Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & data
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16021240

Absolute disgrace by Cameron if this goes ahead. Talk about patient confidentiality. Cameron going too far now in the quest to try find a pot gold under his bed.

How will this great bright spark hair brained idea be policed. Aha new QUANGO regularity body will have to be done so firms dont abuse the information.

Then the argument whose the data is owned like artistical rights its my body so surely its my DATA not camerons to choose and sell. If they as example SELL MY DETIALS then should I not own those rights therefore its MY MONEY not NHS not Governments. The cheque in post should be coming to the door of my home. So surely there its my HUMAN RIGHT to tell cameroon to go where the sun dont shine.

Words fail me how cameron scraping the barrell.

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

Doesn't surprise me DVLA already sells information you legally have to supply.
this was why i was so opposed to the ID Card, you just know the government will end up selling this data.

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

You can opt out but you have to request it which is quite wrong but I for one will opt out if this foolhardy scheme ever sees the light of day as I would give any cold caller the very sharp edge of my tongue if they ever called me or contacted me in any way.

My medical records are mine and they are private and not for general perusal by any profit hungry group of sharks.

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

I for one will be opting out.

---------- Post added at 10:48 ---------- Previous post was at 10:46 ----------

Who gave the DVLA permission to sell our information ???


*************EDIT***************


Just found some info and it seems it was When Watchdog first revealed the DVLA was selling on your details, there was outrage and the then-Labour Transport Minister Stephen Ladyman was even forced to respond, saying,

"Some time ago I announced we were going to do a thorough review of the circumstances in which the DVLA release private information."


So it looks like the tories are not the only **** allowing this sort of thing to happen :mad:

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

I trust them as far as I could throw the Houses of Parliament and this proposed scheme proves how little you can trust any government in this country, I wonder if any of Cameron's pals have any vested interests in getting this information.

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

I won't be opting out.

Having had to use the NHS extensively in the recent past, I would be happy for my records to be used for research purposes. In fact during my treatment I agreed to students having access to me and my records to do this very thing.

If it helps save one life it's worth it. :)

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

How does one go about opting out?

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

My problem is that someone will make money from it and i can bet now we will see an increase in opportunistic phone calls from medical insurance companies, just like we have now from the "where there is blame there is a claim ****". They can get info on accidents and other stuff from the DVLA from what i heard.

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

Yes, there will be promises of 'robust measures put in place to ensure the use of the data is not abused' until some IT boffin manages to crack their security and shows up the government.

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

If i find out i will post it here i can assure you of that :)

---------- Post added at 11:02 ---------- Previous post was at 11:01 ----------

Or we have laptops with access info left on trains, Coffee shops.

---------- Post added at 11:04 ---------- Previous post was at 11:02 ----------

Just like other PM's have done. He's not alone in this

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

Don't see the problem myself,allowing existing data to be used for research will save a lot of time in the developement of new drugs .I don't see that knowing a persons name will be of any benefit to the company using the data ,and yes ,charge the hell out of the drug companies for using the data they make enough from the sale of the drugs developed

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

agreed all parties are ****.

Why should we jump hoops to prevent it let me see there no doubt will say you have to write to them to opt out.

However I got impression this your GP or NHS to decide not US with the article. Who to say if we opt out we are opted out to speak we could very well never know if those details been sold on.

Problem is how do they get around already regularity rules such as DATA PROTECTION ACT.

I liken this breach like what BT internet users had with PHORM and in the end it was forced to be OPT IN rather OPT OUT.

Surely they should do the same

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

:shocked: :spin:

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

Agreed anything like this should be an automatic opt out. Then if your happy to allow anyone they see fit (as long as they pay the blood money) to read all about you then you can opt in.

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

Indeed like I said there all **** look after there friends to hell with the electorate.

martyh I am suprised you dont see the alarm bells they are huge ringing. A company could sell on to sharks what safeguards are there no bogus company can get hold of it. Once the data out the control NHS it could be mal-used for unterior motives.

Its smokescreen fluff statement by our leaders to ally fears where data ends up. I dont even trust our Government civil servants they had enough lapsed stupid things go on over the years. Like the one where laptop was left in taxi. Tax man selling old pc's not wiped the data etc.

I think about time Data Protection has bit more teeth on regularity and government actions on personel data.

