Pride of OAP and the cruel Energy Companies
 

I find it rather sad that at this time of year, when the weather is getting cold and bitter and the snow will slowly fall on the ground, that Energy companies will increase prices.

And they forget that OAP's old this world will suffer yet again, and the government will only pay cold weather payments.

OAPs have a certain amount of pride that they would rather go without food, to supply them with heat, and some of them will go without heat to survive.

Each year, we have the same problem with OAPs not having sufficient funds available to survive. Isn't it about time, the Government of the day, tell these OAPs leave the heating on and don't worry about the cost.

Each day l visit OAPs and they tell me that they worry about paying there heating bills,l tell them to contact the companies to arrange for help or contact the local councils for help and advice, but most of them won't through there pride - not to ask for help, they can manage them self - when they know they cannot.

I think neighbours have a role here, if they know of a neighbour who needs help, then they should offer

Re: Pride of OAP and the cruel Energy Companies
 

I agree with you about looking out for elderly neighbours, but what about the Winter Fuel allowance (£200 if over 60, £300 if over 80)?

Re: Pride of OAP and the cruel Energy Companies
 

My mum and dad both get the Winter Fuel allowance and are very grateful for this help.

Re: Pride of OAP and the cruel Energy Companies
 

There's some OAP's who 'can' afford the heating who are too tight to put the heating on.
but then there's some OAP's who 'can't' afford the heating.

Re: Pride of OAP and the cruel Energy Companies
 

Why the apostrophes?

Re: Pride of OAP and the cruel Energy Companies
 

What l am saying is that OAPs should not have to go through this worry, l know that some are happy, with the help they get, But some won't accept it.

We as a country should look after these people in such a manner, that they needn't worry about bills.

In this day and age, when energy companies are making an absolute fortune, we are all suffering by the sky high bills, but OAPs will suffer more than most.

Re: Pride of OAP and the cruel Energy Companies
 

I ran out of bold.

Re: Pride of OAP and the cruel Energy Companies
 

Use Ariel or Persil instead, then.....

Re: Pride of OAP and the cruel Energy Companies
 

...and I bet both of these sorts of OAPs use the financial help they DO get on Christmas presents for the grand kids instead of heating their home.

Re: Pride of OAP and the cruel Energy Companies
 

more fool them ,the help is there ,they have most likely paid into the system for most of their working life ,they are entitled to the help that is there and should take it

Re: Pride of OAP and the cruel Energy Companies
 

Link?

Re: Pride of OAP and the cruel Energy Companies
 

Not just OAP's. I bet there is a lot of people on Benefits who are also struggling with paying the heating bills as well.

Re: Pride of OAP and the cruel Energy Companies
 

I am for the winter fuel allowance for those in need,but it also seems to go to those not in need, my manager at work and his wife before he retired used to get it and he earnt a good wage,as well as trousering the winter fuel allowance.:(

Re: Pride of OAP and the cruel Energy Companies
 

Very true which is why I am grateful for my cold weather payments when I get them. Which go in a pot for when I actually get the bill.

Re: Pride of OAP and the cruel Energy Companies
 

not just OAP's and people on benefits ,i bet there are people who are working and struggling to pay heating bills

Re: Pride of OAP and the cruel Energy Companies
 

I made a point earlier about my ex manager who was over 60 bt still working and earning a good wage getting the winter fuel allowance he clearly did not need it but got it,and those working people who earn say minimum wage who struggle and are not entitled to the winter fuel allowance ,seems there is an inbuilt inequality in the system.

Re: Pride of OAP and the cruel Energy Companies
 

most definitely .It seems to be a trademark with the whole benefits system ,money going to people who don't realy need it and not to those who do

Re: Pride of OAP and the cruel Energy Companies
 

You are spot on with that opinion.

Re: Pride of OAP and the cruel Energy Companies
 

I know it's expensive but maybe it's time to start means testing more benefits

Re: Pride of OAP and the cruel Energy Companies
 

l am all for means testing but we have to be very careful that the people who need help from the system get the right help and the people who fiddle the system do not get help and get found out.

Re: Pride of OAP and the cruel Energy Companies
 

OAP's, certain benefit claimants and people on low wages all of us will struggle this winter as we struggled last winter but we adapt couple of years ago there was a sale on at B&M on quilts we bought two one for me one for the wife. Might look like a couple of planks sat on the couch wrapped up but beats the hell out of being cold which doesn't help my condition and it is an option everyone has.

Re: Pride of OAP and the cruel Energy Companies
 

We might all complain about energy bills and costs of heating, but let's remember that it is only 20 or so years that central heating systems have become commonplace. Before then many would accept they should be adding extra layers of clothing.

