Passengers watch wheel falling off their plane but don't think to tell anyone
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-15668364

If you looked out of the window of a plane and saw a wheel falling off during take-off, would you not think it the sort of thing that you should bring to the crew's attention?

What a bizarre story.

:confused:

Re: Passengers watch wheel falling off their plane but don't think to tell anyone
 

Maybe they thought that the plane automatically changes its wheels every time it takes off and lands? Some strange people about.

Re: Passengers watch wheel falling off their plane but don't think to tell anyone
 

I think it might depend who the passengers were. In my experience, scheduled flights always have a significant number of regular flyers on board. I suppose it's possible that all the witnesses were flight novices, but even so, we've all seen planes on TV and I would have thought the typical behaviour of the landing gear was reasonably well understood ...

Re: Passengers watch wheel falling off their plane but don't think to tell anyone
 

Exactly, if I had seen it I would have grabbed hold of a stewardess (gently and in the correct places ;) ) and said I think you might have a problem. But the more I think about it surely something should light up in the cockpit to tell the flight crew. Maybe that is what the people who saw it thought and when nothing was mentioned they thought they better say something.

Re: Passengers watch wheel falling off their plane but don't think to tell anyone
 

You would have thought that they would have got a low pressure warning for that wheel

Re: Passengers watch wheel falling off their plane but don't think to tell anyone
 

Apparently, that particular aircraft has a history of landing gear problems:

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/gener...ird%20Incident

Not only that, but a Flybe aircraft had landing gear problems the day before this incident:

http://avherald.com/h?article=4381456d&opt=0

Re: Passengers watch wheel falling off their plane but don't think to tell anyone
 

Years ago I remember one of my workmates saying he'd had recieved a call saying there was a bomb in the building, I said we'd better tell the boss and get everyone out, he said no need it's a hoax. A tiny bit perplexed I asked how he knew and he said it should have gone of 2 hours ago as he took the call first thing, even after explaining to him he still couldn't quite grasp it and kept saying but it's a hoax, nothing happened.

Re: Passengers watch wheel falling off their plane but don't think to tell anyone
 

Probably didn't want to cause a fuss.

Re: Passengers watch wheel falling off their plane but don't think to tell anyone
 

Yes, I used to fly semi-regularly between Glasgow and Birmingham on a Flybe Dash-8. It always made me slightly uneasy in a way other aircraft didn't.

Perhaps I should revise my earlier comments. If the passengers were all experienced in this type of aircraft, perhaps they thought wheels dropping off mid-takeoff was perfectly normal. :erm:

---------- Post added at 14:10 ---------- Previous post was at 14:07 ----------

... in fact I, perhaps unwisely, showed a colleague this picture just before she took a flight on one.

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...x?itemid=19369

This was the first of two gear failures on this aircraft class that occurred within weeks of each other in 2007.

Re: Passengers watch wheel falling off their plane but don't think to tell anyone
 

how stupid, and lucky no one was hurt.

Re: Passengers watch wheel falling off their plane but don't think to tell anyone
 

As far as I'm aware there is no pressure detecting device for wheels, these are generally done by a visual inspection.

I believe even if a wheel falls off their is no sensor, there is a brake temp sensor but thats all I can think off, I will ask the wheel guys here at work.

Re: Passengers watch wheel falling off their plane but don't think to tell anyone
 

I checked with a wheel guy at work and none that he knows of have any pressure sensors in them.

We do C-130, Helicopters, 737, gulfstream & other small size aircraft and some Airbus.

Re: Passengers watch wheel falling off their plane but don't think to tell anyone
 

WOW LOL, Shows how little you know, For one that aircraft has an history of issues and two you wouldn't get any pressure reading at all. I suspect this would leave the pilot to believe there was a fault.

As a zero pressure reading is unheard of. Although your post did make me laugh lol...

Re: Passengers watch wheel falling off their plane but don't think to tell anyone
 

Given Kymmy's employment history it's your post that's providing the lulz right now. ;)

Re: Passengers watch wheel falling off their plane but don't think to tell anyone
 

My uncle is RAF an has been at Scampton and is currently at Shawbury and I think I will choose to believe his "Employment history" which I know is 100% fact.

Re: Passengers watch wheel falling off their plane but don't think to tell anyone
 

I'm sure Kymmy won't mind me pointing out that she is herself ex-RAF. When it comes to judging what's an intelligent question with regards to aircraft design and operations, I'll take her first-hand experience over your second-hand experience any day. :)

Re: Passengers watch wheel falling off their plane but don't think to tell anyone
 

True. up in the air and people panicking just because a wheel fell off?

best just to keep it to yourself.

Re: Passengers watch wheel falling off their plane but don't think to tell anyone
 

I work for a company that puts new rubber on plane wheel rims, as well as landing gear to name two things

Re: Passengers watch wheel falling off their plane but don't think to tell anyone
 

I would always tell the cabin crew and have done in the past if I felt something was not right.

Rather it be sorted out on the ground or be informed all is ok than discover problems in the climb or in mid air.

Re: Passengers watch wheel falling off their plane but don't think to tell anyone
 

I didn't realise the RAF had Bombadier Q400's?

Re: Passengers watch wheel falling off their plane but don't think to tell anyone
 

Oh dear another fail from you, what a surprise, pity you do not take notice of posts giving her previous employment.:rolleyes:

Re: Passengers watch wheel falling off their plane but don't think to tell anyone
 

WOW LOL aren't you rude . As it happens there are numerous systems available to detect low tire pressure in aircraft they are called TPMS

http://standards.sae.org/arp6137/

Re: Passengers watch wheel falling off their plane but don't think to tell anyone
 

I see what you mean http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63-fzw52XBk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=UIBKXe20NAo

Re: Passengers watch wheel falling off their plane but don't think to tell anyone
 

None of the wheels that my comapny touch have this system in the wheels.

