Benefits deductions: Crime shouldn't pay, says David Cameron
 

At last he has done something i actually agree with.

The government is giving the courts more power to reclaim money from people on benefits who are fined for breaking the law.

Currently, the courts can only deduct £5 a week from benefit claimants. From 2013, that will rise to £25.

The prime minister explained the reason for the change.

Video is here on BBC Site..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15504988

Re: Benefits deductions: Crime shouldn't pay, says David Cameron
 

Personally I think it's going to lead to an increase in crime..after all they are just going to go shoplifting, mugging or burgling to make up the shortfall.

Re: Benefits deductions: Crime shouldn't pay, says David Cameron
 

Maggy, stop making sense!

Re: Benefits deductions: Crime shouldn't pay, says David Cameron
 

I thought that the amount a person gets from welfare is set to the minimum amount a person needs to survive on with no luxuries or extras so how they can expect people to pay fines out of dole money is beyond me .Far better to not fine them but get plenty of free labour out of them rigorously enforced by some of the ex RSM's just been made redundant from the army

Re: Benefits deductions: Crime shouldn't pay, says David Cameron
 

I love David Cameron. He should have said that crime only pays if you're wealthy and work in the City in which case you can commit wholesale fraud, the powers that be will note that you committed fraud, and ignore it.

Getting rather tiring this government's increasing penchant for picking on the population as a whole and handing those at the top of the chain a free pass.

Re: Benefits deductions: Crime shouldn't pay, says David Cameron
 

What he said.

Re: Benefits deductions: Crime shouldn't pay, says David Cameron
 

Don't recall seeing bankers smashing up London?

Of course we shouldn't financially penalise these rioters, we should give them more money that they haven't earn't.

I'd happily pay triple the amount of tax I do, and give it to this deserving demographic of our society, as they contribute so much to it.

Re: Benefits deductions: Crime shouldn't pay, says David Cameron
 

No need to worry, Messrs Cameron and Osborne have already ensured that you'll pay more tax.

Re: Benefits deductions: Crime shouldn't pay, says David Cameron
 

Here's one, Are they going to remove the benefits of anyone in that camp in London who they find are claiming job seekers but instead are sitting on there arses in a tent being a knob. ????

Re: Benefits deductions: Crime shouldn't pay, says David Cameron
 

Why would they? Has anyone protesting at St Pauls committed a crime in doing so?

Are you suggesting that those on benefits should have no right to legal protest?

You may think their protesting constitutes their "being a knob" but the reality is they are exercising their legal right.

You never struck me as being a fan of the banks and their behaviour.

Re: Benefits deductions: Crime shouldn't pay, says David Cameron
 

Do you mean welfare recipients in general or just this specific group?

If you mean welfare recipients in general then of course we have to include the various financial organisations that have received funding and guarantees from the state along with corporations that receive welfare through tax credits.

I call it welfare to corporations as it means they can pay crap wages that aren't enough for people working full time to live on and the state, through our pockets, makes up the difference.

This is a stupid idea. If people can afford to lose £25/week from their welfare they're being paid too much to begin with, this'll just lead to more crime, it's a nakedly political scam to try and score votes and portray the party as tough on crime while they simultaneously pursue a 'progressive' caring and sharing Conservative policy.

---------- Post added at 18:51 ---------- Previous post was at 18:50 ----------

I agree that any doing that are breaching the terms of JSA and should indeed be appropriately penalised.

I disagree that they are being knobs, it's their absolute right to protest within the boundaries of the law even if many of their issues are, imho, misguided and naive.

Re: Benefits deductions: Crime shouldn't pay, says David Cameron
 

I was referring to the rioters, but I extend that to any one on state benefits that commits a crime.

Re: Benefits deductions: Crime shouldn't pay, says David Cameron
 

So the idea is to have a two tier penal system?

If you're on benefits you should receive a harsher punishment for the same crime compared to those who aren't on benefits?

Re: Benefits deductions: Crime shouldn't pay, says David Cameron
 

I'd be amazed if there were anything in the JSA terms which precludes individuals from exercising their democratic rights. Just because someone is protesting in a tent does not necessarily mean they are not available for work (should work become available to them) or conducting jobsearches via a smartphone or a laptop or indeed calling to a local jobcentre / recruitment agency during the day.

Re: Benefits deductions: Crime shouldn't pay, says David Cameron
 

I dont like the banks and yes you know that ;), but Nether do i like paying tax so that people who i feel should not be allowed to claim job seekers, simply because they are in fact protesting 100 of miles from where they live and not actively looking for work ????

As for the knobs comment, I made it because of WHERE they have decided to protest. They are not doing themselves any favours by making trouble for the church.

Re: Benefits deductions: Crime shouldn't pay, says David Cameron
 

Where did this come from..Do you know for a fact that the protesters are on JSA?Or are you just dragging in a group that you dislike to just have a spurious go at them?

