Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35322691)

Sky and VM are quite different propositions. Which you choose should be decided by you and you alone and not someone else who will only be able to tell you that one is better than the other based on their own preferences or criteria.

So, is simple quantity of linear channels most important to you, or flexibility in how you consume content?

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35322700)

AFAIK all the well-known subscription channels are on both, although not as many of them are in HD on VM yet.

Originally Posted by djfunkdup (Post 35322704)

the power of good old google :)



http://shop.virginmedia.com/digital-tv/channels.html


http://tv.sky.com/tv-guide

all the channels you listed are on virginmedia.i would imagine if you swapped over to virgin media,then the saving you would make by including your living room tv into your VM bundle.then that would out-weigh being with sky..

rem this is just my opinion.sorry i cant tell you how much this would be as you already have virgin media..

Originally Posted by Chad (Post 35322737)

If you want linear channels Tim then it'll be SKY you are after. If however it's content you need Virgin.

SKY has more channels but the vast majority of the channels on SKY that aren't on Virgin aren't exactly popular. Virgin carry about 98% of the UK's most watched channels. But what makes Virgin special is the 7 day catch up content from BBC, ITV, Channel 4 and Channel 5. On top of this Virgin offer the most extensive On Demand choice available in the UK, especially now that SKY Anytime has arrived. What it means is whilst there might not be anything on linear TV to watch, you have thousands and thousands of hours worth of content you can watch at the touch of a button.

Personally I'd rather have Catch-up TV and On Demand ahead of SKY Atlantic, MGM HD, SKY Sports 3 HD any day of the week!

Don't let anyone try and trick you, Virgin Media is the number 1 when it comes to providing content in the UK.

Originally Posted by Chad (Post 35322737)

Don't let anyone try and trick you, Virgin Media is the number 1 when it comes to providing content in the UK.

Originally Posted by Chad (Post 35322751)

Just to clarify Tim, Catch-Up TV is a completely free service that is included in all of Virgins TV packages. I've just had a look at what is currently available and I must admit I'm very surprised. It's not until you step back and look properly at the Catch-Up service that you notice just how much stuff you get access too.

Each day Virgin makes available on average 140 programmes televised in the last 24 hours from BBC 1, BBC 2, BBC 3, BBC 4, BBC HD, BBC News, CBBC, ITV 2, ITV 3, ITV 4, CITV, Channel 4, Channel 5 and Channel 5 HD. In total that's 980 programmes that have been televised in the last 7 days at your finger tips.

Technically you do also get 7 day Catch-Up material from SKY Living and the FX channel too however this can be very limited. At the moment the only thing from FX is last nights episode of The Walking Dead.

If you want any more info regarding On Demand or Catch Up Tim, just let me know.

Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35322748)

I'm no Sky fan but that isn't really true.

Catch up, is well, catchup; i.e., you could have watched it anyway. TV choice on demand, with some exceptions, again shows things that have previously been shown on a channel carried by VM.

Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35322748)

Sky have some channels that show content that we can't currently see on VM, either on a linear channel or on demand. And some of it (Sky Atlantic) is award winning drama.

Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35322748)

I think there can be no doubt that for the broadest range of content, Sky is king in the UK.

Originally Posted by Chad (Post 35322767)

True but if you missed the programme, or you've never seen it before then it is brand new content to you personally. If you take the TiVo service, this will help you find even more new content you may never have seen before.



Again I can't argue. It really comes down to each individual viewer. Personally I am not a fan of American drama so missing channels like SKY Atlantic, CBS Action and CBS Drama are not an issue for me at all whatsoever. I like sport so ESPN being included in the XL package is a real bonus to me.



Again I can't disagree but when it comes to volume and choice of content Virgin is king. Virgin offer a service where you will ALWAYS be able to find something you want to watch regardless of what time of day it is. According to figures on BARB, Virgin do actually carry the top 30 most watched programmes outside your usual terrestrial TV. So whilst SKY might have a broad offering that doesn't mean it's of a high standard. Not 1 single programme from SKY Atlantic features in the top 30 list.

If you have the XL package with Virgin plus SKY Movies and SKY Sports, which is roughly 175 channels, plus 6500 hours of On Demand content, plus another 1000 worth of Catch Up programmes, plus TiVo recording all sorts of programmes you've never even seen before and you're still not satisfied I really don't think what SKY has to offer is going to satisfy you either.

