George Osborne's autumn statement 2011
 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/blog/20...statement-live


Well these are the main bits to take out of the autumn statement today and pretty grim reading it is too but what are your opinions on it.

• 2011 growth forecast cut to 0.9%
• Pension age to rise to 67 by 2028
• Bank levy increased to 0.088%, raising £2.5bn
• OBR predicts 710,00 public sector job losses by 2017

A delay in a 3p rise in fuel duty to come into effect in January;

A new public pay cap at 1 per cent for two years;

A freeze in working tax credits;

A £40billion credit easing scheme to help small firms;

A £5billion cash boost for over 500 infrastructure projects – including roads, railways, airports and broadband expansion. A further £25billion could be spent in future years;

A trimming Britain’s foreign aid budget so that it does not overshoot its 0.7 per cent spending target by 2013;

An increase in the Bank levy to raise £2.5billion;

An extra £1.2bn will be spend on education - including £600m for authorities that need new school places;

Rail fares capped at 1 per cent above inflation next year;

A £1billion fund to help the young unemployed;

Mortgage indemnity scheme to help 100,000 people get onto the property ladder;

£500m housebuilding plan in England;

January rise in regulated rail fares to be capped at 6.2%, not 8.2%;

A £250million scheme to ease the impact of climate change taxes on energy intensive firms;

£380m to double free nursery places for toddlers

Re: George Osborne's autumn statement 2011
 

Worst...Budget...Ever...!

Re: George Osborne's autumn statement 2011
 

Why?

Re: George Osborne's autumn statement 2011
 

Because the price of fags is going up.

Re: George Osborne's autumn statement 2011
 

no no no Garyl one doesn't pay for a fag is a right of tradition

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fagging

Re: George Osborne's autumn statement 2011
 

Says you :rolleyes:

Re: George Osborne's autumn statement 2011
 

probably the best we could expect ,and overall not too bad .For all those nay sayers out there just remember he could have put income tax up by 2p

Re: George Osborne's autumn statement 2011
 

I thought that Gordon was back after the comments from Nick, Robert and Stephanie:D:D:D

Re: George Osborne's autumn statement 2011
 

Pension thing the most bizzare stupid idea's in my opinion has no thought about the kind job which being undertaken or could be undertaken.

Take teacher in school hardly going to be wanting to try deal with brats at 66 bad enough when they coming to the end of pensionable age now.

Equally physical job not going to be viable too.

Its also at time when jobs market shrinking due to cuts and mechanism in real world should infact retirement Age be reduced than extended. Only ones being that can teach a trade to the next generations be able to move beyond or due to skills shortage.

Most likely employers will dump them on the dole anyway so think its rather distasteful to deny those 2 years of pension.

Its lack forsight by this government hope next government consigns idiotic move to the bin.

Re: George Osborne's autumn statement 2011
 

That'll please him then :)

Re: George Osborne's autumn statement 2011
 

I will no do anything major to help the economy and the the public sector pay cap is really just proves the the government want to fight the public sector unions

Plus we are giving aid to other counteries when 20% of our fellow UK citizen are in poverty

This Country is going down the dogs and nether the Tories/Lib Dems or Labour has any policys to deal with the economy

Re: George Osborne's autumn statement 2011
 

Two things...

A) People are living longer because of healthier living and better healthcare - how would you suggest the increased length of pension payments are funded?

B) The previous government didn't win any prizes for foresight, did it?

Re: George Osborne's autumn statement 2011
 

OK George:D

Re: George Osborne's autumn statement 2011
 

what i meant to say was

It will no do anything major to help the economy and the the public sector pay cap is really just proves the the government want to fight the public sector unions

Plus they are giving aid to other counteries when 20% of our fellow UK citizen are in poverty

This Country is going down the dogs and nether the Tories/Lib Dems or Labour has any policys to deal with the economy

Re: George Osborne's autumn statement 2011
 

I will not comment as it would cause public outrage.

Re: George Osborne's autumn statement 2011
 

l think that the lack of foresight about pensions can apply to governments of whatever political colour they are for the last 30 years Hugh.

