1 week in, my initial thoughts...
 

I had TiVo (as well as VM Broadband and a VHD box) installed last Tuesday and I just thought I would share my initial thoughts on the service and equipment, although I want to concentrate mainly on the TiVo.

Please bear in mind I am coming from Sky and had no issues over the two years I was with them, so that it is the service I am comparing VM too.

First impressions...

The service from the installation team was very good. They arrived in the specified window, did a very tidy install and put things exactly where I wanted them. Let's just say my Sky install wasn't as satisfactory... :erm:

The VHD box is fine and is essentially the same as my parents V+ box so it has a familiar interface and is easy to use. Still think it's weird it has the V+ remote though!

The TiVo fired up first time and downloaded the latest software and so far I haven't had the "lights of death", but...

...it has needed resetting twice. Once when it just completely froze and the other when it stopped showing the TV window in the top right hand corner when you are in the Home menu. That's about has many times as I had to reset the SKy+ box in the last year.

iPlayer seems to work well, although it's search facility is pants so it's easier to go backwards in the EPG than try and find a show from within it.

I'm not keen on the remote. For a start, because of it's shape you can't tell which end you are pointing at the TV without looking at it! I rarely had to look at the Sky remote.

I put down 5 episodes of "Peppa Pig" to record for the kids and it recorded "Ben & Holly" instead. This may have been a late change by the broadcaster (which I find unlikely), which just shows why the EPG data and updates are all important, but I am more inclined to think the box just messed up.

I don't think either the SD or HD picture quality is as good as my Sky+ box, which I still have plugged in so I can make a direct comparison between channels.

I don't like the secondary menus which are a bit like SD compared to the HD look of the main Home screen. That's just laziness.

So far (apart from Peppagate...), it has recorded as promised and hasn't missed any programmes.

The Wife thinks it's too complicated (e.g. there are too many button presses to complete simple tasks), which just confirms to me why Sky+ is so popular, and I can understand why some people simply won't want what TiVo can offer.

The search works well although when you delve in deeper you quickly run out of decent info on shows and actors if they are not really mainstream.

I haven't tried the YouTube app.

I won't be trying Millionaire as I think I have to pay for it.

I won't be trying Spotify as it doesn't interest me.

At certain times of the day it is much slower at changing channel and we often get the little info box pop up saying "This channel is not available..." or words to that effect before it eventually comes on. In all the rain, wind, sleet and snow I have never had that issue with Sky.

The Suggestions it has recorded are fairly obvious things but it is still early days.

I have set up a Wishlist for the keywords (Treasure Island) hoping to catch the new Sky 1 show when it launches. Time will tell if this works as so far it only wants to record an episode of Dora the Explorer, but I assume this is because it relies on the EPG data and there is no broadcast info for this new show yet.

The Superhub was easy to set up although it's actual speeds have fluctuated between 10MB and 26MB. I'm paying for 30MB which the hub seems to sync at but never deliver.

Overall I would say as a package it's OK and I am relatively happy but I need to get a better router and VM will need to work hard to continue tweaking the TiVo to make it better still.

"The best way to watch TV, ever...". Not yet it isn't, but it's a reasonable start.

Re: 1 week in, my initial thoughts...
 

Yeah, that's pretty similar to the conclusion I came to when I first reviewed the box.

The thing which bothers me most about the way VM have handled the TiVo is not giving new customers the option to choose the older V+ HD box. Basically if you want any PVR functions the only thing you can do is have the TiVo, which is far too complicated for most people who just want everything done with a couple of button presses.

A good tip with WishLists is make sure you mention one of the lead actors who will be in the show/movie you want and TiVo will have on file when the program becomes available. For example, if I just request "Castle" as the title keyword looking for the 2009 NBC comedy/drama series it'll record kids shows and Takeshi's Castle which I already have series linked on another channel. But if I keep the same title keyword and add "Fillion, Nathan" as an actor it won't record anything until that show starts airing again on one of my package channels.