There are also special tariff available to the elderly that mean they can totally fix their energy budget and not have to worry about use at all. These are typically based around the size and type of the property. They aren't widely publicised because they don't encourage energy efficiency from those who use them. For example if I go round to my 80 year old mother's house (she has been using this tarrff for a number of years) I need to strip down to my T shirt it's so warm.

Re: Pride of OAP and the cruel Energy Companies
 

Putting on mountains of clothing or duvets does not ensure heat retention for everybody.

When I was on blood pressure medication I couldn't keep warm no matter what I did as with a BP of 100\60 and a pulse of 60 there was the usual complaint of peripheral coldness which crept through the body.

Even now when off BP medications and with a natural BP of 120\70 and pulse in the mid 60's I feel the cold due to the loss of body fat via dieting. I hate the cold with a passion but to be a moderately healthy pensioner male means a BMI of a racing whippet and no end of clothing compensates for cold ambient temperatures.

I see somebody in the thread pointed out an example of someone getting the heat allowance whilst in employment. Life isn't fair and never will be. I have always paid tax and probably will do until the day I die. The adjustments under Brown and Darling hit me at least equal to the heating allowance and under Osborne the rates for 65 plus people was not adjusted in keeping with younger people.

The net result is that one way or another the government claws back, via other methods, the amount it gives out with apparent largesse. There is no need for means testing when the Tax coding methodology does it all in an underhand way. Of course heating allowance is not taxable but other changes get it back from those who arguably through the fact that they are tax payers do not need it. Those who do not pay tax do not have it clawed back and nor should they because they need it on a meagre income.

Yesterday an older relative called and again I heard the comment "eat or heat" which is apparently a stark reality for a lot of people with Winter approaching. If the measure of a society is how it treats the old, sick and weak I wonder how many will die this Winter through hypothermia.

---------- Post added at 13:17 ---------- Previous post was at 13:03 ----------

I would disagree with the 20years time line. I bought my current house 30 years ago and nobody would even look at a house without central heating back then or if they did would knock the price down to cover installation costs. It actually started to become commonplace 40 years ago when I bought my first house and I installed it as a priority during refurbishment.

There is a correlation between longevity and the environment that we make for ourselves. Heating is a major factor in longer life as it removes stresses of yesteryear from the equation. Remove that factor and the stress diseases of old will return and cull the older generation.

Your mother doesn't keep her environment so warm just because she can, it is because she needs to because she does not have the metabolism of a 40 something. I feel sure you are grateful that she can enjoy comfort commensurate with her needs;)

Re: Pride of OAP and the cruel Energy Companies
 

So how does this reconcile, Arthur, with http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/20...-downsize.html

My sympathy, while it is there, is fairly minimal for that >50% who might complain about the costs of heating rooms they don't or barely use.

I've far more sympathy for the working poor who don't get a non-means tested allowance to help them heat their homes and may be forced to borrow money to try and make ends meet or tell their kids to put more clothing on to be quite honest. That comes from my own memory of being told to do just that as a child.

Re: Pride of OAP and the cruel Energy Companies
 

Traduk no offence m8 but i don't know anyone that doesn't feel warm wrapped up in a quilt and i have fluctuating BP and heart rate due to the amount of meds i am on but five mins in a 14 tog quilt usually ensures i am warm if not hot. Look i am not saying it's ideal but no one has a reason to be freezing these days and having central heating on all the time whilst nice is a luxury that only the last couple\three generations have had available to them how did people manage before that.

Money is tight all over it isn't just energy bills it is the increasing cost of food and all things we have to buy to live there just isn't the money to have it all as we want so we have to make cuts and adaptations where we can.

Re: Pride of OAP and the cruel Energy Companies
 

Yes Money is tight at the moment, I can only afford to run the one Bugatti Veron and have had to sell one of the yachts leaving me with just the one 300 footer ;)

Re: Pride of OAP and the cruel Energy Companies
 

If I recall correctly the life expectancy of a male of a couple of generations back was about 62 years old. If you go back any further generations then it enters the domain of medical ignorance, poverty, poor nutrition and environment plus diseases like Polio and Tuberculosis. To give an actuarial taken from 1962 when I had to make pension decisions and particularly regarding "Widows and Orphans" the drawing time for a male pensioner in the company scheme I was entering (civil service terms) was 2 weeks with a retirement age of 60. Of course that was an average with a heck of a lot of minus numbers that never drew a penny. Only 50 years back the world was a different place and one that was far from pleasant.

When I was 2.5 stone heavier a 14 Tog duvet was too much for me and I cooked. Now it barely does the job. If I was unique it would be purely down to my unique characteristics but peers of about the same age have laughingly stated or more aptly their wives that they also wear thermal socks when it is cold;). It is possibly unique to BP meds and Statins but cold extremities is a side effect of both.