Re: George Osborne's autumn statement 2011
 

yes they do ,they are trying to reduce borrowing, get unemployment down and reduce public spending ,for the forseable future that will be their policy .In this thread you stated you would prefer tax increases to cuts ,i'm sure that Osborne and the rest have considered that option but dismissed it because it doesn't help in reducing public spending/borrowing that much if unemployment is rising and will always be the most unpopular option

Re: George Osborne's autumn statement 2011
 

You obviously missed these bits in the OP, or did your blinkers stop you seeing them?

Re public sector pay caps - do you mean just like the Private Sector?

---------- Post added at 19:08 ---------- Previous post was at 19:06 ----------

yes, but now that someone is trying to do something about them they are being lambasted.

---------- Post added at 19:10 ---------- Previous post was at 19:08 ----------

I find it amusing when people advocate tax rises, they usually mean tax rises for other people....;)

Re: George Osborne's autumn statement 2011
 

or they don't actually work ;)

Re: George Osborne's autumn statement 2011
 

agreed seems hugh assumed blaming just this current government.

Yes people living longer thats true but surely better to have less unemployed than high unemployed.

In reality would think there ideology working till 70's is madcap unworkable employers unlikely too keep them in work.

therefore the only people hurt those who will never stay employment.

Also with churn jobs not career by cameron own words of future employment private pension schemes likely less.

We just need better solution more people in work would surely negatate some issues.

Making the need to less tax credit with better basic wage could ofset too.

Getting the tax issue sorted would raise funds to all these would make the country able to afford better pension structure.

Like said not all would retire those who got something to offer would infact not retire with that teaching the generations to take those skilled jobs via aprenticeships.

It can be tackled much better than what been done for number years.

We have to find solution to the working numbers game hugh highering the retirement just going to make situation very much worse.

Whether we reduce retirement or cut hours of work banning 12 hour shifts something goto be done. It will take brave goverment to see the light.

Re: George Osborne's autumn statement 2011
 

cut hours of work? ban 12 hour shifts? are you nuts ?

all that will achieve is to reduce productivity and increase companies overheads as they struggle to maintain a level of productivity to remain viable because some nutter banned 12 hour shifts .Many people who work 12 hr shifts rely on the overtime or bonuses achieved by working the extra hours

Re: George Osborne's autumn statement 2011
 

Just when you thought you had seen stupidity at it's best you can come on here and listen to some of the members and realise there are always new levels of stupidity to reach. This government and this chancellor as i have said elsewhere have got nothing to play with a previous government having blown it all in the good times and not putting a thing aside for that rainy day that turned out to be a monsoon season. When the pot is empty it is hard to do much at all and under the corcumstances this budget is not as bad as it could have been not that i expect some on here to ever give anyone any credit.

Re: George Osborne's autumn statement 2011
 

After having digested Geroge Osbournes autumn statement i have to agree he was caught somewhat between a rock and a hard place,in that there is not a lot of cash to spread around.

But i have to say what kind of a message does it send out when those on benefits recieve full uprating with inflation around 5%,whilst those that do go out and find a job are having their tax credits frozen, Also people in the public service like me (not on strike today by the way voted against it as i think its wrong) are getting 1% after our pay freeze ends (no negotiation there) in effect suffering a pay cut of around 16%,i do not mind takng my fair share of cuts but somewhere along the line the message being sent out to the low paid is not a good one,considering ian duncan smith wants to "make work pay"

Also my state pension age goes up in the april to 67 two months before i could have retired at 66 that is my contribution in the pot.;)

Re: George Osborne's autumn statement 2011
 

Seems like a waste of cash to me, let one parent stay at home with the child and some one else can have that job.

Re: George Osborne's autumn statement 2011
 

This statement was pretty nasty actually, the savings seem to be from welfare rather than increasing the tax take.

I understand the need for cuts in everything but the richest in society are taking absolutely none of the pain from this statement and it had relatively little impact on those who aren't wealthy but have high incomes such as myself.