This is just my personal opinion. The channels that Virgin don't carry, with the exception of BoxNation, are just not that important to me. Again each to their own however some of the viewing figures on BARB appear to confirm the channels we don't have on Virgin are not exactly big hitters:

http://www.barb.co.uk/report/weekly-viewing?_s=4

Originally Posted by Jameseh (Post 35322777)

If HD really matters to you, stick with Sky, otherwise use Virgin Media.

Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35322783)

I understand what you're saying, and the benefits of VM when coupled with Tivo, far outweigh Sky's extra content for me.

But there is a lot of 'Sky bashing' goes on, and for broadness of content shown, Sky beat VM. So, therefore, it can't be denied that Sky are the content kings.

For on demand and catchup, VM are king.

I very rarely use catchup and only occasionally use OD; with 3 recordable tuners and Wish Lists, I find that there is no need.

Originally Posted by LexDiamond (Post 35322797)

and a far superior PVR.

Originally Posted by devilincarnate (Post 35322799)

You mean the SA V+:D:D:D:D

Originally Posted by Tim Deegan (Post 35322775)

I have to agree with Chad.

If I have missed a program I have to watch it on catch up in my bedroom, because sky doesn't show it.

Also most of the channels on sky are complete rubbish, and aren't worth having anyway.

Originally Posted by Jameseh (Post 35322777)

If HD really matters to you, stick with Sky, otherwise use Virgin Media.

Originally Posted by Chad (Post 35322802)

If you can live without Sony Entertainment Television, ARY Qtv, ARY Oneworld, ARY Entertainment, ARY News, Sky Atlantic, CBS Action, CBS Drama, Bliss, Chart Show TV, Dance Nation TV, Flava, Kix!, POP, Pop Girl, Scuzz, The Vault, True Movies 2, Investigation Discovery, TLC, Absolute 90s, TCM 2, BET, MTV Classic, MTV Music, ZEE Café, Zing, NHK World HD, Russia Today, Movies4men, Movies4men2, Al Jazeera English, Fox News and France 24 you'll be fine with Virgin. I have left out all of the +1 channels and HD varients from this list plus all of the various religion and sales channels. These channels are perceived to be the "popular missing ones".

Also you can't yet get Premier Sports or BoxNation on Virgin.

Originally Posted by Chad (Post 35322802)

Scuzz,

Originally Posted by LexDiamond (Post 35322797)

VM XL TV is excellent value for money. It includes all the most popular pay channels, channels in HD and on demand and a far superior PVR.

Originally Posted by Tim Deegan (Post 35322932)

I moved house in April this year, so will sky have me now in a 12 month contract unil April 2012??

Originally Posted by batchain (Post 35322939)

Taken from Sky's help forum..

http://helpforum.sky.com/t5/Billing/...act/m-p/151053

"If you are moving your existing equipment which is Sky+ enabled to the new property and have arranged for a home move visit then the engineer will ensure the relevant connections are fitted (second cable from the dish) as required while installing.

You are not tied to a new contract unless you decide to upgrade or replace your existing equipment with new equipment as part of the visit.

If the dish does need replaced as part of the visit this will be done as standard as part of the home move installation visit and will not affect your contract."

Originally Posted by muppetman11 (Post 35323866)

As bias as ever :D with the exception of PB.

Originally Posted by gcampbell (Post 35323873)

There is no question whatsoever that Sky are better for TV than VM.

Some argue that tivo may supposedly show what you want when you want, but if VM don't have the channels you want then Tivo doesn't do that.

Originally Posted by Alan Fry (Post 35323875)

the poin this if you want lots of channels, great vod and fast internet then none of them fit the bill

Originally Posted by New to cable (Post 35323997)

Both have good ondemand services but both require you to be on the networks.

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35323867)

Master is PB your personal bodyguard.:D

Originally Posted by Jameseh (Post 35323998)

VM doesn't, the box has its own connection.