Re: Benefits deductions: Crime shouldn't pay, says David Cameron
 

So are you saying they all live just around the corner from where they are protesting, I dont wear rose tinted glasses because i live in the real world Maggy and yes i am having a go at them read my post again as to why

You ask me if i do know so do you know that there is none there on jsa

Re: Benefits deductions: Crime shouldn't pay, says David Cameron
 

Aside from the fact that you are basing a lot on assumptions my earlier post re: JSA conditions refers. People can claim JSA anywhere in the UK, there is no requirement for them to remain local / static should they do so. Indeed several coalition ministers have mooted their mobility as a good thing.

In short they are making relatively little "trouble" for the church beyond having a financial impact.

On that matter I seem to remember some bloke called Jesus having been quoted in Matthew 18:20 as saying "where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them".

Effectively even he seemed to suggest that a church (or cathedral for that matter) wasn't a prerequisite for worship.

One could reasonably argue that the cathedrals (and indeed your) concerns in relation to access to worship on their premises are ill founded.

Re: Benefits deductions: Crime shouldn't pay, says David Cameron
 

I just feel they could have picked a better target, how about the gates of Downing street.

Re: Benefits deductions: Crime shouldn't pay, says David Cameron
 

How are people on benefits being treated harsher?

Re: Benefits deductions: Crime shouldn't pay, says David Cameron
 

Why as the church have the biggest load of money than any government?

Re: Benefits deductions: Crime shouldn't pay, says David Cameron
 

You have summed it up to a tee Maggy.

Re: Benefits deductions: Crime shouldn't pay, says David Cameron
 

Yeah, let's just give them more money and eradicate the problem completely.

From now on let's just give everybody, say, £40k a year for free. Except the bankers of course, we'll make them pay for it all.

Re: Benefits deductions: Crime shouldn't pay, says David Cameron
 

But thats what they will do as we hear about them in our city shoplifting or committing crimes all the time to make up their money.

Re: Benefits deductions: Crime shouldn't pay, says David Cameron
 

Sorry don't understand that comment based on my comment, can you clarify?

Re: Benefits deductions: Crime shouldn't pay, says David Cameron
 

Well why should Cameron be inconvenienced?;)

Re: Benefits deductions: Crime shouldn't pay, says David Cameron
 

l am just reinstating what Maggy stated in her post of what will probably happen if their benefits get cut as we are talking about a hard core of people here who's attitude is well l have had my benefits cut and all they will do is go out and commit crimes to make up for their shortfall of money and l suspect even if they get caught most of them won't even go to jail.

Re: Benefits deductions: Crime shouldn't pay, says David Cameron
 

I make no assumptions about them..I was actually thinking of the group that Cameron was actually talking about,the summer rioters and looters and general law breakers across the country..

You dragged in these particular protesters to the discussion and they are neither rioters or looters.they are protesters and NOT whom Cameron was referring to.

They have broken no laws either..so no need for Cameron to remove any benefit from them.

And lastly life is not as black and white as you would like it to be..If you had your way no one would be able to speak up or out in public from the tone you seem to be adopting.

Re: Benefits deductions: Crime shouldn't pay, says David Cameron
 

Or we could just treat everyone the same, if you do the crime you're punished appropriately, rather than vilifying some and ignoring the crimes of others while handing them billions in taxpayers' cash and inflation inducing funny money.

Re: Benefits deductions: Crime shouldn't pay, says David Cameron
 

I have no problem with people protesting, I have a problem with people getting benefits they are NOT entitled to. My point is that if its found that some of the protesters at this camp in London are claiming JSA in another town and that town is not where they are protesting then they are in my eye's not looking for work, Therefor they are not entitled to JSA, If that is the case JSA should be removed whilst they protest in London. Or do you think they should be paid a benefit they are not entitled to.

Re: Benefits deductions: Crime shouldn't pay, says David Cameron
 

No they didn't smash it up for a few days, they've just brought the city and country to its knees for decades and not one of them's been banged up for it or even fined, in fact classically enough they're being paid bonuses for it and just waiting for the chance to do it again or profit from the mess they have created.

---------- Post added at 00:50 ---------- Previous post was at 00:48 ----------

Yep, some chavy type nicks a telly and we'll take half their dole money or bang them up, some MP add's it to his expences and it's fine, the rot starts at the top Dave not the bottom.

---------- Post added at 00:54 ---------- Previous post was at 00:50 ----------

I spoke to some of them the other day, most seemed to be students, looked to me like posh kids rebelling tbh.

---------- Post added at 00:55 ---------- Previous post was at 00:54 ----------

You couldn't bet a better target then The Stock Exchange, which is within spitting distance...

