How about some equality for fathers?
 

So claims the Telegraph:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/family/88...-children.html

Some months ago I heard the founder of Fathers 4 Justice talking about why it'd had all been very quiet on that front. Had they gone away? Given up? Seen the light? Grown up even?

No, they'd simply kept their promise to stop what some had seen as silly stunts and enter into proper debate with HMG about the role of fathers in the welfare of their children. Perhaps they were hoping that the outcome of this review would provide some light at the end of a very long, dark, tunnel but if that's the case and the above article is correct, it seems they've been sold a pup.

As I type this I'm listening to the radio and a succession of distraught absent fathers reporting how they're routinely and cynically prevented from having access to their children. As a man it's very hard to hear another crying but that's what these guys are being driven to. For those with the money to pursue it through the courts even that route rarely prevents a bitter ex. from making a mockery of the whole process and using the children as a bargaining chip at best and a weapon at worst.

If the Met was institutionally racist, the family law system is institutionally sexist and it's shocking that this state of affairs is allowed to persist. On the one hand men are frequently told they're rubbish at being parents and absent fathers are a major factor in youth crime etc. but, on the other, the system prevents those who want to take that role as responsibly as it should be from doing so by denying them any enforceable rights to see their children. Catch 22 or what?

I really fail to see how anyone can dispute the need for children to have proper access to both their parents and preventing that right being recognised and enshrined in law is as unfair as it is bizarre. :confused:

Re: How about some equality for fathers?
 

This is where those pesky human rights, esp the right to family life, might well come in useful for some - irrespective of cat ownership.

Re: How about some equality for fathers?
 

Great Post

---------- Post added at 13:31 ---------- Previous post was at 13:26 ----------

Not Really

If it's in accordance with the law? Could be argued it's for the protection of the rights of the Mother.

Either way, it's a legal minefield in which the only winner will be a lawyer and the only loser will be the child.

Re: How about some equality for fathers?
 

Seems the life of judges comes ahead of fathers.

How much do judges get paid again?

Re: How about some equality for fathers?
 

They had a very good phone in on radio five live between 9am and 10 am on this subject,and Nicky Campbell found not one single caller that thought men were treated equally that included a woman family lawyer and a lady mediation specialist.Equality ie shared parenting must be one of the last taboos.

Ten years ago i was going through my own contact nightmare my ex refused mediation and was obstructive,which led to a day in the family courts with a legal team costing thousands,sadly governments and the people they choose to chair enquiries will not let things move on.

In america i understand there is equality where there is a presumed assumption of shared parenting,but sadly the powers that be will not equal things up here,if this was happening to women,their groups would be up in arms.:(

Re: How about some equality for fathers?
 

It may well be in large part due to the lobbying activities of certain powerful women's groups that change isn't happening. Let's face it, control over the children is the key factor which determines financial settlements, housing arrangements etc. and is frequently used as a stick with which to beat the ex partner. Even those fathers who have the money to try for redress in the courts find that in practice there's nothing they can do to force their former partner to allow contact.

Those mothers (my sister-in-law being one such) out there who do the right thing and encourage their children to have regular and meaningful contact with their fathers are probably just as appalled by the actions of these other women as we are.

Re: How about some equality for fathers?
 

Yes i agree with the above sentiments there probably are powerful womens groups lobbying hard in the background,but i do think as in scotland i believe mediation should be compulsory rather then the very adversarial court systems from the off.

But even ten years years ago when i was battling away my solicitor even said not worth going for a residence order,it was then she told me in america there is a presumed acceptance of shared parenting in the courts,seems ours are forever doomed to operate in the dark ages sadly.:(

Re: How about some equality for fathers?
 

Just as a matter of interest, who would these "powerful women's group" be?

Re: How about some equality for fathers?
 

I have heard people from powerful positions including Mizz Harman expressing doubts about equal parenting on the radio she is a woman with a powerful position in politics who seems to be listened to.And i have heard "femminists " express similar utterings in the past like it or loathe it they have a voice more powerful then they should have.In todays society

Re: How about some equality for fathers?
 

