80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

"Using the most widely accepted statistical model, drawn up by a Norwegian academic using data from 100 studies in more than a dozen countries, an increase in average traffic speeds of just 3mph – a typical change for a 10mph rise – would be expected to cause more than 25 extra deaths a year on motorways and more than 100 serious injuries."

Full story here courtesy of the Graduian.

Play nice.

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

Yes l saw this a little earlier Mr A and l am coming at it from a passenger's point of view and l believe we should stay as we are regarding the motorway speed limit but what are your thoughts on this.

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

Average traffic speeds through Birmingham have probably increased by 3 mph since the introduction of managed motorway technology. Have we seen an extra 25 deaths on this stretch?

The article is meaningless without more detail on the starting speed limit & new speed limit in each of the cases. Weather conditions can also have an effect, 50 can be too fast in a 70 area in poor conditions...

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

I think the speed limit should rise to 80mph on motorways and large dual carriage ways, most people do 80 anyway already.

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

IMHO the main problem is not the speed limit it's that too many drivers drive to (and well above) the limit rather than the conditions which is why we regulalry see carnage when there's fog, ice etc. Raising the maximum limit without doing something about this and the serious tailgating etc. we already see on our motorways would be very risky.

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

But then if it goes up to 80mph then Drivers will still break the law as they gradually test out the tolerance zone and who's to say that they will not be doing 90mph then on the motorway.

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

Speed limits don`t kill, It`s the stupid arses behind the wheel that cause the damage and mayhem.!:erm:

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

Yes, the stupid arses who think it's quite OK to drive at 100mph 6 inches behind another vehicle 'safe' in the believe that they're all amateur Stigs and that their fancy ABS, ESP, TC etc. etc. etc. will protect them from any eventuality.....

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

i supose it depends how many of these extra deaths would be pensioners or unemployed / disabled to see if it was finacialy a good move in the economic situation ;)

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

Exactly!

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

perhaps then, we should look at the quality and time we spend on learner drivers. perhaps if a law was brought in whereby a new driver cannot take any practical driving test within the first 40 hours of starting to drive. reduce the costs of the hourly rate as an across-the-board rule to ensure that the relative (i use the term loosely!) affordability of learning to drive is maintained. make the law for being allowed to drive more like the law for learning to fly, where one has to have a certain number of hours in control of a vehicle before one is allowed to 'go solo'. perhaps even introduce a 2 tier system for testing. the first test enables a driver on roads up to 40mph and the second, more advanced test 6 months after for roads up to motorway speeds and sizes.

as said, it's not the speed that is the problem. it's those who think they can either handle the speed, or are just idiots when behind the wheel. why punish everyone because of the few numpties out there and not even bother looking at the root causes?

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

Personally I feel there needs to be better studies widespread generalisation like these models inacurate due to most death down to factors not black & white. More down to history of road, location tyoe traffic volume. Type accident ie cause and vehicles involved. Some parts of country motorway network could be safe to do so.

I would like to see programme to bring about reducing cars with less encap safety marks. All models tested marked with programme to reduce the weak off the road.

I drive car which is very poor encap showed may as well not drive with seatbelt got more chance survival if thrown from the vehicle. It literally folds in half servere head chest leg injuries which would likely result in death according to the tests. I would feel totally unsafe outside town.

Surely a car with 5 encap would cope with 80m but then that depends who hits you. It also depends on conditions whether 80m is safe.

I always felt road speed should be electronic adjust accordingly not just on motorways but all roads. That would reduce acidents more takes the guessing what safe but then it needs better weather localised forcasting.

I hate those studies all fits one shoe type affairs they too generalised dont go deep enough.

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

I think you have hit the nail on the head. Many people don't drive to the road conditions at all. A prime example that we often see in winter is when we are driving at a safe distance, and at a safe speed for the visibility in foggy conditions. Then we are often overtaken by someone doing suicidal speeds, who can't possibly see far enough to cover braking distances.



One thing that I was thinking of only yesterday whilst driving down the A15, was the fact that HGV's have a speed limit of 40mph on single carriageways, although the speed limit for cars is 60mph. This leads to some car drivers often taking risks to overtake the HGV's. And as I witnessed several times yesterday, many tond take into account 1) the length of the vehicle they are overtaking, and therefore the time it tales to pass, 2) blind bends, 3) blind summits, 4) junctions. Quite often it is just pure luck that the overtakers don't cause a serious accident.

Now the question is, would it be safer to increase the HGV limit on these roads to 60mph, as this would probably mean less cars overtaking them?? Or would this be cancelled out by the fact that the HGV's are moving faster??

---------- Post added at 21:46 ---------- Previous post was at 21:42 ----------

Very good idea. Although limits would have to be enforced with variable speed cameras. As we have all seen on many occasions people ignoring reduced speed limits on motorway matrix.