The Super Hub is a complete POS, I'd recommend requesting a VMNG300 if it starts giving you grief.

Re: 1 week in, my initial thoughts...
 

I'd request that your TiVo be replaced. My old one rebooted on the odd occasion until the update arrived. That well and truly killed it off!

I'm inclined to believe the previous reboots were the signs of an underlying fault from day one.

When our TiVo first arrived my thoughts about everything being long winded were the same as yours. Over the course of the last 8 months or so though it's become second nature to the point where everything else seem overly simplistic and restrictive. :)

Re: 1 week in, my initial thoughts...
 

I went the other way from VM to Sky I personally find Sky+HD more difficult to use. Basic stuff like only the first episode of a series record highlighting in red and no other episodes showing as set to record (even though they will) is annoying sometimes.

For me V+ is the best pvr I have ever used as it is just so simple to use. Tivo was nice too but not for the whole family as I was the only one interested in the extra features and everyone else found the complexity annoying.

Re: 1 week in, my initial thoughts...
 

The stigma around TiVo is that it is for nerds, that might not change. You should see the TiVo Community Forum thread when the new Premiere Elite came out... within hours a couple of members had taken theirs apart and started making notes on the motherboard. :p:

Re: 1 week in, my initial thoughts...
 

Most people was just get used to how a TiVo does things after a few months. There is always a learning curve when getting a new piece of AV kit. If my wife can use it the I know it has passed the simpleton test.

As for the router you can put it into modem mode and use your own router which is what I have done and works fine.

Re: 1 week in, my initial thoughts...
 

It's likely you knocked the SLOW button on the remote. this toggles the Video window on/off.

Re: 1 week in, my initial thoughts...
 

A nicely balanced OP. I think the TiVo box is more complicated to use initially than sky+ or indeed a v+hd box. To me this is similar to much other equipment such as mobile phones eg comparing a smartphone to a standard mobile. Many more options and buttons to press on the smartphone, but also much more capability and user defined options
. Some of the features on the TiVo are great (wish lists, search function, use of 3rd party tech to interact with the TiVo) but with this is definitely a greater investment of learning how to use it and the odd function that is not as accessible as it could be.

What i am encouraged by is the last software update, which suggests that VM are responding (all be it not as fast as some would like) to people's suggestions and issues. If this continues then I think the TiVo will be a great pvr. Not there just yet but promising already.

Re: 1 week in, my initial thoughts...
 

Any changes have to be fully tested, it would be madness to push an untested update every few weeks :)

Re: 1 week in, my initial thoughts...
 

Are you talking about a beta trail ?

Re: 1 week in, my initial thoughts...
 

I don't get this more complicated to use stuff.

If you just want to watch the TV guide fair enough it works like that.

if you want to delve deeper you can, tremendous amount of info on actors etc.

what is the actual complication?

Re: 1 week in, my initial thoughts...
 

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

Re: 1 week in, my initial thoughts...
 

Some people find the fact that there are certain aspects of the Tivo that they cant control as making the PVR more complex.

Re: 1 week in, my initial thoughts...
 

No l agree as after the first couple of days its like riding a bicycle.

Re: 1 week in, my initial thoughts...
 

So in other words not got a brain.

Re: 1 week in, my initial thoughts...
 

It's a PVR nothing more nothing less , the majority couldn't care less they just want their favourite shows recorded, something TIVO , V+ , Sky+HD and many freeview recorders do. Forums like this will always have tech fanatics like us however the vast majority of people look for simplicity.

Re: 1 week in, my initial thoughts...
 

I just don't get it.

My first reaction to Tivo was wow look how much more TV it opens up to you

How many times have people sat and said where have i seen his face? - now you can check :tu:

I couldn't believe how lmited and old fashioned it made the Sky interface look.

Re: 1 week in, my initial thoughts...
 

Indeed.:clap:

Re: 1 week in, my initial thoughts...
 