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

Data protection is fine until they see pound signs that's why i am shocked that isps are supposedly not selling users info and data trends they gather from dpi. :mad:

I don't agree with any Government giving anyone the right to sell my personal information to commercial companies

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

nah would have to be really desperate to sacrifice for blood money;)

Some I think would be quite happy to earn money selling there personal data but me would fear the identity theft.

Actually did'nt someone say in america people own there data can have full control whether to sell it on.

Sadly dont think we would ever see law change.

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

Potentially fine so long as anonymisation is done properly.

As you noted, mertle, the DPA covers personal data. Stripping the data sets of this makes it a non-issue.

Still let the paranoia reign, compared with some privacy violations into our life this is absolutely nothing.

I obviously won't be opting out as I couldn't care less who has anonymised data on my various ailments I've had to manage.

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

[QUOTE=mertle;35340202]

martyh I am suprised you dont see the alarm bells they are huge ringing. A company could sell on to sharks what safeguards are there no bogus company can get hold of it. Once the data out the control NHS it could be mal-used for unterior motives.
QUOTE]

The only thing i see is mass hysteria and paranoia.This proposal could be a valuable tool in the developement of new drugs.Yes safeguards should be in place to prevent abuse and i'm sure they will be but paranoia shouldn't prevent the developement of such a scheme

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

Thats quite distressful and disgusting shows likely where info would end up.

I have really bad foot injury which needs hospital care It happened from someone standing on me that is on record. So would expect injury claim **** phoning soon then. Never claimed as it was purely accident why should I.

Sorry sirius think you got my character wrong what I was saying if anybody should profit its surely should be US. I would rather the whole mess of selling personal information/details banned.

Do agree this worrying development where we heading

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

You do like using that phrase "****" don't you .Would they still be **** if they put a few grand in your back pocket ?:rolleyes:

The data ,any data ,belongs to the person/organisation that goes to the time and expense of collecting it and they can do with it what they wish within the law

Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & data
 

I have been subject to calls from a claim firm for the last 4 months over an accident i had in the snow last year. They know when, how and where, Registration number and type of both vehicles. They know the NAME of the other driver and then tell me i can claim against the other driver. They will not tell me where the info comes from but they do admit they paid for the information. Thing is the other driver was not in the car at the time as she was sat in her house watching telly and i slid into her parked car on a bend in a street. :dunce:

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

Actually dont see how personally as too much data information make it harder. Said pharmasuticals already have trials data past on IF THEY request it but only given if the patient and specialist or GP put that patient forward. I have in the past done so when new drugs for my health my GP asked if minded I said no. I then had to be checked very regularly vitals etc had to keep log.

They can therefore get the required information through proper channels. they dont need to buy it cannot understand why this policy needed.

The fact also we in climate at moment where research and developments in the pharmasutical industry being pegged back or even scrapped.

So dont see how this going to benefit this area at all.

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

So if claims companies can already get hold of such information this scheme will make no difference

Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & data
 

Point is where does it stop. I want this sort of thing to be an automatic opt out. If you don't mind you medical information being seen by all and sundry that's you decision. I don't what it seen by anyone but my doctor or medical staff treating me.

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

At the moment the drug companies use data from studies on patients who enter into drug trials .The proposed scheme (as i understand it) will allow the use of data gathered by the NHS over the lifetime of patients making the developement of treatments and drugs a much speedier affair

---------- Post added at 12:12 ---------- Previous post was at 12:04 ----------

I don't the see it matters myself especially given that the information will be nameless .

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

Sorry to hear that hope you told them where to shove there phone.

I hate the americanisation of our legal system think we have lost sight whats an accident today.

Accidents should never have air of get as much money from the perpatraitor should only ever cover costs unless extenuating circumstances.

We goto get away from this culture it only breads covers to sky rocket, vultures and tryers who fake to get £10,000 etc.

I had incident where a driver rolled into me thankfully she owned up to it but as we was only witnesses feared she would say I hit her. She had lad who tried to convince her to lie I overheared it little. Next she slapped him said it not the way brought you up:shocked::D

See there is sometimes honesty its rare though

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

Sheesh. From the story on the original post - emphasis added:

From the title of this very thread:

From mertle:

That's why it's anonymised.

By removing personally identifiable data through anonymisation.

Personal data is removed, records are to be anonymised.

Personal data is removed, records are to be anonymised. Impossible to steal identity with no personally identifiable information present.

Agreed, just as well this scheme doesn't involve it.

Is paranoia to be found anywhere on your records? ;)

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

My fear is it might start as anonymised but as soon as they see real ££££ to be made it will gradually change bit by bit as it has in the other information selling schemes

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

I'm not a grasser, but it was your car insurance company.