---------- Post added at 21:52 ---------- Previous post was at 21:46 ----------

Some probably would. Although you ony have to drive down a motorway at 70mph to see how many people you are overtaking because they are doing 60mph. And how many overtake you doing at least 90mph already. I think those who ignore the speed limits probably don't worry too much about just how far over the limit they are going. The only real boundry for these people seems to be 100mph, because they know it is an automatic ban if they exceed it.

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

What is it they say ?

Lies, damn lies & statistics .....

Someone somewhere will usually provide a "study" to prove pretty much anything you want.

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

Very true, there is more than one side to every argument.

---------- Post added at 22:01 ---------- Previous post was at 21:57 ----------

Some Fire Services have started a scheme where they visit 15 to 18 year olds at schools and colleges. And through videos, lectures, and practical demonstrations, they hope to scare teenagers out of becoming boy (or girl) racers.

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

I can't see that having much of an effect. For some people, driving fast and dangerously makes them feel alive, it's almost a mini-rush. All the education in the world won't make much of a difference if they're susceptible to that sort of experience.

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

adding tracking devices that record speed, acceleration, braking, et cetera would certainly help curb that if the info was scheduled to upload to insurance companies regularly with annual quotes being affected by the results. I know a few places have started doing this for new drivers, but if it were mandatory...? yes, it's all very big brother, but unlike 'safety cameras', this would actually make a difference to who is on our roads, imo. if it actually saves lives, right.....?

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

That idea is commendable, but it would be like speed cameras. They don't stop people from speeding - they just take photos.

I'm sure tracking devices will be beneficial to road safety but they'll never make a serious dent in the accident figures IMO. They won't do anything to affect the statistics of accidents caused by joyriders.

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

I think we need to address the standard of driving in the UK as well. I drove over 2500 miles in the US earlier this year, in both good & very bad weather. I never once had any road rage from fools on the road. I'd only been back in the UK & on the road for about 15 minutes when I had some idiot driving erratically and cutting me up.

As for the speed limit. I don't actually believe the Government argument that it will help the economy due to less time for deliveries etc. Many police forces already run an unofficial policy of speed limits above the legal 70MPH we now have. I could name one that operates at up to 86MPH.

As others have stated deaths, crashes etc are not solely down to speed. It is more about education drivers to drive at the appropriate speed for the road, conditions, number of vehicles etc etc.

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

Shock tactics are used. And believe me, many of them are shocked. So it's worth a try.

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

Even though it's unlikely to make much of a difference? Yeah why not, the government has to be seen to be doing something I guess.

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

I agree with you, mertle. Such studies are straightforward and can provide robist evidence for decision-makers. For example, select sections of motorway in various parts of the country, "pair" them, them randomly allocate half of the pair to have an increased speed limit for, say, two years. Gather data on speed of journeys, vehicle throughput per hour, accidents per month, deaths per annum, etc. Put the data into the public domain so everything is transparent, then act on the results.

Most of the medicines we take have been tested to these standards, why not road safety?

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

Like it or not, we have drivers of varying age, experience and ability on our roads and the relevant rules/regulations need to reflect that fact. I've lost count how many times I've heard someone defending their own speeding and aggressive driving by claiming they and their cars are up to it so it's all perfectly safe. But what about those who aren't up to it, whose vehicles aren't so capable? What about those who're nervous, have slower reactions and/or respond unpredictably? We don't drive in isolation and what we do on the roads should reflect not only our abilities but make allowance for those around us who may not see things or react in quite the same way. It seems to me that many of the most serious incidents on our roads appear to happen due to freak events in the blink of an eye but in reality are caused by drivers overestimating their own skills, ignoring the highway code and not taking sufficient accout of what's going on around them whether that be the prevailing weather or other road users.

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

:clap:

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

Don't think for a second that it is the governments initative. They have nothing to do with it.

The only things that will work are education or enforcement. If you educate people with something that really sticks in their mind, then it does tend to work. And if you scare someone, then they tend to never forget it.

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

Lol, ok.

You managed to get one of those correct. Some people cannot and/or will be educated. For example, some people with ADHD find it hard to learn new things like that. It is not an offence to bring with a condition like that but their concentration can drift to the point where such 'education' will have little effect.


Or they just try harder to perform whatever their dangerous manoeuvre is, more 'carefully'. You cannot easily educate against a powerful ego.

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

Not so much freak events. As I described earlier, many drivers take risks because they have got a way with it so many times previously. Most times they are just lucky to get away with it. Occasionally their luck just runs out.

---------- Post added at 12:09 ---------- Previous post was at 12:05 ----------

We are talking about the majority of people that go through the boy racer stage.

It is a bit of a sweeping statement to say that you can't educate people with ADHD. Well you can, but it is harder to do.

If you scare them enough, then you will be surprised what effect you can have.