Originally Posted by Alan Fry (Post 35323875)

the poin this if you want lots of channels, great vod and fast internet then none of them fit the bill

virgin offer great vod and broadband but lukewarm channel list

sky offer great channel list, but lukewarm vod and rubbish broadband

Originally Posted by New to cable (Post 35323999)

You still need to be on VM's network. WOW I thought even you would of realised that Jameseh.

Let me explain if to you, for ondemand on a VM boox you need to be within vm's network!

Originally Posted by Jameseh (Post 35324014)

Pretty sure you don't need VM BB to get on demand unlike Sky.

Originally Posted by Jameseh (Post 35324014)

Pretty sure you don't need VM BB to get on demand unlike Sky.

Originally Posted by lexdiamond (Post 35324010)

i think you are mistaken. Vm xl tv does not have lukewarm channels. What is lukewarm is your long list of mediocre channels to be added. Vm has plenty of quality viewing content.

Originally Posted by Alan Fry (Post 35324038)

you are calling al jazzera, sky atlantic, sky 3d, many hd channels mediocre?

Originally Posted by LexDiamond (Post 35324050)

Is that all you could get from your list of 90+ channels? Sounds like a mediocre list to me.

Originally Posted by Alan Fry (Post 35324038)

you are calling al jazzera, sky atlantic, sky 3d, many hd channels mediocre?

Originally Posted by Chad (Post 35324061)

I don't think Al Jazzera or SKY Atlantic are mediocre. I just think their latest viewing figures make it difficult to justify them as being must have channels.

Week October 17th to 23rd:

SKY Atlantic: 762,000 Daily Viewers - 0.3% of the overall weekly viewing share

Al Jazzera: 252,000 Daily Viewers - % of the weekly share too low to register

Based on these viewing figures SKY Atlantic is the 43rd most popular / viewed channel in the UK accoring to BARB. The 43 channels ahead of SKY Atlantic are all on Virgin Media.

Al Jazzera which is on SKY, Freesat and Freeview has terrible figures when you consider just how much exposure it has. Al Jazzera is the 105th most popular viewed channel in the UK accoring to BARB.

The CBS channels are even further down the list than Al Jazzera. The less said about TCM2 and MTV Classics the better. I don't think they even get into the top 150.

Originally Posted by muppetman11 (Post 35323866)

As bias as ever :D with the exception of PB.

Originally Posted by Chad (Post 35323890)

But the guy who started this thread stated Virgin do carry the channels he wants, so for him personally Virgin offers a better TV package when you include Catch-Up TV, TV on Demand and TiVo.

It's all down to what you want from your TV package. Virgin offer a good balance of linear channels and demand content. For me personally I feel I always have something available to me that I really want to watch on Virgin, regardless of what time of day it is. If linear TV just so happens to be poor, I've got access to thousands of hours worth of content at the touch of a button. Also now that I have TiVo, that works behind the scenes picking up shows I might like too.

Remember if it's just a TV package, you can't access SKY Anytime via SKY unless you have their broadband and phoneline too.

Originally Posted by gcampbell (Post 35323935)

Sky Atlantic, since it started has shown around 5 series I want to watch, this is more than Sky One, Sky Living and BBC1 put together - yes it shows repeats, but what channel doesn't? It's the first run shows that sell a channel and Sky Atlantic has them in spades.

Yes with On Demand there are thousands of hours of viewing at he touch of a button - all repeats and often unavailable, just look at the Fringe marathon, missing episodes right left and centre, during what marathon are runners asked to wait 24 hours before starting again? None that I've ever heard of.

Originally Posted by Tim Deegan (Post 35324069)

What on earth are you talking about?

---------- Post added at 18:18 ---------- Previous post was at 18:12 ----------



Exactly....plus the fact that I will save over £50 per month if I change from Sky to VM. And on top of that, when I have to add the sports package to watch the F1 next year, it will only cost an extra £7.

---------- Post added at 18:19 ---------- Previous post was at 18:18 ----------



I have never watched Sky Atlantic, and have probably only watched Living once.

Originally Posted by muppetman11 (Post 35324056)

What were your reasons for taking Sky TV over VM ? I will agree key channels are available on VM my reason is I'm better off moneywise and also get access to Sky 3D , Sky Go which is handy when away from home , ESPNA HD and a BB speed of 10mb which is truly unlimited unlike the VM L BB package , I personally have no need for faster although I appreciate some do.