Those are individuals, which is, imho, completely different from "powerful women's groups".

Re: How about some equality for fathers?
 

Yes true Hugh but these indivduals combine to make a powerful group voice,and most of those that do hold those opinions tend to be listened to, take for instance Germaine Greer barking by most peoples standards but those in power listen to her she holds particular views on shared parenting,and just about any other "femminest" subject.

Re: How about some equality for fathers?
 

I understand where you are coming from, but conflating of various individuals, no matter how prominent they are, does not, imho, equate to "powerful women's groups", otherwise we could be saying that UKIP's Nigel Farage's and BNP's Nick Griffin's views on Europe equate to a "powerful anti-Europe group".

Re: How about some equality for fathers?
 

Fair point Hugh but Nick Griffin gets sent up and treated as a joke see the question time he appeared in for evidence .

UKIPS Nigel Farage gets listened to but is largely ignored by voters and other politicians as a result.

Okay perhaps "powerful womens groups" was bit of a exaggeration but powerful women in positions of power is not,and those powerful women do tend to have femminest agendas.

Re: How about some equality for fathers?
 

"feminist*"....;)

*would like to be treated equally to men.

Re: How about some equality for fathers?
 

In the same way men such as myself would like to be treated equally in the family courts no doubt.;);):)

Fair dos Hugh.:)

Re: How about some equality for fathers?
 

Well as a feminist myself I have no truck with women who use their children as weapons.I have no truck with either sex doing that.:mad:

However there was a time when an abused wife leaving her children at the marital home because she did not have anywhere to take her children would lose custody of them and the abusive husband would most definitely use the children against the wife.

Things have changed enormously since the 50s and 60s thanks in part to feminists and to far sighted and empathetic men.

However I really think things have swung too far the other way and it is high time this fact was noted and things rebalanced.

Re: How about some equality for fathers?
 

Totally agree (as someone who was treated very unfairly, imho, towards visitation/custody/etc rights around my children from my first marriage in the 70's/80's).

However, I don't let one area of unfairness towards men blind me to the multiple areas of unfairness that did exist (and still do in some areas) towards women.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Re: How about some equality for fathers?
 

Thats a fair point Maggy,and yes i acknowledge what you say regarding abused wives which has no place at all in a civil society nobody should have to put up with abuse.:mad:

And thank goodnees for women things have moved on.

I agree with your sentiments.:)

Re: How about some equality for fathers?
 

to me feminist means they want equality except where the inequality is in their favor.

Re: How about some equality for fathers?
 

http://www.parents4protest.co.uk/muddy_family_law.htm

IMHO, one only has to look at what happens whenever issues such as this and rape come up to see the disparity in treatment between males and females. Any changes aimed at ensuring fairer treatment of men are challenged in the media by women's groups such as those mentioned in the article above with the sole intention of preserving what is a state of inequality - ironic given that these same groups often seem to shout loudly about the need for equality.

It's obvious for all to see that women have (understandably and rightly in many cases) formed and far better utilised many more lobbying and support groups than their male counterparts. There's no doubt in my mind that this accounts in large part for the disparity in family law and even the appalling lack of support services provided to male victims of say domestic violence and the lack of screening offered for male cancers. Those who shout loudest and all that.....

It's true that these groups individually may not have much obvious power but combined they have clearly been able to drive an agenda and influence government decision making at the highest level, often very positively. My belief is, however, that the same process has led to the current highly skewed legislation men find themselves the victims of. When one side in an argument is far better organised and represented than the other it's not surprising that one set of rights gets subjugated. That's what led to the women's movement in the first place isn't it.



---------- Post added at 14:14 ---------- Previous post was at 13:55 ----------

:tu:

Re: How about some equality for fathers?
 

Got some examples?

Re: How about some equality for fathers?
 

I'm not sure what was being proposed could someone clarify.Is it being proposed that the father should have the right to equally shared time with the child if possible and practicable with exceptions for some fathers ?.
Or is it being proposed that fathers will be forced to share time equally with the child as a matter of law and if they don't they would be breaking the law ? because they are two very different things