rail racism...
 

mods feel free to edit or delete this if you wish, I post as it hasn't appeared on here.

few videos have appeared, what are peoples views? first one was a drunk looking lady on a train, couldn't even speak properly. the other was the lady on a croydon tram if i'm correct? with the little kid in her arms. theres full videos on youtube, not sure whether i'd be allowed to post it so i'm not going to.

my personal view is that it was disgusting, many people live here and regard themselves as British striving forward. the first video I came across with the drunk looking female having a rant on a train does have a point.. to me speaking a non English language in public is rude. again as mentioned she seemed drunk and let it all out in a foul way.

the second? anger towards the current state of the country? still, it doesn't give her the right to say what she did say

Re: rail racism...
 

I saw the one with the woman who had the baby on her lap the other day. I was expecting the guy behind her to punch her in the head.

it's just a pity that she was a bit tipsy.

Re: rail racism...
 

The first woman was obviously not quite right.

As far as I know she had been undergoing psychiatric treatment prior to the video and has since been arrested and remanded for mental health assessment. Plus she was obviously drunk and/or drugged in the video.

There are plenty of halfwits out there of all ages, sexes, colours and religions, I'm only surprised videos like this haven't got more exposure sooner.

Re: rail racism...
 

I think the recession and David are just getting people down.

Re: rail racism...
 

What videos? :confused:

Re: rail racism...
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-15923875

This is the first one. Obviously not a direct link as it gets a bit sweary :shocked:

Re: rail racism...
 

get on youtube and put tram into search... its the first result My Tram Experience

the other one (first video i came across should be on the right of the vid above - related vids - it comes up as racism in england on mine

Re: rail racism...
 

search for "my train experience" and "my tram experience" and "my tube experience" on youtube and you'll get all 3 of the different videos.

The woman on the tram with the little baby was not drunk she was on something else, possibly cocaine. The woman on the train and the woman on the tube were clearly drunk though.

Re: rail racism...
 

Just seen the video it's in most watched this week. Cart belive all the stuff she was saying to them even in front of the children. Shocked no 1 gave him a gd smack. In my eyes I don't care where u can from weather what Colour u are ur still human and i love u all and I respect u all. But she just doest care so shocked no 1 gave him a gd smack or even forced her off the train.

Re: rail racism...
 

She was obviously off her head. Quite a nasty person and people shouldn't be subjected to that abuse, made me ashamed to be British until I considered that actually it's a good sign how little people like her are tolerated. Even people who harbour racist thoughts consider it a matter of impoliteness to air them in such a vulgar fashion. Ironically, she has a poorer command of English than those she was abusing.

That said I am not sure how I feel about her being arrested. On balance I am probably ok with it but only because her racism involved abusing specific people in public.

Re: rail racism...
 

If my wife and I are on a train minding our own business we'll speak our native language thank you. I see no reason why we should be speaking English to each other just in case other people might be offended. Chances are they won't be able to hear us anyway. It would feel extremely contrived to switch to English.

Re: rail racism...
 

I trust thenry only ever speaks native when in public on his holidays then ...

Re: rail racism...
 

But then how am I meant to eavesdrop on your conversation? How inconsiderate of you :shocked:.

Re: rail racism...
 

You're not supposed to eavesdrop. We're talking about you...

Re: rail racism...
 

I knew it! :D There is an Indian family who run a newsagents and I am always paranoid they are talking about me when I go in there.

Re: rail racism...
 

You should see what they say about you on their blog and twitter feed....

Re: rail racism...
 

I was stood next to an Indian couple today, naturally I eavesdropped....................

I could only pick up the odd word....Fringe.....layered........perm......highli ghts........extensions.......bob.......mohican.... ....

Turns out they were talking..... Hairdo



I'm here all week..........OAPs and kids half price.

Re: rail racism...
 

unless someones on a holiday thats just arrogant. people living in a country should speak the said countries recognized language. may be I've been brought up in an old fashion way. its common courtesy to be honest.

Re: rail racism...
 

No it's not.