Originally Posted by Tim Deegan (Post 35324069)

What on earth are you talking about?

---------- Post added at 18:18 ---------- Previous post was at 18:12 ----------



Exactly....plus the fact that I will save over £50 per month if I change from Sky to VM. And on top of that, when I have to add the sports package to watch the F1 next year, it will only cost an extra £7.

---------- Post added at 18:19 ---------- Previous post was at 18:18 ----------



I have never watched Sky Atlantic, and have probably only watched Living once.

Originally Posted by Jameseh (Post 35324014)

Pretty sure you don't need VM BB to get on demand unlike Sky.

Originally Posted by LexDiamond (Post 35324077)

For me it was just cheaper to have Sky.

But on a XL tv vs Entertainment Extra level, I think it is unfair to say that Sky is better because of its FTA offering. Sky themselves don't advertise any FTA channels as part of its tv offering that is paid for and they are listed separately.

It is being ignored that VM offer EPL football, pay tv HD content and instant vod in their basic sub for XL tv package, none of which is in the Entertainment Extra pack.

Originally Posted by muppetman11 (Post 35324062)

Maybe thats what differs then , some people don't like being told they can't watch a channel because its viewing figures aren't great.

Originally Posted by Tim Deegan (Post 35324080)

You didn't say BB, you just said VM network.

Originally Posted by kop32 (Post 35324079)

Why start a new post to ask advice?,it seems to me you had made your mind up anyway to go to VM purely for financial reasons,I on the other hand am willing to pay more for a mix of both Sky HD (for program choice) and VM for excellent broadband and telephone packages.

Originally Posted by Tim Deegan (Post 35324089)

If you read the thread you will see that when I started the thread I hadn't called VM. And that I asked for advice on this thread rather than get all the sales patter on the phone from VM.

My questions were answered on this thread, which is why I then phoned VM. It was only then that I found out how much I can save.

It appears from posts on this thread that most of the channels that I watch are also on VM.

So from the advice that I have received in this thread + finding out what savings I can make, it's a no brainer decision now.

Originally Posted by Jameseh (Post 35324083)

Yes but surely so long as you have cable TV your on the VM network?

Originally Posted by kop32 (Post 35324093)

Which is why I made the above comment,you want to do it for financial reasons,which is perfectly reasonable,on your other point I have read the entire thread and you never once said you had not contacted VM before you started the thread,anyway,I hope you will be happy with your choice and have found people's opinions on here helpful.

Originally Posted by LexDiamond (Post 35324082)

They're not being told though. Its their choice to be with VM and they chose to do so knowing VM's offering. People can't just have all the benefits of VM tv and then complain about what it sacrifices to provide those benefits.

Originally Posted by muppetman11 (Post 35324097)

As a VM TV customer I emailed Cindy Rose about VM carrying ESPNA in HD , credit to her she emailed me back stating it was expensive to carry and had limited appeal , so in my opinion I was being told , hence my decision to switch as I find ESPNA SD poor on some live events.

Originally Posted by kop32 (Post 35324107)

Sure your not HD Boy in disguise...:D:D:D

Originally Posted by kop32 (Post 35324107)

Sure your not HD Boy in disguise...:D:D:D

Originally Posted by muppetman11 (Post 35324109)

Yes I'm sure mine was one email not 1 million :D:D

Originally Posted by devilincarnate (Post 35324110)

The send button could have stuck:D

Originally Posted by HD Boy

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/35324089-post63.html
Good news that you are leaving the dark side :D

Originally Posted by Tim Deegan (Post 35324114)

It seems HD boy is still lurking, but temporarily suspended, as he sent me this e-mail:

I take it he doesn't like Sky?

Originally Posted by kop32 (Post 35324111)

I sense a "back on topic" warning coming................;)

Originally Posted by gcampbell (Post 35324067)

"the 43 channels ahead of Sky Atlantic are all on Virgin media"

or to put it another way, the 43 channels ahead of Sky Atlantic are available to 4 million (6 million inc freeview) more viewers than are available to Sky Atlantic.

Originally Posted by muppetman11 (Post 35324062)

Maybe thats what differs then , some people don't like being told they can't watch a channel because its viewing figures aren't great.