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

Yeah, I'm one of them.

Yes it is a sweeping statement. It's also not what I said.

Indeed. You'll find they'll just practise their inside-lane overtaking etc until they think they've mastered it to the point of having the 'it'll never happen to me'. Show them incidents of other people thinking the same and it may calm them down slightly for a while but the old nature will come through.

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

There are some people who you will never educate. But the majority of them you can.

This is just one example of a video that actually has many students in tears, and will probably stay will them for their whole lives: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGsw3xneor8

You seem intelligent enough, that such images would probably have stuck with you, and probably would have made a difference.

You use undertaking as an example. Well if they saw the consequences of undertaking, then they would probably be less likely to do it.

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

Well I drive on the motorway everyday.

I would ban lorrys from lane 2 to 4 in the rain.

---------- Post added at 13:10 ---------- Previous post was at 13:08 ----------

Speed doesn't kill, it's the pratts behind the wheel who drive outside their skill level.

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

up north where we only have 2 lanes ....sometimes ....on our motorways ,tractors and other slow moving vehicles are banned during morning and evening peak times which does make a big difference to the flow of traffic which in turn will make a difference to the amount of accidents due to stop start traffic .

I see no benefit in increasing the limit to 80mph

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

l agree totally.

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

Apart from those who are convinced (and no education will change) that undertaking is necessary due to others hogging the outside lanes.

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

The comment that l would make on this, is that no matter what limit you place on roads or motorway's you have have someone breaking it.

The worst time of speeding is when it is bad weather, and l know l shouldn't say it, but l have no sympathy with people who end up fatally injured, l feel sorry for the people who get killed as a result of stupid drivers.

I have been driving for the past thirty years, and what l have seen would make your blood boil.

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

That's the point I was making - they can 'appear' to be freak events but they're actually often the culmination of serious and habitual negligence/recklesslness on the part of a hard core of drivers who like to drive as if they're in a GP. Sooner or later the inevitable occurs and we have carnage. The sad part is that these people can't be educated becuase they think it'll never happen to them, they're just too good to make a mistake.....

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

Undertaking actually works very well in many countries. Also it is not actually illegal within the UK. However it is discouraged in most driving circumstances.

The obvious country to use as an example where undertaking works well is the US. However there roads are much larger than ours & then is an advantage to the procedure.

Even on UK motorways due to the volume of vehicles & smaller size of lanes etc & also our habit of driving close I think if undertaking became the norm there would be more collisions.

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

Discouraged? The wording in the Highway Code is a bit stronger than that:

Paragraph 268 on http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAn...code/DG_069862

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

Most drivers fail to adjust their maximum speed to suit the driving conditions. This is often exacerbated by an inability to leave a reasonable distance between vehicles whcih unfortunately is made worse by our congested roads where if you do try an leave a gap someone else will fill it for you.

I was once told a statistic (which we all know can be manipulated) that in Surry 2% of serious accidents had drink as a factor, but 38% had speed as a factor (you could have more than one factor in the accident). Of course it's too much speed for the circumstances, not just breaking the limit. And that comes from driver judgement, or lack of.

In France some of their autoroutes do have a variable limit. It's signposted but not electronically enforced as we see on some of our congested systems on the M25 and around Birmingham. They allow 130km/h when it's dry but reduice to 110km/h in poor conditions. The question would probably be what determines poor?

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

There are several other parts of the Highway Code concerning 'undertaking' which you seem to have not bothered to quote. These give reasons when undertaking IS allowed.

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

Why do we not go back to the horse drawn carts and then this thread would be redundant, People should stick to the speed limits and also take due care and attention of the driving conditions as well.

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

And l concur with that sentiment 100%.

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

I think the limit should be raised to 100mph for cars and motorbikes should not be limited at all in national limit zones.

Well that's how I act anyway, would be nice if it was legal

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

I would not think that my old friends parents would agree, As he said he never went on a motorway less than 120mph. He was coming back from North Wales in the centre lane on the motorway.
As he was travelling back at 6am in the morning some one came down the slip road straight in to the middle lane and clipped the bike he was on. It put him straight in to the central reservation and killed him straight out (so the coroner said).

I think that the speed limit should be the same as it is now.

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

and you would feel the same should you kill someone ?.

Your post is the exact reason why the limit should not be raised because if you drive/ride like that now should the limit be raised you would just go faster putting more lives at risk

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

They are banned from the outside lane anyway


The trouble is that many people over estimate their own skill level. So when they drive within what they believe to be their own skill level, they are actually way outside it.

If we all drove defensively, then roads would be a far safer place.

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

Well, if you had been bothered to read the OP you would have seen this thread is about motorways, where vehicles don't usually turn right. :rolleyes:

Bearing this in mind, perhaps you can quote the relevant paragraph from the Highway Code?