Re: Benefits deductions: Crime shouldn't pay, says David Cameron
 

One of the local happy people a few doors down who works full time and commits acts of violence on a regular basis was laughing about this yesterday. He isn't on any benefit and despite being fined thousands over the years has not paid a penny of it and for some reason unknown to him and me no attachment of earnings has ever been made. Only once has he served anytime for fines think it was thirty days a few years ago (he has done a few years in the last twenty for his violence).

This just stinks of more anti benefit claimant crap from this government which is becoming quite regular these days and making this a big headline give what impression of us to non benefit claimants. It isn't only benefit claimants commiting crime and the whole system is woeful in how it deals with fines and getting them off people who have them imposed so why the hell just highlight one small section.

Maybe oneday i will start to act like the **** the daily hate and this government make me out to be quite often afterall what else can you expect from the likes of me :mad:.

Re: Benefits deductions: Crime shouldn't pay, says David Cameron
 

Absolute spot on I have become to think we all in it together is therye admitance of troughing it up. Seems theyre all in the act ex MP's got in too thinking dont matter who in power they bleeding this country dry no doubt shoving it into tax havens before the country collapses.

Maggy J your very observant shame these idiots dont see it.

I would expect drug crime go up too gang crime think it even could turn us into america levels crime.

Re: Benefits deductions: Crime shouldn't pay, says David Cameron
 

Yeah i think we're all starting to understand the meaning of "we're all in it together" it's just some groups are more in it then others. Being honest i am not sure i can bring myself to bother voting anymore whats the point we get one load of excrement in after another whats the point anymore.

Is it any wonder the people of this country are not perfect when our so called leaders set such a lousy example for us all. Sometimes though i think politicians in this country are doing their best to put us all off voting so at some future point they can get us sleepwalked into a federal EU or some other debacle.

Re: Benefits deductions: Crime shouldn't pay, says David Cameron
 

But this is not a discussion about people getting benefits they are not entitled to.It's about those on benefit ,committing crimes and being made to pay more than the usual £5 weekly fine that the court decides they get to pay because they are on benefit.
Cameron wants to increase the minimum fine that they pay even if it does take more or most of the benefit. Why you are banging on about JSA and protesters beats me.

Re: Benefits deductions: Crime shouldn't pay, says David Cameron
 

good for headlines, but the decision has no common sense.

Almost every day and pretty much every week there is news on some kind of crackdown on benefits from the tories, they are obssessed with benefits.

Nearly every decision they have made shows they are completely out of touch and only serve the rich and those working.

This one is very extremely obvious it will make an increase in crime, £25 a week is a big dent of a benefit like JSA.

Its a benefit cut disguised, and why should crime only pay if the person is on benefits? whats with the specific targeting of a group for crime. If he wants to be tough jail time or similiar punishments are better,. not financial.

---------- Post added at 20:56 ---------- Previous post was at 20:53 ----------

Given that the government expect people in low employment areas to move house to work, to forbid people looking for work in other cities would be counter productive. Of coruse people can be in a different city when on JSA. What you suggesting is ludicrious. Also one doesnt have to be looking for work all day every day, there is only so much can do. Of course if they doing nothing at all looking for work you have a point, but you dont know what they doing in that regards.

Also just watched that video clip he referes to "normal people" thinking it not enough, he is even stereotyping claimants now.

Re: Benefits deductions: Crime shouldn't pay, says David Cameron
 

It's possible they were. Unlikely, but possible.

---------- Post added at 21:38 ---------- Previous post was at 21:37 ----------

I don't profess to know exactly what is wrong with society, but I suspect that there are several things going wrong.

First, we have cost cutting. This is leading to a lack of proper education in schools with schools seeming to be be more interested in attaining good grades in exams rather than educating their pupils. Cost cutting also means that unemployment is rising. It also generates a certain amount of resentment when the man (and even in these apparently enlightened times, it is nearly always a man) who is ultimately responsible for the cost cutting gets a "performance" bonus running in to millions of pounds for apparently doing very little.

Second, we have advertising. We have an entire industry devoted to telling us we are not complete if we don't own the latest trainers, clothes, smartphones etc.

Third, the 'sleb culture and general media. We have a media telling people that spends a lot of time telling people that it's easy to make lots of money by kicking a ball around, shagging someone famous, or , if you are female and possibly attractive (or at least willing to have a breast enlargement, bleach your hair and paint your face orange), you can **** (or marry, if you are lucky) a footballer to make money.

Now, I actually don't have a problem with people shagging celebrities, or some bleached, surgically enhanced slapper stumbling out of a "trendy" nightclub with a footballer at 3am. I have a problem with the message it gives. It gives the message that you don't have to work to earn money, as long as you can find someone famous to ****.

Fourth. The bankers. I doubt the rioters did, but certain members of the working classes will have seen the bankers apparently being rewarded for losing billions of pounds. Rewards that probably number in the tens of thousands a pounds a quarter, each.

