointed out where is one going store all these bags till the time arives to put them out........ my storage is full of fuel for my burner after you factor all that room wise however it's used outside storage wise best bet most are kept out side besides the near wall ready to carted off on the right given day that if there not ripped open already, which at that point there useless to anyone so all goes in the same place in the end = black bag