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

I don't know, I haven't killed anyone.

I wouldn't necessarilly go faster, I always drive/ride as fast as I can to the conditions presented to me at the time.

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

yet :rolleyes:



Of course you would ,Your assesment of the conditions at any given time are not the same as other road users .You will continue to drive/ride as fast as you can without any concideration for other road users untill you either kill yourself or more importantly someone else

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

....and therein lies the problem. A proportion of people drive as fast/aggressively as they can get away with and justify their actions on the basis that they're safe drivers - it's only other people who're a risk. Even when the inevitable happens and they're involved in an accident, many will blame the other drivers, conveniently overlooking that driving safely is about making allowances for the unexpected by, for example slowing down, keeping a safe distance etc. in order to mitigate the effects of what in itself might be a minor error of judgement by someone but which could, nonetheless, cause carnage.

A motorcyclist and self confessed serial speeder once asked me with some indignance, 'how on earth can I intimidate the driver of a 2 ton lump of metal?' He just didn't seem to be able to appreciate that seeing someone hurtling towards you in your rear view mirror and/or being overtaken/undertaken at high speed is in the least bit worrying, intimidating or possibly even mistake inducing. Frankly it's that sort of attitude and tunnel vision which accounts for many of the deaths we see on our roads amongst both drivers and bikers.

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

I'm fully aware this topic concerns motorways. But thanks for the reminder :rolleyes:

I believe the above relevant paragraph refers to undertaking ;).

So kindly get off your high horse.

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

I believe you have just quoted back to me the paragraph I quoted to you. :rolleyes:

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

That's the sort of attitude that does get people killed. I deal with the results of people like you on a regular basis.

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

You make it seem that it is inevitable I will kill someone, which of course it isn't.

Is your driving impeccable in all areas?

I would wager it isn't, I would also argue that as I haven't killed anyone, and I presume you haven't, that the odds are fairly equal on us both potentially killing some one.
My assessment may be better than some other road users, also explain to me how driving to the conditions and adapting my driving to suit those conditions is not considerate to other road users.

Although I drive at speed sometimes I am always considerate to other road users, if only other road users were considerate to motorcyclists - how safer the roads would be then

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

It's not inevitable just highly likely and my driving is not impecccable ,i and any other person involved in a accident have a much better chance at survival than you when you drive at a self confessed "unlimited speed" or 100mph


You most definately are not conciderate to any other road user when driving at speeds that break the limits set for that road you have absolutely no idea what is round the next bend or when a tyre will blow out or when a animal or any foriegn object will enter your path or are you that arrogant you think you can see the future .

Accidents do happen even when the drivers are driving to the conditions of the road and within limits ,people will die or get badly injured .The limits are there as a compromise between getting from A-B in a timely fashion and as safely as possible ,they are not a target to be reached and passed .

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

maybe a better resolution to the problem would be to have separate speed limits for each lane; 60, 70 and 80. Its a system used in the EU and it works from what i experienced when over there myself

at the moment, the "fast lane" is limited to 60, so to use it as the "fast lane" and overtake people, you would be replying on people in the middle and inside lanes to be doing slower than 60, so the lanes would have to be 40, 50, 60. and i mean 50 is slow enough on the motorway, never mind 40

All they need to do is legalise what currently happens on the road which is the 60, 70, 80 system i mentioned above

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

Maybe not inevitable, but by driving at high speeds the chaces of having a serious accident are increased massively

Not many people can say that theirs is. But from what you have yold us, yours is far from it

No, the odds are highly stacked towards you killing someone if you drive at excessive speeds.


And how do you know your assessment is any good at all? It's only your ego that tells you that you are a good driver. But the fact that you admit to driving at excessive speeds, and that you think it is safe to do so, tells us that your assessment is way off the mark.

Driving at high speeds is not considerate to other road users.

How do you think a judge would react to someone saying "I am always considerate to other road users", when standing in the dock for killing a child??

I have to deal with the results of people with the same attitude as people like you on a regular basis.

---------- Post added at 09:35 ---------- Previous post was at 09:32 ----------

Was that a typo??
The national speed limit is 70mph

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

And no doubt you deal with the same results of people with no attitude with their driving. which means that it's not exclusive to speeding. but mostly down to the car itself. which means we should ban the car altogether.

but then someone will throw percentages into the equation. a factor where so many accidents is little in comparism to how many cars there are on the road.

which would mean that the driving at high speed accidents is probably an even smaller factor in comparism to driving at normal speed.

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

Depends on the circumstances, I've already stated that I drive to the conditions.

I will quite happily drive at 100mph on a motorway, in the dry, when it's not too busy and visibility is good.

I wont do 100mph on a country lane in the wet at night.

I adhere to 30&40 limits in built up areas.

Most likely cause of an accident I witness daily is inattention on the motorway, just because you indicate doesn't mean you can pull out.