Agreed :clap::clap:

Re: 1 week in, my initial thoughts...
 

Us mere mortals have to suffer with the IMDb app on our smartphones :) Damn outdated PVR's :D

Re: 1 week in, my initial thoughts...
 

That is a very good point.

Re: 1 week in, my initial thoughts...
 

Yes its like chalk and cheese as many people do just like just a simple PVR.

Re: 1 week in, my initial thoughts...
 

that come with the PVR does it?:D

Re: 1 week in, my initial thoughts...
 

I wish :D

Re: 1 week in, my initial thoughts...
 

I like chalk and cheese, but which is better?

you can tell that I'am simple? (just using words)

Re: 1 week in, my initial thoughts...
 

Just because you're a fan boy doesn't mean people that disagree with you have 'not got a brain'.

In fact that statement probably applies to you than most on this forum considering your fanboy antics are leading you to forget what the core functions of a PVR actually are.

You are the same person that once linked to your own post from another thread (which was pure speculation) and then presented it as fact. If that isn't stupid then I don't know what is.

Re: 1 week in, my initial thoughts...
 

Well this is right up there with your most useful posts,:rolleyes:,when are you going to get the message???

Re: 1 week in, my initial thoughts...
 

What's beautiful about Tivo, or at least will be once Virgin sort out express series links and one touch record, is that it really can be as simple or as complicated as you want it to be.

For me, it's biggest strength is the way it integrates content from a variety of sources, but that's possibly because I watch a lot of on demand stuff. As a result, I make a lot of use of the search and browse functions.

If you just want it to be a pvr then you could just use the "guide", "r" and "my shows" buttons for one of the simplest pvr experiences you could wish for. But, as you well know, Tivo can be much more than "just a pvr".

I'd just like to place on record my thanks to the OP, and those who have posted similar reviews. TiVo falls down in my opinion on the amount of instructional information available from Virgin, which is a big reason, I think, why people consider the product so complicated. Threads like this are invaluable sources of information.

Re: 1 week in, my initial thoughts...
 

Personally, for me it's the five or six times you have to click View Show when you want to view a show from CatchUp after having found it in Browse TV.

It's the hidden meanings for vital buttons or as some others have found accidentally hitting a hidden meaning button and not knowing what it was.

It's the incredibly slow paging up and down in My Shows (this has got better with the update but is still painful).

It's the fact that you have to set Series Link options every single time you set one up (incredibly tedious but I think this may have been fixed in the new update I haven't checked yet).

It's the fact that sometimes when you delete a show about a third of your My Shows disappears until you reset the TiVo (thank the update for that one).

It's the fact that you have to enter your PIN code nearly every time you want to watch a show from My Shows sometimes even if the show was broadcast in the late morning or early afternoon depending on repeat times!!!.

Don't get me wrong I, like others, have got used to these complications and worse picture quality and for me they are now no longer an issue (and a small price to pay for the benefits of having a TiVo), but I'm just saying that newcomers might find these things overcomplicated initially.

Personally, the fact that I can set a wishlist for a director/actor is itself worth all the failings of the TiVo. That facility is just magic.

Re: 1 week in, my initial thoughts...
 

The picture quality isn't worse when watching HD channels after recalibrating the picture via your TV remote control and I'd well recommend everyone having TiVo installed take the time to do this.

Re: 1 week in, my initial thoughts...
 

Believe me Alex, I tried to convince myself the same thing after I got my Tivo, I spent a week trying all different settings all the time telling myself, well it's not quite as bad now. Then I go round a friend's house with a budget 32" TV and an SA V+ and I see straight away how pin sharp the HD used to be when I had my SA V+. The fact is that HD is slightly blurred on the Tivo, whether this is deliberate or not I don't know, certainly some people don't seem to mind the softer HD as much. I prefer it pin sharp. It's just personal perference.

Re: 1 week in, my initial thoughts...
 