It really is time for a land value tax, many other countries tax in that manner without having huge social unrest. Money sitting in housing and other unproductive assets doesn't power the economy, money flowing through businesses does.

Introducing a land value tax and using the proceeds to reduce VAT would be a pretty good idea. Property millionaires in the same council tax band they were in before their asset tripled in value over a little more than a decade should be paying some more.

Big winner from it all is of course pensioners and soon to be pensioners, aka Baby Boomers, triple lock on their pensions while those of working age see some of their welfare frozen, winter fuel allowance remaining non-means tested, still no tax on properties beyond council tax.

All in it together my backside.

Re: George Osborne's autumn statement 2011
 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...tumn-statement


l think this sums it up.

Re: George Osborne's autumn statement 2011
 

Money is paid to somebody else for land and housing. That money is then moved around the economy.:rolleyes: You could say the same about the purchase of most things like TVs.

What kills the economy is money being shipped abroad one way or another, eg imports or people sending money abroad.

Re: George Osborne's autumn statement 2011
 

squeezing the wrong people then seeing there austerity going to the toilet they squeeze more out the wrong people. Someone should tell osbourne you cant get blood out of stone but he sure trying hard.

When will this GOVERNMENT wake up do what will raise £££ and work on reducing deficet by the right way.

Leave the poor and low wages alone let them and middle class spend try drive and boost the economy.

Ignitionnet your right land tax might be good fund raiser.

Its absolute bonkers leadership will make FORCAST there latest fiasco will fail miserably we will just end up not decreasing but increase it. They wont even get close 2016 they listening to the wrong people who thinks where money can get raised.

The tax on bonuses got to be another great idea although my fear would they just trough more to ofset it.

I would not be suprised VAT will hit everything to try raise capital such essensial food. The way this government acting it must be on the cards.

Austerity was very clever ploy by the rich to put lesser well off back in there place. I really starting to believe this was all staged to create a bigger wealth bubble. However these silly rich who done it forgot who going to buy the goods which drive the economy. Minions who getting crushed spend they money that creates there wealth and drives jobs.

This will hurt private sector jobs like no tomorrow we will see waves unemployment. The world can recover but it need to be done properly.

Nobody say tax rich to hilth just make sure they pay there obligation.

I will say this there modern atitudes stink bet they would never give up some of there wealth like past wealthy did to support the war effort like those before.

This may not be using the gun but it is war like scenerio the COUNTRY NEEDS YOU to do the honourable thing stop offshoring wealth in tax havens. Pay up what you owe let country get back on its feet.

We could show the world the way with honesty commitment.

Re: George Osborne's autumn statement 2011
 

From the Radio Times write-up of a programme on BBC2 @ 9pm tonight(Wed 30th Nov).

Re: George Osborne's autumn statement 2011
 

Hmm you mean your money and how they spend it, with Nick Robinson BBC2 9pm i will watch with interest to see if that really is the case.;)

With top rate tax i gather it really is all smoke and mirrors.

See phillip green who has his company Arcadia in his wifes name who is a resident in monaco for tax purposes for details.

Re: George Osborne's autumn statement 2011
 

When we had the three day week production went up, the Country produced more in three days than we had previously done in five, as someone who went through the three day week I found that having more time off resulted in me going into work totally refreshed and able to work twice as hard. I never understood why firms went back to a five day week resulting in higher overheads and lower productivity. :dozey:

Re: George Osborne's autumn statement 2011
 

I am sure there are some good points in there, but I am sorry, I just don't understand what you are trying to say....

Re: George Osborne's autumn statement 2011
 

Borrowing and unemployment have risen since this govenment took office, none of the main parties has a plan to help briain at all and i do not konw any party that has a plan to help brtiain either!

Re: George Osborne's autumn statement 2011
 

I think the sad truth is that the government will have to raise more money through tax rises, but protect the poor and vulnerable at the same time.

To make pensions sustainable in the future and to prevent further redundancies they will need to reduce the public sector wage bill, not by making people redundant but by having phased reductions in salary with those at the top end taking the bigger hit.