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

No its not i have already asked them. Additionally i opted out of there option to give selected companies my details.

Why would they sell info about a accident that was my fault and they have already paid out on to repair both cars considering i opted out of allowing them to do it.

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

They lied :)

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

Why should i believe ;)

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

Think logically about it :)
unless they were there to witness and take not of both reg plates, then the only way they could have got the info was from someone who has that info to sell them.

and that's your insurance company.

opting out don't mean bugger all. I opt out all the time but it's obvious that the company whether it be net based or whatever ignored it.

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

It seems to me that if there are pound notes to be earned or saved by this Administration (especially from amongst the rank and file) then privacy and any form of regulation except lip service will be thrown out of the window.

Rest assured that if enough people opt, out so earnings are affected, then a law will be passed to make compliance compulsory.

I would not be surprised to hear proposals concerning the unauthorised acquisition and sale of body parts for profit next if this trend continues.

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

All that will happen if this is allowed is that your home phone and mobile will see a increase in ambulance chasing companies trying to get you to claim through them, at least you can get software for your phone to block these scummy firms as I have installed on my own phone.

Here is the link http://www.truecaller.com/

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

According to that article:

- There is no information on whether they plan to charge for the data
- There is no information on opt-outs

But apart from that, feel free to vent your outrage over plans that have yet to be finalised, let alone implemented.

Clearly there are dangers and adequate safeguards must be set in place, but if the stated aim is to give a further advantage to the UK's life sciences sector by giving it access to data that will improve its ability to devise new treatments, what really is the problem? British business benefits and British hospital patients benefit.

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

As above getting hounded by these firms who will buy our details hence I will opt out at the first chance I get as will many other people once they realise the opt out is in place.

I do not want my private life interrupted by some ******* firm/s trying to make a fast buck from my personal details.

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

I don't believe there was any suggestion in the BBC report that packages of data would be available for sale to ambulance-chasing lawyers.

In fact I distinctly remember the proposal being limited to:

in order to
Everything else, at this stage, is idle speculation and party-political point-scoring. And on that note, let's not forget that the article also says:

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

It is a question of trust and I for one would not trust any such company having access to my records so I hope it falls at the first hurdle.

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

What such company? Are you still talking about the legal practices that nobody has suggested giving your data to, or are you now focusing on the medical research organisations that are in fact the subject of the article?

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

I personaly do not want any outside organisation having access to my medical records without my express consent just because the government is trying to make a fast buck out of mine or anyone else's details.

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

OK - so if it is eventually announced that there will be no charge for the use of the data, would you approve in that case?

Or what if a charge was made to cover the administrative costs of sending the data over and running a safeguarding scheme to prevent its misuse? Would you approve of that?

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

I'm sorry but i fail to see any connection or colaboration between ambulance chasing lawers and medical research facilities.Any research facility would have far too much to lose by passing out peoples personal information if they even get it in the first place

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

I do not want people like this ringing me because they have access to my medical records so I will opt out if this comes into being.

---------- Post added at 16:28 ---------- Previous post was at 16:27 ----------

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

+1:clap:

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

+1

:dozey:

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

Chris, you can't score your own posts. that's not how it works.

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

Get with the Zeitgeist, Gary. +1 isn't a score. ;)

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

You have to be amused by the paranoia over anonymised records being released to researchers here in the country with the most CCTV cameras per head, more even than China.

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

It is a question of trust and these people only have profits just like the ambulance chasers.

Now if it stipulates that any of these companies will be prosecuted and lose their licence for a single breach of confidentiality then that would be different but we know that that will never ever happen.

---------- Post added at 16:45 ---------- Previous post was at 16:43 ----------

Not really as a camera can only see but someone with my details could potentially try contacting me by bombarding me with numerous phone calls and texts.

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

There appears to be, imho, two separate conversations happening in this thread.

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

How could they do that, when the data is anonymised?

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

They are still unlikely to bombard me with phonecalls and texts saying "Hey we saw you in town" are they.;)

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

I take it you don't have or would consider using a Merseytravel Smartcard in that case?

You pay for all your shopping with cash and don't use any home delivery nor loyalty cards?

Your data is mined at a ridiculous rate, anonymised medical data is the least of the paranoid's worries.

---------- Post added at 16:53 ---------- Previous post was at 16:53 ----------

While a life sciences research company are?