If you had guests in your own home and they excluded you from conversation by speaking in a different language, then fair enough. Ditto if you were a guest in their home. But out in public, such as on a train, people who have no connection with you whatsoever are under no moral obligation to speak a language you can understand.

Re: rail racism...
 

What if they speak Gaelic in Scotland or Welsh in Welshland?

Re: rail racism...
 

I can't believe you said that :shocked:

So are you saying that when you abroad that you speak the native language the whole time you are in public, so that you don't offend anyone??

---------- Post added at 13:30 ---------- Previous post was at 13:29 ----------

The only reason to want someone to do that would be to evesdrop on their conversation

Re: rail racism...
 

Sorry, but I disagree. It's extremely unnatural for me to speak English to my wife in a private conversation. When we're on a train, we're having just that. A private conversation. It would feel extremely awkward to do that in English.

Clearly, when there are other conversational partners we'll speak English, but I don't count complete strangers on the other side of a train aisle as conversational partners. I don't know how many languages you speak, but trust me, even after extensive experience, there is no substitute for native proficiency. I consider myself fluent in English, but my native command and vocabulary size is considerably better for the simple fact that I spent longer speaking it, and was educated in it.

Re: rail racism...
 

like I said if your on holiday its something you can't help but living within a country? I think you should speak the national language. The Welsh have their own language, their Wales not England, Scots do their thing, their within Scotland not England.

I'm from a mixed raced background and have been brought up to speak English in public. Within the comfort of your homes you can speak how you wish. May be thats old fashion now, may be its wrong, may be its right.

Re: rail racism...
 

So you're natively bilingual? That seems slightly different to me than having a native language and being fluent in a second language. Trust me, native language conversation is just more natural, and I'm not going out of my way and have an awkward conversation on the off-chance that a complete stranger might be offended by a conversation he or she is no party to.

Re: rail racism...
 

When I visit my family in Poland I wouldn't dream of speaking English in a group whether it be in the home or in public despite the fact that my cousins all speak fluent English. The elders do not and it would be rude to exclude them from the conversation as Daniel has mentioned in similar circumstances.

On the other hand one of my cousins does live here and again we speak Polish...her English is good but not as good as her husband's so it is the language we are all most comfortable with in a group conversation. What anyone else thinks is irrelevant.

Re: rail racism...
 

Why is it common courtesy? If you want to bring that into it, the language they are speaking is irrelevant as you shouldn't be listening to them.

Fair enough if you have invited someone somewhere and they sit there jabbering away in another language. That is rude.

Also, how would you feel if you heard someone on the phone? A friend of mine frequently switches to French on the phone, but that's only because she has some French friends who speak little or no English. She was bought up speaking both those languages, and Dutch so is fluent in all three. If she is in the pub with me and one of them calls, would it be rude of her to answer the phone in French?

Re: rail racism...
 

born and bred in the UK, I've grown up to read, write and speak English and have it as my first language. I can understand my 2nd, 3rd and 4th languages but have difficulty speaking those languages fluently. I cannot write or read in those languages either.

I completely understand what your saying but I just see it as rude. may be this multi culture thing has hit heights I never knew about and its no longer deemed rude.

Re: rail racism...
 

I don't mind people speaking in their own tongue. as long as it's not somewhere like a shop where they intentionally change to their tongue when you just know that the whole purpose is so that they can talk about you :)

Re: rail racism...
 

Couldn't they be talking about something personal to those involved in the conversation?

Sometimes, Gary, just sometimes, you aren't the centre of the Universe....

Re: rail racism...
 

No. you can sense these things.

That's alright, as long as it's just sometimes.

Re: rail racism...
 

Right. It might surprise you to know I haven't heard any Welsh spoken in 4 months.

People will communicate in whichever language they feel comfortable. My OH is British-Indian and when we're at her parents she dips in and out of English and Gujarat, depending on what point she's trying to make. Does it bother me? Not at all, I'm not paranoid.

Re: rail racism...
 

Best thing to do Russ is, pretend you're not taking any notice. and if they are talking about you then you'll see one of them looking over at you.