I have a Sammy plasma and switched off the mpeg filtering and Digital noise reduction and increased the sharpness to 80. I hope this might help. I have a SA V plus box in another room so might swap them over and see what you mean. Also and most importantly ensure you TV is set to show the whole picture with no over scan. The setting you use may say screen fit or 1:1. This dramatically improved the picture quality on my plasma.

Re: 1 week in, my initial thoughts...
 

that is no real test for how sharp HD pictures are.

Re: 1 week in, my initial thoughts...
 

My thoughts are well documented in other posts. How ever here they are again.

Good points -its smaller.
it holds more programmes.

Bad points - no reminders. No red button ( you all know what I mean I am sure)

It can cost more per month ( Ok again not for me)

Sum up I would stick with the V+ if it was the only PVR I had, and NO way would I pay more for it. Over hyped & over here to coin an old phase. Sorry but as yet it has not changed my mind. O yes the picture is FINE !!!:p:

Re: 1 week in, my initial thoughts...
 

Full red button/interactive service will be available on Tivo by end of Q1 next year (by the end of march)
http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/35...-post5770.html


You could be waiting a while for reminders IMO. ( I do not care either way)

Re: 1 week in, my initial thoughts...
 

I don't know, you go away for a few days and all hell breaks loose... :D

I've let the Wife know some of you think she doesn't have a brain and she deems it the opinion of an uninformed, narrow minded idiot, and I tend to agree.

Contrary to common gadget geek opinion, the vast majority of PVR users are a long way off caring about the additional functionality the TiVo can provide because they don't need it or (understand why they would) want it.

All they are interested in are series links that work, an EPG that is accurate, recordings that are easy to access and for things to work as quickly as possible.

So it's important that the TiVo does the basics as quickly and reliably as possible because *NEWSFLASH*, most people ain't like the rest of us techno freaks! :shocked:

Get the fundamentals right and users will warm to the other functions over time.

Telling people they must be stupid if they think TiVo is more complicated than what they are used to or even need is just rude and quite frankly childish.

Agree 100%.

And Virgin Media must remember that in everything they do with TiVo. Yes it can be/is the most powerful PVR on the market but that doesn't mean it's the best.

Arguably the best is the one everyone knows how to use because if you want to succeed in pay TV your PVR product needs to be simple and easy to use for the majority.

If TiVo becomes as simple as Sky+ to use yet still has all the added advanced functionality that many of us like then it could be a real winner.

Thanks for that useful information, I think that is what happened as I didn't realise the button had a dual purpose... :doh:

Not often!

I'm not being facetious, honestly, but this illustrates my point perfectly, just because that extra functionality is important to you and some others, it doesn't mean that every PVR owner is drooling over the idea.

I agree the look is very pleasing on the eye, however the SD menus (or whatever you call them) are yuk and should be removed ASAP.

Re: 1 week in, my initial thoughts...
 

It was not the best words to use , sorry. I just think it is not complicated. It is easy use once you get used to it.

Re: 1 week in, my initial thoughts...
 

She said "apology accepted", but she wasn't upset really (it is just an anonymous internet forum after al!), but trying to make a point that it's easy to make assumptions based on how you are coming at something and not considering that other people don't view a product in the same way. ;)

I don't think it is complicated either, but then I like to tinker.

Re: 1 week in, my initial thoughts...
 

I have now used V+HD , TIVO , Sky+HD and BT Vision , in my eyes the Sky+HD box is easily the most intuitive with the V+ a close second , TIVO is great and the many available features are great but if it's a simple intuitive PVR you want then in my opinion Sky+HD and V+ take some beating.

Re: 1 week in, my initial thoughts...
 

Couldn't agree more.

My parents have had a V+ for about 2 years now, do you know how much stuff they have recorded in that time?

Nothing, nada, zilch, zero!

They do use the Catch Up TV though so it's not like they don't get what the box can do, they just don't feel the need to use it that way.

Re: 1 week in, my initial thoughts...
 

A beautifully succinct explanation of TiVo technophobia. Good job!