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35324135)

Originally Posted by muppetman11 (Post 35324097)

As a VM TV customer I emailed Cindy Rose about VM carrying ESPNA in HD , credit to her she emailed me back stating it was expensive to carry and had limited appeal , so in my opinion I was being told , hence my decision to switch as I find ESPNA SD poor on some live events.

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35324135)

Originally Posted by Chad (Post 35324136)

Very true, but still a fact based on the info supplied by BARB.

Let's look at it this way. SKY have 10,200,000 TV customers. Based on the latest BARB figures only 726,000 customers watch SKY Atlantic on a daily basis. This means only 7.12% of SKY's own customers tune in each day to the channel.

Virgin currently have 3,800,000 TV customers however it's not clear how many are actually on the M package i.e. don't receive SKY basic channels. If Virgin were to apply the same viewing % to their customer base, only 270,560 Virgin customers would potentially tune into SKY Atlantic on average.

Even with 14 million potential viewers, if the channel came to Virgin, SKY Atlantic would still fall behind other cable / satellite only channels such as:

Sky 1 - 3,586,000 - Average Daily Reach

SKY Sports News - 2,281,000 - Average Daily Reach

SKY Living - 1,738,000 - Average Daily Reach

Comedy Central - 1,495,000 - Average Daily Reach

Watch - 1,387,000 - Average Daily Reach

G.O.L.D. - 1,341,000 - Average Daily Reach

Disney Channel - 1,031,000 - Average Daily Reach

---------- Post added at 20:55 ---------- Previous post was at 20:52 ----------



The beauty of competition means they know exactly what provider they can go too, to get access to the content they want. Nobody has forced anyone to take our their current TV deal with their current provider. Everyone who posts in these forums, unless they live with parents or guardians, have made the choice to be with their current provider.

---------- Post added at 20:58 ---------- Previous post was at 20:55 ----------



I seriously didn't see this post, before I posted my above ranting.

Sorry

Originally Posted by gcampbell (Post 35324248)

It would most likely be of more use to see the annual averages of the viewing figures - Sky Atlantic's weekly figures would have been higher when Game of Thrones was on, which has been by far the channel's highest rated show.

Originally Posted by gcampbell (Post 35324248)

It would most likely be of more use to see the annual averages of the viewing figures - Sky Atlantic's weekly figures would have been higher when Game of Thrones was on, which has been by far the channel's highest rated show.

Originally Posted by muppetman11 (Post 35324250)

People get to obsessed on viewing figures , ESPNA HD is one of the most watched channels in our house and the viewing figures are appalling , there are many channels already on VM which have abysmal viewing figures. It really depends on your interests .

Originally Posted by gcampbell (Post 35324257)

Exactly, Sky go out of their way to get content to suit all tastes - would that VM were the same, they only seem to care about getting documentary channels, and the reason for this is they are cheap!

I pray for the day I can get Sky because I'm sick of being left with Virgin Media simply because they're better than nothing.

Originally Posted by Chad (Post 35324266)

Virgin go out their way to offer content to suit all tastes via their On Demand service. That's why Virgin have the best On Demand offering in the UK.

Virgin don't only care about documentary channels. Virgin offer 160 channels via the XL package. The vast majority of them aren't documentary channels. In fact Virgin have a great track record of delivering HD channels over the past 24 months.

I hope you get SKY soon, you don't seem happy.

Originally Posted by muppetman11 (Post 35324273)

Don't BT Vision and Sky do OD ?

Originally Posted by Alan Fry (Post 35324297)

virgin do the best broadband and vod, but their "liner" channels are second rate

Originally Posted by Chad (Post 35324294)

Yeah but neither offer the line-up of content in terms of Catch-Up and On Demand that Virgin do. Also Virgin is the only On Demand service provider who doesn't require you to subscribe to either an internet connection or phoneline to access their demand material. Also once the Youtube app is up and running via TiVo Virgin customers, who have TiVo, will be able to access 100,000's hours worth of content. For many it'll be the first time they've been able to watch Youtube videos through their livingroom TV, and for many non-internet users their first time using Youtube.