Re: Passengers watch wheel falling off their plane but don't think to tell anyone
 

Chris try looking at the plane spotters thread if you want more lulz :rofl:

The pressure sensors on that tyre will read LOW (that is any point from their alarm setting to zero) so the loss of the wheel itself will give a LOW reading (the same if the sensor pipe failed or the tyre was punctured)

Either way the alarm reading or the handling of the aircraft (lateral shift of the CoG or reduction in drag to one side) should also have alerted a professional pilot to their being an issue somewhere..

I'm now looking forward to the next (let's get one over on Kymmy) attempt by this poster as it's really lifting my spirits atm :rofl:

Re: Passengers watch wheel falling off their plane but don't think to tell anyone
 

My Uncle was head mechanic at one of the largest Volkswagen Audi Group service centres in the Midlands (he actually had the honour of servicing the last orginal Beetle that was built, which was never sold by VW). Doesn't follow that I know enough about the mechanics behind how cars operate enough to argue with a qualified mechanic.

Re: Passengers watch wheel falling off their plane but don't think to tell anyone
 

Tyre maintenance systems have been around for many a year with the first pressure detection systems for aircraft being patented pre WW2. It does depend on the manufacturer with a few aircraft having it as standard and some as an option. It is though isn't compulsory and looking round I'm surprised that few commercial aircraft have it installed. Instead it seems to be cargo carriers (especially oversized) that have these systems fitted as well as being more prevalent states side. I didn't state that the Q400 had one fitted or not but assumed that for such a crucial part that most manufacturers would fit one as standard.. Either way the pilot should have known whether by alarm or handling..

Re: Passengers watch wheel falling off their plane but don't think to tell anyone
 

Actually, this isn't strictly related to the thread, but in my pre-Uni days, I was a freight forwarding clerk. I was slightly alarmed to find that often the restrictions on the vehicles used to carry freight were (in some cases) a lot harsher than those used to carry people. For instance, if the frieght was carried under a letter of credit, the LOC often specified that the vehicle used (be it a plane or ship) was less than 15 years old. AFAIK, no such restriction exists on Passenger vehicles.

Re: Passengers watch wheel falling off their plane but don't think to tell anyone
 

Usually the case, the freight can be worth more and a more straight forward pay-out than the lives of the passengers :(

Re: Passengers watch wheel falling off their plane but don't think to tell anyone
 

Yeah, but at the time I was a Freight Forwarding clerk, I was naive enough to believe that Human lives were more important than goods...

Re: Passengers watch wheel falling off their plane but don't think to tell anyone
 

We do wheels by Messier-Bugatti-Dowty and theres no TBMS in them, I've attached a photo that I took of the Herc wheels at work (not really relavent but.) To give I ideal of scale the large one is 4 foot high, and I've seen new tyres with a mooosive flat spot but still usable, but removed for safety.

One of the companies that I deal with, but not for tyre monitoring

http://www.craneae.com/Products/Sens...ingSystem.aspx

The only plane I can find that has this is the B777

Re: Passengers watch wheel falling off their plane but don't think to tell anyone
 

Actually ,I wasn't trying to say whether they use pressure monitoring or not. I wouldn't know..

Re: Passengers watch wheel falling off their plane but don't think to tell anyone
 

I don't know what sort of pressure sensors are used on these planes, so I can't really comment on that. Although I would have thought that Kymmy was right.

As for the reduction in drag. On a plane this side the difference would be minimal. and the piolet probably wouldn't notice. He would probably just think it was a slight cross wind, and adjust the trim.

Re: Passengers watch wheel falling off their plane but don't think to tell anyone
 

Possibly but a wheel can give significant drag.. It'll probably depend on the pilot and conditions at the time. You also have to remember that the wheels on the q400 are further out than most aircraft of this size. I suppose it depends on how long the wheel was missing before the retraction as trimming to compensate for the yaw and then having to suddenly trim again on retraction should make a pilot take notice of an issue (easy though to say with hind-sight). From the reports it's a bit confusing as to who alerted the pilot (ATC, passenger has been mentioned yet in other reports now mention of ATC or passenger telling the pilot.)

Re: Passengers watch wheel falling off their plane but don't think to tell anyone
 

I should think that the most likely times for the wheel to fail would be take off and landing. So as it hadn't landed, then I presume it was take off. So if this is the case, then it wouldn't lead to a sudden change in balance whilst in mid flight. And would be easier for the pilot to miss.

Re: Passengers watch wheel falling off their plane but don't think to tell anyone
 

but as you say the trim might have been effected.. Think of it this way.. Pilot takes off, even if the wheel fell off at that point the pilot would of had to apply rudder to counteract the uneven drag.. He flips the gear lever and all of a sudden the uneven drag vanishes ;)

I look forward to the AAIB report on this one and really glad that there were no injuries never mind fatalities :clap: Well done to the pilots on lnading

Re: Passengers watch wheel falling off their plane but don't think to tell anyone
 

The biggest concern is what the hell where the passengers thinking who saw it, my seat would have been ruined, and the person behind me knocked out by the fumes.

I would have descretly as possible notified a trolly dolly and told them quitely, Not assumed that the crew would know.

Re: Passengers watch wheel falling off their plane but don't think to tell anyone
 

Isn't this a modern version of the early aircraft undercarriage where they took off on wheeled trolleys, leaving them behind on the ground, then landed on skids.

Seems perfectly straightforward to me.

Re: Passengers watch wheel falling off their plane but don't think to tell anyone
 

They have moved on a very long way since those days.