You can't judge my driving technique from what I have said on here.

Are they? how high.

because I have something called experience

and my experience

not excessive for the conditions at the time

for the conditions at the time

tells me I'm spot on

Why not?

I don't know never exxperienced it, and I can't speak for a judge.

Point of the question was?

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

Speed is a major contributor to the seriousness of injuries sustained in accidents.

Modern vehicles are designed with many safetly features. These include: Progressive crumple zones which are designed to absorb the impact.
And a safety shell surrounding the passenger compartment.
SRS systems including mutiple airbags (some are dual activation), not just in the steering wheel and dashboard, but in many other places like seats, foot wells, and side impact curtain air bags. Some cars have up to 13 air bags. Not forgetting seat belt pretensioners, steering wheels that move away from the driver, and head rests that move forward to protect from whiplash. However, all of the above are designed to protect us at normal road speeds, and not at 100mph+ speeds.

If it wasn't for all the above, then it would be quite common that 30mph accidents would be fatal. When a vehicle comes to a sudden stop, our bodies try to continue moving forward. But our bodies are held in place by seat belts etc. So our internal organd try to continue moving forward. Without any crumple zones to slow the impact down, our internal organs would try to continue moving forward at the speed the car was moving at. This can lead to massive internal injuries, including wat is more common than most people realise, the heart becoming severed from the main artery (which leads to almost instant death).

In an impact at speeds of 100mph+, the crumple zones can't slow the impact down enough. So in a very high number of accidents at 100mph+, the result is fatal.

Not forgetting that the reaction distance is huge, so it becomes very difficult to avoid the accident in the first place (no matter how good a driver you think you are). Also accident are far more likely if one vehicle is travelling far quicker than the others.

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

You don't have to exceed the limits for a road to be dangerous.

50mph into a 90deg blind corner on a country road will get you, or someone, killed - but you haven't exceeded the limit.

Whereas 75-80 on the same road where is straightens out and you have good visibility for a mile or two is perfectly safe.

I said I drive fast....not stupid.

And I'm afraid it's numbskulls such as yourself and Mr Deegan that can't differentiate between the two.

Accidents do happen even when the drivers are driving to the conditions of the road and within limits ,people will die or get badly injured .The limits are there as a compromise between getting from A-B in a timely fashion and as safely as possible ,they are not a target to be reached and passed .

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

And what makes you an expert to make this assessment?

Oblivious to the danger you are putting other road users in!

That is a typical remark from someone who drives dangerously. "well my lord, I was driving safely at 100mph, when some idiot dared to pull out and block my path. So I had no choice but to pile into the back of them, killing the family of four".

The fact is that when people look in their mirror before pulling out, they may see a car 200m behind them. But they won't expect that car to be travelling so fast that they are smashing into the back of them within a matter of seconds.


Yes we can. You are clearly a dangerous and inconsiderate driver


Don't start that game, I don't rely on stats. I go by what I see with my own eyes.

Experience doesn't make you a good driver. It can make you very complacent. And combined with your poor attitude, can make you very dangerous.

The fact that you admit to diving at 100mph+, and think it's safe, tells us all that you don't have a clue about judging what is safe and what isn't.


Because you put them in serious danger


Well lets hope you lose your licence before you do kill anyone

---------- Post added at 11:14 ---------- Previous post was at 11:12 ----------

Possibly just ignorant!!!

Are you trained to drive safely on public roads, at high speed??

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

Here we go. everyone except those who have a certificate are dangerous drivers :)

even those with certificates kill people.

Suppose it was possible for someone to get a certificate by paying for the course. and then he turned around and said I drive fast on the roads and I have the required certificate that says I have had the training and says I am competent. and then someone says are you a policeman or an emergency vehicle driver?

and he says no. that person will say well it don't count because only them people are safe drivers.

we are crazy people.

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

So what happens when our 100mph plus speeder loses control due to, say, a tyre blowout, falling asleep, suffering a heart attack, getting distracted by something or whatever? Do his clearly superior driving abilities and reactions allow him to prevent his car overturning and careering out of control into oncoming traffic? Do they prevent the wreckage of his destroyed vehicle becoming an instant and serious threat to all the other motorists using that road at the time? Even if his car and reactions are up to it, what about those mere mortal road users who're suddenly confronted with the result of his actions? The car careering towards them or the wreckage all over the road? Does our super driver know how they're going to react and what might happen to them? Does that even matter to him? Of course, such events can happen at 70mph but there's no doubt that the higher the speed, the less time there is for the driver and other road users to react to any event and the more likely it is that the outcome will be fatal. Yes in the modern world it is about getting a sensible balance between speed and safety and IMHO the current limit is just that but I wouldn't object to a slightly lower limit.