Originally Posted by nn012 (Post 35324281)

Apologies if this has already been posted - VM are currently offering 'Sky Switchers' TV XL with a free TiVo, a free multiroom V HD box with no monthly fee and free installation for £27.50 +£13.90 line rental. http://virginmedia.com/sky3

Originally Posted by stereohaven (Post 35324314)

That is the deal I have just taken advantage of.

I am a long time Sky subscriber and have used them for TV, Broadband and home phone, all of which have been faultless to be fair.

I have checked Virgin media prices and content on a monthly basis and have always found VM to be more expensive, probably because of a regular discount I received as Broadband user that should have lasted 6 months but I got for 2 years... :D

Anyway, having recently dropped Sports & Movies, lost my nice discount (because they realised I shouldn't get it) and wanting to have another box installed upstairs it was clear to us that VM was a better deal all round if we took the "Sky Switcher Offer".

In terms of what we watch all of the channels that are important are in the XL TV pack, although I do watch Sky Atlantic (I missed Battlestar Galactica first time round) and will miss it a little, I gain some sport through ESPN.

Sky Anytime+ is poor IMHO and I am looking forward to having some real on demand choice.

The Broadband was solid despite the Router being very cheap quality and whilst the SuperHub may not be a stunner it can be used as just a modem, which will suit me fine.

The phone line is disgustingly overpriced in my view (£2+ extra for Caller Display!), so while we have to have it, we will only use it for inbound calls.

All things considered, VM is the right deal for us at this time based on what we watch, how we watch it and what we need (equipment wise) as a package.

Sky clearly have the best "linear channels" line up, but that just isn't as important any more based on how our family consume TV.

Originally Posted by muppetman11 (Post 35324316)

Hope it all goes well for you , and welcome to the forum. :)

Originally Posted by gcampbell (Post 35324257)

Exactly, Sky go out of their way to get content to suit all tastes - would that VM were the same, they only seem to care about getting documentary channels, and the reason for this is they are cheap!

I pray for the day I can get Sky because I'm sick of being left with Virgin Media simply because they're better than nothing.

Originally Posted by muppetman11 (Post 35324273)

Don't BT Vision and Sky do OD ?

Originally Posted by muppetman11 (Post 35324309)

It wasn't that long ago on here people were telling us Catchup VOD wasn't as necessary now with the introduction of TIVO with its excellent suggestion and wishlist services. .

Originally Posted by muppetman11 (Post 35324309)

It wasn't that long ago on here people were telling us Catchup VOD wasn't as necessary now with the introduction of TIVO with its excellent suggestion and wishlist services.

Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35324349)

That's true for me.

Originally Posted by Tim Deegan (Post 35324344)

Vewing figures don't matter to the viewer at all. Unless you are talking about the viewing figures in the account holders house.

What you have to remember is that VM have to buy most of their channels from Sky. So it wouldn't be financially viable for VM to include channels with very low viewing figures. At the same time why should anyone pay Sky's high prices for loads of channels that they would never watch?

There may be some people who spend a great deal of time watching TV, and like to have the choice to watch 100's of channels. But personally I don't spend all my time in front of the TV, and I'm more bothered about quality than quantity.

---------- Post added at 16:53 ---------- Previous post was at 16:51 ----------



I don't care if they do, because their BB isn't as good as VM

Originally Posted by richard1960 (Post 35324307)

This debate is as old as the hills on forums,Skys main product is its TV serivce without which it would not have much,but VMs is its Broadband/vod.

As it is now VM have most of the watched tv channels and a good selection of HD in the TVXL pack,and also sky sports red button (on sky sports) which suits most people,plus ESPN included in XLTV, Sky and VM have two very different buisiness models to be honest i think VM do pretty well now.:)

Originally Posted by muppetman11 (Post 35324352)

Well my advice would be to give VM a try Tim if it's not to your liking you can move back after contract.

Originally Posted by stereohaven (Post 35324361)

I forgot to mention earlier that the offer I accepted to move from Sky was subject to a "no questions asked" 28 day money back guarantee.

I admit I still haven't received the contract to study the fine print but my telephone conversation with a VM representative was clear on this point (i.e. that was the case), and it also says it on the back of the marketing letter I received.

So you can test it and leave without fulfilling a contract it would seem, but I am not sure if this guarantee is a standard offer available to all.