Re: rail racism...
 

alright I'm wrong, I'll happily hold my hands up and say sorry to anyone I've offended

Re: rail racism...
 

Amazing you know them better than I do, considering I've been with her for 2 and a half years.

Of course there is always the possibility that I couldn't care if they're talking about me.

Re: rail racism...
 

So English is your first language, so you speak English because that is the language you are most fluent in. Therefore you are more comfortable.

This is just the same for anyone else. They prefer to speak their first language.

Re: rail racism...
 

can someone please correct me, am I speaking from the far right?

Re: rail racism...
 

No, you just appear to have a strong opinion on this - some others agree with you, some others don't.

Re: rail racism...
 

Depends what angle I'm observing from.

Re: rail racism...
 

You've just admitted you were wrong. I've never seen anyone from the far right do that ;)

Re: rail racism...
 

Or from Cable Forum...

Re: rail racism...
 

well thankfully I'm not from the far right :D just old fashion oops:

Re: rail racism...
 

Stick S4C on, they're always at it.

---------- Post added at 15:16 ---------- Previous post was at 15:15 ----------

Do you have a skin and DMs, or come from Burnley?

Re: rail racism...
 

yes i have skin :D no seriously no skinhead, what are DM's? and no I'm not located in Burnley

Re: rail racism...
 

Doc Martens?

Re: rail racism...
 

no. I do have Timberlands though :D

Re: rail racism...
 

Personally, I don't get offended or paranoid when a person speaks in a language that I don't speak near me. Although I do have a Turkish friend who likes to speak in Turkish, then throw my name into the conversation just to try and wind me up.

What offends me is narrow minded people who sit there spouting off at anyone who has a slightly different skin tone that they aren't English, and don't belong on this island. Even if that person has lived here all their lives. Like that woman on the Tram.

Re: rail racism...
 

I think you have hit the nail on the head there.

The trouble is that many old fashion views were also sexist and racist, and so shouldn't play a part in modern society.

Re: rail racism...
 

That's an argument in itself. why can't someone have views on race (and not be accused of being a racist just because they have views) or be seen as sexist (just because they say something about the other sex) and the rest of society says it's not acceptable to have them views or be seen as sexist?

I think it's the case that we all have views about everything in life. but we are not allowed to share them amongst each other.

Re: rail racism...
 

If you think that's bad, I have a friend who is English but speaks fluent Portuguese, Spanish, and Tai. Well we were sat outside a bar in spain, chatting to his Brazilian girlfriend, and the Spanish bar owner.

Now this must have been very confusing for him, because he kept having to change language, and translate. And on occasions he turned to me and spoke in either Spanish or Portuguese (not sure which). So it was even more confusing for me, especially after a few drinks. :erm:

Well said :clap::clap::clap:

---------- Post added at 15:56 ---------- Previous post was at 15:51 ----------

Hey don't get me wrong, we are all individuals with different views, which we are entitled to. What is wrong is if we express those views in a way that may cause offence.......yes I have had the course.

I think that political correctness has gone mad. But we still shouldn't upset others.

Re: rail racism...
 

Absolutely spot on .I was bought up in what would be seen today as a very racist household .My father was always complaining when Idi Amin sent another plane load of "blackies" over here ,and why can't they speak English .Back then it was normal and probably a large proportion of the population felt the same .Fortunately those old fashioned views didn't rub off onto me too much as i left home at 16 (another old fashioned belief)

---------- Post added at 16:29 ---------- Previous post was at 16:22 ----------

Because that's how it works ,society as a whole make the rules .Society has deemed that taking other peoples possessions is wrong so we make laws and dish out punishment to those that do it ,society has deemed that some views about race are offensive so we have made rules and set limits .Wether you like it or not you are part of a society and there are limits as to what you can do or say

Re: rail racism...
 