Those who want to speed and choose which laws they obey would be doing the rest of us a big favour by confining their actions to private roads or tracks where the only people they can hurt are themselves.

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

Would you feel safer if he had one of these certificates you can get?

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

I got one of those and basically they just reinforce driving correctly i.e thinking ahead ,staying within limits ect.ect

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

Possibly but I'd feel even safer if everyone slowed down a bit and observed the Highway Code. I find it hard to accept that all of those who'll happily flout the speed limits adhere properly to all the other rules.

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

it was late.... doh!

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

What a load of tosh!!

It isn't safe for anyone to drive on public highways, at excessive speeds, without blue lights and sirens to warn other road users.

---------- Post added at 15:49 ---------- Previous post was at 15:46 ----------

You can't get those certificates, full stop!!!

---------- Post added at 15:53 ---------- Previous post was at 15:49 ----------

Very well put. However I think there are a couple of people in this thread who think that laws are there to be broken, rather than for our safety.

They should remember that the biggest killer on the roads isn't alcohol, it's over inflated egos, and over inflated views of ones own ability.

---------- Post added at 15:55 ---------- Previous post was at 15:53 ----------

I don't think he was talking about advanced driving. I think he was talking about emergency vehicle blue light training, which members of the public can't get.

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

So it's the sounds and lights that keep everybody safe?

no problem. we can get some lights and a siren.

That's really unfair. and besides that, I did say if it was possible.

He was.

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

No, it's a trained driver, who uses the lights and sirens to warn other traffic that he is there.

Only if you want to get nicked


I'm afraid it is unfair, but there are always track days.


Well advanced driving doesn't even come close to emergency vehicle driving.

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

But it is possible that somebody will meet the standard without this 'magic' training?
nobody is safe on the roads whether they be edeserted** or not without this certificate in their back pocket and a switch that operates a genuine police siren, a set of genuine blue lights, inside an official assigned vehicle?

it won't be an official blue one for legal reasons.

but if it was a blue one then the skill involved must surely be partly due to the public being aware of it.
would you say that turning his blue light off would reduce his skill at all?

For the sake of the argument* it can't be, can it.

*discussion.

** haven't got a clue. I'm still wondering what it is I supposed to have said.

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

It sounds to me by reading your posts that you have convinced yourself that no matter what happens you have it all under control so best of luck 'cos your gonna need it when your numbskull hits a tree/brickwall/car/pedestrian or any other obstacle that had the ordacity to jump out in front of you

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

If you drive defensively, then you will be far safer on the road. But that wouldn't include driving at over 100mph. If we all drive at the same speed, then this is far safer. But with most of the traffic doing 60-70, whilst one idiot is doing 100mph+, then it is a combination of reaction times, speed differential, and awareness by other road users that someone is closing on them at 100mph+. It's with the awareness that the blues and twos come in.

So it is impossible to drive safely at 100mph+ without a means of warning other road users.


To start with it would be illegal to have any flashing blue light on your vehicle.

Blues and twos don't improve your skills, they make the situation safer by making other road users aware that there is another vehicle with a huge speed differential to them.

However, there are many people who have an over inflated belief in their own driving skills. I hear comments all the time about people believing that they are skilled drivers, so the collision couldn't possible have been their fault (even when it was). And other people saying that they can drive safely whilst using their mobile. Well apparently you are 4x more likely to be in an accident whilst using a mobile than you are drinking and driving (sorry I hate stats too).

---------- Post added at 12:10 ---------- Previous post was at 12:08 ----------

The trouble is that more often than not, it seems to be the innocent party that gets killed. So I just hope that Pierre gets caught, and loses his licence before he kills someone.

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

I do thanks, if I didn't have it under control I would be dangerous. Do you often not feel in control when driving?

That's probably the difference between us, I have full confidence in my ability and control of my vehicle, if you're a nervous driver.... Have you considered public transport? Leave the roads for those that are in control

trees and brick Walls are inanimate objects and won't jump out on anyone, if a pedestrian jumps out in front of my car, if I'm in a 30 limit they may live, if not they may not. If they have jumped in front of my car they'll also get the bill for the repair.

---------- Post added at 12:46 ---------- Previous post was at 12:40 ----------

ha, you don't get out that often do you


Whatever, yawn

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

I'm now convinced that you are just trolling.....nobody is that ignorant!!!

If you aren't, then your over confidence makes you dangerous.

---------- Post added at 13:16 ---------- Previous post was at 13:13 ----------

Actually, if you actually woke up and took any notice of what the other traffic are doing, then you would see that most of the traffic travels at 60-70mph on motorways.

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

I've been a member of this forum for 8 years an was a member of the forum that preceeded this one.......... If I was a troll I'm sure I would have been pulled up over it before now.

On the contrary it is I that find your views ignorant.

I shall waste my time with you no more. Just remember to reflect and take a good sniff of what you're shovelling once in a while.