We are all different but I think that it is important for people to realise that one person's discomfort with just feeling cold can easily be another person's pain. Statins affect muscles, joints and tendons in some people (I am one) and if suffering pain is the result of cold, my experience is somewhat different to a younger person who may remark that they feel cold. If they felt as though they had been whacked across both upper arms with a lump of 4X2 they might get close to what I feel from cold.

It is not personal but a general truism of human nature. We all tend to make judgements based on personal experiences and rarely bother to think or even ask what others may experience because we take it for granted that we are all the same. When I used to visit my parents or father in law in their later lives, entering their homes felt like entering a sauna without steam. With the passing of time, I now know why.

I firmly believe that heat is an essential requirement for older age longevity and lack of affordability will cause major health problems and possibly reverse decades of good.

Other than the fact that my doctor likes my cholesterol levels less than I do (or he did until they went down to current silly low levels) I am generally and fortunately very healthy but whether its Statins or being at my 30 year old weight which reduces cold tolerance I am generally very healthy even though this lot reads like Victor Meldrew on crutches.

Re: Pride of OAP and the cruel Energy Companies
 

So no luxury £2 million yacht then.:)

Re: Pride of OAP and the cruel Energy Companies
 

he sold it to me so he could boil a kettle for a nice cup of tea :D

Re: Pride of OAP and the cruel Energy Companies
 

Make sure you don't get lost then as its easy to sail the wrong way.:)

Re: Pride of OAP and the cruel Energy Companies
 

OAPs are ok they get help at least, working age vulnerable dont get anything tho other than whatever normal income they have.

I used to grin and bear, it, wear 2 jumpers, coat etc. But whilst that may reduce the feeling of been cold and make things bearable its done no good to my health, I now have serious blood circulation issues which escalate every winter, I been more or less told to use the heating much more unless I want serious consequences.

Re: Pride of OAP and the cruel Energy Companies
 

Some working age vulnerable adults get cold weather payments.

Re: Pride of OAP and the cruel Energy Companies
 

Yes i got some cold weather payments last year and they were very helpful and greatly appreciated but they can be sporadic at best no one can rely on them to help them with the costs.

Re: Pride of OAP and the cruel Energy Companies
 

Indeed but the statment from Chrysalis.

"working age vulnerable dont get anything tho" isn't accurate which is why I posted about it.

Re: Pride of OAP and the cruel Energy Companies
 

who does then?

seems some confusion has arisen.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/moneytax...nt/dg_10018668

There is cold weather payments and winter fuel payments. 2 seperate ones.

cold weather payments people on income support can claim it as well as state pensioners but is dependent on the actual weather.

The obvious problem with that is people who dont get income based benefits do not qualify, the way the system works its entirely possible and does happen that people on income support have a higher income than those not on income based benefits. eg. if someone qualifies for both income based JSA and contribution based, regardless of savings etc. they will go on contribution based which pays the same as income base (base rate). The former gets more help tho even tho they on the same income. What would be a better idea is like HC2 certificates where people claim and their qualification is calculated on their income levels, what benefits they may be on and if they work is all irellevant. Is going off topic a bit but is a reason why I dont like where income support is used as a way to qualify someone, because its a unfair method of means testing. This sort of situation can go on for years, if someone is on long term IB but via NI contributions (they have work history) then they will always be on it for their duration as IB also pays NI contributions for them to keep it going, whilst if someone is on IB without a work history they will be on income based version and it effectively counts as income support, they would then qualify for this extra help even tho they on exactly the same level of benefit/income.

Now the winter fuel payments which is what I believe was the original benefit been discussed is the following.

Its a garuantueed amount regardless of weather and not means tested.

It sums up the problem with our welfare system, the boundaries of qualifying for something is a straight line, you either get it or you dont, those just below the line will be better off than those just above the line.

Re: Pride of OAP and the cruel Energy Companies
 

You can read up about it here.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/moneytax...nt/dg_10018668

True not all working age vulnarable adults get it but a fair few do.

---------- Post added at 15:44 ---------- Previous post was at 15:37 ----------

No confusion no. Some working age adults get help.

Re: Pride of OAP and the cruel Energy Companies
 

Is confusion as before this topic started I wasnt even aware of cold weather payments as a seperate benefit, I was always reffering to the winter fuel allowance, and since others here also were saying pensioners only its obvious they were as well. I only looked into it after yours and rizzys comments.

The cold weather payments are most defenitly not fair tho, eg. they also have a disability premium as a qualifying measure, obviously disability premium is a topup to benefits. It should really be based on income levels and nothing else and done the same way as HC2 certs are.

Re: Pride of OAP and the cruel Energy Companies
 

I didn't say it was fair ;)

And although you may have been confused I certainly wasn't, only replying to your post so you could keep informed.

Anyway I'm glad it's all cleared up now :tu:

Re: Pride of OAP and the cruel Energy Companies
 

indeed