I agree to a point. but society frowns on smoking. society can frown on it till it becomes bannned.

does that make society right?

you may society is right because it's made up of many people. and many more people outweighed the smokers. so therefore society is right.

but how many of that society just said ban it because they thought they would be an outcast if they said no to the ban?

who started the ban motion even?

could we have a country wide debate as to whether we should only allow certain people into this country. or has society said no already?

the answer is no we can't. because even the thought of having the said debate is a no even before you have even thought about it. anything to do with colour is a no.

because the thought before the thought is offensive before you even thought it :)

Re: rail racism...
 

If you check the video "my train experience" she's even worse, she can't even speak her own language properly.

Re: rail racism...
 

As you say, smoking hasn't been banned....however it has been banned in public buildings and workplaces, where it may be offensive to others.

This is just the same as using racist language, or other descriminatory (think that's how you spell it) language that others may find offensive, is also illegal.

So they all come under the same heading of 'likelyhood to cause offense to others'.

Re: rail racism...
 

Change that to 'a possible health hazard' and you're in the right area.

Re: rail racism...
 

alright time for a spanner in the works... what about nudity? I pretty much cannot watch anything around family now (hold back on jokes!) music channels, normal television. This isn't old fashion its decency yet its being accepted?

Re: rail racism...
 

Agreed. they're all just hypocrites.

have you had your boobs done Sue? no but I've got a vagazzle. and the gay one says lets have a feel of your fake boobs Jean while Sue tells us what's through the round window.

Re: rail racism...
 

the media are sly on this as well, they print it as 'shocking' but all the while egg them on

Re: rail racism...
 

Because sex sells.

it's good at getting the viewing audience things up too.

Re: rail racism...
 

Especially to those that aren't getting any.

In any case, she's pleading 'not guilty'.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-16051120

Curious...

Re: rail racism...
 

Aww Russ.

Did they give her time to sober up before they asked her?

Re: rail racism...
 

It is a possible health hazard, but that isn't the link. The link is that people can find them both offensive.

Re: rail racism...
 

In all my 37 years I have never heard of anyone being 'offended' by smoking :confused:

Re: rail racism...
 

Many people find cigarette smoke offensive. Especially if they are forced to inhale it because someone else in the room is smoking.

Re: rail racism...
 

Absolutely right.

Re: rail racism...
 

The thing is, so many people these days love to be offended for the sake of being offended (usually in the hope of getting a compensation cheque) that anything they don't like will be regarding as 'offensive'.

I've never smoked, never will and can't stand the stuff but I can honestly say I never have or will be 'offended' by someone smoking. Annoyed most probably but never offended.

Re: rail racism...
 

Well isn't that the same thing?

If someone doesn't like something that someone has done, without any regard to what may annoy other people. Then I would say that they are offended by it. Although you may choose to use different words to describe the same thing.

Most people find a bad smell offensive. Now if you don't smoke, and you hate the smell of smoke, then cigarette smoke can be as offensive as lets say a fart.

Re: rail racism...
 

Plenty of people on CF annoy me, very rarely do they offend me.

Re: rail racism...
 

Well you are obviously a laid back sort of person, who doesn't take offence easily. :)

Re: rail racism...
 

not racism but its rail related :erm:

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...Loco-hero.html

:D

Re: rail racism...
 

You don't mess with the big man :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uKDm...eature=related

Re: rail racism...
 

Pure dead brilliant. I wonder how wee Ned completed his 20 mile journey from Polmont to Edinburgh Park. :D

Re: rail racism...
 

Bet they felt awkward when they realise he did have a valid ticket after all. :erm::D

Re: rail racism...
 

Not according to the video he didn't.

He had a single from Edinburgh Park to Falkirk (I think - the audio is difficult). He was on a train from Falkirk to Edinburgh Park. The return journey. If he had the correct ticket, he clearly didn't show it to the guard there and then, otherwise there would have been no trouble.

The stop he was thrown off at, Polmont, is a couple of stops up the line from Edinburgh Park by the way. He had a long walk home in the dark.

Re: rail racism...
 

Nah I was joking. Although I kind of hope he does have a valid ticket because that would be more amusing.

Re: rail racism...
 

It's perfectly possible to be offended without being annoyed. It's also possible to be annoyed without being offended.