Since 1997 we have had cost of living increases and rises which have led us to the position we are in. We now need to reverse this process not only with wages but also with prices.People need to be given time to learn to live on less so that the transition is relatively painless.

We also need to get the unemployed into work of some form as the country cannot sustain the benefits burden it is carrying.Some are already are doing some kind on training but others are sitting at home waiting for a job to turn up. The private sector is struggling. Providing them with free workers from the benefit-paid unemployed will give the unemployed work experience and training as well as aiding companies to generate the growth we need.

The government itself, through its job centres, needs to organise unemployed builders, plumber, electrians etc into small businesses and pay them to renovate the million or so unused homes so that they can be used. If each of those homes was fitted with solar panels the country would have a million mini-power stations suplying electricity to the national grid.

We have no growth because the government is expecting a battered private sector to employ the unemployed and generate growth in the harshest of economic conditions.

What we need is for the government through strategic planning to mobilise its agencies to organise and assign the unemployed to specific tasks. At the moment everyone is dithering and we have economic inertia. Instead of putting aside funds for various tasks e.g. enterprise zones etc government needs to lead the way organising the unemployed because otherwise all that happens is that the money stays there in the public purse doing nothing.

Someone once said that money is like manure, it doesn't do any good unless you spread it around.That's very true and we need to get government money circulating to get the unemployed back to work.

It is possible to address the nation's problems. They can be organised away with a bit of creativity and planning and a lot of good will all around. With government, employers, unions and workers all pulling in the same direction to revive the economy we cannot fail.

Re: George Osborne's autumn statement 2011
 

Not really, just reducing the amount of money they spend below 42% of our entire national output should be fine.

Further tax rises will threaten growth further.

Re: George Osborne's autumn statement 2011
 

Unfortunately, the government tends to see redundancies as the main means to make spending cuts and redundancies mean increased unemployment benefit payouts.

Increased income can be used to both generate growth and reduce the black hole in the pensions funds.

Basically, the government does not have enough funds to support its commitments.

Re: George Osborne's autumn statement 2011
 

Taxing people and then spending the money for them does not and will never generate growth. People power economies not governments which is why tax reductions, not tax rises, are traditionally used to stimulate economies. The more money people are left with the more they can spend on goods and services from other people.

If it were as easy as taxing and spending more everyone would do it.

Targeted spending is fine but does not create long term growth. Increasing taxes would sap that growth.

Re: George Osborne's autumn statement 2011
 

I guess, as always, we'll have to see what actions the government takes and what the consequences of those actions are.

Re: George Osborne's autumn statement 2011
 

Seems Brown may have kept one pledge alive and lastingly so as they have left the potential of an era of stagnation that could last at least another term after this.

And he said his maths was never any good ? :D

Re: George Osborne's autumn statement 2011
 

I see he is following gordons trend in predicting high growth and then revising downwards, something he attacked.

To those who think taxes stem growth here is a question.

I would agree to a policy like this.

"We will cut taxes businesses pay on the agreement at least 80% of the tax savings are invested instead of taken home as profits or paid to shareholders, this investment must also be for uk job creation within the uk and not abroad"

Give it 6 months to a year and if business dont comply then, enforce higher taxes and force investment via the public sector because whichever way we look at it, growth doesnt happen without investment, it has to come from somewhere.

Re: George Osborne's autumn statement 2011
 

Disregarding the fact that there is a minimum wage law in this country, and they would usually have to pay a ful working wage to all those that will now be working for free (just their benefits)?

I suppose we could say that it was the unemployed that fixed this country by working for free in 10 or so years.

I've just had a thought. what about if we all gave up our usual weekly wage packet and worked for the equivelant of someone unemployed is expected to work for?

All those in favour, just grunt :)

Re: George Osborne's autumn statement 2011
 

Equally unfortunately, that actually works.

Unemployment benefit is usually much less than the salary payment.

Both come from the taxpayer's purse so it actually does save money to make people unemployed.

Re: George Osborne's autumn statement 2011
 

For once a post that makes sense!

Re: George Osborne's autumn statement 2011
 

Compared to yours -yes.....;)

tbf, that is a very low baseline.:D