EDIT: "Forget the multi-million pound, possibly billion pound sums we could make from using this data to research, let's sell it for a few pence per record to ambulance chasers."

Ya.

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

All you paranoids seem to be forgetting that all your personal details are already at the mercy of unscrupulous nurses ,doctors and admin staff within the NHS .

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

Being called a paranoid is a bit strong don't you agree Martyh.:(

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

nope ,some members have already decided that their personal information will be sold to the highest bidder without a shred of evidence .One would have thought that you with your various ailments would be up for this scheme if there is a possibility that it will result in better treatment in a more timely fashion or are you just happy to reap any benefits ?

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

Can they give my name to the Drug companies:erm:

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

Sadly I think 'paranoid' is a fair assessment, given the number of posts made in this thread on the basis of assumptions that are simply not backed up by any evidence whatsoever.

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

But we have seen these things before and our trust has been abused as we see by the many bits of private information that leaks out or gets misplaced in the wrong hands so l do not think paranoid is a fair assumption of many of us Chris .

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

care to give some examples of leaked personal info .Yes there have been cases where information has been lost or left on a laptop somewhere but to my knowledge none have led to a explosion of id theft or ambulance chasing lawyers .Most of your details i.e name address ect are already available anyway from the council register commonly sold to companies for mail drops and cold calling

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

Yes you can say that again as sometimes l get 4 or 5 instances of cold calling a week sometimes.:(

Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & data
 

so is this silly name calling allowed !!!


Agreed.

If it only ever goes out in anonymised versions then we don't have a problem that's true.

However we all know how over time we see the loosening of what was agreed where money has an influence. Money especially if its multi millions as one poster puts it has a lot of sway. Bottom line for me is i don't trust them to stay good to there word because there is potentially ££££ involved and history has seen goal posts moved by money.

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

Exactly.

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

Proof that your details are already out there then

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

Try to keep it grown up please :rolleyes:

They HAVE to have the data to do there job.

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

Yes and most of us are not happy about our details being used or abused in these ways.

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

Proof that big business finds a way to get the data if there is money involved. I know there is no proof yet that this will be sold but if the Government is involved then money will be involved.

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

Yeh, but think of the plus side. it might mean they don't put 1p on a litre of fuel, and the cost of fags only go up by 20p and not 30p :)

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

Oh Gary your words are the highlight of our day.:)

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

I sounds like a bonfire:erm:

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

Do remember this is personal choice and myself and many others would choose not to allow any access to our medical records whatsoever.

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

No, neither are they planning to.

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

Fags can go up for all i care, Nicotine is not a drug i am addicted to.

As for fuel if you think they will use this money should they get it to stop a fuel tax rise then your in cloud cuckoo land Gary.

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

So for those who felt we was too paranoid the data provided will include wait for it your Postcode's. Why because they want to give you loads JUNK MAIL.

It been proved its smokescreen why would need postcode if it anominious data they want for research & development. Clearly its likely will be past on with ambulance chasers, targeted junk mail.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16026827

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

Mertle, you cannot deliver anything to a house by postcode alone. Your postcode is also your neighbour's postcode. You share your postcode with, IIRC, at least a dozen other houses.

Will you please get off your paranoid, Tory-hating hobby horse and debate the facts.

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

erm, health (and many other) demographics are usually by postcode - socially and economically deprived areas usually have worse health trends and outcomes, and these are identified by postcode. This helps focus on the areas most in need.

LASOS SNS

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

As I posted earlier I don't have any problem with this.

If the worst case scenario for healthcare to improve quicker is me having to chuck a few f's at a twonk on the phone then the sport would be worth it. ;)

Anyway wouldn't this be covered by TPS registration?

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

I thought I'd hang fire commenting on this until I'd read more on actually what was being suggested.

What the government is suggesting isn't really anything new, I've been involved in similar information sharing for around 18 years and I'm sure others are too, but I must express that this was with my own consent to each of them, which I think is the important part of all this.

my first involvement was around 16 years ago aged 29, when I consented to having some of the bone removed during my hip replacement for research, into the effects of RA on joints. I consented, as I'm always keen to improve medical knowledge so that in the future these sort of things will be better understood. I've donated other bone samples since during various other bionic upgrades and I'm currently involved in a study into the effects of long term inflammation and the increased risk of cardio vascular disease and stroke, which is being done with the various rheumatology units across the UK and Europe and the University of Manchester.