For instance, I find it offensive when somebody posts a link to that Let Me Google That For You, rather than just a link to the search results. It offends me because that site has quite a patronising tone. It also offends me because the person may already have googled their question, and found nothing useful, so registered with a forum in the hope of asking a human. It doesn't annoy me though.

But this is getting off topic.

Re: rail racism...
 

Re: rail racism...
 

Briliant. These fare dodgers need to be eradicated from the country!

Re: rail racism...
 

Along with people downloading copyrighted materials, presumably?

Re: rail racism...
 

Not as awkward as they'll feel being done for assault

He said he still has cuts and bruises over his cheeks (pictured above) and legs.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ain-train.html

Re: rail racism...
 

Note however that wee Ned seems content to talk to the papers rather than the polis.

Re: rail racism...
 

Just a few questions.

how does the old man normally deal with this kind of situation where there's a fare dodger that may be drunk, abusive, awkward, keeping other people waiting?

should more fat people get up and throw the person off the trains in this kind of situation?

do we praise the fat person for helping us get where we're going quicker, or because we don't like train companies losing money from fare dodgers?

is injury or assault ignored because of the circumstances?

is this the start of the beginning of the big plan of where society turns against each other?

Re: rail racism...
 

I don't see any evidence the injuries came from being removed from the train. :)

At the end of the day if the student wasn't being a drunken wee scrote or bothered to buy a valid ticket instead of trying to blag a return journey on a single he wouldn't have ended up being chucked off.

Re: rail racism...
 

My mate told me about this yesterday.

Apparently the guard had called the police, but people were getting angry about the train being delayed. I presume this was before the film started.

Re: rail racism...
 

It doesn't matter ,David Cameron gave him persmission ,he wants a "big society" where people don't rely on the government so much and look after themselves more ,so now he's got it

Re: rail racism...
 

He said: 'This big guy has basically thrown him head first on to the platform. Sam's landed on his face, and has a big graze


Hardly trying to blag a free ride was he and besides when I was last a regular train user the difference between single and return tickets was abour 10p.

Sam's uncle, who asked not to be named, claimed Sam did have a ticket, but it was the wrong one.

He said Sam went to the railway station at Polmont at 8am to buy a return ticket, but was told two singles would be cheaper as he planned to return off peak.

He said: 'He was sitting on the train when he noticed both tickets were for Polmont to Edinburgh Park, but he decided to concentrate on his exam and explain the mix-up to the inspector on the train home

I'd like to have seen the build up prior to the youth getting foul mouthed and fatso getting involved.

Re: rail racism...
 

My journey every morning is two stops distance, East Midland Trains, a single is £2.20, return is £3.30.

Why is this guy getting his uncle to speak for him? Sounds the same as when I was kid and the local trouble maker's parents refused to accept that their angels could do anything wrong and that everybody else had got it in for them.

Pretty much reckon that the little scroat is after a payout from the railway company. Otherwise as has been previously pointed out, he'd have been talking to the police.

Re: rail racism...
 

What someone says on behalf on the foul mouthed drunk isn't the same as evidence. :)

Or more likely student grant decided he could save £5.40 for drinking money and try and blag his way back. Why wouldn't a student who travels that journey every day not have a travelcard anyway?

From whats been mentioned it was basically 5 minutes of the conductor trying to get the student to show him a ticket and getting foul mouthed abuse in return before someone starts filming it.

Re: rail racism...
 

Fine. If he has a genuine complaint he needs to go through the proper channels. These don't involve verbally abusing the staff and running off bitching to the papers.

Don't get me wrong. I've seen how petty some ticket inspectors can be. I've also had rows with them when I've presented them a valid ticket and they've refused it, but I've never abused one.

On a side note, both times I've had arguements with Ticket Inspectors, I was right. I have my travelcard on an Oyster card. I also keep a few pounds pre-pay balance on that Oyster card (in case I end up in the middle of London with no money). The way you use Oysters requires that if you are using the pre-pay balance, you touch the card on the reader at the start station and at the end station. This is called "touching in" and "touching out". According to TFL, it's optional if you are using a travelcard. Both times, they've complained because their reader was saying that I hadn't "touched in" my card, and they ignored the next screen which said I had a valid travel card.