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

Better way is to take them to real accidents and morgues. It's harder to blank out when you can smell what's going on.

Have a simulator that can give some idea of impacts at slower speeds then get them to work it out at more realistic speeds.

Get some onto track and show how easy it is to loose control, especially in the wet/icy/dirt/rough road. Especially in the sort of car they are likely to own/drive.

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

Sadly though there will always be people like Pierre who think they will always know better than proffesionals who deal with idiocy like his every day

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

Ah but you see these drivers are perfect and don't need any of that guff. Even at 100mph plus they can see black ice, diesel spills, sharp objects on the road and the like. Their senses are honed to expect the unexpected and can even predict freak events like blowouts secure in the knowledge that their superior driving skills will always see them out of trouble. Frankly I'm surprised that drivers as good as these guys must be ever get involved in serious accidents at all but I expect it's all the fault of everyone else on the roads.... :rolleyes:

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

I think some people are taking this far too seriously.

some think that anyone in uniform in an official government vehicle are superior drivers, and all others are useless too.

some think that having this certificate makes you a superior driver, and not having one means you're useless.

some think that we should have a TV show where the useless and the superior compete. but only the superior are allowed blue lights. the useless have to have purple. :)

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

Bless....

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

Thanks. but I was born blessed already.

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

That's because to those of us who have lost friends or family because of stupid driving think it is serious

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

Ok, but in a few years the government may raise the speed limit to 100mph on the motorway anyway. and those who say they sometimes drive at 100mph anyway can no longer be called irresponsible, careless or dangerous.

we have got to teach ourselves at the moment about people who drive at 80mph that they are no longer seen as a social misfit.

our government really knows how to pull our strings, don't they.

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

Special, perhaps - blessed, unlikely....;)

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

Are you suggesting we're related? ;)

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

Nah, I was overseas at the time you were born.....;)

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

Won't matter what the speed limit is soon anyway. The roads will be too congested to do more than 30 regardless.

However, I will side with those who say speed does not kill. It will always be failing to drive to the road conditions at speed that causes the problems. I regularly travel with someone who seems to have one speed - 40mph. He has been stopped for speeding in the same place (a wide road with good visibility) 3 times on the trot. Yet for most of the time he is well under the speed limit.

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

No it's not the actual speed that kills..It's driving at higher speeds NOSE TO TAIL that is the biggest danger.

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

You have been pulled up for it before. I have seen many of your posts that appear to have been made just to get a reaction. After all, nobody could be stupid enough to really believe the things you have been saying.

It's quite simple, no matter how skilled you think you are at driving, it is never going to be safe to drive at 100mph+ without any form of warning system. It doesn't take a genius to work that out.

---------- Post added at 17:46 ---------- Previous post was at 17:44 ----------

Well as we have seen, there are still some people who would say "it wasn't my fault, I'm too skilled to have caused an accident".

Apart from that you are spot on. Did you see the youtube clip I posted earlier in the thread?

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

Agree in part but with increased speed comes increased momentum, increased stopping distances and a proportional lowering of reaction time. Even leaving possible driver error aside, a blowout at 30mph or 70mph isn't likely to be as dangerous (to both the occupants of the vehicle and other road users in the vicinity) as one at 100mph.

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

And some are too thick skinned to realise that you mean them...lol

---------- Post added at 17:58 ---------- Previous post was at 17:48 ----------

It's a serious issue, when people get killed.

Now you are twisting my words. But if you want to go down that route, who else is actually trained to drive at high speeds on public roads safely?

I used to do motor racing, but just being skilled on the race track doesn't prepare you for obsticals, other drivers, oil spills, traffic coming at you head on, junctions, or drivers who panic.

As I keep saying, there is no certificate.

No it doesn't mean you are useless if you aren't qualified at all. My point was that people shouldn't have an inflated belief of their skills, unless they have been tested.

Now you are being silly about the lights.

There have been many programs testing peoples driving skills. And guess what, it's usually the cocky, over confident ones who are the worst drivers.

---------- Post added at 18:18 ---------- Previous post was at 17:58 ----------

We aren't talking about those who drive at 80mph. That isn't as much of a speed differential.

I can't see the limit being raised to 100mph, but if it was then there wouldn't be a big speed differential making those driving at those speeds as dangerous.

---------- Post added at 18:24 ---------- Previous post was at 18:18 ----------

So in other words, although speed doesn't kill, it is a huge factor in determining if someone involved in an accidednt lives or dies.

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

Lets get one thing straight, the roads are dangerous places made more dangerous by idiots driving outside of one or more of, their skill/their vehicles capabilities/the conditions. On the back of that there are several points:

- Speed is a factor in 100% accidents in that, as has been pointed out, the slower you go the lesser the affects to the point that if nobody was moving there would not have been an accident. This is why any quote of speed is a factor in X% of accidents is a joke and just a fallback of lazy accident investigators/reporters. Excessive speed for the conditions is another matter but is not a fixed value and is very difficult to prove (driver/vehicle/road surface/environment etc) despite being noted down as the easy option in many cases where it was not the root cause.