I feel that the most important thing in all this is that being involved in any kind of medical research is on an opt in basis and this consent is given by the patient for each research project, and not a universal opt in.

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

Exactly my concerns and reason enough to opt out as with this information it will be possible to be targeted by these companies and it should be opt in not opt out.

If believe the case to be any different then you must be deluded to think this will not happen as once they pay for the information they will be able to do whatever they want with it.

Do you really want unwanted advertising texts and phonecalls and possibly even spam emails in your inbox from these firms because I for one do not want that as it will be an invasion of my privacy.

Nothing will persuade me this is a good thing, back in the day when we had paper driving licences the DVLA used to put organ donation sections onto the licence which were removable and I removed them every time, oddly even these were removed after a few years as it was an invasion of privacy.

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

I take it the thought of just why a life sciences company would risk continued access to this information by working to de-anonymise the data then spamming some residences of private individuals whom they can't engage directly regarding prescription drugs hasn't occurred?

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

Personally, I don't see a problem as long as the information is anonymised. It sounds like this is formalising something that actually already goes on in the various university hospitals. It's also something that, whether you are aware of it or not, may have saved your life.

The NHS has worked with outside medical companies for a long time to develop and refine treatments, drugs and medicines. Part of this is sharing patient data. They have to. Without patient data, the companies have no way of knowing if their treatment is working.

Not only does it help to develop new treatments, but the companies do pay for the results.

I will admit to a slight bias here, as my sister's life was saved because the hospital used a then experimental procedure, the bulk of the cost of which was paid by the company that supplied the equipment used during the procedure (they needed to see how well it performed in a real life situation).

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

"Thought" has played little part in this thread so far. Tory-bashing paranoia is much more fun, apparently.

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

l have never at any attempt made one Tory bashing comment in this thread and nor have some others Chris so its a bit OTT to throw that accusation around.:erm:

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

Not bashing anyone I would not trust any government who chose to allow this to happen.

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

However, some people have assumed that their details will simply be sold on to an insurance company or lawyer rather than the stated aim, which is actually more profitable (hence more logical) as it could result in earning a lot of money from the sale of treatments. The example I gave of my sister. The hospital could have made some money selling her details to an insurance company or lawyer. They could (and did) make a lot more money by developing a new treatment in conjuction with the company who provided the equipment required and may well own patents on that treatment (which would ensure ongoing profits).

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

Ah, but allow *what* to happen, exactly? Most of the speculation in this thread has been about the prospect of lawyers junk-mailing sick people on the basis of data bought from the NHS. Something that simply was not part of the announcement made by the Coalition.

It's not surprising of course, the thread was started by a member of this forum who seems to spend rather a lot of time scouring the internet for stories that back up his prejudices (or, if read with eyes half shut, could be made to back up his prejudices), which really rather got it off on the wrong footing.

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

I had already seen this on the early morning news on the day the thread was originally posted so had already formed my opinion well before he started this thread, and as I say it is personal choice and I do not trust any company that wants my private details without asking my express permission first, not that it matters as I would still refuse them access.

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

Personel attacks uncalled for all I am concerned why this even needed. I posted it for people to see to make there own minds up. Just because people got similar views of concerns too, so what its there opinion I did not influence theres.

Thats what forum is for is it not. Naturally not everyone agree with views. Fine you dont agree with views but personal attacks is lowest lows.

I have not gone out to attack you. Why should I let things go.

I have in the past consented the industry went through PROPER channels to require the DATA and the people for subjects to test there product.

I was invited after GP contacted me infact maybe doing more trials yet doc not sure though whether to put me forward for this. Lot of sacrifices as would have to go away for awhile to this clinic. Test could be 6 months to 12 months its big commitment.

Infact I was test subject for few years on various trial treatments. Most failed horridly but latest works and became major player in the easing of sufferers.

Even Ravenheart showed there is already system in place for these companies. Dont think wise to drop protection doubt this will even quicken anything up.

You cant cut corners in testing its too dangerous it takes years to test in labs on animals before human tests. The human trials takes long time too any shortcutting would be very dangerous.

There is tests which get refused too risky or for reason like not been tested enough would they get go aheads without the protection. Lets not forget those students who died trialing a drug. Drop those safeguards we could be in unknown world.

For the system to work they need the correct data but they need the patients too for there trials. If its anomynous how would they contact the GP/specialist to ask for that person in human trials.

There flaws in the whole idea some little nasty unknowns.

Some will accept with question governments are afterall angelic in there policies never have stinging tails.