Oh, I'd argue it's far more than that. I have a Humax FoxSat PVR and while it's a great unit (allows transfer of recordings too) compared to a TiVo it's nowhere near as useful or fully featured. The WishList feature alone makes TiVo a more powerful platform.

Exactly. As I've mentioned already, before TiVo I couldn't watch broadcast TV at all.

I think the problem could partially lie in age and previous experience with technology. To generalise a bit, your average person in their mid-forties or older tends to have trouble moving away from the broadcast schedule TV model. Indeed, when I lent my TiVo to someone else in the house who was considering getting another on the account and fits that age range, they didn't make a single recording or use the catchup facility even after I'd provided them with the manual and given them a whistlestop tutorial of fairly rudimentary TiVo features. Not once in the whole month. They just couldn't get their head around the whole "on demand via streaming or recording" thing that TiVo does.

Probably never. It's amusing that he is quite often guilty of the very thing he accuses other people of so bluntly.

And the tragedy is most people who would find the information so useful aren't the type to browse forums, either.

Yeah, that's one I need to add to the list of improvements thread. The "SMS style alphabet entry" model you get from the search TV option should extend to My Shows. Even the USB keyboard letter do nothing, when in fact they should jump to the letter you've selected. Big oversight, that.

TiVo has a softer picture through the HDMI, in my opinion. I cranked the Sharpness control up to 100 (maximum) on all four of the TV display modes (they include these things so you can have a nighttime setting, a daytime setting etc) and now the TiVo is just as pin sharp as the Cisco V+ HD box was when the Sharpness was at about 50-60.

Correct TV calibration is just as important as any other factor when reviewing the image quality of a given device. I've been able to make even an old Amiga look pretty decent through the SCART socket of my Samsung LCD with tweaking of the many picture settings it offers, especially stuff like White Balance to make sure the colour gamut/temperature is closer to correct.

"...and now she complains of a headache when I'm trying to get my leg over..." :D

Oh he does that often. You get used to it. It helps if you chide him a bit. ;)

That'll be written on my bloody tombstone, mate. So do I!

Re: 1 week in, my initial thoughts...
 

I fully agree re it's many features , I suppose it's down to the individual punter how important these are , the more tech minded will love them were some will think its overkill. On my recent use of TIVO I liked the advanced features and can see how they would be useful , guess its down to the individual.

Re: 1 week in, my initial thoughts...
 

I was only trying to get the remote and thought she was asleep... :erm::D

And of course the flipside of something so simple as Sky+ is that for us tinkerers it is too simple, we want extra functionality to play with, we need more toys.

Re: 1 week in, my initial thoughts...
 

I quite agree. I almost wish there was a "basic" mode which strips the interface right down to the core features and apps, all on one page. Looking through the F11 SD menu relic from the US TiVo boxes, there is something called KidZone; maybe if that were adapted to be fitting to all age ranges, the learning curve could be reduced for the more luddite among VM's customer base.

That's your story and you're sticking to it! :D

Too true. When I lent the TiVo to someone else in the house for a month to see if they liked it, what I missed the most was fiddling around with settings and features to see what I found useful. Even now, learning how to create better WishLists etc is often more fun than what those lists actually record!

Re: 1 week in, my initial thoughts...
 

you don't often think i really enjoyed that film , i wonder what other films they have appeared in/directed?

I don't believe you.

Re: 1 week in, my initial thoughts...
 

Nope.

C'est la vie. :)

Re: 1 week in, my initial thoughts...
 

I know that wasn't directed at me, but all the time. The reason I got into that USA network show Suits is because Gina Torres (Zoe from Firefly) and Christopher Tyng (music/score for Futurama) were involved. Having the TiVo do that almost automatically on a whim is a great feature.

Re: 1 week in, my initial thoughts...
 

absolutely.

thank God he wasn't designing HTTP, "this other stuff that is closely related to the page you're on?"

"nah you won't be interested" :shocked: :D