- If the motorway speed limit was 60 we would be having the exact same argument with the same people about why we shouldn't raise it to 70. Taking the lowest common denominator for the standard of driving as many people state, we should have a maximum speed limit of 30 across the board but this would be seen as silly and going overboard due to the impact on peoples day to day lives and the economy.

- Having a blow out or other failure at 50, 60, 70 or 80+ isn't going to make a whole lot of difference to your average driver in most vehicles on the road today as people don't know what to do in such a situation anyway which will lead to loss of control of the vehicle. On a separated carriageway like a motorway all traffic should be flowing within 30mph or so of each other making any impact significantly less than 80mph into a brick wall. If people don't see a stationary object in front of them then they are either not looking ahead or are driving too quick for the conditions at which we come back to my second point and may as well lower all speed limits to 30 to make sure this worst case is survivable.

- Pedestrians should be a none issue in this discussion as they are banned on motorways and people on the hard shoulder are advised to get back behind the guard rail.


As background I have been in an accident caused by a blowout that nearly took my life (classic car, 70mph dual carriageway, no guard rails & trees) and therefore know the risks, I have been on track and taken my vehicles to their and my limits in various conditions. I know my limits, my vehicles limits, how to handle the car under adverse conditions such as certain failures and when control is not possible & I drive under the speed limit when required by conditions like ice and fog.

Several of you however would still paint me as some form of reckless idiot that wants to kill people because I believe some speed limits like those on the motorway could be safely raised.

Speed limits are a blunt force weapon that loses effectiveness as vehicles become more safe, and at speed where the difference between 70 and 80 is significantly less than that between 30 and 40. In my opinion the real answer for further increasing road safety is through Education. Education in vehicle handling in adverse conditions (learning to recognise where the limits are and what to do when you are past them e.g. Finland), reading the road ahead and general courtesy towards other road users.

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

There you go Tim & Martyn, here's another crazy idiot..... :rolleyes:

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

As i pointed out above peoples skill set on the roads differs greatly so a compromise is reached between getting from A-B safely and quick enough to make the journey practical .Peoples own assessment of driving conditions cannot be relied on when they are late for work or any other appointment .There are a thousand things that can affect their judgement and lead them to assess the conditions incorrectly that's why we have limits and it is the utmost arrogance on the part of a driver to think he/she knows better and can somehow predict the future

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

Brilliant, accurate, definitive, logical.

I certainly can't argue against such reasoned and well thought out point.

Well done!

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

I want to ban the car altogether because it kills at all speeds. are you with me?

Ok, who taught the first person that started the teaching of the rest?

was it just a common sense approach put into action?
if that 'policeman' was able to teach others then there has to be others that are capable of fitting the grade without having to get the training.

I was watching someone play a game on the Xbox the other day. Halo3 I think it was. he had to go through training.
"look up.. good" "look down..excellent. I think you're ready"

We'll just call it a piece of paper then for arguments sake.

Surely you mean trained.

Ok, so it doesn't look silly. both sides can have the blue ones.

Of course it is. it's a big difference.
just the saame as it would be a big difference if it was 40 compared to 30.

Compared to what, 80?
so when does speed become dangerous then. you've lost me.

And please don't say anything about certificates, blue flashing lights, sirens or training.

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

There's a very big difference between believing and arguing that limits could/should be raised and ignoring the current legal limits on the basis that it suits. I'd be all for more driver education and better enforcement of both reckless speeding and other aspects of damgerous driving but until that happens and those speeders who tailgate and try to intimidate other drivers out of their way are forced off the roads one way or another, higher speed limits arern't what's required. That prospect may annoy those who feel they're the better drivers amongst us but I'm afraid it's a price we all have to pay for using public roads upon which there are drivers of varying abilities/attitudes and a wide range of vehicles some of which are far better/safer/better maintained than others. Adjusting national limits upwards to suit those who believe they're la creme de la creme and their vehicles simply puts everyone else at extra risk and I have to say that, when it comes to driving, some folks I have met not only have a very inflated opinion of their own abilities but a correspondingly low opinion of everyone else's.

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

IMHO just because somebody has a bit of paper that say they have done advanced driving doesn't mean thay are better than somebody who hasn't.

I looked into doing this but the cost to do it and the price my car insurance would fall was a joke.

Re: 80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'
 

In all due respect when there is fog etc. people are probably going slower than 80mph due to the weather. Especially when there is ice. If there is carnage even going at 60mph you in trouble.

Why not use germany as an example of how dangerous it is?