Another why need that postcode why do they need them if its demagraphics then simply Mr Smith from nottingham should be enough.

Postcodes could be way to find you for sure in some places it might not in others it would lead you right to your doorstep.

With using 192.com you could find the individual when knowing AGE. You could match the person.

As not selling details afterwards I had phone from medical company who was selling products for my illness. Everyone I talked to denied selling as they complied with my none third party request. I could only conclude it was boots or the trials company. I was anoyed that someone breached there remit.

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

They aren't going to drop protection :rolleyes:

what corners are going to be cut ?

bloody hell, talk about going off at a tangent that has absolutely no connection to thread whatsoever

you have totally failed to grasp what is being proposed .All that is being proposed is that life science companies can access test results and results of treatment when a particular drug has been used they don't need to know the person they don't need to even see them

NO ,NO ,NO ,It wont be Mr smith from Nottingham they don't need that information it will be patient A from NG (NG being the post code for Nottingham) and postcodes are a way of showing demographics

In very rare circumstances ,i.e the house of commons or a farm in the middle of nowhere where there are only 2-3 buildings within that postcode .Anyway all the postcode info and who lives there is already available and commonly sold by your local authority to marketing companies ,that's how you get junk mail and marketing calls now

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

I live in the middle of nowhere and even here there are not unique postcodes for domestic premises. Every building for a mile either side of us shares the same postcode. AFAIK unique postcodes generally are given to individual business premises that receive a lot of mail.

---------- Post added at 19:21 ---------- Previous post was at 19:11 ----------

No personal attack, simply an observation that is very relevant to the batty and at times plain nonsensical direction this thread has taken. In your OP you said ...

... right after linking to a story that made very clear indeed that there was no information about charges (or 'a pot gold' (sic) as you put it).

You followed it up with this:

... despite the story you originally linked to very clearly being a story about life sciences organisations getting anonymised data to allow them to improve research and bring new drugs to the NHS more quickly, and *not* a story about personal injury lawyers buying access to your data in order to send you junk mail or make unsolicited phone calls.

The fact that you regularly go out of your way on this forum to put the boot into the current government, even when your claims have the slenderest relationship with the actual facts, offers a reasonably good explanation as to why you should behave in this way.

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

A few years ago i followed my satnav to a postcode address in the remote regions of cumbria only to be told on arrival that it was the wrong house and i wanted the one nearly a mile away with the same postcode

anywhoo i found this from the Royal Mail for the tin foil hat brigade

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

Yep, we frequently get that here. Although as we know which building the sat navs generally take people to, it's easy for us to give them directions when they phone us up. :D

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

I work in the Life Sciences sector and know a little about how patient data is handled. Most companies follow the guidelines set up by the US known as HIPAA. These are pretty much the toughest guidelines out there and also the biggest single pharmaceutical market. There are of course regional variations (for example personal data from Belgium cannot leave the EU) but they mostly follow the HIPAA model.

Trust me, the penalties for HIPAA violations are harsh. Violators risk huge fines, emprisonment and potential closure of a countries market. The facility that handles patient data is incredibly secure!

Also, patient data is shared with pharmaceutical companies now with Adverse Drug Reporting and the like.

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

I would OPT IN as long as its never used for profit, ie any company making money shouldnt get such info.

Been OPT OUT is wrong in my view.

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

It should not be Opted in by default as that is quite wrong as it is my personal data they want and I will opt out at the very first opportunity I get as it is as far as I am concerned illegal as I have not signed any disclaimer.

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

seems not ours aparantly property of Secretary of State for Health. this full legal position of NHS records.

Apparantly Circle who doing cambridge hospital cant access the records under the current system rules. Maybe why government changing it. Who fault that they caused the issue allowing private sector in. I suspect that the real reason not the one they championing.

http://www.alexanderharris.co.uk/New...gislation.aspx

Re: Private health firms could be given access to anonymous NHS patient records & dat
 

You appear to be talking out of an inappropriate orifice. ;)

When you turn up at a hospital for the first time (say, at A&E), if you have not previously visited that hospital, they will not have any medical records about you (which was what part of the NHS IT transformation was about, allowing access to a patient's medical history at the time and place of treatment).

I have been treated a private hospital, and they ask your permission to access your medical records in order to treat you appropriately (and understand the implications of your medical history on the current treatment), and liaise with your GP on this. You could, of course, refuse this permission, but I am pretty sure they wouldn't treat you then....