We also have the slight problem that there is a perception (whether it is true or not) that the government is willing to let the rich and big businesses get away with massive amounts of immoral (if not illegal) actions while heavily penalising small businesses and anyone who isn't rich. This isn't going to help with any unrest.

Now, none of this is a justification for the actions taken by the rioters. But, I come from a family where we are taught to work hard for what we get, and I wouldn't dream of nicking.

I am, however, trying to offer an explanation of why some people may be driven to take extreme action.

While I can actually see the sense behind David Cameron's argument, I don't actually think his solution is going to do anything but increase any sense of persecution felt by these people, and ultimately, that isn't good.

Re: Benefits deductions: Crime shouldn't pay, says David Cameron
 

They'll be giving out a rule book to benefit claimants soon.

You shall work for free if we tell you to.
You shall get no money off us if we say you can't have any.
You shall pay fines off at £25 per week.
You shall do as you are told by an employee at the jobcentre.
You shall not backchat the staff.
You shall be a piece of **** that you are whilst claiming benefits.
You shall not riot.

Re: Benefits deductions: Crime shouldn't pay, says David Cameron
 

No, they won't.

Re: Benefits deductions: Crime shouldn't pay, says David Cameron
 

Yes, they will.

Re: Benefits deductions: Crime shouldn't pay, says David Cameron
 

Tell me Gary what is your reasoning behind these thoughts.

Re: Benefits deductions: Crime shouldn't pay, says David Cameron
 

think austerity Gary -they'll be charging for the book not giving ;)

Re: Benefits deductions: Crime shouldn't pay, says David Cameron
 

There is the flaw in your otherwise eminently reasonable question....;)

Re: Benefits deductions: Crime shouldn't pay, says David Cameron
 

Methodical.

---------- Post added at 22:52 ---------- Previous post was at 22:49 ----------

Yeh.
You shall have the book on you at all times.
You shall be charged £3.70 for a replacement.
You shall have to purchase a replacement if you cannot present your book when requested.

:)

Re: Benefits deductions: Crime shouldn't pay, says David Cameron
 

You've missed your medication again, I see.....

Re: Benefits deductions: Crime shouldn't pay, says David Cameron
 

Claimants already have to agree to those rules ;)

last time I was in a job centre there was a lot of security guards to enforce the no backchat. Is like visiting a prison the atmosphere in a job centre with all the security staff.

Re: Benefits deductions: Crime shouldn't pay, says David Cameron
 

Once again Cameron is talking hot air. If you are on benefit that is your legal right, its up to the courts to decide how much you can pay.

You will only force that person to go out and commit more crime, and then there isn't enough coppers on the street to deal with the crime.

He should first of all point to all these stupid people camping outside St Paul's, all those stupid people at Dale farm, that had nothing to do with the protest of travellers, most of them are probabley on benefit.

What he has to do, is deal with these top bankers that are being paid large sums of money to keep his 'dona tors' in place.

Why is it that he is picking on the vulnerable people of this country, and yet letting fiddling MPS get away with thieving, and now today we read that the Leader of the commons spent 2.000 quid on a new suit from tax payers money, if he had gone to Tesco he could have bought one for thirty quid.

Re: Benefits deductions: Crime shouldn't pay, says David Cameron
 

£30 for a suit - shurely you mean a shirt?

Bercow was always a bit of Richard.

Re: Benefits deductions: Crime shouldn't pay, says David Cameron
 

No a SUIT.

Re: Benefits deductions: Crime shouldn't pay, says David Cameron
 

Doesn't the static from the £30 suit interfere with your mobile phone?

Arthur, mate, no disrespect - but if you pay £30 for a suit, you'll get a suit that looks like it costs £30.....

Buy cheap, it won't last long - pay a reasonable amount, probably last five times as long (and won't look shoddy).

Re: Benefits deductions: Crime shouldn't pay, says David Cameron
 

I hear you can't wear them at the petrol station either :D

Re: Benefits deductions: Crime shouldn't pay, says David Cameron
 

no but you can jog in them;)

Re: Benefits deductions: Crime shouldn't pay, says David Cameron
 

I got me one of them Tesco suits a couple of years ago when they were £20.
it's blue and white stripes.

Re: Benefits deductions: Crime shouldn't pay, says David Cameron
 

Re: Benefits deductions: Crime shouldn't pay, says David Cameron
 

I would love to be able to pay that much for a suit, sadly we don't all fit the mould of that kind of stuff. I doubt my 44in chest, 32in waist and massive thighs would fit into a Tesco suit.

Re: Benefits deductions: Crime shouldn't pay, says David Cameron
 

Re: Benefits deductions: Crime shouldn't pay, says David Cameron
 

That tracky would go well with my new pair of Adidas Strangeways.

Re: Benefits deductions: Crime shouldn't pay, says David Cameron