Originally Posted by Russ (Post 35328283)

So perhaps those who say the Government is too scared to stand up to militant islam could possibly say a few words, or maybe even swallow some of their own?

Originally Posted by Zee (Post 35328284)

i agree with you, although there is no such thing as militant Islam as you can't be a Muslim and cause terrorism, those people must be Atheist

Originally Posted by AdamD (Post 35328314)

Great news.
Shame they didn't deport them. :P

Originally Posted by AdamD (Post 35328314)

Great news.
Shame they didn't deport them. :P

Originally Posted by AdamD (Post 35328314)

Great news.
Shame they didn't deport them. :P

Originally Posted by Taf (Post 35328270)

Home Secretary Theresa May is banning Muslims Against Crusades, a group planning an anti-Armistice Day protest.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15678275

At last!

Originally Posted by Alan Fry (Post 35328341)

or the north pole :D

Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35328363)

good news but a pointless exercise as the members will just reform under a different name as they have in the past .

Anyone else think this is good timing(and by good timing i mean cynicle) on Teresa Mays part given the trouble she is in over the Borders debacle

Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 35328319)

Deport them, render more like... :D

Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35328363)

Anyone else think this is good timing(and by good timing i mean cynicle) on Teresa Mays part given the trouble she is in over the Borders debacle

Originally Posted by Zee (Post 35328284)

i agree with you, although there is no such thing as militant Islam as you can't be a Muslim and cause terrorism, those people must be Atheist

Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35328419)

that's a tad naive believing a muslim can't be a terrorist - but thanks for blaming atheists i'm sure we all appreciate the effort put into that statement ;)

Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35328424)

.I do think Zee is incorrect in calling them atheist though as they do still believe in a deity however misguided that belief is

Originally Posted by Zee (Post 35328284)

i agree with you, although there is no such thing as militant Islam as you can't be a Muslim and cause terrorism, those people must be Atheist

Originally Posted by devilincarnate (Post 35328426)

You either become worm food or smoke and ash :erm: When you go you go and the end is just the end? I'am a Athesit :D

Originally Posted by devilincarnate (Post 35328426)

You either become worm food or smoke and ash :erm: When you go you go and the end is just the end? I'am a Athesit :D

Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35328451)

so you don't believe in the ash-ter-life :)

Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35328424)

I think he's correct ,the same as a person professing to be a christian cannot be a christian if they go round blowing people up .I do think Zee is incorrect in calling them atheist though as they do still believe in a deity however misguided that belief is

Originally Posted by Zee (Post 35328486)

I think some people have mis-understood what i was trying to say and sorry if i offended anyone by my comment, what i am trying to say is, you cant say you're a priest and go around touching children, you cant say you're a Hindu and eat a cow and you cant go around blowing yourself and others up and say you're a Muslim.

Originally Posted by Zee (Post 35328486)

I think some people have mis-understood what i was trying to say and sorry if i offended anyone by my comment, what i am trying to say is, you cant say you're a priest and go around touching children, you cant say you're a Hindu and eat a cow and you cant go around blowing yourself and others up and say you're a Muslim.

I hope no one became offended by this.

Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35328477)

what if they butcher people / put them to the sword- in the name of God ? can they still be called christian ??

Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35328489)

i don't follow ,i've already said that they can't :confused:

Originally Posted by Zee (Post 35328486)

I think some people have mis-understood what i was trying to say and sorry if i offended anyone by my comment, what i am trying to say is, you cant say you're a priest and go around touching children, you cant say you're a Hindu and eat a cow and you cant go around blowing yourself and others up and say you're a Muslim.

I hope no one became offended by this.

Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35328489)

i don't follow ,i've already said that they can't :confused:

Originally Posted by Russ (Post 35328490)

And I've said that they can ;)

People can call themselves whatever they want.

Going back to the topic, there are many who would say the MAC idiots are not true Muslims but if you ask the MAC, they would probably tell you they are more 'Muslim' than anyone.

Originally Posted by Russ (Post 35328487)

just like atheists can call themselves open-minded yet have a go a religious people for believing in something that they themselves don't,

Originally Posted by Gary L (Post 35328498)

When did the Atheists association come up with that rule and not inform me?
I'm in that club but I'm not open minded.

Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35328493)

i was just wondering about the western crusades that where carried out in the name of Christianity by Christians against muslims .

Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35328496)

yes and i'm going to call myself a good looking sex god ,doesn't mean i am .Zees point is that most muslims who follow Islam in a peacefull way will not see the MAC as muslims because their actions are against the widely accepted teachings of the koran regardless of what they call themselves

Originally Posted by Gary L

When did the Atheists association come up with that rule and not inform me?

Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35328503)

different time ,different beliefs .Probably an era more suited to the MACs .In todays world no i don't think the crusaders would be accepted as christian at all

Originally Posted by Russ (Post 35328505)

I neither said or implied all atheists think that way.

Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35328507)

what about todays Christian British soldiers shooting muslims in Iraq or Afghanistan
are they accepted as Christians ?.

Originally Posted by Gary L (Post 35328498)

When did the Atheists association come up with that rule and not inform me?
I'm in that club but I'm not open minded.

Originally Posted by Russ (Post 35328490)

And I've said that they can ;)

People can call themselves whatever they want.

Going back to the topic, there are many who would say the MAC idiots are not true Muslims but if you ask the MAC, they would probably tell you they are more 'Muslim' than anyone.

Originally Posted by soicky (Post 35328527)

The question than is what makes a 'true Muslim'.

Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35328507)

what about todays Christian British soldiers shooting muslims in Iraq or Afghanistan
are they accepted as Christians ?.

Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35328542)

what about them ? they aren't doing it in the name of god .Killing anyone for whatever reason,however justified it may apear isn't very Christian.which is the great hypocrasy of any religion in my opinion

Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35328363)

good news but a pointless exercise as the members will just reform under a different name as they have in the past .

Anyone else think this is good timing(and by good timing i mean cynicle) on Teresa Mays part given the trouble she is in over the Borders debacle

Originally Posted by Russ (Post 35328545)

You've helped emphasise a point I often make - it's not your or my place to decide who is or isn't a "good" Christian/Muslim/Sikh/Hindu/whatever. We can comment on whether we feel someone's actions have fallen short of what we personally might expect from someone of faith but a person's beliefs are their own and justifiable to themselves only - and their chosen deity.

For example I don't view the whole MAC ethos to be very Islamic. I don't know any of them personally so I can't be sure but in my opinion I would say their actions fall short of what their holy book guides them to do. And they'd be just as within their rights to disagree with me.

Swings and roundabouts.

Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35328555)

therefore they are not counted as Muslim

Originally Posted by Gary L (Post 35328560)

What is a Muslim that doesn't follow Islam?
is Muslim a religion?
why do the media report a group of Muslims when we haven't determined whether they are 'religious'
they don't report a group of 'Christians'

Originally Posted by Gary L (Post 35328560)

What is a Muslim that doesn't follow Islam? Not a Muslim
is Muslim a religion? No - Islam is a religion, a Muslim is a follower of Islam
why do the media report a group of Muslims when we haven't determined whether they are 'religious' Simplistic dog-whistle labelling to provoke a reaction
they don't report a group of 'Christians'Because using "Christians" as a label doesn't invoke the same dog-whistle response

Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35328555)

surely though the majority view is accepted to decide what is right and wrong within a religion .

Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35328555)

If,for example ,the majority of muslims said that blowing up christians was the right way to go then that would be accepted as part of the religion and MACS would be counted as good Muslims ...but it isn't .

Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35328555)

A Muslim in this thread has said that he doesn't count the MACS as Muslims because of their actions and i hope that is a reflection of the feelings of most Muslims(and i choose to believe that it is) therefore they are not counted as Muslim

Originally Posted by Russ (Post 35328572)

No, it's your own morals to decide if something is right or wrong. But just because someone decides something right/wrong does not make it universally so.

There is a very common misconception in atheism that all followers of a certain faith believe exactly the same things. This could not be further from the truth. Just because I have a different view to say, Chris about some aspects of the bible does not mean either of us are right or wrong.



No, because there is no universal decree in Islam over what is right or wrong. yes you have extremist leaders who speak to their followers but they do not speak for all of Islam.



I'd agree with his sentiment but that does not make me right or wrong, for there is nobody on earth to decide what is right or wrong in those circumstances. Morally we may be right but again, morals are subjective.

No leader of any major religion/faith has the commanding say on what his/her followers believe, no not even the pope. Just because he claims something to be so does not mean all Catholics automatically agree and comply.

Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35328553)

Sad but true. A token exercise really.

May's certainly in hot water but she's hardly the first Home Secretary to have come a cropper in some way related to immigration. Yvette Cooper may shout and scream but we all know the 'system' was farcical for 13 years under the last government and still is. Quelle surprise.... :rolleyes:

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet (Post 35328600)

Can we just have a thread discussing atheism, agnosticism and theism? Would be hard work for moderators but keeps encroaching whenever religion is mentioned, let's have it out ;)

Originally Posted by Gary L (Post 35328835)

I could start one. I haven't started a thread for a while :)