Re: rail racism...
 

At least he didn't assault the member of staff. from what I've heard the big fat man will have to be charged with assault if the yob presses charges against him. which is a bit unfair. but rules are rules. you can't break them willy nilly.

Re: rail racism...
 

It's about as good as what's been mentioned below then

I know there's a pretty good article on inspectors here and it's a tough job but also one that may attract the type of person that enjoys wheel clamping or traffic wardening.

---------- Post added at 20:14 ---------- Previous post was at 20:09 ----------

May well have changed since my days of using the Cambridgeshire trains 10 years plus ago, back then I'd buy a return even if I was pretty sure I wouldn't be needing it as the price difference was so low.

What would you do if it were your son? Take a video on face value or try to find out what happened for yourself, I know what I'd do but then I also know my son woudn't talk to people the way he did to without provocation.

Possibly but for all we know they may well have been talking to the police, they have been informed after all.

A spokesman for the British Transport Police said: 'We have received a complaint of assault. We are investigating the circumstances surrounding the incident and our inquiries are ongoing.'

Re: rail racism...
 

Only now, he wasn't interested before the clip went viral, in fact I'm pretty sure his explanation of how he came about his injuries didn't include him telling a conductor to *bleeeep* off.

I'd also imagine his new found desire for justice might have something to do with a criminal injuries claim or no-win, no-fee lawyer having a word about compensation.

Re: rail racism...
 

He can thank "The big man" and Youtube for that.

Re: rail racism...
 

I'm pretty sure you can't claim criminal injuries if you were involved in a criminal/ anti social activity when you were hurt or indeed if you have a criminal record for certain things.

Re: rail racism...
 

You could look at it from many angles Derek.

one being that the big fat man may not have known that he told the conductor to *bleeeep* off. and he came along and man handled the kid throwing him off the train from a height resulting in injuries being sustained.

another that we allow assaults on those that we pick and choose to.

the third one which is highly unlikely is that the big fat man seen an opportunity to be a hero.

all of which if an allegation of assault has been made then it will be followed through, and probably resulting in a compensation payout, and the possibility of an assault charge on the big fat man.

Re: rail racism...
 

So he didn't have a ticket then!!!

So why didn't he buy two tickets then??


You don't really believe his sob story do you?

---------- Post added at 09:27 ---------- Previous post was at 09:25 ----------

I'm not so sure about that. You hear about it all the time.

Re: rail racism...
 

Which is utter bollards and takes mere seconds to prove false. A peak return between Polmont and Edinburgh Park is cheaper than two singles.

This is exactly the sort of excuse that brain-dead Neds and their families come up with after the fact when someone has the cheek to catch them out.

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/at...1&d=1323946357

Re: rail racism...
 

We may also refuse or reduce an award because of:

• your behaviour before, during or after the incident in which you were injured
• your criminal record

http://www.justice.gov.uk/guidance/c...ible/index.htm

---------- Post added at 13:46 ---------- Previous post was at 13:44 ----------

Err he did buy 2 tickets, singles apparently and it's not so much whether I believe him as I think there may be more to it than has yet been reveled.

---------- Post added at 13:48 ---------- Previous post was at 13:46 ----------

I have been saying that all along, except when I used trains a lot the difference between single and return was negligible

Re: rail racism...
 

tbf, his uncle stated he did buy two tickets, and no further evidence has been produced to back up this hearsay.

Also, he didn't try to sort it because he had an exam, and instead of sorting it after the exam he went and got bloatered instead?

Occam's Razor does spring to mind (and not in a ned/chibbing interface scenario sort of way...).

Re: rail racism...
 

heres another... think the thread title needs changing now

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...s-web-row.html

Re: rail racism...
 

I hope the guy that pushed him off gets done for assault.

The dancer wasn't doing anything wrong - as far as I know its not illegal to dance on the tube.